I've been wading thru various scope options. I simply can't afford to dump $1900 on a Nightforce. And I really didn't want a 31oz scope on a rifle.

I don't want or need FFP. And I have a Vortex that just stuck on me adding 3 MOA in elevation. I don't trust it.

The Mark 4 in 4.5-14 is more what I'm looking for. But it's hard to stay tuned to all the BS that's posted here about how the Leupold return rate is 66% a d what camp is Pro Leupold and what camp is Anti.

A Decade ago this was the premier optic for all LR shooting and SOGs.

Is it worth a schittt? And are they now made in China? Are the internals more robust? And is their MOA tracking "off" ?

Not made in China, they are rebadged hunting scopes- I.e. not improved erector systems, very often they have adjustment issues. A decade ago (a bit more actually) they were a top choice simply because their was nothing better. I'm guessing that by "SOGs" you mean Special Operations Groups, and if so- none of them use that scope any longer.

For what you've described the Nightforce SHV line would be a good fit.

I don't know, but I'll be testing one out shortly on a number of rifle reviews and will see how it fares.

I looked at SHV and agree but damn that 56mm is huge

Was more talking about the 42mm version.


What is the intended use?

I have a 4.5-14 LR m/t and it is very much repeatable enough for me. Optically, it ain't no zeiss. ...but I haven't broke it either. I am not a leupold fan boy either....look at the Bushnell offering as of late, pretty slick.

Buy the US Optic Scope they are the best

Trigger time and rounds on steel in 260 and 243. Potentially deer with same rifles. I want to improve my ability from the 500 to 800 yard range.

The new Bushy LRHS is on the short list. Love the new MOA option and zero stop. I really really don't want the FFP.

Same with the new Burris XTR II A 4-20 would be perfect. The 34mm tube and 31oz is a turn off. As is the FFP.

I asked a Mil question here last year. I am not willing to take that plunge at this time. Prefer to stay MOA.

I realize Buy Once, Cry Once. And the Nightforce NXS is pretty tough to beat as an All Around repeatable optic in MOA. Just too many life passions to spread the Cheese around.

Seems the Tac market has dictated the "Tactical Scope world" pace and offerings.

On the Nightforce SHV....I only see the 2-10X as on option with a 42mm obj. I really want a few more Xs than that. Too me, a 14X is about prefect for what I want.

I was shooting at 8" plates at 604 last week. With just a 9deg look angle, stock weld was an issue with a factory stock, and this was on a 44mm obj with a fair amount of math and effort to get the whole set up as close to the barrel as possible.

Which leads to Terry Cross cheek pieces, 20 weeks of wait for Manners to make me a stock.....etc.

Quite a production to simply burn powder and have fun.

I've sold all my Nightforces and went to Sightron SIII's, but these are on tactical rifles not hunting rifles. But, would the 6-24x50 work for you? 24oz, and I love the LR-MOA reticle for long range.

If not, the recent offerings from Bushnell Elite have been very very good.

He said he can not afford a 1900 NF, how can he afford a US optics?

The ATACR 4x16x42 would be nice but you will have live with the FFP.....

Aren't they also $2300 for an atcar?

They are the best when compared to Leupold, but fall behind S&B in low light by a considerable margin. I own both.

If I lived in the states,the only scope manufacturer I would consider would be swfa.You can't beat their value.A fixed 10x would be the first one I would pick up.

I run a fixed 10x sightron, on a tactical rig and have no issues banging steel out to 1000yards.

Really? I had one SIII a few years back and wouldn't put it close the the Nightforces I own - actually sold it to put towards my first Nightforce.

I sold a nightforce to go to SWFA and have never looked back. I have become a big believer in great clarity in binos and other observations devices but reliability of zero and adjustments override everything else in a scope. Im setting up a pair of rifles for the kids and will go with simple SWFA 10x for the .223 and a 6x for the .308 all with mil adjustments to match what I already run.

I can't imagine getting rid of an NXS in order to go to a SWFA

As for your China question, this is where 99% of the sheep get butt-hurt, or aren't specific. Leupy does not "Make" scopes at their factory in the communist republic of Oregon. They "Assemble" them there however. L.O.W. in Japan makes a good portion of their glass. Their tubes I am not positive, but get sourced from over seas as well.

Regardless of where it is from, Leupy sells good quality. If the 4.5-14 is your power range, but you are out of cash. Look at a Primary Arms 4-14 FFP. Think I posted it on shooters, anyway me and another gent went out and did some comparisons side X side with a Weaver, SWFA, and the PA.

People can dog all they want, the PA punches WAY above it's price range.

The tubes are formed and machined in house. As are the internal components (not glass) and the turrets.

I asked Leupold if my 2-7x28 Ultralight had Chinese glass and they responded that "we use has always been imported from overseas. In order for us to obtain the quantity that we need and the quality, this has always been our best option." Thus, it is directly implied that at least a portion of their product lines use Chinese glass.

I could tolerate Japanese glass, but I'd prefer not to support China

Good luck on that these days.

NO WAY?!?!?!?!



Travis

No, it implies they use overseas glass, just as stated.
Percentage I don't know, but some portion of the glass is LOW. Again what percentage I don't know, but they buy at least some of their tubes, and erector sets. They have for quite some time, the least costing of the erectors is why those of us who asked to change the turrets; got told to pound sand. Not all MK IV's are the same/same source.

I think now nightforce has the SHV out its going to displace the mark 4's and vortex pst's. I don't trust the vortex or the leupolds.

What experiences have made you lose trust in the Mk4's and Viper PST's? What was the nature of the failures?

LOW makes just about all the glass that schott doesn't in riflescopes.....I've heard that nightforce also uses LOW glass.

And Schott has glass factories all over the world, including in China.

Not to long ago, LOW made the entire Nightforce scope. I'd be willing to wager a bet that even though Nightforce is assembling scopes here now, that the parts are still made in Japan by LOW.

10X MD SWFA is stupid good for the money.

Depends on the model. The Compacts and F1's are made in the Idaho. Some of the original models have parts from Japan and are assembled in Idaho.

What parts of the scope are actually made by them ? Sourcing parts (any amount of them) from LOW is a good thing IMO.

Really. I'm not saying SIII's are better. IMO they are just as good at tracking and resolution is damn close. I compared a few of mine at our 600 yard benchrest matches and on average my 12-42 NXS and BR Nightforces could just barely resolve bullet holes (6mm) better than my 10-50 SIII's. I've had several SIII's and no mechanical issues. I mostly run 8-32's on my rifles, but have a couple 10-50s and 6-24s. One 6-24 FFP. One 1-7 on an AR.

My eyes just "work" with the floating dot of the LRMOA reticle in the SIII. It just seems to "settle" on my POA smoother than npr1, npr2, etc. I had a couple of the NP-2DD NXS's, but the retice isn't good for holds like the LRMOA.

The kicker is the SIII is 60% of the cost of the NXS, and sometimes money gets tight.

Again, I'm not using these for hunting, so take it for what its worth.

Thanks for the explanation!

I had that one SIII 6-24x50, and it had big black donut looking thru it and was very hard to focus - just wasn't happy, sent it to Sightron and got a rude letter back telling me it was perfect and i didn't know how to focus a scope, yadda yadda. So personally decided no more for me no matter the price or quality.

I'm a leupold fan for hunting rifles with no turrets but will not use Leupold for turning turrets. I've had too many issues with my MK4 3.5-10x40 related to tracking and repeatability. If I was to choose in your price point, I'd seriously look at the SWFA SS line.

Folks say @#&¥! Leupold, they have import components! Well they also have an assload of CNC lathes turning tubes in Beaverton (too many people) Oregon. For better or for worse Leupold is indeed an American company directly employing over 600 Americans. They've made an assload of scopes that have worked plenty well enough to help kill mega-assloads of game over the years. I'm buying SWFAs without regret though.

And all these people are using their made in China computers to do that crying...Most will never accept the real truths.

I have had a Mark IV for 11 years and only shot it a couple times. It has not worked out. It is too big. I shot a couple prairie dogs with it with the above 223.

I have a Sightron SIII that I like, but the turrets are too easy to turn.
I have another SIII that the reticle is too fine for my 64 year old eyes. Don't like that.

I have a USO, but it is first focal plane. I don't like FFP.

Most of my IOR scopes are FFP, don't like that.

I have Kahles, but the turrets are in 0.1 mils, ~~ 1/3 moa to me.

I have SWFA SS 20X that is so poorly manufactured, it is unusable.

I got a Bausch & Lomb in 1995 [still made as 3000 elite Bushnell] that has the same manufacturing defect as the SWFA SS, the lenses are out of alignment.

The scope I like does not cost much. Leupold VX3 3.5x10x40 CDS.
It does not have side focus or adjustable objective for reading mirage, but I am not that advanced as a long range hunter. I seem to shoot big game at dawn when there is little wind, and out to 500 yards.

I compulsively build rifles. I am lucky my prefered scope is cheap. I buy a lot of them.

What would be a right asking price for a roughly 10 year old, excellent condition Leupold Mark 4 6.5-20x50, with standard mil dot reticle?

Thanks

Appears they are roughly $1300 New at optics planet.