All this talk of 375's is putting me in the mood for another medium bore (despite the title of this forum, the 375 is a medium bore; only above 40's qualify as large bores but I digress )

I've got dies, I've got brass and I've got an itch but here's the thing: no stores in my area have 375 H&H's, save one. That particular store has only a Remington Model 700 XCR with a synthetic stock and already coated by Remington in diamond dust impregnated super-polymer for $799, new.

Dare I cross to the dark side? Can I live without a claw extractor? Will my CZ's, Winchester's, Mauser's and BRNO's desert me en mass if I bring this push-feeder home?

Seriously though, has anyone had a Rem 700 in 375 H&H? If so, how did you like it? How does the factory recoil lug hold up? Any feeding issues? General observations? Thanks.

I�ve got two 375 H&H Magnums at the moment, these are a SAKO 85 Bavarian and a Remington 700 XCR.

In terms of the Remington 700 XCR, it�s taken plenty of game and is very comfortable to shoot. Most important, it works flawlessly and is inherently accurate. I�ve got this model also in a .338WM.

The Remington XCR�s durability is amazing - I�ve found them to be very reliable.

Stay away from the 700 Safari of old. Very fine gun, but too damn heavy!

Noone else has a Rem 700 in 375 H&H?

Geez, guess I better get 375 Ruger!

had a C grade custom in 375HH, an old one, heavy barrel rifle, very accurate with 270gr TSX's and real plaeasent to shoot. No issues other than the weight.

I am one of the anal control feed freaks, you could not give me a DG rifle without the control feed option..I have seen push feed failures 20 to 1 in our camps over the years.

I am not anal about what somebody else uses..I really don't care, it's all I can do to take care of myself.....

Dock the barrel to 22" and it becomes much nicer! I owned both the old heavy Safari plus the Safari Classic (about 7 1/2 lb) and both were very accurate and never ever gave a feeding issue ... as a matter of fact they were both more reliable than my CRF rifles at the time. Many Remington's will function better off the shelf than cheaper CRF style rifles ... but the long tapered cases of the 375H&H just makes everything feed/cycle smooth in a Rem700.
Cheers...
Con

I have no use for Remingtons for play guns, let alone working guns. Their failings are well known, or ought to be.

Put this in perspective: some of my favorite weapons are Sako pushfeed rifles. So it's not even about that. Remingtons are simply junk.

I have a Rem. Classic in .375 H&H, and my buddy has a Rem. XCR in the same caliber. I had mine restocked by Randy Lawson, and have taken it on two African safaris, the first to Tanzania and the second to South Africa.

I've got a .375 h&h in 700stainless synthetic bdl configuration, I've been using it as my main North american gun for the last 10 yrs or so, with nary a hiccup, it still shoots around an inch or less for 5 shots. I have never had a feed jam, bedding issue etc.. It is bone stock, not even glass bedded. I think it probably has atleast 1000 shots thru it by me, and I'm not sure how many from the guy before me.
It's killed moose,deer, bear,caribou,coyotes,coons and cats for me with zero problems.
It nice and light- the gun itself weighs just around 7lb, so nice and easy to carry.

recoil is brisk from the bench, but hunting or using sticks or field positions not an issue whatsoever. Last moose I shot with it was @419yrds from prone position with no scopebrow, and a very dead moose about 20 seconds after the shot.

In my opinion Go for it- they work!

moved to new thread

It is the Vastava M98 action that has been imported under a bunch of different names (most previously by Chs Daly.) It is rough to start with, but some judicious polishing and use goes a long way toward smoothing it up. I just built a rifle using one, and went to a lot of trouble polishing it up pre-bluing. It is a quite smooth action now.

So as it comes from Rem it is probably pretty rough, but that does not have to remain the case.

RyanScott,

Would really appreciate hearing some specifics backing up your opinion on 700's. We get more than enough postings on the Campfire that are opinions without specifics. Some experiences would be great.

JB...your freind and mine Dan M. has taken a couple elk, and 21 PG African critters, and a Buffalo with his Remington 700 Classic in .375...
I was there for about half of them...
Didn't seem junky to me...so theres my vote...

Ingwe

Well John since you asked... I don't care for the flimsy extractor that is prone to breakage particularly if dust & debris is allowed to accumulate behind it. I saw that one in Pennsylvania to a friend of mine. Don't like the brazed bolt handle (saw one of those come off at our local range here in Florida). Do a "google" search for the infamous fail-on-fire safety and see how many law suits are out there. I don't like the fact the safety doesn't lock the bolt. Finally I read a very good report in African hunter Magazine about 700s poor performance at the PH exams at Rifa. They are not junk by a long shot, but they aren't my favorite either. jorge

Jorge hit in on the head. Most who hunt for big and bitey stuff will go with a CRF action a la model 70, Mauser etc. A model 700 would not be my first choice for a 375 by a long shot. Not junk, great varmint and target rifles just not the best choice for a DGR IMHO.

Thanks, Jorge, but I was asking RyanScott.

The reason was was asking was that I have put tens of 1000's of rounds through M700's without seeing any of the problems you describe. That doesn't mean they can't happen, of course, but have also watched other people put a similar number of rounds through them, and only seen one problem, a possible (and I emphasize possible) accidental discharge, though it happened when the shooter (not all that experienced) was already set up to shoot at a caribou.

I haven't ever seen a 700 extractor break--though I know they do. Have never seen a bolt handle come off either, even though I've tapped on more than a few to get the bolt open, after I screwed up and loaded a round too hot. Again, I know the bolt handles can come off, but have never seen it myself in some tens of thousands of rounds shot through 700's.

This makes me suspect that the "epidemic" of 700 failures is due to both faulty maintenance OR the vast number of 700's in service.

In the same period, I've had a few failures with CRF actions of various types. So am still waiting to be convinced.

Well put John, can't argue with that! I forgot to add another aspect and that is one of "taste". I think 700s just look cheap and you factor in the fact that the 700 IS a cheaper action to build, why bother when a Model 70, Browning Safari Grade, Ruger RSM, can do a better job. Like you, I don't believe for one moment there is an epidemic, but why bother with a "cheaper cut"? As to the accuracy issue, the other rifles are just as good. jorge

I have a 35 year old Rem 700 BDL in 270 that has over 3000 rounds through it. It's got it's orignial Redfield 3x9 scope on it. It's accounted for thirty deer or so, more javelina than that a dozen elk and 7 black bears (nuisance tags). We used to shoot crows at 300 yards with it. It still will shoot inside a dime at 100 yards if I do my part. Never had a malfunction of any kind. Shoots 90g Sierra HPs, 130, and 150 Noslers equally well. Handed it down to my younger son last year, the older one who's in the Rangers got the identical rifle in left hand several years earlier. Nothing bad to say about the guns, accurate and reliable as hell.

That being said, I bought a CZ Safari Custom for a DGR rifle in 500 Jeffrey. Dad had to have a bigger gun ... lol



Chuck

I have a 35 year old Rem 700 BDL in 270 that has over 3000 rounds through it. It's got it's orignial Redfield 3x9 scope on it. It's accounted for thirty deer or so, more javelina than that a dozen elk and 7 black bears (nuisance tags). We used to shoot crows at 300 yards with it. It still will shoot inside a dime at 100 yards if I do my part. Never had a malfunction of any kind. Shoots 90g Sierra HPs, 130, and 150 Noslers equally well. Handed it down to my younger son last year, the older one who's in the Rangers got the identical rifle in left hand several years earlier. Nothing bad to say about the guns, accurate and reliable as hell.

That being said, I bought a CZ Safari Custom for a DGR rifle in 500 Jeffrey. Dad had to have a bigger gun ... lol



Chuck

I have.. I get 3-4 in per year to install new extractors.. Not to mention the extractors that need replacing on the various semi-autos that Rem. produces.. And yes, it has more to do with a properly cleaned chamber than anything else, but they still break..

Of the PF model 70s, I get one in maybe every 5 years with an extractor issue.. Of the CRF models I have never seen a broken one, but I have had some in with improper tension or, to repair/replace after some bubba decided to 'improve' it..

Forgot to mention: About a month ago, a good customer brought in a brand-new CZ bolt action in .458 Lott.. He'd bought about six boxes of very expensive ammo to test the action with before his hunt in Africa.. Most wouldn't feed - the nose of the bullet would jam up on the edge of the chamber.. Not much I could do - he was leaving the next day or so.. But IMHO, it's the design of the breech that was the main issue.. Nice thing about model 70s is the coned breech that sure makes for good feeding. The CZ has a flat breech, with a small, 90 degree 'step' before the chamber. I don't know why they do that and not install a coned breech.. All they're asking for is feeding problems..

I'm not saying that most of them don't work fine. For me, something is all or none. Since Remington isn't the best for anything I do, I have no use for them.

Operator level issues:
Short, checkered bolt knob.
Inconveniently placed bolt release.
Potentially faulty trigger: I've had SWAT snipers tell me their SOP is to leave the bolt open and not use the safety. Others say it's fine.

Armorer level issues:
Soft steel. It's just a tube with holes cut in it.
Some people claim they aren't stiff enough but I'm not qualified to judge that.
Separate recoil lug, requires pinning etc.
Screw holes often misaligned, and undersized.

Design issues:
I like Sako extractors, unless I can do one better and use a Mauser claw.
Anecdotal evidence of dirt and ice affecting ejector function.
The bolt is sweated together.


I've been up for way too long today to remember everything. Basically I am strongly biased to Sako and Mauser rifles. I do have a Remington clone, a Surgeon, which corrects most of the flaws I listed but retains the ejector and extractor from a Remington.

Ryan,

Thanks very much for the specifics. I don't necessarily agree with some of them, but you have some valid points.

Valid points indeed..

I guess I'm getting a little tired of the Remington bashing. Until some of the custom barrel makers started making bench rest actions in the late 70s, the Remington 700 action was it. The most accurate stiffest action with the fastest lock time, period. Someone once said only accurate rifles are interesting, if that's so then the Remington 700 was enthralling for decades. I hear lots of Ruger advocates but have yet to see one that would shoot with a Rem 700. Show me how many benchrest or long distance competitive shooters use them. The Remington 40x triggers are great, it takes an artist to tune a 700 trigger, Norm Thompson was one, mine are set at 2 1/4 lbs, sadly he passed away. If they didn't work the U.S. snipers wouldn't use them. They worked in Vietnam, they've worked in the MidEast and probably lots of other places I don't know about.

I see a lot of Ruger fans, and that's great, but I've never seen one that shoots as well as a Rem 700, period. Every Ruger I've owned (M77, Ruger No.1, Ruger P90) I've sold. I've kept every other gun I've ever bought, that includes Winchester, Marlin, Browning, Springfield, Remington and CZ.

As far as a DGR rifle, I understand there are issues with the action (including extractors) for rapid fire second, and third shots. I don't think the Rem 700 was ever made with that in mind, maybe it should have been. It was first and foremost an American hunting rifle that was cheaper to make than a Mauser action, but in no way suffered in accuracy. I have many thousands of rounds through mine, never had an issue either hunting, varmint shooting or at the range.


That being said I bought a CZ 550 for a dangerous game rifle, to a great extent based on Ganyana's article on the PH test results. It's a very nice rifle. It's accurate, strong, and after some significant work by the CZ Custom Shop, the action is smooth and it feeds flawlessy.

Regards,

Chuck

But it does seem to balance well ....

That's funny, cuz pretty much all I've ever used for bolt guns have been Remington 700s in cartridges from .222 and .223 up to 375 H&H and 375 Chatfield-Taylor.

This "simply junk" you refer to has never FTF or extract or failed me in any other way. Try again.


.

It will work fine just like any other 700. No feeding/extraction issues or recoil lug problems.


.

One of the great ones. I worked with Norm for over 4 years and miss him every day. He Smithed for over 50 years and his favorite action was the 700. Tells you something.

The 700 has it's downfalls like any design but it really only shows them when it is neglected or in extreme conditions. That said, the 375 WBY I'm building will be on a left hand model 70 action. I can't bring myself to build a 375 on the 700.

Chuck: you pretty well answered your own questions. Things like "lock time" and benchrest accuracy (all virtues of the 700 to be sure) don't mean squat when hunting. You are correct the 700 makes for a superb benchrest rifle. Your Vietnam comment is true today. Most military sniper rifles are built on 700 actions (highly modified). Your statement of the 700 being a "cheaper" action than a 98 or one of it's clones (like a Model 70) is also spot on. The 40X trigger is a relatively new addition and why? because the previous trigger/safety was UNSAFE. Lastly if "bashing" is synonymous with stating facts, well I guess I'm guilty of that. jorge

Look for the 700 to end it's military service life soon. For one thing, it's amusing that people will demand a different action for hunting dangerous game but will hunt the most dangerous game of all with a 700. The 700 became issue in Vietnam more because Winchester wouldn't sell to the USMC on their terms than for any other reason.

A model 70 is 250% stiffer than a 700.

And yes, Rugers aren't impressive.

Chuck, I don't think much was mentioned about the 700 being inaccurate, but that's a function of the barrel for the most part while the posts above were specifically regarding the action. I have 3-4 700s and they're fine - I just prefer a M70 for other reasons... and I think that was more or less the aim of RyanScott's post..

...which says a bunch..

Best to you..

I am also a fan of the M70 and other good CRF actions, in particular the 98 Mauser, which is better in some ways than the M70. All of my dedicated dangerous-game rifles are CRF or one sort or another, and tuned to function perfectly.

But I do get a little weary of the claims that Remington 700's are junk or unreliable. Part of the "problem" is that so many have been built (over 5 million now I believe) that naturally gunsmiths will see more extractors break than on other rifles that haven't been produced in such numbers.

...which says a bunch..


[/quote]
If you did "significant work" to a 700 by the Remington Custom Shop I bet the end result would be OK as well.

I was taught by Pete Jackson a Remington gunsmith back in the 70's.

I worked in a Remington authorized warranty center and replaced extractors on the 742 but never on a 700. I have never seen a bolt handle come off other than a 788 which was abused.

I prefer the looks of a FN Belgian Mauser 98 Browning Safari but when push came to shove I bought a Remington Classic in 35 Whelen which is my favorite rifle and recently bought my son a 375 H&H Magnum Remington 700 SPSDG. We want to give the bears a GOOD SPANKING!

There is nothing wrong with high temp silver solder.

I have silver soldered rifle sights on many Browning A-5 12 gauge shotguns and never had any come loose.

I say buy whatever floats your boat but it disgusts me to have people badmouth an American made product!
whelennut

I'm sorry but please explain how shooting an enemy with a sniper rifle at several hundred yards and completely undetected compares with shooting dangerous game, posibbly charging at less than 20 yards or closer have in common? I'll make it easier for you: NOTHING. That is the most specious argument one hears when explaining the 700s many maladies as a DANGEROUS GAME HUNTING RIFLE. Hey if you like the 700s good for you but the many facts posed here delineating it's numerous faults ae just that facts. You sure it's not 275%? besides who cares. jeez. jorge

It is also the biggest recoil lug in the business and has more stock material behind it than any other action. Check the M98, tiny recoil lug and very little stock material behind the lug.

The pinning is only an issue on swicth barrel guns.

I don't know that the stiffness of the 700 matters. Some seem to care and go to great lengths to find something stiffer, or to sleeve a 700, others are happy with the 700 as issued. I am pointing out that it is hardly right to call the 700 a stiff action.

I think you miss the point about sniping rifles. The same people that tell you they need a CRF rifle to hunt buffalo will sometimes tell you a 700 is fine for hunting men. Why a rifle isn't either reliable enough or not reliable enough for both in the minds of some people is worth commenting on.

You'll note in fact that almost my entire post was about perceptions, rather than facts. You might want to re-read it carefully.

Most if not all full-auto rifles used by the military around the world are push-feed.

Interesting to hear your post was about perceptions. It sounded pretty much absolutely positive.

Having actually built (not talked about) a big Magnum on a 700 3.6" action in 400 H&H, I can tell you it works fine with the stock extractor as it is a low pressure well thought out cartridge. Were I to build another, it would be on a CZ controlled feed action....something about over 100 years of faultless performance.

Paul Mauser also designed PF actions which worked very well.

I have a number of rifles chambered for what might be consiered "dangerous game" cartridges from .338 on up. A couple are on PF actions, most are CRF on 98's, M70's and CZ's. And yes, all have been tested in the field.

The one thing they all have in common is they feed and eject the cartridge in question perfectly, every time.

In my experience the most reliable is

1) Vertical stack push feed.

2) Push feed like the SMLE where the magazine completely controls everything.

CRF is very sensitive to case rim condition and case rim and extractor groove dimensions.

The most severe conditions I have been in for a test is chasing roos and pigs across paddocks and ditto for spotlighting. Have still never seen a bolt action that could match the 303 SMLE. I have used M98 and M17 under same conditions and no contest, SMLE in a cake walk.

Back in the late 1960s in Australia lots of M17 30/06s were rebarreled to 270. Whatuse to stuff them was the different 270 ammo, Euro such as Hirtenberg and Winchester. Either the extractor was too tight for one and too loose for the other which resulted in a waste of time.

I doubt if a CRF would work to well as an auto or semi auto because the bolt closes too quickly and a CRF has to get the case rim to slide at an angle under the extractor.

There is no doubt that a CRF action is much more case-sensitive.

After a friend told me about his experiments a few years ago, I once put a .257 Roberts round, a .30-40 Krag, and a .300 RUM round in the magazine of a Remington 700 that was chambered for the .30-06. All fed perfectly. (They also fed perfectly with the action held upside-down.)

On the other hand, I once bought a Mexican 98 Mauser rifle chambered for the 7x57--and it would not feed 7x57's. (Of course it did perfectly after I did some work on it, but still....)

Off the top of my head I can't think of any that aren't, but I would take even M16 extraction and ejection over Remington.

Some things in my post were positive. The military is gravitating quickly away from the 700. The MSR is not a 700, some units use AI AWMs, etc. Mostly I am critical of the mindset by which someone says that a 700 is reliable enough for war but not buffalo shooting. It's reliable enough for both, or neither, at least to my mind.

Let's see the military is migrating away from the 700s quickly, it's only been in service 40 years ... Snipers crawl through mud, sewers, sand. Their rifles have to work.

Chuck

I think marines are taught to clean the chambers.
Hunters not so much.
whelennut

Yeah, I know two basic kinds of hunters: Those who over-clean their rifles, and those who think running a patch of Hoppe's #9 through the bore after each hunting season is "cleaning."

However, I have known both types to ignore the chamber, and many never lube the locking lugs.

Oregon,

Geez...every time someone posts about a M700 in an "African" cartridge, the M700/Push Feed/Dangerous Game handwringing begins! Did the OP even mention what he was going to hunt with it? After shooting various M700's for 30 years, and a round count well into 5 digits, I've had exactly one "failure". That being an extractor that finally wore out on a M721 that's had who knows how many rounds through it. I think most M700 "failures" can be attributed to inattentive owners.

Back to the OP. Yes, I've owned a M700 .375 H&H. A Safari KS. It was a fine rifle. Accurate and reliable. It was my attempt to go stainless/synthetic, but I just can't warm up to them, and sold it. I'd have hunted anything with it.

What do you plan to hunt for?

Jeff

Remington has had far greater success than Winchester at selling bolt actions high power rifles.

Almost all gunwriters worship at the Model 70 alter.

Wonder how all these "extractor failure" stories got started?

When are we gonna start hearing about Savage extractor failures as their sales are also killing the so called current model 70?

Do you really think Remington would be stupid enough to make 700s in 375 H&H and 416 Remington if the extractors were failing in the field and PHs got to watch their clients stomped, gored, bitten and otherwise damaged?

How do I say BS in a nice way? You bring on anything you want. I'll whack em' with my 700 400 H&H with 400 Woodleighs, my hoard of 400 Barnes Xs or Barnes banded solids.

JB,

I was under the impression that a chamber should never be lubed with more than is left after putting a little CLP or other suitable product on a chamber brush and then trying to wipe it all back out with dry patch on a mop. If you are going to shoot it soon that is, and not just store it. I was told excessive lube was worse than too little in the chamber because it could interfer with the brass case making a good gas seal. After having the negative experience of a fine mist of oil spray all over my face with the first shot of my issue M16-A1 after a drill sargeant poured a big dollop of CLP on all the pulled bolts of my platoon's rifles at basic markmanship training at FT Sill I have kept my rifles pretty dry. Maybe too dry. What do you use, product wise and how do you apply it to your bolt action chambers up there in MT?

Scott

Methinks the slow M70 sales are mostly due to the 'new' MOA trigger than anything else..

True M70 fans (and I'm one) do not like it..

I think the M70's are selling slow because few people want to spend $800 on a wood stocked rifle when the wood has no figure and the bluing looks like a Browning A-bolt.

Thanks for all the replies guys; as for why I am interested in this rifle, well, its about $600 cheaper than what it would cost to put together a weather resistant 375 H&H on any other platform.

Truth be told, I like the 9.3x62 better, and my 375, when I get one, will get treated like my 30-06's: buy them, shoot them, put them away sighted in for factory ammo that way when I have a hunt that pops up unexpectedly I can just dust off the rifle and head out the door. No loading, no fiddling.

As for the the PF/CRF debate, it's always fun to read these threads and the responses were in line with any of the hundreds of threads on the subject that came up in the search I ran before posting this question here.

Personally, my favorite PF actions are Howa/Weatherby Vanguards; but I do need to own a Remington 700, the only Remington rifle I have now is a Model 30

Phasmid,

Luckily in Montana we don't have much of a problem with rust. Normally I just wipe out the chamber with a cotton patch or two around a .410 or 28-gauge bore brushm, right after I clean the bore. Then I oil the chamber with a light, non-Teflon oil, then wipe the oil out again with a cotton patch. (At the same time I wipe out the bolt face with a Q-Tip, to get out any gunk and brass particles--which may be why I have never had the extractor break on a 700 action.)

But I also hunt some other places where moisture is a problem, including now and then some place near an ocean. Then I dry, clean and oil/wipe the chamber more often, how often depending on the weather. This also applies to the outside of the bolt and the inside of the action.

Oregon45,
No matter what type you end up with, if you plan on hunting out of state or dangerous game it would be prudent to shoot about 100 rds. out of it to make sure it feeds, extracts, ejects, etc.
Even CRF rifles can have problems with extractor tension, rough feed ramps, bolt face rough, etc. Nothing made by man is perfect 100% of the time. (The reason for new car warranty.)
whelennut

I agree, and I usually do take a day and shoot 100-150 full power rounds through a new rifle just to make sure. Although I'll admit that I truncated that test to a mere 35 rounds the day I bought my 7lb 458 Win Mag!

Can't say as I blame you!

700s are neither junk or unreliable, if they were, they wouldn't sell as well as they have, but I don't think one can dispute they are cheaper to build than a 98 type action. If they were as reliable as 98 AND cheaper to boot, they would be the overwhelming choice of Professional Hunters. You'd be hard pressed to find many doing DG duty in Africa.

Brazed bolt handles, flimsy extractors and fail on fire safeties that don't even lock the bolt, all issues I find unacceptable in any rifle, let alone one used for dangerous game. Regarding the military use of PFs I find nothing in common with wartime applications and dangerous game hunting. I hunt mostly with PFs anyway, jut not Remingtons. Stiff actions, lock times are I suppose great attributes for target shooting but have little do with with hunting. My Model 70s, Weatherbys and Browning Safaris are accurate enough and in my view much better weapons for my use anyway. jorge

A fair statement relative to the M98, and in fact I bought a CZ 500 for a DGR rifle. I do have to say, and I'm sure it's a function of CZ's quality control, it took more work to make it feed than my M700 which all fed flawlessly out of the box. As far as the safety's, I've slid down 30 or 40 feet of slope in the black timber chasing elk more than once with a round in the chamber and the safety on, always maintaining muzzle control and never had an issue, doesn't mean there isn't one. My newest M700 is 25 years old, so I'm not sure if they had brazed rather than welded on bolt handles, but if so that's kind of appalling considering the minimal difference in cost on an assembly line. I shoot 150g Noslers at even 3000 fps out of my 22" M700 BDL, no signs of pressure (I have shot loads that have showed signs), using Rem cases, Norma MRP and Rem 9 1/2 M primers. It's been my standard deer, elk and bear load since the Mid 70s. Even hot loads (when I was younger doing load development and wasn't quite as careful) always extracted, but would show extraction marks on the case head.

Anyway highly respect your opinions, differences make the world interesting,

Regards,

Chuck

Their $660 here ... only $100 more than a hawkeye ... not too shabby.

Why? Just curious .. the few I've handled seem to be nice rifles ... Just b/c it different? Or is there a significant worry in regards to safety and/or operation?

Should have also asked ... can one put the older trigger system into the New M70's?

Nope.. no-can-do...

This has been hashed over on the hunting rifles forum for months.. Many like the new trigger. It is a bit crisper.. However, it is an enclosed unit.. What happens after a few hunts in either inclement weather, dusty/dirty conditions and/or after an owner has liberally sprayed it with WD-40... I think they're going to fail, period... And when they do, it's going to be a trip back to the factory for repair.. Those things are restricted parts.. And you might wait 3 months to get it back..

The old-style trigger, for all it's alleged negatives (heavy, creepy ) rarely failed to work - ever.. They didn't break, they didn't fail, they're easily cleaned and as simple as ABC... With a trigger job done by a competent smith, those triggers are SWEET, and have done the job for over six decades.. .. To those that say it shouldn't require a trigger job to be that good, yeah - so what?? Nearly every other factory rifle comes out of the plant with lawyer triggers that can use adjustment, stoning, etc., to be as good as they can be.. Some of the very worst triggers I've ever had in the shop (commercial, not military) are on Remington M700s.... Many times it's the owner who goofed 'em up by not knowing what the heck they're doing.. It happens..

Winchester buyers don't like Browning parts on their rifles... If they wanted 'em, they can buy an A-bolt and giverhell...

I'm not seeing the new ones sell all that well.. At least, on Gunbroker, they keep getting reposted time after time after time with no bids.. Yet, the NH classics continue to sell with many getting way over what they brought when they were new... The local store here has 'em in stock and they're not flying out the doors..

There's a reason..

Off topic and maybe deserving of a new thread, but I like the trigger on the new M70. I have hunted with FN Mausers with aftermarket "enclosed" Timneys for years and never had problems. And, the area I hunt mule deer in is windy and has blowing sand, sage brush seeds, rabbit brush seeds, etc. and is hard on guns. Double shotguns with single triggers tend to quit firing the second barrel after a few hours and I have 390 and 391 Berettas quit working after a few hours in this environment.

After a 4 or 5 day hunt in this area, it literally takes months to get the sand and other crap out of the gun and the one SC M70 I have owned performed well out there. Additionally, the SC guns are of GREAT quality, especially when compared to the junk produced under the "Classic" period.

Given the choice I'd buy a pre-64 for the resale (not that my two sons would ever let me sell a gun they want) and the warm feeling it gives you. I am very impressed by what I've read and the few reviews recent owners have said about the new M70s made in SC. In the same vein I'm looking for a 300 Weatherby Southgate with an FN mauser action ... If I can't find one, I won't have any problem buying a new M70 in 300 Win Mag.

Chuck

Chuck: Bottom line is I'd take a Remington DG hunting any day of the week and wouldn't even think twice about it. The respect is mutual. Cheers, jorge

Colorado,

I personally like the new SC M70s a little better than pre-64s. I see a few FN .300 Weatherbys out there (check the Cabelas Web site and gunsamerica). I picked a .257 FN in an original Weatherby up from a dealer who didn't know what he had at a gun show for $350. I DEEPLY regret selling it for $950 a few minutes later on the way out the door... I haven't seen one in .257 before or since.

Thanks Desert, it's good to see the M70 back. I have time to look, so I'm checking gunbroker, gunsinternational, local "thrifty nickel" hoping to fall into a good deal on a 300 Weatherby Southgate FN.


Chuck