If you only had a budget of 500 buck what 6x24x50 would you suggest ? I know 500 really isn't much for quality optics. it will be going on a 338 Lapua for hunting and target shooting.
Why own a Lapua (Cost of Rifle), and shoot a very expensive round (reloaded or factory ammo), and now skimp on a optic?
You have not mentioned max distance (target) or max distance for hunting (What is the largest game?) or purpose for the rifle yet, other than general shooting and hunting???
The rifle is a Savage 112 Target. Longest shot I would prob be looking at is around 500 yards. Hunting would be mule deer, elk and whitetail
Not trying to skimp on optics, but budget is what it is. Living on fixed income ain't fun, but doable.
I did some trading to get this rifle from a buddy. It's never been shot. Came with 60 rounds of Hornady Match 250 grain ammo.
It does have one of the Burris Eliminator 3 scopes on it. But it's big, bulky and seems complicated to use and set. I'm old school and think a standard scope would serve me better. Could be wrong, usually am.
Given the stated purpose and budgetary restrictions, I'd sell it and get something that will work just as well out to 500 yards and not cost $7 per shot. You won't want to practice much to become proficient with the rifle if you're seeing dollar signs every time you squeeze the trigger. Something between the 6.5 Creedmoor with 147 ELD and 7 PRC with 180 ELD would give you all the ballistic advantage you likely need and want.
Once you're done getting a rifle that better fits the need, I'd grab something like a new SWFA 10x to throw on top.
Eeek...I just googled a Savage in .338 Lapua...holee schidt...it only weighs 9#. If it doesn't kill you it'll kill the scope for sure.
Oh wait, I was looking at the wrong specs...it's 12#...still?
I've shot them, they are not that bad. Especially when using the brake. One of my buddies has one, and it easily shoots sub moa for 5 shots. He's running an old Vortex Viper HST on it. It seems to be holding up, but not what I'd suggest. I'd probably look for something like a fixed power SWFA SS, and call it a day, if I only had a $500.00 budget.
Given the stated purpose and budgetary restrictions, I'd sell it and get something that will work just as well out to 500 yards and not cost $7 per shot. You won't want to practice much to become proficient with the rifle if you're seeing dollar signs every time you squeeze the trigger. Something between the 6.5 Creedmoor with 147 ELD and 7 PRC with 180 ELD would give you all the ballistic advantage you likely need and want.
Once you're done getting a rifle that better fits the need, I'd grab something like a new SWFA 10x to throw on top.
Given the stated purpose and budgetary restrictions, I'd sell it and get something that will work just as well out to 500 yards and not cost $7 per shot. You won't want to practice much to become proficient with the rifle if you're seeing dollar signs every time you squeeze the trigger. Something between the 6.5 Creedmoor with 147 ELD and 7 PRC with 180 ELD would give you all the ballistic advantage you likely need and want.
Once you're done getting a rifle that better fits the need, I'd grab something like a new SWFA 10x to throw on top.
Sound advice right here.
I appreciate y,all advice. Luckily I have a close friend that shoots a 338 and reloads. So ammo will not be as expensive.
I'll just keep the Burris on there for now and save up until I can afford something else.
Given the stated purpose and budgetary restrictions, I'd sell it and get something that will work just as well out to 500 yards and not cost $7 per shot. You won't want to practice much to become proficient with the rifle if you're seeing dollar signs every time you squeeze the trigger. Something between the 6.5 Creedmoor with 147 ELD and 7 PRC with 180 ELD would give you all the ballistic advantage you likely need and want.
Once you're done getting a rifle that better fits the need, I'd grab something like a new SWFA 10x to throw on top.
Good post. I was thinking the same thing, especially since the budget is tight.
The 10X SWFA and the Arken were scopes I was going to recommend for the budget.
@Wizard1962 , If you get someone to help you with the Eliminator, it will also work for your goals as well. Getting it programmed does take a bit of time, but not much. Check out the Burris website too or call them for help.
Eliminator on a center-grip single shot XP-100 specialty pistol, chambered in 284 Winchester.
I started out with a real barrel eating beast, the 7mm Allen Mag. the barrel is almost toast, but the knowledge gained was truly worth the cost, could I have learned as much with a 7mm/08? Possibly so but as it stands a new barrel and I have a legitimate 1 mile whitetail rifle. As it stands I have had 18 years of long range practice. the 338 caliber will outlast the 7mm running the same case. Good luck in your venture, mine has been a fun ride!
I started out with a real barrel eating beast, the 7mm Allen Mag. the barrel is almost toast, but the knowledge gained was truly worth the cost, could I have learned as much with a 7mm/08? Possibly so but as it stands a new barrel and I have a legitimate 1 mile whitetail rifle. As it stands I have had 18 years of long range practice. the 338 caliber will outlast the 7mm running the same case. Good luck in your venture, mine has been a fun ride!
Thanks Ridge Runner
My buddy has this Leupold he will sell for 400
Leupold Mark 3HD 8-24x50mm Rifle Scope, 30 mm Tube, Second Focal Plane (SFP)
Price sounds good. Are you going to be okay with a minimum magnification of 8x?
My main hunting rifle is an old Remy in .257 Robert's. It has a Leupold M8 8x on it. Taken lots of game with it. But will give some thoughts on the 8x24 and maybe look more towards 6x18
I started out with a real barrel eating beast, the 7mm Allen Mag. the barrel is almost toast, but the knowledge gained was truly worth the cost, could I have learned as much with a 7mm/08? Possibly so but as it stands a new barrel and I have a legitimate 1 mile whitetail rifle. As it stands I have had 18 years of long range practice. the 338 caliber will outlast the 7mm running the same case. Good luck in your venture, mine has been a fun ride!
Thanks Ridge Runner
My buddy has this Leupold he will sell for 400
Leupold Mark 3HD 8-24x50mm Rifle Scope, 30 mm Tube, Second Focal Plane (SFP)
Thoughts ?
2nd FP will only allow using the reticle to range on 24X, other than that if you can get by with 8Xon the low side its a good deal,, have no idea how the mark3's track, all mine have M1 turrets.
I started out with a real barrel eating beast, the 7mm Allen Mag. the barrel is almost toast, but the knowledge gained was truly worth the cost, could I have learned as much with a 7mm/08? Possibly so but as it stands a new barrel and I have a legitimate 1 mile whitetail rifle. As it stands I have had 18 years of long range practice. the 338 caliber will outlast the 7mm running the same case. Good luck in your venture, mine has been a fun ride!
Thanks Ridge Runner
My buddy has this Leupold he will sell for 400
Leupold Mark 3HD 8-24x50mm Rifle Scope, 30 mm Tube, Second Focal Plane (SFP)
Thoughts ?
Sounds like a heck of a deal on a solid scope. Get a quality set of rings/base and rock on.
I started out with a real barrel eating beast, the 7mm Allen Mag. the barrel is almost toast, but the knowledge gained was truly worth the cost, could I have learned as much with a 7mm/08? Possibly so but as it stands a new barrel and I have a legitimate 1 mile whitetail rifle. As it stands I have had 18 years of long range practice. the 338 caliber will outlast the 7mm running the same case. Good luck in your venture, mine has been a fun ride!
Thanks Ridge Runner
My buddy has this Leupold he will sell for 400
Leupold Mark 3HD 8-24x50mm Rifle Scope, 30 mm Tube, Second Focal Plane (SFP)
Thoughts ?
2nd FP will only allow using the reticle to range on 24X, other than that if you can get by with 8Xon the low side its a good deal,, have no idea how the mark3's track, all mine have M1 turrets.
Ranging is way down the list of practical uses for the reticle that will be impacted by having the reticle in the second focal plane.
Said scope would also be way down my list of preferences for a LR rig.
I started out with a real barrel eating beast, the 7mm Allen Mag. the barrel is almost toast, but the knowledge gained was truly worth the cost, could I have learned as much with a 7mm/08? Possibly so but as it stands a new barrel and I have a legitimate 1 mile whitetail rifle. As it stands I have had 18 years of long range practice. the 338 caliber will outlast the 7mm running the same case. Good luck in your venture, mine has been a fun ride!
Thanks Ridge Runner
My buddy has this Leupold he will sell for 400
Leupold Mark 3HD 8-24x50mm Rifle Scope, 30 mm Tube, Second Focal Plane (SFP)
Thoughts ?
2nd FP will only allow using the reticle to range on 24X, other than that if you can get by with 8Xon the low side its a good deal,, have no idea how the mark3's track, all mine have M1 turrets.
Ranging is way down the list of practical uses for the reticle that will be impacted by having the reticle in the second focal plane.
Said scope would also be way down my list of preferences for a LR rig.
I started out with a real barrel eating beast, the 7mm Allen Mag. the barrel is almost toast, but the knowledge gained was truly worth the cost, could I have learned as much with a 7mm/08? Possibly so but as it stands a new barrel and I have a legitimate 1 mile whitetail rifle. As it stands I have had 18 years of long range practice. the 338 caliber will outlast the 7mm running the same case. Good luck in your venture, mine has been a fun ride!
Thanks Ridge Runner
My buddy has this Leupold he will sell for 400
Leupold Mark 3HD 8-24x50mm Rifle Scope, 30 mm Tube, Second Focal Plane (SFP)
Thoughts ?
2nd FP will only allow using the reticle to range on 24X, other than that if you can get by with 8Xon the low side its a good deal,, have no idea how the mark3's track, all mine have M1 turrets.
Not exactly--Both Luepy and Burris has models that would work on less than max. (Any scope with SFP will do it). Lekupy VX3 Used a varmint reticle in their 4.5x14. using the horizontal wires and turning the mag. ring until the target fit between them, then reading the distance of the magnification ring. IIRC it was set for 30". Burris in their Fullfield 2 6.5x25 set the crosshair zero at 14 power.
any SFP can be used this way. say the variable range is 3x15 which means that the scope mags goes over a range of 12 and divided by 2 or 6. So the MOA/Mil subtension will 2x that at 9x so the holdovers will be 2x the amount of their markings. Thus the 2 Moa/mil will be 4 etc.
FFP scopes lose a lot of their reticle utility at the lower mag. powers and an advantage using the SFP is using the turrets at the lower mag. range.
Not really. The beauty of FFP is that it can act like a simple duplex reticle on low magnification, and provide more detailed subtension information at higher magnification.
Using the turrets is not an SFP advantage, as turrets can be used at any magnification, regardless of the focal plane on which the reticle is placed.
[quote=Ridge_Runner]any SFP can be used this way. say the variable range is 3x15 which means that the scope mags goes over a range of 12 and divided by 2 or 6. So the MOA/Mil subtension will 2x that at 9x so the holdovers will be 2x the amount of their markings. Thus the 2 Moa/mil will be 4 etc.
In contrast, the subtensions in an FFP reticle are the same at all magnification settings, and that simplicity helps most people keep Murphy at bay.
Thanks Jordan, what in your opinion should be looking for ?
Thanks
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Once you're done getting a rifle that better fits the need, I'd grab something like a new SWFA 10x to throw on top.
Since you describe yourself as old school and likely be better served by a standard scope, the SWFA SS 10x would be a simple and very effective way to get a scope for LR target shooting and hunting for under $500. They are mechanically very functional and reliable, the reticle is very useful, and you don't have to worry about the FFP vs. SFP decision.
FFP scopes lose a lot of their reticle utility at the lower mag. powers and an advantage using the SFP is using the turrets at the lower mag. range.
Not really. The beauty of FFP is that it can act like a simple duplex reticle on low magnification, and provide more detailed subtension information at higher magnification.
Using the turrets is not an SFP advantage, as turrets can be used at any magnification, regardless of the focal plane on which the reticle is placed.
I should have worded it better, SFP doesn't need the hold over as the turrets can be used at lower powers for the holdovers. The disadvantage of the FFP at lower powers is an obscure reticle. The advantage of the FFP is that at higher mags. the hold offs and hold overs don't have to be done in the head
any SFP can be used this way. say the variable range is 3x15 which means that the scope mags goes over a range of 12 and divided by 2 or 6. So the MOA/Mil subtension will 2x that at 9x so the holdovers will be 2x the amount of their markings. Thus the 2 Moa/mil will be 4 etc.
FFP scopes lose a lot of their reticle utility at the lower mag. powers and an advantage using the SFP is using the turrets at the lower mag. range.
Not really. The beauty of FFP is that it can act like a simple duplex reticle on low magnification, and provide more detailed subtension information at higher magnification.
Using the turrets is not an SFP advantage, as turrets can be used at any magnification, regardless of the focal plane on which the reticle is placed.
I should have worded it better, SFP doesn't need the hold over as the turrets can be used at lower powers for the holdovers. The disadvantage of the FFP at lower powers is an obscure reticle. The advantage of the FFP is that at higher mags. the hold offs and hold overs don't have to be done in the head
In addition to holdover, there are a number of other valuable uses for reticle subtensions: spotting hits/misses and measuring needed correction, holding for wind drift, holding lead, measuring target size, estimating distance, etc.
Not all FFP reticles are faint at lower magnification, it really depends on the reticle design.
any SFP can be used this way. say the variable range is 3x15 which means that the scope mags goes over a range of 12 and divided by 2 or 6. So the MOA/Mil subtension will 2x that at 9x so the holdovers will be 2x the amount of their markings. Thus the 2 Moa/mil will be 4 etc.
any SFP can be used this way. say the variable range is 3x15 which means that the scope mags goes over a range of 12 and divided by 2 or 6. So the MOA/Mil subtension will 2x that at 9x so the holdovers will be 2x the amount of their markings. Thus the 2 Moa/mil will be 4 etc.
Wouldn't the values double at 7.5x?
If the subtensions are accurate at 15x, then yes.
If the mag zoom range was 0x15 then 7.5 would be double.
any SFP can be used this way. say the variable range is 3x15 which means that the scope mags goes over a range of 12 and divided by 2 or 6. So the MOA/Mil subtension will 2x that at 9x so the holdovers will be 2x the amount of their markings. Thus the 2 Moa/mil will be 4 etc.
Wouldn't the values double at 7.5x?
If the subtensions are accurate at 15x, then yes.
If the mag zoom range was 0x15 then 7.5 would be double.
The relationship between reticle subtension and magnification doesn’t depend on the range of magnification settings built into the scope. It could be a 1-15x SFP scope or 5-15x, the subtension values at 7.5x are double the values at 15x.
Yes and the relationship is linear not exp/log. so the starting point for the relationship uses the center of the range not the top range. This is how Burris Ballistic reticle relationship is set. As Swarovski does the same, at least in my Z6, by grouping bullet drops in 3 separate catagories, (little drop to lots of drop) then using their online program the scope can be set up for any caliber.
I'm not sure where you hunt elk, but no way I'd want an 8x or 10x as my lowest mag available. I hunt dark thick timber part of the time where 3x is the most I'd want. If I were you, I'd shoot that rig as is, you might like that scope and you won't have to buy a rangefinder. You can always sell it later. Otherwise, if you really think 500yds will be your max, any 3-9 with a ballistic reticle would work. If you can find the old 1" Vortex Razor 3-15 you might be able to get one for $500, great scopes. But even the $99 Burris FFII would work. I'm not a fan of FFP on hunting rifles, but many are.
I'm not sure where you hunt elk, but no way I'd want an 8x or 10x as my lowest mag available. I hunt dark thick timber part of the time where 3x is the most I'd want. If I were you, I'd shoot that rig as is, you might like that scope and you won't have to buy a rangefinder. You can always sell it later. Otherwise, if you really think 500yds will be your max, any 3-9 with a ballistic reticle would work. If you can find the old 1" Vortex Razor 3-15 you might be able to get one for $500, great scopes. But even the $99 Burris FFII would work. I'm not a fan of FFP on hunting rifles, but many are.
Thank you very much. I believe I am just going to keep it as is for now. Get it sighted in at 100 and program the muzzle velocity and bullet coefficient and see how it does.
I'm not sure where you hunt elk, but no way I'd want an 8x or 10x as my lowest mag available. I hunt dark thick timber part of the time where 3x is the most I'd want. If I were you, I'd shoot that rig as is, you might like that scope and you won't have to buy a rangefinder. You can always sell it later. Otherwise, if you really think 500yds will be your max, any 3-9 with a ballistic reticle would work. If you can find the old 1" Vortex Razor 3-15 you might be able to get one for $500, great scopes. But even the $99 Burris FFII would work. I'm not a fan of FFP on hunting rifles, but many are.
Thank you very much. I believe I am just going to keep it as is for now. Get it sighted in at 100 and program the muzzle velocity and bullet coefficient and see how it does.
Yes and the relationship is linear not exp/log. so the starting point for the relationship uses the center of the range not the top range. This is how Burris Ballistic reticle relationship is set. As Swarovski does the same, at least in my Z6, by grouping bullet drops in 3 separate catagories, (little drop to lots of drop) then using their online program the scope can be set up for any caliber.
Agreed that the relationship is linear, but the point of reference is whatever magnification setting for which the scope manufacturer calibrated the reticle subtensions. The Burris Ballistic Plex is typically calibrated for the max magnification setting.
The behaviour is easy to observe if you have an optical collimator, and there are even some phone apps that simulate it. Of course, actual shooting will verify the relationship, as I have done many times.
Yes Ive verified the relationship many times with many SFP scopes also. Have yet to find one that starts with mag at zero, could you provide a few examples. I want to take a look at them. Shoot 4 days week, long range, western desert Utah. You do you , I'll do me.
rcamuglia is right. No two scopes are made the same., and mag. marks certainly are not reflective of actual value. wasn't suggesting they were. my Benchrest NF has the hold overs set at 11x even though the scope is 22x, and my Hensholdt 6/24 is set at 12x both are SFP. Is that 11.5x or 10.5 and 11.5 or 12.5 on the Hens. , and thats to say nothing about no correction on windage. The only way to find out is to shoot it. (as rc suggests)
Never had the pleasure of shooting a manicured rifle range, fixed firing line, (on buckets list) most of the long range stuff I do has at least as much uphill and downhill error in the holdover reticle as the mag. guess. Getting old though, only shoot 20,000 to 30,000 rds. a year, not like early match days which was 100,000 for 3 gun IPSC, an occasional Steel Challenge, or hand gun silhouette thrown in.
If your curious about corrections for SFP, Sniperhides has excellent posts, a lot of "Barricade Benchrest" but not as much "tactical quarter groups" stuff as Campy
Not really difficult if you understand whats going on, and as you had someone do it for you I can safely assume that you don't. Their is nothing precise about shooting especially when the wind and inclination gets involved. Certainly nothing precise in the sense of 2 decimal places to the right. oh maybe the maching in the gun parts, and tolerance in bullets, but after that the random errors start cancellingl or negate all those those plans.
Oh and cut back on testosterone shots,, maybe add a little progesterone to off set it. And yes I have all the state and Federal lic. to say that. In 37 states as a fact.
Not really difficult if you understand whats going on, and as you had someone do it for you I can safely assume that you don't. Their is nothing precise about shooting especially when the wind and inclination gets involved. Certainly nothing precise in the sense of 2 decimal places to the right. oh maybe the maching in the gun parts, and tolerance in bullets, but after that the random errors start cancellingl or negate all those those plans.
Originally Posted by Etoh
Oh and cut back on testosterone shots,, maybe add a little progesterone to off set it. And yes I have all the state and Federal lic. to say that. In 37 states as a fact.
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