I have read posts for many diferent Ackley Improved calibers and it seems some have a better reputation that others.

Which ones work?

Also I see a lot of .243 AI's, 257 bob AI etc But cant remember a .308 or .358 AI...


Thanks

I always thought the 30/30AI was a big improvement.
The .250AI Savage just looks plain neat.
Wondering about a .308 winchester AI'd....

The more sloping the original case, and/or the more taper in the shoulder, the more improvement you get.

The 257 Bob or 7X57 or 300H&H? They blow out a lot more than a 35 Whelen, thus you get a larger increase in case capacity.

ask BrotherBart. he has all kinds of AI's.

also, you should check with TMR. he has a few.

There's more to AI's than case capacity though.

Many find the accuracy of the AI's to be superb, probably due to the solid headspacing on the shoulder and a more efficient shape of case.

All else running smoothly, like feeding and so forth, the cases do not stretch as much and therefore trimming and case life is extended.

To most, anymore, that may not be an issue. But, it could get that way.

I just reread an article about Ackley and his Improved and Wildcat cartridges today in the 1996 GunDigest. His personal favorite was the 250-3000 Improved. Many improved cases do not show a lot of velocity increase over the parent case, but do offer better case life, easier extraction and other mechanical advantages. I have a 257 AI in a Ruger 77, and it is very good, never had any problems.

Thanks for the info I wanted..

a accuracy difference and why (thanks AI_FOOL)

and on what makes some work better (thanks RickF)

22-250AI and 348Win AI are two of mine that are terrific. Above reasons mentioned by others fit in my explanations.

250AI is by far my favorite.

223AI, 250AI & the 7-08AI all show fairly good gains. I should be running my 243AI in a week or 2 so I'll see how good it is....

BTW: My 250 Ackley with 100 grn TSX has MV of 3310 fps. Not too shabby with no flattened primers or other pressure signs.....

22-250AI.

I have a 25-06AI and a 280AI both are well worth the money to me,both very accurate and deadly.

6mmAI yields an 11% gain in case capacity.

87 grain Vmax @ 3580fps!

Probably a 200 fps gain with this bullet over the parent case.

I have a 35 Whelen A.I. I don't know if I'd do that one knowing what I found later. There just isn't enough shoulder or case taper to improve.

With 250 grain bullets, I was never able to exceed the manual with my rifle (Rem. 700). I ran into sticky bolt syndrome. With 225 grainers, I was able to add an extra 10% or so of powder with no signs of undue pressure.

The Whelen A.I. seems like a lot of bother for little return. Now, a 22-250 improved might make a lot of sense. It cuts down of case stretching and moves you up into the 220 swift bracket.

The 30-30AI is a good cartridge which is obsolete with the coming of the 308 Marlin Express.
I have a 25-35 AI that is a Serious Improvement on the original case.

I have had:

17 Ackley Hornet AI
223 AI
22/250 AI
6/250 AI
243 AI
6 Rem AI(244 AI)
6.5 Rem Mag AI

All were extremely accurate and fast with the Fire Forming loads and formed loads. Case stretching was eliminated for all practical purposes.

I have a .280 AI and I love it. In addition to the increased velocity I really like the terrific accuracy and the fact that case trimming is almost nil.

X2,and exactly the same results with my .22-250AI as well! Monashee

Best Post: AI Fool

If you really want to understand Ackley Improved get the PO Ackley manual Vol 1 and read his articles about three times. I doubt anyone here has done that. Everyone is only concerned about velocity.

The most important thing about AI is the *way* it handles pressure. Every cartridge with heavy shoulder slope is like a torpedo against the boltface. The weakest part of the lockup. AI puts no pressure on the boltface. At ~63,000 psi the primer will fall out. You *probably* can not hurt your self. At the same time and for the same reasons recoil will be reduced.

With that in mind, everything AI works...

ALL of the AI's work equaly well and all acomplish their main goal of giving you more alphabet letters to use when talking about them. That's the main advantage, being able to say..."Shot him with my xxxAI, using an XYZP bullet behind so many grains of QRX powder in a SSIT rifle".

Other than that.....they have limited value. If you need more gun, buy one. Don't try to modify an inadiquite round to give it "magic" properties.

i built a 30-06 ackley with a 40 degree shoulder. gained a little over 100 fps.with the added benifit of less case trimming.
also have one in 223 .like it too.

Where you see the most improvement is in low pressure cartridges with long necks and lots of taper. Especially the rimmed cartridges such as the 30/40. With full blown treatment and shortened neck the 30/40 Imp can easily reach the old 300 H&H factory load velocities.

My favorites 257 & 280 are worthwhile because you are free to exceed SAMMI pressures limits over the original load. The only thing guaranteed is less case trimming. Some seem to produce ballistic anomalies or hit a sweet spot with certain powders that defy physics.

I like just about all of the improved cartridges and will do some more. I think if PO Ackley were around today, due to the over abundance of cartridges and improvements in gun powder, he would say save your money. He was a pragmatic and objective observer even if he was promoting his business. He did much to improve barrels, bullets and cartridges.

The 30-30 AI is probably the king. That or the 25-35 AI.

The 30-30 AI gives you a gain of 250 fps with 150 grain bullets. That's a 11.1% gain right at the velocity level that counts - from 2250 to 2500 fps. IMHO.

Gives you a 300 yard range - a big improvement over the standard round which most would agree is a 200 yard cartridge - some even say 150.

ETA: The other big one is the 22-250 AI - that really gets a boost - and its a real world gain for the varminters as it bucks the wind better, drops less and extends usable range.

Other rounds like the 30-06 and such get more velocity but it's at a level that doesn't really do much for the hunter in the real world. I mean, extending the usueful range from say 450 to 550 yards is not really real-world improvement for a big game cartride - not in my book anyway. And I don't see a real increase in "killing power" with another 1 or 200 fps once you get past 2600-2700 fps.

I was going to eventually re-barrel the Widow Maker Special from .308 Winny to 6 x 22.250. But maybe a 6 x 22.250 AI might be better for some of the reasons listed, better case life, reduced recoil, safety.

I am also told that a 6 x 47 Lapua is just about close enough to a 6 x 22.250AI to just go with a Lapua. What think you AI guys.

The only concern I have with a Lapua or an AI is magazine feeding from a Model 700 BDL short action.

The 6x250 AI is a good one. Ackely himself was very fond of the 250 Improved, with good reason. Should feed fine with minimal tweaking.

The 6x47 Norma, I have not even laid my hands on one but if they were problematic I don't think the high power shooters would use it. The other 6x47 mm on the 222 Mag. case requires a magazine and follower swap.

Thanks.

I've never heard of the 6 x 47 Norma. Is that similar to the 6 x 47 Lapua?

One of my guntrader friends picked up a Savage 99 in 250AI
for pretty cheap a couple of years ago. He took to a gunshow
a month or two later, and it sold lightning fast to the
first guy who looked at it. He tells me now that he wished
that he would have test fired it before he sold it.

Yep, 'cause the .30-30, the .250 Savage, the 6mm Remington, and every other cartridge that can be AI'd is wholly inadequate for hunting purposes.

Esp. those damned .300 and .375 H&H's. Worthless they are.......

I just skimmed over the previous posts and I didnt see anything about the .22 Hornet, it was a vast improvement going AI from what I have read in the past.

7x57 Ackley is very efficient.

I kinda feel like the fella that suggested that if one needs more, then one should start with more. But, we all know that need is not really the reason. That's cool with me though and I'm glad that people enjoy the labor. For me, it just seems like a pain in the azz. I'd rather put up with a little case stretching than run the risk of disrupting the way my rifle feeds. I'm not sure that the positive attributes of the AI process are chock-full of sustenance. That's just me.

I've only tried one, a .250 AI, and I think it was a DANDY round, another that I think of building again.

I was able to get 3400 w/ 75s, 3300 w/ 85s, 3140 w/ 100s, and 2900 w/ 117s. Pretty much a shorter .257 Roberts.

Feeding was no issue in any of the rigs I tried it in. I cannot say the same of my 25-284.

John

I have 2 AI's. I went to 22-250 AI because I was a 220 Swift shooter. Every other loading I was trimming, trimming, trimming...end of brass. I chose the 22-250 because the usable case capacity of the 22-250 AI seemed about perfect. The bottom line is my case prep is much easier, brass lasts about up to 15 relaodings. The second is a 280AI which lets me shoot a 162 grain Hornady @3000+ fps and a 139 Hornady @ 3200 fps. Easy to load, good accuracy, like all reloading... fun.

No case trimming is worth the cost of admission to me, as far as the remainder being time consuming, I never figured trigger time a bad thing.

Figure more time behind the trigger reaps benefits far and above spending an extra hour at the bench trimming.

According to Ackley himself, the 250 Savage, 257 Robts, and 7x57 Mauser (note that two are on the same case) were the only three cartridges that he felt justified improving...Got to give P.O. credit as he was honest with himself, and good for him..

OCC: I'm with you. The alleged advantages, to me, hardly seem worth the bother.If I want a 7x57 AI, I'll buy a 280

I never fell into a swoon over PO's stuff; it may have had relevance as ballistic experiments, intellectually stimulating...but when someone like Ackley tells me the 300H&H and 300 Weatherby are "inefficient" I say "...so what?..."Tell it to the elk across the canyon. The philosophy,carried to its' absurd and ultimate conclusion, sacrifices "performance" at the alter of "efficiency"....With a bull in the crosshairs on a $10,000 hunt, you think I'm gonna worry about 15 cents worth of powder?

If I want "efficient",I'll buy a 30BR.

OCC,

I am in complete agreement with you on the bother that the so called "K" or later 'improved' cartridges are. I met Lysle Kilbourn the inventor of the K-Hornet and other so called fireformed cartridges when he worked for Lymans in Middlefield, CT.

I got an early .219 Improved Zipper by the late Floyd Butler and while its been done perfect now that I have lived through it all with these so called 'improved' chambers I wish I had never had one cut out to the Ackely mode and I am stuck with 3 of them!

Well I am not really stuck with the Butler high wall. Thats such a nice rifle anyway.

BobinNH, and others of such ilkish thought


You are not a legitimate Rifle Looney.
And you certainly do not have an engineer's mindset about this topic.

The original question was what? Which AI cartridges work? It was not whether you felt like trimming, fireforming, spending $.15, etc.
Dogzapper? Where are You? I get all flushed and woozy just thinking about the sexiness of the 7x57 AI compared to my so so 280's.
Some cartridges are worth blowing out for a considerable gain in capacity. Most are not. The 7x57 is a legit candidate if one appreciates that particular size case. You fireform your 100 cases, relaxing like sewing and knitting, and you are through to spend less time than ever in reloading steps. Then, you have safer pressures, small SD's, velocity gains of 150 fps plus, accuracy with a custom chamber, etc.
The topic forum is, after all, CUSTOM RIFLES & WILDCATS, is it not?

What ones work?
I have a 223AI and a 250 Savage AI.
They do in fact motor...
At this point in time, I'm not real interested in a 257 Roberts AI. But, that can change. Kind of like the idea of a 7x57 AI though...
Had a 35 Whelen AI and that was the hugest fiasco I ever got involved with.. NEVER again.

I have 3 ai's 22-250,250 sav., and 257 Roberts ai.the 22-250 was made because the quick twist barrel was free and the others wwere because they were different.that said they all move pretty well and they are accurate.i use the 257 bob for deer and hogs and so far the others for varments. with a 55 gr bt the 22-250 gets 3700 fps and the 250 sav. imp gets 3200 with 75 gr. v-max bullets.as for having to fireforming you just get to shoot more and i can't see anything wrong with that.Good Luck

.280 AI and you can buy factory brass for it as well. It's common enough some of the semi custom makers offer it in their standard line.

If the AIs or other "improved" cartridges float your boat, go for it. The practical effect is minimal for the additional trouble. A case capacity increase of 10% - which is about what you get w/ these "improvements" - will yield about 2.5% increase in velocity. Period.

Some get more velocity increase than this in their AIs. They do this by increasing pressures.

A 30-06 AI will gain about 65 or 70 fps over the standard round, w/ 180 gr bullet.

The business of pressure disemination improvements is over blown as well - keep the chamber of a standard cartridge dry and it will do the same thing. The downside to reducing cartridge taper is the increased potential for a stuck cartridge in the AIs. There's a reason that the .375 H&H has significant taper - I've never hear of one being stuck - a nice characteristic of an African rifle on a hot day.

I will agree on the shoulder angle helping headspace. That is my rationale for liking belted cartridges - a 90-degree angle for more positive (and potentially tighter) headspace.

If the AIs fill you with love and euphoria, I'm with you. For me, if I want more velocity I get a magnum cartridge and see a real gain.

And the 30-06 AI is one that we mentioned as sometimes not being worth the trouble in regard to velocity gains (might luck up and get a fast barrel in the rebarreling ). Some others simply roar without exceeding safe pressures. If people want one for whatever reason, then why not. It's their dime. The 7 mm Sundra thingy hummed but was a genuine PIA to go through all the steps to get to the final case. It was unique and performed.

Again, this is the CUSTOM & WILDCAT WILDCAT WILDCAT WILDCAT forum. Throw back in the CUSTOM aspect and a better barrel with that AI does yield. The 280 AI's pressure tested by labs repeatedly make my 280's appear anemic, a spread so great it is like stepping up to a magnum.

Nobody is arguing to take one to Africa or possibly Alaska. I agree that would not be too wise on certain, but rare hunts. Some folks simply like to play with different rifles and cartridges and get off on every increase in performance or appreciate uniqueness in and of itself.

It is amazing how many ignorant people are on this subject. I saw significant gains in all the speeds, with extreme accuracy while fireforming. I have yet to use the full length sizer on my 243 AI, shooting the 70's at 3850 fps. I have worn out a dozen Hart barrels or more.

With the 244 AI, fireforming the 70's at 4050 fps will allow you to shoot the formed loads at 4150 fps with 1/4"-3/8" accuracy and only neck size.

I could go on and on with 223 AI, 22/250 AI.

You can lead some people to water, but you just can't make them drink.

The 6PPC, 22 PPC, 22 BR, 6 BR, and all Weatherby's are all a modified Ackley improved case...duhh huhh.....

No beef over the hair splitting accuracy of cartridges of the ilk you mention, nor that the AI may have some advantage in inherent accuracy.

My beef comes from a practical bent - velocity gain is marginal benefit compared to the impracticality of the conversion and subsequent use as hunting rifle. If that additional velocity is that big a deal, I'll get a much high capacity cartridge - standard cartridge - that I find in almost any gun shop or general store anywhere in hunting country.

If this isn't important to you, if the rifle is a back yard piece or target rifle, go for it. I'm all for you.

I own three AI calibers: 223 AI (there is no going back-3 of them now), 22/6mm AI (also known as the half mile 22 + AI), & 6.5x55 AI.

The 1:9 twist Savage runs 55 gr VMax at 3550 fps, 69 gr Sierra or Nosler HPBT's at 3300 fps, & 75 gr AMax's at 3150 fps. Accuracy is excellent.

The 22/6mm AI with 75 gr AMax's is nothing short of phenomenal on prairie dogs. I can safely run these bullets to 3850-3900 fps, but choose to run them at 3700 to prolong barrel life (don't know what the round count will be, but I don't want to find out either). Purchased this barrel late last fall to start going after long range prairie dogs. Only had time to work up some loads and do a couple of quick trips to prairie dog fields. At 400 yards, the AMax cuts the PD in half, sending the top 15-20 feet in the air, and tossing it backwards another 20 feet. Explosive is an understatement.

6.5x55 AI - my choice for long range work with no recoil and cheap brass. With the 40 degree shoulder, believe this is an excellent answer to the 6.5x284 in terms of prolonging throat life of the barrel. With 50 gr of H4831, it launches 142 gr SMK's at 2985 fps. One doe was harvest in the late season this year at 768 yards. There is only 3-500 yards left in this round with this bullet though.

All in all, VERY happy with all three. Have a spare barrel ready for the 22/6mm AI and another ordered for the 6.5x55 AI.

Cannot say enough about the 223 AI. For THE cheapest shooting, stock up on those 55 gr SP's from midsouth, add a charge of H4895 or Benchmark, and start taking PD's to 7-800 yards with no problem.

GF1

There is a gentleman here who lives knee deep in Brown bears. He guides and hunts with various wildcats for the bears. Remote, wet, frigid, and no stores for hundreds of miles. He posted here I believe just last week. They work reliably for him in different rifles, various action types, conditions, life threatening stuff, boring stuff.

The man's resume and experiences leave me, ah? awestruck. They are practical in giving him an edge he feels from vast experience is needed. He probably is scratching some itches, too.

I'm all for him, too, happy it works for him. Kicker is - would expect his success is not because he uses AIs, likely in spite of it. Must be sure we draw the right conclusions.

You are arguing with everyone who has, uses, and pursues Ackleys and wildcats, but also, every cartridge not on the following list whatever their motives, saying they should just get a 22 LR, 22-250, 257 Weatherby, 300 Weatherby, 375 H & H, and a 458 Win Mag and forget everything else, cause if one steps up to these cartridges I just named that cover all hunting, never any need for anything else. Or just say one can only hunt with a military cartridge as they will do it all, too-223, 30-06, and 45-70.

I prefer a Mercedes, blondes, Jack Daniels, P47's, Tempurpedic mattresses, Folgers Classic Roast, the color blue, capitalism, Elvis, the Apostle Paul, and the Abacos Island chain and the list could be endless for each of us to get there. I even know a fellow that doesn't like beaches and peace. Imagine.

Maybe a day when you have more time for them and you get the bug just to play with different cartridges. It can be as much fun as different rifles and hunting. It can be an excuse for more rifles and range time in adition to game hunting-varmint time, competition time, shooter interaction, etc.

Just go have fun whatever legal and wholesome, if there's time.

I just took a break from loading up a couple hundred 348AI rounds. I tested a few loads last Thursday and I am getting an honest 300fps gain vs. factory loads as the 348 had a boatload of case taper. 250gr Barnes Original style bullets at 2500fps and 200gr pills at 2700+. Improved version works terrific in my model 71 and to be sure I have cycled empty cases through this particular rifle. A great design well executed in the 30's as far as I can see. For me, the extra 300fps was worth it and then some. That my hard to find and expensive brass will last a lot longer is another plus as this rifle is a HOOT to shoot! I also shoot a 22-250AI and get similar excellent performance, have a 1950's wildcat in the safe called the 30 Belted Newton. An obsolete and difficult to load for rifle to be sure, but all of this adds up to a challenge for me and tons of fun. Might not be worth it to some, probably not to most, but that's OK for them. For a rubber room rifle nutball like me, it is all a labor of love. Good hunting, MARK

PS, I have and will again take wildcat cartridges to both Africa and Alaska. All part of the fun. Hope to soon take the 348AI and the 30 Belted Newton to both venues soon.

Zofko: Geez................I had to go back and see what I posted to merit such dinstinction

Oh yeah! Forgive me for my knuckledragging,Neanderthal approach to cartridge performance.....I bogged down quantitatively years ago,don't know how to use a slipstick,and always figured that if I wanted bullets to go faster I would buy a bigger case....I must have slipped a cog somewhere

I know that in the "whacky professor spectrum" of the rifle shooting universe,you cannot be considered a true rifle looney unless you perform many bizarre incantations over little brass bottles,spend a fortune on custom dies and barrels,and huddle over small fires in this parallel dimension with other like-minded souls,not arguing over the merits of a 150 gr 7mm bullet at 30350....but gleefully discussing how much ballistic necromancy it took to GET IT GOING at that speed...I must have lost my mind; I truly am not worthy

Since I've owned a number of 280's and managed to operate every one at about 3100 with a 140;and a greater number of 7 Rem Mags that (easily)pushed the same bullets at 3250-3300(burning 4-6 more grains of the same powder used in the 280),you'll forgive me if my dull wit and lack of imagination allows me to find room to squeeze the 280 AI in there???? .....Wait...I forgot.....I'm not doing it efficiently enough!!!...now I get it.

Seriously(if I can apply that description to the subject)I have messed with a couple of AI's which I suppose is what a 300 Weatherby really is,and have shot and helped do load development for the 375 AI;both cartridges are fabulous of course,as is the 280 AI. It is hard to argue that a 280 AI is not an excellent cartridge.....................but I can't help but wonder....if PO happened upon the "answer to all ballistic riddles".....how come it has taken 50-75 years for a factory to chamber ONE of them???? Or am I missing something?

I understand completely the joys associated with a new rifle,so if you get your jollies playing with case forming,anxiously awaiting new barrels, reamers,dies,exotic brass; drinking exotic Belgian Ales, and sneering contemptuously down your nose at "lesser" ballistic talents, all the while gaining not one whit of infield performance...BUT HAVING A GOOD TIME in the process,then I am ALL FOR YOU!

PLEASE, go and enjoy yourself...just don't look at me with a straight face and expect me to believe it Do we have a deal?

A couple of favorites of mine are the .260AI,6.5x55 BJAI and the 6.5/257 AI. Purty fair little cartridges!!

Ol' John

Whether it's worth it or not is a different question but my 223 AI gets ~250 fps more with 40-50 gr bullets than the standard 223 did in the same rifle. It's the combination of the rifle and the chambering that makes it worth it to me but may not be to the next guy I try to sell it to when and if I do.

I shoot 223 AI, 22-250 AI, 6mmAI, and soon 280 Improved. it is worth it to me for the reduced case stretch!

RobinNH GF1

If you don't like customs and wildcats, you could ask Mr. Bin to get rid of the particular Wildcat Custom forum because you have decided no else knows anything about these cartridges, you have deduced they are not worth anyone's time or trouble because you are an expert somehow.

That would be regardless of what engineers, gunsmiths, actual owners, competition shooters (they shoot evolving wildcats historically in the main) say. Some dangerous game, too.

Perhaps just stay away from this particular forum if they bother you so intensely. I don't tell people not to drive Fords, that I decided they were not worth the trouble, when they obviously did since they bought one.

I'm, also, for people making a living and one gunsmith just posted here he has more than he can do. That's great in this economy. I'm for all the folks moving product in the firearms industry and keeping people employed with standard factory, custom upscale, and gunsmithing trades of all types. These discussions actually sell rifles and satisfy customer wishes, sport, and needs. I'm not in the business but wish those that are well.

I think it's great you have found the cartridges you like.

Zofko, maybe you shoot quit drinking coffee and cut the sarcasm. I sure didn't say anybody who uses/likes the AIs if foolish, etc. I support, like you, anybody's interest in them and have yet to work a few similar wildcat projects myself in the next few years. I just have not seen them to be such a special lightning bolt that they make sense in a traveling serious hunting rifle; the practical downsides overpower the advantages, in my book.

But you can still fire factory ammo in them and that makes them nifty

Steelhead, that's a very good point. My 223 AI shoots standard 223 ammo MOA too though not quite as much so as the AI version. Although vel s a bit lower it seems like a win-win to me.

This was also true of the 375 Mashburn I had (case volume similar to the 375 Wby but with a sharp shoulder); it shot the H&Hs very well although in this rifle - a Ruger #1 Tropical - the POI at 100 yds changed dramatically.

Has anybody completed a 338 win-mag AI? Sure I could get a 340 roy but this 338WM-AI keeps me wondering.

Ted they do work some work better than others. I own 3 AI chamberings and with all of them the reason I decided to go with the AI version was because I was looking for a varmint gun with a Improved or slightly closer fitting chamber to neck dimension. It just so happends that the last 2 gunsmiths I dealt with had the reamers. for 25-06AI (I was wanting a barrel chambered for 25-06 at the time) 223AI same deal there. and lastly the one I am working on now 22-250AI. The reason for the 22-250AI is my hatered for crows, The 250 sends 50G bullets at 3950- 4000 fps and is very easy on the brass. In fact with a tight neck in this chambering you could get by with simply punching the primer out and reseating a new bullet. If I had to purchase the reamer with my own money I probably would not have gone the AI route but I am really glad I did. I currently have 2 targets with 10 shot groups out of my 223-AI that measure .113 and .119 They work. O

There are 4 things that I believe to be true about all things "AI":

1. I don't recall ever seeing the operating pressures published for any of the loads that POA cited in his books.

2. Many people who spend $$ to have an AI chamber cut and to buy AI dies blithely load to excess pressures so as to ensure that they achieve the higher velocities that they paid for.

3. The resale value of a rifle chambered for a wildcat cartridge is almost always less than that of an equal rifle chambered for a commerical cartridge.

4. The sharper shoulder and reduced case taper help to minimize case stretching and the need to trim as often.

Jeff

Lot of guys that have not had AI chamberings respond like they are experts on the subject. To those of us that have several AI's, these "experts" appear as they are, very ignorant on the subject.

I've owned a number of AI chambered rifles, still have some, and some of the finish reamers too. Which of my 4 points do you disagree with and why?

Jeff

These discussions are not a big deal as we can agree to disagree. We do need to remember there is more to Ackley�s cartridges than just Improved cartridges. There is also a great deal more to Ackley�s writing than just the Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders.
For an interesting discussion on the subject of Improved cartridges, pressure and Ackleys attitude on the subject look up these two American Rifleman articles:

�How Improved is it� by William F. Wieman, H.P. White Laboratory the American Rifleman, December 1953.

Then look for Ackley�s reply

'Improved' Cartridges by P. O. Ackley the American Rifleman,October 1954.

Gees,

one moment. Just let me look way back here in my cabinet...

It annoys me when someone suggests that I am ignorant about a topic upon which I've offered an opinion, based on direct experience, so I was asking Keith which of my 4 points did he find "ignorant" and why.

Where would I look these articles up?

Jeff

Old Willys,

Soon I will be making a 338-06 AI. I also know the 280AI & 25-06AI to be very effective and accurate. Obviously, you have to enjoy reloading and tinkering, etc. I think the 280AI is one of the most efficient cartridges in the AI line up. Many others are just not worth the effort IMO. You would have to read his book, etc. to get more info.

CLB

�Where would I look these articles up?�

Our public library has old Rifleman�s as bound volumes and older issues on micro-film. Some bound volumes of the Riflemen may be had by asking for an interlibrary loan.
Also Charles Landis three books: Woodchucks and Woodchuck Rifles,� and �Twenty Two Caliber Varmint Rifles� have quite a bit of information on Ackley Improved cartridges. �Hunting with the Twenty Two� has a chapter written by Ackley.
Most of us have quite a narrow view of Ackley and his work as we have read very little of his writing and the internet has distorted a great deal of his writing. Ackley wrote for his day and assumed we riflemen were reading his writing in the various books and periodicals of the day. I do not believe Ackley planned on leaving a lasting legacy of writing.
Quite a number of the Ackley Improved cartridges were instigated by Robert Hutton in the early 1960�s as Hutton searched for the �ideal� long range target cartridge. Few believe me but this was the goal behind the development of the 30-30AI.
Anyway, any discussion of P.O. Ackley is a lot of fun and he will be �cussed and discussed� long after I am gone and forgotten.

I have several Improved cartridges and three of them, the 22 KE-Hornet, 25-35AI and the 30-30AI provide a significant increase in killing power.
I have a 6.55 X 55 AI that does not provide much in the way of higher velocity but it is an interesting and fun cartridge to load for and shoot.


Edit] I had intended to point out there are two interesting on-going projects every rifleman should support. Fred Zieglen (sp?) of Z-Hat has an Ackley history project in motion. Ken Howell has a Homer Powley project in motion. These projects may help to add clarity to the works of two truly interesting men.