Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats AI 's which Ackleys work?

i built a 30-06 ackley with a 40 degree shoulder. gained a little over 100 fps.with the added benifit of less case trimming.
also have one in 223 .like it too.

Where you see the most improvement is in low pressure cartridges with long necks and lots of taper. Especially the rimmed cartridges such as the 30/40. With full blown treatment and shortened neck the 30/40 Imp can easily reach the old 300 H&H factory load velocities.

My favorites 257 & 280 are worthwhile because you are free to exceed SAMMI pressures limits over the original load. The only thing guaranteed is less case trimming. Some seem to produce ballistic anomalies or hit a sweet spot with certain powders that defy physics.

I like just about all of the improved cartridges and will do some more. I think if PO Ackley were around today, due to the over abundance of cartridges and improvements in gun powder, he would say save your money. He was a pragmatic and objective observer even if he was promoting his business. He did much to improve barrels, bullets and cartridges.

The 30-30 AI is probably the king. That or the 25-35 AI.

The 30-30 AI gives you a gain of 250 fps with 150 grain bullets. That's a 11.1% gain right at the velocity level that counts - from 2250 to 2500 fps. IMHO.

Gives you a 300 yard range - a big improvement over the standard round which most would agree is a 200 yard cartridge - some even say 150.

ETA: The other big one is the 22-250 AI - that really gets a boost - and its a real world gain for the varminters as it bucks the wind better, drops less and extends usable range.

Other rounds like the 30-06 and such get more velocity but it's at a level that doesn't really do much for the hunter in the real world. I mean, extending the usueful range from say 450 to 550 yards is not really real-world improvement for a big game cartride - not in my book anyway. And I don't see a real increase in "killing power" with another 1 or 200 fps once you get past 2600-2700 fps.

I was going to eventually re-barrel the Widow Maker Special from .308 Winny to 6 x 22.250. But maybe a 6 x 22.250 AI might be better for some of the reasons listed, better case life, reduced recoil, safety.

I am also told that a 6 x 47 Lapua is just about close enough to a 6 x 22.250AI to just go with a Lapua. What think you AI guys.

The only concern I have with a Lapua or an AI is magazine feeding from a Model 700 BDL short action.

The 6x250 AI is a good one. Ackely himself was very fond of the 250 Improved, with good reason. Should feed fine with minimal tweaking.

The 6x47 Norma, I have not even laid my hands on one but if they were problematic I don't think the high power shooters would use it. The other 6x47 mm on the 222 Mag. case requires a magazine and follower swap.

Thanks.

I've never heard of the 6 x 47 Norma. Is that similar to the 6 x 47 Lapua?

One of my guntrader friends picked up a Savage 99 in 250AI
for pretty cheap a couple of years ago. He took to a gunshow
a month or two later, and it sold lightning fast to the
first guy who looked at it. He tells me now that he wished
that he would have test fired it before he sold it.

Yep, 'cause the .30-30, the .250 Savage, the 6mm Remington, and every other cartridge that can be AI'd is wholly inadequate for hunting purposes.

Esp. those damned .300 and .375 H&H's. Worthless they are.......

I just skimmed over the previous posts and I didnt see anything about the .22 Hornet, it was a vast improvement going AI from what I have read in the past.

7x57 Ackley is very efficient.

I kinda feel like the fella that suggested that if one needs more, then one should start with more. But, we all know that need is not really the reason. That's cool with me though and I'm glad that people enjoy the labor. For me, it just seems like a pain in the azz. I'd rather put up with a little case stretching than run the risk of disrupting the way my rifle feeds. I'm not sure that the positive attributes of the AI process are chock-full of sustenance. That's just me.

I've only tried one, a .250 AI, and I think it was a DANDY round, another that I think of building again.

I was able to get 3400 w/ 75s, 3300 w/ 85s, 3140 w/ 100s, and 2900 w/ 117s. Pretty much a shorter .257 Roberts.

Feeding was no issue in any of the rigs I tried it in. I cannot say the same of my 25-284.

John

I have 2 AI's. I went to 22-250 AI because I was a 220 Swift shooter. Every other loading I was trimming, trimming, trimming...end of brass. I chose the 22-250 because the usable case capacity of the 22-250 AI seemed about perfect. The bottom line is my case prep is much easier, brass lasts about up to 15 relaodings. The second is a 280AI which lets me shoot a 162 grain Hornady @3000+ fps and a 139 Hornady @ 3200 fps. Easy to load, good accuracy, like all reloading... fun.

No case trimming is worth the cost of admission to me, as far as the remainder being time consuming, I never figured trigger time a bad thing.

Figure more time behind the trigger reaps benefits far and above spending an extra hour at the bench trimming.

According to Ackley himself, the 250 Savage, 257 Robts, and 7x57 Mauser (note that two are on the same case) were the only three cartridges that he felt justified improving...Got to give P.O. credit as he was honest with himself, and good for him..

OCC: I'm with you. The alleged advantages, to me, hardly seem worth the bother.If I want a 7x57 AI, I'll buy a 280

I never fell into a swoon over PO's stuff; it may have had relevance as ballistic experiments, intellectually stimulating...but when someone like Ackley tells me the 300H&H and 300 Weatherby are "inefficient" I say "...so what?..."Tell it to the elk across the canyon. The philosophy,carried to its' absurd and ultimate conclusion, sacrifices "performance" at the alter of "efficiency"....With a bull in the crosshairs on a $10,000 hunt, you think I'm gonna worry about 15 cents worth of powder?

If I want "efficient",I'll buy a 30BR.

OCC,

I am in complete agreement with you on the bother that the so called "K" or later 'improved' cartridges are. I met Lysle Kilbourn the inventor of the K-Hornet and other so called fireformed cartridges when he worked for Lymans in Middlefield, CT.

I got an early .219 Improved Zipper by the late Floyd Butler and while its been done perfect now that I have lived through it all with these so called 'improved' chambers I wish I had never had one cut out to the Ackely mode and I am stuck with 3 of them!

Well I am not really stuck with the Butler high wall. Thats such a nice rifle anyway.

BobinNH, and others of such ilkish thought


You are not a legitimate Rifle Looney.
And you certainly do not have an engineer's mindset about this topic.

The original question was what? Which AI cartridges work? It was not whether you felt like trimming, fireforming, spending $.15, etc.
Dogzapper? Where are You? I get all flushed and woozy just thinking about the sexiness of the 7x57 AI compared to my so so 280's.
Some cartridges are worth blowing out for a considerable gain in capacity. Most are not. The 7x57 is a legit candidate if one appreciates that particular size case. You fireform your 100 cases, relaxing like sewing and knitting, and you are through to spend less time than ever in reloading steps. Then, you have safer pressures, small SD's, velocity gains of 150 fps plus, accuracy with a custom chamber, etc.
The topic forum is, after all, CUSTOM RIFLES & WILDCATS, is it not?

What ones work?
I have a 223AI and a 250 Savage AI.
They do in fact motor...
At this point in time, I'm not real interested in a 257 Roberts AI. But, that can change. Kind of like the idea of a 7x57 AI though...
Had a 35 Whelen AI and that was the hugest fiasco I ever got involved with.. NEVER again.

I have 3 ai's 22-250,250 sav., and 257 Roberts ai.the 22-250 was made because the quick twist barrel was free and the others wwere because they were different.that said they all move pretty well and they are accurate.i use the 257 bob for deer and hogs and so far the others for varments. with a 55 gr bt the 22-250 gets 3700 fps and the 250 sav. imp gets 3200 with 75 gr. v-max bullets.as for having to fireforming you just get to shoot more and i can't see anything wrong with that.Good Luck