First sling stud attached short bipod...


... what diference ought I to see in impact point (shifting/whatever)?

Thanx

Barry (who say them used on Rifles Only Inc. DVD)

Harris have never changed the POI on any of my rifles.


Travis

nor mine

Randy

My POI usually rises by about 1-1.5MOA when using various types of bipods on various rifles.

This the case across the board? Just wondering because you shoot the LW Kimber.... and a couple of A5s. I could see that with the Kimber.... but not with the A5 chunks.

I don't notice a difference in POI... but I don't shoot uber-light rifles.

That is what happens with one of my rifles. 3-4" difference at 400 yards, I thought my POI got lower? Can't remember....grin


Floated and bedded lug and they should be good to go, yes?

Yep, that's the case across the board, though surface hardness plays a large role. If I'm on a super soft surface, like long prairie grass, then I don't notice much difference. But if it's hard, frozen ground, or anything harder than pillows, then I tend to see the 1-1.5MOA upward shift from my sand bag zero.

All my bolt rifles are bedded and floated.

I see absolutely no zero [bleep] when using my Harris, regardless of surface.

We shoot some stages in our Precision Rifle match where you must remove your bipod and use your pack or some other means of front end support for the rifle.

It's done for the exact reason that most rifles have a different POI.

Mine does and I'm sure yours will. You must know the difference and allow for it if you decide/have to shoot in that position.

It's all part of this intricate thing we do with rifles

I think it's simply dependent on the rifle. It's not something that can be argued in my opinion. It either has an effect on your rifle or it doesn't.



Travis

I do have one rifle that doesn't change between sandbags and bipod, and another that only shifts up by 0.75MOA, but most rise by 1-1.5MOA when I go to the bipod. I certainly agree that each rifle responds a little differently.

Jordan, do you think there's a bit of a difference in the way you drive the rifles when they're on bags or bipods, and this is where the change comes from?

I'm going to check my rifles tomorrow and see if I've got any POI shifts.

Difference? From what, offhand?

Bipod is the baseline for me, don't mean to be sarcastic.

The only difference I've noticed is that with some surfaces the bi-pod will hop going into recoil and you will not see the absolute accuracy potential that a front rest and bags will give. That being said most of my rifles do the best with a short bipod and a sandbag under the toe of the stock, and if the stock is doing it's job there won't be a shift in impact.

+ 1
I have some rifle that will shoot the same from the bench and the pod as long as I do my part.
To add to this CONSISTENCY is key if your gun likes the pod loaded then load it some of mine like it some dont. Ive seen guys have problems with hard surface, torquing the pod and not locking the legs into a nothch (shooting off a pod with the legs in and resting on the springs) A good rear bag is important also dwell time off a pod can show its ugly head. All depends on what degree of accuracy you are looking for.

I usually use a front rest and rear bag when testing loads. Then I use a bipod (sometimes not always) at distance. I've never seen a change in POI.


Travis

Same.

It's possible. I mean the shooting position is certainly different when going from sand bags to a bipod, so who knows. I honestly think it has to do with the vibration on the legs and stock kicking the rifle up a bit more than when the rifle slides straight back on the sand bags.

In my short experience, I've come to the conclusion that I shoot best prone, so all of my load work comes off the ground or out of the bed of my truck using a bipod and rear bag.

My folly, I'm realizing, is that I don't hunt with a bipod and I have never really taken the time to check for POI shifts like Jordan is reporting on. Maybe I just need to start hunting with a lightweight BP...

I don't notice POI shifts off the short bipod compared to sandbag zeros. But, the rifle is more accurate off the bags.

I also tend to use a little larger rear bag and load up on the bipod when possible. When the ground is a little more firm, I typically shoot with my left hand riding on the scope rather than running support for the rear bag. By applying that downward pressure to the glass, I can effectively combat that dreaded 'bipod bounce'... and spot shots much better.

Good one Tanner. Develop the load with the rifle set up as you intend to use it in the field or competition.

This is a good reason for why I do ALL of my shooting (sans at animals) off a back pack with a rear rest under the butt. Load work up, scope zeroing, recreational shooting, is all done with my pecker on mother natures chin, and my stock nestled on my 3000 cu. In. Filled with the same two schitty fleece vests I never wear

What happens when you take a shot at a game animal that isn't from prone, ie. sitting, offhand, kneeling, etc? :P

Its simple, I miss it then I can blame it on the gun *grin*.

Truth be told shots past 300 yards in Ontario are few and far between. I practice field positions to 330 yards casually throughout the off season. Most stuff round here is sub-100 yards offhand though. I mainly shoot gongs for fun.

The results will have nothing to do with a point of impact change from the different position and everything to do with the unsteady position.

Well, maybe for you. But some guys can shoot.

I was simply pointing out that it's a good idea to check POI consistency between whatever shooting positions you are likely to use when it's crunch time...

In this test from last summer the bipod group actually hit a tad lower.

99% of my shooting is prone from a bipod with a rear bag. I feel I shoot as good from that position as I do from a bench with a machine rest.

Me too

From standing off hand, kneeling, and sitting unsupported, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between groups shot with a custom one-hole rifle and a Savage.... LOL!

That's a low blow to all the Savage lovers out there...

Thanx everyone!

Here's my little 'test'.

2 100 yard targets- the 5 shot group is from laying in the snow with a bipod and rear bag, while the 3 shotter is using my backpack and the rear bag I use while hunting. The backpack group isn't great, but it's around .7" which I suppose is decent for a hunting position. The group fired from a bipod is a bit over .5" and was the first target shot with this load. I wouldn't say there was any significant change in POI, for this rifle at least. I also had my hand atop the scope while firing this way, and I will say the recoil came much straighter back and not fighting bipod "hop" was very nice.



I shot using this position.


And I fired one 600 yard group using this same setup.

That's a shame its groups open like that Tanner....I got a real nice Abolt 25-06 sitting here I'll trade you for it. I'll even include dies and the rust that's all over it

WTF is that piece of leather hanging off your rifle?

Some guy on here makes them...

If a guy on here made Leopard print banana hammocks.... would you be wearin' one of those?

I already am....?

LOL... go 'gettem tiger?

Great post, I will have to check my two primaries also. I sight mine in with a bipod at 300 yards. I carry it on the rifle while in the field unless I am in an area where a longer shot is not going to happen, usually in the brush. I have killed three elk in the last few years using the bipod and probably an equal amount without it. But I will run the test when the weather improves.

Jacob Bynum's approach (Rifles Only Inc.) deals with set-up using bipods only. I did a thread on difference from bench at side and at back using his methods before getting the DVD. It's all in the set-up and I am looking forward to implementing his techniques.
https://www.riflesonly.com/pro-shop...ecision-rifle-volume-1-fundamentals.html

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7004115/Rifles_Only_Inc#Post7004115

Any thing that alters the launching pad will change the poi particulary a weight on the fore stock.

Not for me.

Okay, tried the bipod from prone at 100 yards and...



...better groups than sandbagged at the bench, even with rounds I thought were marginal. This with .280 Rem [BDL DM/KwikKlip], .338 WM [Ruger 77 with brake]. Thanks to Jacob Bynum and Greg Rodriguez.

No noticeable shift in POI, although I would expect some if held freehand.

Never noticed any POI change on my rifles with the bipod and I always sight in with a rest and bags and hunt with the bipod. My longest (610 yards) and shortest (125 yards) shots on elk and deer have all been with the Harris 25C bipod and always went just where I expected them to go.
Groups seem to be about the same also, but I do get a bit more bounce at the bench when shooting with a bipod. Not so much in the field.

Bob

This is how I do it also, I've also done a bipod and rear bag off the bench. Even with minor bipod hop, POI doesn't shift, accuracy is also consistent between the two. I do hunt with the bipod on, when in terrain that allows for prone shots. If a situation doesn't allow for prone, I shoot seated off sticks.