Just got my .411 barrel yesterday from Shilen. Off to the gunsmith next week. He has a 400 Whelen reamer and has built one of his own plus a few others. I always wanted a 400 Whelen but always put it on the back burner. Michael Petrov's research on the 400 ignited the interest again in a big way.

The barrel will be 24" when completed, the stock will get a little thicker pad and it will end up with a barrel band swivel and a Redfield barrel band sight. A Lyman 48 receiver sight would top off this classic.

Dies were ordered today. I sent off some fired cases from my gunsmiths rifle to CH4D for a set of their dies.

I plan to try Hawks 300, 350, and 400 grain bullets (.035 jacket) along with the Woodleigh 400s, the Hornady 300 grain spitzers and the Barnes 300 X. I have some of Quality Cartridge's 400 Whelen basic and will get a chance to try the COW method of fireforming on some 35 Whelen brass.

It started out as a Model 70 LH in 30-06.

Cool! Looking forward to a range report.

Very cool! IIRC this was Elmer's favorite rifle for big game.
Retro is cool IMO.
whelennut

mart - often wondered about the .400 Whelen as I have been informed that there is just too little shoulder left for proper headspace.
What do you folks think? Homesteader.

Take a read of this article by Michael Petrov. It should remove any doubt about the 400 Whelen and it's "headspace issues".

http://www.z-hat.com/smashing_the_headspace_myth.htm

whats the ballpark estimate for the project? been a longtime fan of the 35 whelen. the 400 whelen would make for a worthwhile endeavor if it isnt out of this world expensive.

rick35,

I ordered the barrel 3 months ago. It was $300 prethreaded for my model 70. A gunsmith friend with a 400 reamer is doing the barreling and chambering. If you were to get an action barreled I imagine it would run between $500-$600, then add sights and installation, and bluing. A little less than $1000 ought to get you into one ready to shoot and hunt. I am using CH4D dies because the cost savings is substantial over the more popular brands. I have a number of CH4D dies and have been well pleased with them. I will PM you with some more info.

Mart

Mart - thanks for the link...interesting article with plenty of "food for thought". Homesteader.

I had Pac-Nor chamber and install a 400 Whelen on a Rem 700 action three years ago.

[img:left][/img]

400 compared to 35
[img:left][/img]

Good luck with your 400, fun rifle to own

GREAT project there, and I love your choice of a base action. THAT one ought to put the hurt on stuff...

The continuation of this thread is one I will look forward to. That Petrov article was very interesting concerning the chamber dimensions. It would be great to see a picture of you, your new rifle, and a dead elk in the timber as a post script. Can't wait.

Waiting for Swampman to chime in here!

I'm liking that a lot! Too cool.

Since I'm in the same town, mind if I tag along when it is range time?

Not sure how soon I will get to the range with it. I am hoping real soon. I would welcome the company. I work a week on/week off schedule and will have family from the lower 48 this next week off, then a week of work, then it's dipnet time on the Kenai the following week off. I don't expect to be down on the Kenai for the whole week so am hoping everything is in order to head to the range that week (7/12-7/20). It may not be blued or have any sights on it other than a scope but I need to fire form some rounds and break in the barrel.

Mark (Safariman), congrats on the new son in law. I remember your kids being much shorter and younger but that's been a few years ago I guess.

I'll keep this thread updated as it develops. I ordered the dies Friday along with an expander die. Have to order bullets and some more brass as well as a bullet mold. Might as well give this one the full workout.

Mart

Dave,

I would love a poke at an elk with it but it's more likely to get used on a moose, caribou or bear. No elk locally.

Mart

Thanks Marty! He seems to be a good one. That 400 SHOULD poke a Moose, OK....

Mart, I just noticed that you're in Alaska. OK, I'll settle for a moose picture.

Dave93,

That is my hope this year. Our moose season is rumbling right up. It starts up late August and runs to late September. I may have to oil it up good and hunt with an in the white barrel if I plan to take a moose with it this year. I do have a late season tag (November) but it's a muzzleloader only tag.

Mart

I like the idea of a 400 Whelen,I would like to hear the numbers (velocity) on this setup.

raybass,

The 400 Whelen should run around 2150 with 400 grain bullet and around 2400 with a 300 grain. I suppose they could be convinced to run a little faster than that but I believe the good Colonel was aiming to duplicate the 450/400 Nitro in his beloved Springfields.

Mart

That should be enough! Heavy hitter I presume, I once had a 35 Whelen and really liked it. You could build fairly light and still have the power when neeeded.

I have a model 70 left handed 35 Whelen that I really love. I always wanted the bigger brother. I dropped it off this afternoon at the gunsmith's. Should have it ready to fit to the stock in a couple days. I am ready for this work week to be over so I can get to making some brass.

Mart

Mart,

What gunsmith are you using?

BE SURE your reamer is to the Griffin & Howe specs and the dies are too.
The real 400 Whelen as chambered by G&H was not just a necked up 06'.
Fred Zeglin's Book on Wildcat cartridges has a whole chapter by Mile Petrov on what the 400 Whelen should be. There are many, many incorrect reamers out there.
I publshed the book for Fred:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=237839867



That's my 400 on the left. Works well.



Sad thing is that Barnes stopped making the 350 gr .411 X

goodiewrench,

I've seen that elk picture of yours before. That's awesome. My 400 is based on the same reamer that Michael researched. In fact it was Michael's research that prompted me to follow up on my long time desire to build a 400. I spent a wonderful afternoon with him discussing all things Whelen before I embarked on this adventure. Michael is probably the foremost 400 Whelen authority in my humble opinion.

bearstalker - PM sent with your answer.

Mart

Mart, very cool project, and 2150 fps. is the perfect vels. for the Woodleigh or Hornady soft point bullet's.
If You were to work up loads w/ both soft's and solid's there's not a thing You couldn't do w/ that rig.

Gunner

I don't know that I will ever get to go to Africa but I live in Alaska with ample opportunity to put a rifle like this to work. I've no doubt that it would be fair medicine for Cape Buffalo. John Taylor spoke very well of the 450/400 and the good Colonel was, I believe, duplicating that round in his development of the 400 Whelen. Elmer Keith used one for 11 years and spoke glowingly of it.

Townsend Whelen has long been a hero of mine in the ranks of the gun writers of old. I think sometimes he gets overlooked for his contribution to the gun writing craft. I love to sit down with his books and always seem to glean something from them no matter how often I peruse them.

I had actually hoped to build this rifle on a Sedgley Springfield that was converted to left handed. It was a 30-06 and had had some considerable use. I was not able to secure it as I was out bid in the auction. Shortly after that I stumbled on to this model 70 and didn't hesitate. While the lefty Sedgley would have been quite a coup for a portsider like me, I think I will be just as happy with the model 70.

One more shift tonight for this week and I am on to my week off. Though we have company for the week I hope to sneak away for a little time at the reloading press for some case forming and perhaps even an afternoon at the range to break in the new barrel and fire form a few cases.

Mart

Soundin good Mart, that combo would be perfect for moose or any bear in Alaska. I think You got it covered, and will most certainly be the only one in camp w/ that cool caliber, good luck this fall.

Gunner

I've run 400's at 2,250-2,300 and 300's to 2,500.

The 400 also runs 375gr cast very well right at 2,220 with great accuracy.

Let's not forget it will run .410-.411 pistol bullets too...

HawkI,

I have a bucket full of 270 grain gas checked 41 mag bullets from an LBT mold I have. I am looking forward to trying them. I contacted Accurate Molds about having a mold made. They catalog a good looking 320 grain and 400 grain, both with gas checks, and will cut one cavity of each in a mold.

gunner,

I do like the unusual. My 35 Whelen is a 1941 model 70 converted to left handed and rebored from an 06. I have a Remington left hand KS mountain rifle in 300 H&H (from the factory but not a stock chambering). Only a few of my shooting/hunting friends even know what I am talking about when I mention the 400 Whelen.

Mart

I agree on the Barnes 350; a 350 TSX would be about perfect!

After reading this thread, I felt inspired and reread Petrovs articles on the .400 Whelen. Definitely a cool cartridge. Sort of a....black powder big bore meets the 20th century and the new fangled bolt action mechanism.

Another thing I thought of was Elmers story about guiding his Dad to a cow elk when they were on one of their annual hunting trips. Elmer had his Dad convinced to shoot a blow down pine tree to confirm the zero and when he did the cow jumped up and ran a ways and fell over. His Dad had a bet with one of their hunting partners who would get the first elk and with Elmers help his Dad won the bet.

Still looking forward with anticipation to seeing Marts finished rifle.

This morning I ordered some bullets to try in the 400. I ordered 300 grain Hornady Spitzers, 300 grain Barnes TSX, and Woodleigh 400 grainers along with another 20 rounds of 400 Whelen basic brass. Ouch! Still have a mold to order, NECG barrel band swivel and front sight yet to get (the Redfield is not going to be big enough) and some Hawk bullets. I see more overtime in my future.

Mart

Mart, with todays powders I thnk you could exceed the 450-400 Nitro Express with the 400 Whelen or at least duplicate the velocities. Very interesting project.

The cast bullet is the NEI 411-350 GC #225A. Get it made with the driving band (what they call the DD style) as you set them up so the DD just catches the lands. Shoot it in my 400 Whelen, modern (.411) 40-82 and 400 H&H (all w/same twist). You can push it as fast as lead will take. Not too aerodynamic but very impressive on culling steers and will hold 1.5 moa or better.

Don't know if Swift still makes the 400 gr spitzer A-Frame but was the most accurate and aerodynamic 400. The 400 gr X (I have a hoard) is just a bit too long for best accuracy. It will hold 2" in the 400 H&H which is "minute of anything" I'd ever use that for !

Funny you mention the LH RFS, Back when I had the RFS collection, I had a LH one that had a 12" pull as it was made for some oil baron's daughter. Forgotten if Mike got it or not as we did a lot of RFS trading. Down to 4 now, the short action Hornet, two "one offs": 22-06 & 6.5x55 and the 400 W.

6.5 & 22-06



SA Hornet and 400 W



There is more "expert gunwriter" BS about the 400 Whelen than anything else cept maybe the 220 Swift.
If I were building a new .411, I'd go with Zeglin's .411 Hawk. It too is a slammer.

Here's neat pair of southpaw RFSs made for the same guy in 1935.
One a 257 Bob the other an 06'. Left stock, right bolt and 100% factory engraved. Even with the ancient Zeiss scopes they were both MOA rifles ! Part of my former collection.



Course if you really "wanna get er done" 1.4 ounces of lead @.610 with lots of 2F is also reasonably effective (GRIN).
Even if it dates to 1809 and is a "flinter".







[img]http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z377/rocketcity1/4f6aa6c9.jpg[/img]

Goodiewrench,

Those are some beautiful rifles. I am going to be putting a barrel band swivel on my 400. How far forward of the receiver is yours and how far forward of the receiver does the forend end? I am planning on a new stock for the rifle and am looking for ideas and inspiration. Your 400 comes as close to what I am hoping to end up with as any rifle I have seen.

I am also curious about your 22-06. I have a Swift but have always wondered about the 22-06 and have never run into any one who had one. How does it perform in comparison to a Swift? Are you running light bullets like the Swift or is it geared more for heavier bullets? I don't know if I would ever build a 22-06 but it is an interesting wildcat from way back.

Mart

Mart, my band is about 2/5" in front of the fore end (where the original one was)(it was cracked) when it belonged to this guy. Needless to say it was pretty "gray" when I got it, but knowing Doug Turnbull since he was a toddler helped get it restored/improved for slight less than Obama is spending every day.



Gentry makes the best barrel band, You can get them already blued from Brownells and CONTRARY to what the Brownell catalog says they are tapered. There is a dot in the metal right above the swivel hole on one side. That goes toward the butt. I have installed several over the years using super locktite and a brass drift to knock em' on. Never had one come loose.

On the 22-06, when I bought mine it was shot out (HiVel powder was rough stuff). I had it rebarreled to match the original contour but with a 1 in 8 twist.

It will push an 80 gr Sierra MKBT bullet at 3600 fps. H869 is the only powder that works.
It will shoot 1MOA or better to 600 and is usually shoots better groups at 200 than 100 (bullet "going to sleep"?)
Easy to load but tricky to get to shoot well. Only winchester brass (thinner), expensive Redding bushing dies and so on. 75 gr Swifts and 62 gr TTSXs and 70gr TSXs also shoot very well. Have not tried Bergers yet but want to try the 22 cal 90 Grain Match Target VLD.

I also built a switch barrel Marlin Model X7C Long Action that was a 270 WCF using a Savage 22-250 barrel rechambered to 22-06. It would push a 50 gr at 4000+ (22" bbl 1 in 12 twist). It was VERY accurate shooting 3 in 1/2" at 100 and holding 3 in 2.5"@300 (farthest I ever shot it.)

BTW the Marlin is a great rifle for dirt cheap and the Savage nut barrel swap method would let you have anything that uses a 30-06 case (long action) or 308 (short action) as a basis. All you need is a barrel vise, the wrench and a headspace gauge. The swap takes about 20 minutes !

the rifle:

Great choice Mart,

I've got a question about the COW method for forming the 400 from the 35 Whelen.

Being that the Whelen measures .441" at the shoulder and the 400 Whelen measures .458" at the shoulder. Do they both share the same datum line at some place between the neck and shoulder junction.?

IME, the neck junctures are the same, see njs1230's photos.

I use a neck up in deference to a fireform with 35 cases; using basic brass requires only a trip through an FL die properly adjusted, as it is already the proper dimension full length. Many dies will not allow a shoulder to be set back too far by design.

Some chambers will require that the basic brass (Qual-cart) to be turned.

Judging by the drawings I have the 35 Whelen is 2.032 to the front of the shoulder and the 400 is 2.033. With only 1 thousandth of an inch difference they have essentially the same length to the front of the shoulder.

I have some 35 Whelen from military and some 30-06 military I will use for the COW method just to see if there is a difference in how each will form. I plan to form half my brass with the COW method and half with an expander die. I will report on each as soon as I get the rifle back and can get to the range.

I also have 40 rounds of 400 Whelen basic brass to form. The dies have been ordered so as soon as they get here I will get some cases formed and ready to shoot.

Mart

Well, I like it.

About 4 years ago I looked hard at the .411" cartridges, the 400 Whelen sat on top among my interests...

The other one that I really liked was the 411 RYAN, a straightened 240 Weatherby..

Anyway, I look forward to following you through this Mart.

Qual-Cartridge makes properly headstamped 400 Whelen brass.

To fire form, you put in a full load for a 300 gr bullet, seat a jacketed 41 S&W revolver bullet BACKWARDS so that it bites into the lands. Bolt should take some effort to close.
BANG and you'll have a case exactly fitted to your chamber.
Then send the cases (3) to Redding and have them make you a neck sizing die. You'll be set for life.

It's also a great gopher load out to 50 yards or so.

I have 40 Qual-Cartridge cases in 400 Whelen plus am prepping a bunch of brass to make more. At $40 for 20 rounds I won't be buying a lot of their brass. It is good but 40 properly headstamped will be enough for me to test and if I ever get to go to Africa I will buy a few more. I ordered a set of dies from CH4D based on cases fired in my gunsmiths rifle. He cut his chamber with the same reamer he is using for mine. The dies are not here yet so have been cleaning and prepping military brass.

Mart

I am enjoying this read, Marty! It is almost like you are back here again and we are yakkin over some mexican food at El Sombrero. I hope you get some serious moose blood on this over the next few years.

I can't wait to see how this works out. Pretty cool cartridge IMHO.

Mark,

I got back from the Whittier 26 Glacier cruise tonight and found my Midway order in the mailbox. Mom is here for a visit so we did the glacier cruise.

I don't know which was better.

This.



Or coming home to find this.



Also had a message on my machine that my gunsmith has my action barreled and ready to test fire. Woohoo.

Sounds like a good day all the way around, Marty. Good to hear of the good guys winning sometimes.

Mart, please keep this going. Its a very interesting project.

Will do. My gunsmith is test firing the rifle tonight I believe. I have to go back to work tomorrow (I work a week on/week off 12 hour days)so won't get any range time. I may be able to get it inlet into the stock this week in the evenings. Although after 12 hours of convicts I may not have the energy to work on anything when I get home.

I plan to form half the cases with an expander die, when it gets here, and the other half with the COW method to compare. I have most of the brass annealed in preparation for expanding and fireforming. A few more tonight and they will be all done. With any luck I will be putting lead down range next week off. I don't have a lot of time on the next week because we are headed down to the Kenai for our annual red salmon dipnetting pilgrimage.

I will keep it updated though as things happen.

Mart

Mart..,

I'm really enjoying watching this evolve.

Any word from your gunsmith concerning the test firing.?

No not yet. He works nights and I am on days this week. I rotate between days and nights with my schedule. A week of days, a week off, a week of nights, a week off and repeat 13 times a year. I expect he will call in the next day or two. I will update as soon as I know anything.

Mart

Its off to the range tomorrow. The barrel is on, it's been test fired and I hogged out the barrel channel on the old stock to receive the new barrel. I formed a few cases with the COW method but it was too much noise and mess firing into a long box filled with paper in my garage. I will fire a few rounds with some Hornaday 300 grain flat points to start the break in process then a bunch of military 30-06 and 35 Whelen (that was originally military 06) loaded with 16 grains of Bullseye and topped with corn meal and paper wadding or crayons. I tried 12 and fifteen grains in the garage but they didn't quite fill out the 06 cases. I tried some crayons in the 06 cases at the recommendation of a a member here. That is slick. Just push it in to the case mouth and break it off. Way faster than paper.

I'll post some pics tomorrow after I get back.

Mart

The 400 made it's maiden voyage to the range today. I only had eight rounds loaded with 300 grain Hornady flat points. The rest were loaded with 16.4 grains of Bullseye, topped with corn meal and some paper wadding or crayons depending on whether it was 35 Whelen or 30-06. I fired five rounds cleaning between each shot then fired a three round group at 100 yards. A two inch group, not bad for starting off. Then about 80 rounds of corn meal fire forming. I had a few failures, 10% to be exact. It seems to me that the 16.4 grains filled out the military brass that had been originally expanded to 35 Whelen and the factory 35 Whelen a little better than the regular 06 cases.

The recoil with the 300 grain flat points and 54 grains of 3031 was noticeable but not significantly more than my 35 Whelen. I am sure the 400 grain bullets will be a different story.

Here's a few pics.



Left is brass from the 54grains of 3031 and 300 grain bullet, middle is a former 35 Whelen and right is a former 30-06.


Ended up with 48 out of 50 on the 30-06


The 35 Whelens had a few more casualties but they had been loaded and fired a time or two as 35 Whelens.


And of course a few failures.


All in all it went pretty well for my first go at the COW method of fireforming. I used 16.4 grains because I was trying to get close to 16 grains after trying a few loads at 12 and 15 and not getting quite the fill out I wanted. My Little Dandy powder measure throws 8.2 grains with a number 15 rotor so I threw two charges in each case.

I'm now waiting on the dies and the expander die so I can try that method of making cases and compare the two.

Mart

hey mart, looks like your making great progress.
what does the "expander" die do/expand ?

Youre not the Gordie from Walla Walla that Marty and I know, are you?

Marty, lookin GOOD there with the custom rifle! I like the project even more! Bullwinkle had better be asceered.

gordie,

The expander dies takes the case from 30 caliber to, in this case, .416 diamter so that I can neck it down to .411 and create a shoulder to headspace on. Cases come out of an expander die looking a little ugly but one trip through the chamber with a decent load and they look all pretty again.

Mark,

It has a ways to go yet. The stock is the original Winchester that I hogged out to fit the new barrel. The barrel still needs to have the front sight (NECG) and the barrel band sling swivel (Gentry) installed. Also have to get next to a jeweler to engrave the caliber in the barrel and then have it blued. I have stock on order. It should be here any day. It will be a winter project getting it inlet, finished and checkered. I am working of finding a Lyman 48 receiver sight for it as well.

I am fast running out of weeks off to work on loads before hunting season. This week it's off to the Kenai for some dip netting for reds. The next week off I need to button up a few projects before the hunting season, like stacking 6 cord of firewood I have already split. Caribou and sheep starts on August 10th. Moose a couple of weeks later. I may not get to hunt with it this year but it will be seeing some serious action next year.

I am keeping an eye on this .400 Whelen subject!

65 grains of RL-15 and the 300 TSX is a dandy...in R-P 35 Whelen cases.

I've got a wildcat question that this thread brought to mind. Someone in my family has a wildcat rifle in the collection, a Mauser action. The brass in the cabinet for it is .300H&H, there's four or five boxes of .404" jacketed round nose bullets in there too. Anyone heard of this mix? It's from the '70s.

My next wildcat will be a Capstick .470, it's unavoidable.

No telling, you sure they are 404 diameter bullets? 404 Jeffery for example is a .423 diameter bullet.

How about the bore?

There was a 404 BJ Express.

mart,

How's the Whelen going?

FYI,

Both articles are now online

http://www.finegunmaking.com/page33/page51/page51.html
http://www.finegunmaking.com/page33/page52/page52.html

www.finegunmaking.com

It's coming along pretty well. I got to the range Thursday to finish the barrel break in and shoot a few groups. I shot some Hornady 300 grain flat points and 300 grain Spitzers. I got some good groups with 3031 and H4895. I got there with half my chronograph. I had the brain box but no sky screens . So I need to shoot some over the chronograph to report velocities. I have several more brands and weights of bullets to try yet.

I did form another 65 cases with cream of wheat. I am still waiting on the dies so up till now have been fireforming with COW and neck sizing with 41 mag dies. I use a 458 Win mag bullet seater to seat the bullets. I am anxious to try the Qual Cart 400 brass and I just picked up some Norma unformed cylindrical 30-06 cases.

I ordered a bullet mold from Accurate molds. I had them do a 320 grain and a 400 grain in on set of blocks. It's a brass mold and wow! It is a thing of beauty.



I should have blown the dust out before I took this picture. I was doing some sanding in the shop yesterday.



I don't know how much more testing I'll get done for a while. Hunting seasons start my next week off (caribou August 10 and moose August 25) and runs until the end of September. I won't be getting much range time unless I fill my moose tag early. I have a late season muzzleloader tag for November so I have second chance if the moose don't cooperate during the regular season.

I still have the 300 grain Barnes TSX, Woodleigh 400's, and Hawks in 300, 350 and 400 grains. I want to do some more work with both the Hornady's. A couple of break in loads showed some real promise.

I also have to get the front sight and barrel band swivel on and get it blued.

Man I got kind of long winded there. I will update more soon I hope.

Mart

Snuck away for another trip to the range today. Probably my last one till after the hunting seasons are over. I remembered both halves of the chronograph today. I tried a few loads for velocity that had shot well the other day. For the most part the loads all ran pretty close to the data I was working from.

I shot some Hornady 300 grain flat points with 61 grains of 3031. That load had shot well during break in. Good group and 2310 for velocity. The data I loaded from shows 2312. I ran the same load with the Hornady SP's and came up with 2364. I tried a load of 57 grains of H4895 and came up with 2321. The load data I have shows 2543 with 60 grain of of H4895 so 57 is right in the ball park of where it should be. I checked a load of 50 grains of 4198 behind both bullets and came up with 2230 for the SP's and 2203 for the FP's. The data indicates 2198.

The Barnes 300 grain TSX looked good at 60 grains of 3031 but only came up to 2190. With 58 grains it ran 2121 and 59 was 2151.

Working off some data for the Swift 350 grain A frame with 58, 59 and 60 grains of 4064 I tried the same charge with the Hawk 350 grain. Velocities ran 2033, 2078, and 2084 respectively and accuracy was nothing to write home about.

The 400 grain Woodleighs were a surprise. The data I had showed loads of 62-64 grains of H4895 and velocities from 2567 to 2690. I really have no desire to stand behind this eight and a half pound gun with 400 grainers running 2690. I did try 56, 57 and 58 grains and while the 56 and 58 grain loads ran 2301 and 2353 the 57 grain load ran 2154. Hmmm. The 56 grain load shot very well. The 57 grain load showed 204 fps of extreme spread with two shots ~100fps slower than average and two shots ~100fps faster. The others were very consistent. The brass is LC Match of different years but all are within 2-3 grains of each other in weight.

As for accuracy I turned in some good groups but overall I believe the full length bedding I did is not helping. I think I will free float the barrel and try again with some of the loads.

When it comes to recoil I could shoot the 300 grain bullets pretty much all day. While their recoil is noticeable, it is not at all bad. The 350's weren't bad but then velocities were fairly low. I expect with other powders and higher velocities it will be more pronounced. Now the 400 grain bullet at 2350 fps is substantial. It is very noticeably more than the 300 grainers. Let's put it this way. When you drop the hammer on a 400 grainer it leaves very little doubt in your mind that the rifle went off.

From what I am seeing I will probably spent more time working with H4895 as it seems to be showing some of the best accuracy along with some decent velocity. None of the cases have indicated any undue signs of pressure nor have I had any sticky extraction.

I have had no issues with headspace, at all. Cases go in and stop on the shoulder and when I have tried it the extractor will pop over the case head without pushing the case further into the chamber or pushing the shoulder back on the case.

I do have some feed work to do. The Hornady flat points and spitzers both want to snag a little. The TSX feeds like greased lightning. The Hawk and the Woodleighs both fed with out problems.

I am anxious to get it finished and get it hunting. Doesn't look like it will make it afield this year but it will be ready for spring bear.

Mart

Don't mess with the feeding, just run the TSX's and be happy!

Also, I like f ull length bedded gun for serious or bad weather hunting, evenif the accuracy is not up to what it might be if floated. How accurate do you need it to be to flatten a MOOSE, anyway?

Run it like it is and kill some stuff is my suggestion.

thanks for the updates, keep us all in the loop!

Mark,

It is showing some inconsistencies that I think are either a bedding issue or a scope problem. The scope is a Leupold 3x that has been back to the factory recently for a check up but I may change out the scopes just to check before I mess with the bedding.

I would like to see better than the 3-4 MOA I am getting. It may be that it's a new barrel and needs to settle in but I suspect the bedding is the culprit. I get the occasional group that is 1.5" but most run 3+ inches. You never know, I might want to come down and shoot ground squirrels with you and it needs to be shooting better for that mission.

As for the TSX bullets, well without starting another X bullet war, I will concede that they are a good bullet. I am just not one of their biggest fans. I was probably one of the earliest users of the Barnes X bullets when they first came out and my first 300 H&H shot them well. Every rifle since then has been extremely finicky about shooting them and I have sent many $$$ worth of them down range trying to get them to shoot. I gave up on them years ago, not because they are a bad performer on game but because I had so much more success getting cup and core bullet to shoot well. I am testing them in the 400 because they are available and there really are not a lot of .411 bullets out there. If they shoot well in my 400 I will use them but I prefer a good round nose cup and core.

I still have more work to do on the 400. I have no doubt I will find the right combination.

Mart

If you find the scope to be part of the problem, I MIGHT part with an extra Burris Sigature POSI LOCK 2x-8x30 I just obtained. Field of view that is amazing, and once set up and sighted in, you cannot knock it out of zero without destroying it in total.

Good luck with getting the rifle to shoot. I agree, it sounds like a bedding issue.

Mark,

I have several more scopes to choose from but thanks for the offer. In all the Leupolds I have had, I've only had one fail. It was a 2-8 VariXIII. They actually sent me a new one after damaging the original taking it apart. I really doubt the scope is the problem. It is one I picked up last year and sent back for a check up. It has been on a couple other rifles and done fine. I really think the bedding is the culprit. After hunting season is over I will get crazy with the scrapers, clean out some bedding material and see how it shoots.

I have to go back to work tomorrow for my week on then it's off to a caribou hunt, followed by a possible sheep/caribou hunt, then moose, then some birds, maybe a goat hunt and possibly a bear hunt just before denning. Basically work a week, hunt a week and repeat till snow flies.

Mart

I envy your hunting opportunities up there. If only wine grapes could be grown in AK. By the way I am a fan of the TSX bullets too. They shoot really well in my 7mm Rem Mag and my 300 Win Mag. Seem to be much less finicky than the old ungrooved X bullets. Best of luck with the hunting and shooting, Brian.

We earn our 40 day hunting opportunities up here in southcentral AK. 7 months of winter 5 months of tourists pretty much summs it up.

Limited access and lots of pressure where there is game, would not trade it for somwhere else but trying to be realistic. Lots
of other western states have more game and less pressure but a good day up here makes it all worthwhile.

You got that right. The sun just broke through after many days of rain and it is beautiful today. Headed out tomorrow to help a young man fill his bou tag. Maybe I will see a black bear to get a shot at. Hoping for a few days of nice weather.

Mart

They measure out at .404. Weird huh?