When did Savage change the length of the "tang" on 99?

Remember that nice looking stock for a Savage 99 recently on GB? I paid top $ for it but hey, how often does one find a factory stock, without pistol-grip, with matching forend, for sale, regardless of the price? So I bought it thinking I would put it on my primo 99 serial number 10,000 in .303 Sav. So I am down in my gun-room and guess what? The tank is about an inch shorter on this old model 99. It has the cocking indicator in the top of the breech-bolt, so it may well be a modified 95, but the internet says it is a 99, built in 1899. So I kept the old stock on it, which is not that bad but my plan is shot in the a--. Can anybody tell me when this physical change happened? I was under the impression that no dimensional changes took place since the inception of the 1895 (except for cocking indicator and other minor changes). Thanks.

Murray

They shortened the tangs at the 90,000 mark, give or take a couple digits.

The tang on my newer models are all "longer" than the tang on my 99 with the 10,000 serial number.

Maybe I got that backwards, but I know the switch was at 90,000.

You would think a guy with as many 1895's as I have would at least get that one correct.

Your first response is correct.

That's what I thought, then I second guessed myself.

Old age is creeping up on me at 44 years old, but I don't mind cause my oldest daughter just brought me home a peanut buster parfait from DQ so getting old ain't all that bad.

Lightfoot, the older 99 that I have with a 10,000 serial number, has a shorter tang than anything newer that I have. So the initial response by "Mad Dog" must be opposite of what the situation is. Please confirm. Thanks, Bob

I'm thinking that nice stock on GB that you paid top $ for is a bit screwed up.

No, its right on as I put it on another 99 and it fit fine. The 99 that I have with a 10,000 serial number on it has a tang that is shorter than all my others, all of which are newer than it. If you have an old 99, prior to 10,000 serial number, hold it along side a newer model and you will see that the older 99 has a shorter tang. It was news to me. I appreciate your input. Bob

I just put 5898 up against 926XXX and the 1895 tang is longer.

Wow. Well, now I am seriously confused. I am traveling on business this week but when I get home I will post a photo of my 99 with the 10,000 serial number, next to one of my other 99's (all of which are somewhat newer than the 10,000 model) and will be interested in your comments. Thanks. Bob

Just to throw some terms out that might help to keep the discussion clearer....

Serial numbered rifles under 10.000 == Savage 1895
Serial number rifles from 10.000 to 220,000'ish == Savage 1899
Serial number rifles above 220,000'ish == Savage 99

A 10.0xx rifle should definitely be a model 1899, I don't think we've identified any receivers made at Marlin that has an 1899 serial number.

So you have a very early 1899, which you can't fit a later stock onto.

Quick measuremens:
1895 receiver 464x has the tang extending about 3.15" back from the sides where the side panels would hit.
1899A SR receiver 10.7xx is 3.15".
1899A receiver 46.0xx is 3.15".
99T receiveer 350,xxx is 3.02".
99F receiver 936,xxx is about 3.02".

This correlates pretty good with what I've heard, which is that there was only about a 1/8" change at 90.000. As Joe said.

Pictures of your receiver are definitely in order, with a measurement if you can.

Will do. I get home late Friday night but as soon as I wake on Saturday, I will post some photo's and some measurements.
Thanks for the input!

two possibilities ,
one previous owner ground it down to shorten
2 somebody at the factory screwed up and they built it anyway
3 somebody in R+D thought a shorter tang would not precipitate as many tang cracks ,,,,

ya I know I said 2

norm

My apologies to Ralph. After a phone conversation with Steve in IL, he explained to me the substantial size differences between an old 1899 and a 70's era 99. Until I took this new stock, that would not even get close to fitting my 1899 regardless of fine tuning, I would not have believed there was such a huge difference in dimensions. I took this replacement stock and put it on a 70's era 99 that I have, and it fit perfectly. I will now call Ralph and apologize to him for my comments. Frustrating. I really thought I was being swindled.

Can somebody tell me how to attach a photo to this forum? I tried to copy and paste, that does not work. I can't find anything that will allow me to attach a picture. Thanks.

Are you trying to tell me you met one of Ralphs reserve prices?

Don't believe it.....

I know I over paid but I really wanted this.

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

I know I over paid but I really wanted this. Too bad he is not standing behind it. Odds are that he knew it did not fit when he sold it as he has many, many, Savage 99's.

EVERy Stock will Not Fit the Same Even if You Have a Gun Made in the Same Year, From My Understanding and Have Been Told, Ever Stock was Hand Fitted to the Gun. You Just Don't Buy Em and Expect to slap them on. Never Worked That Way on Savage 1895's, 1899's and 99's

I Have done 7 Savages and all a Tad Different.

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

I need to stop going into my gun room late at night. You guys were right about the tang length. The tang on my 99 did not change v/s other years. It ends up that I bought a stock that was made wrong, and paid through the nose for it. I rationalized this to myself because just how many brand new savage 99 straight stocks, in 2 piece matching sets, are ever put up for sale? This piece looks factory btw. Will try to attach a photo, not sure if this site will let me do that easily though. Basically, the sides of the stock, (the tennons???) are too short, making the tang look too long, which it is not. So I sent a photo and explanation to the guy I bought it from on Gunbroker. He is an older guy, long time 99 collector, named xxxxxxxxxx. On Gunbroker he goes by the name of xxxxxxxxxx Seemed like a nice enough guy, until I called him this morning. After hearing my story he said, "well I can't be held responsible if it does not fit". "Really"? I said. "You sold this stock as fitting a savage 99, and it doesn't. I am sending this back to you and I want my $415 back". Too bad I paid with a check. A situation like this, when dealing with somebody whose reputation is not worth much leaves one in a weak position. Frustrating. Suggest that each of you NEVER buy anything from xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thanks for all your input.

So Yo Bought a Stock For a 99 Saddle Gun for 1970's and Expect it to fit a 1899 Savage, ain't Gonna Happen. 2 Different Animals.

A lot of us on this forum know Ralph pretty well. He is not known for low prices or sensitivity but he is certainly no crook either.

You apparently bought a stock set for a post 1 million saddle gun and expected it to fit a pre million action. Did you ever ask any questions before doing that?? Did you contact him within 3 days of receiving the set? Shame on you...

Originally Posted by 1899sav

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

I need to stop going into my gun room late at night. You guys were right about the tang length. The tang on my 99 did not change v/s other years. It ends up that I bought a stock that was made wrong, and paid through the nose for it. I rationalized this to myself because just how many brand new savage 99 straight stocks, in 2 piece matching sets, are ever put up for sale? This piece looks factory btw. Will try to attach a photo, not sure if this site will let me do that easily though. Basically, the sides of the stock, (the tennons???) are too short, making the tang look too long, which it is not. So I sent a photo and explanation to the guy I bought it from on Gunbroker. He is an older guy, long time 99 collector, named Ralph McElwain. On Gunbroker he goes by the name of rfm.savage99. Seemed like a nice enough guy, until I called him this morning. After hearing my story he said, "well I can't be held responsible if it does not fit". "Really"? I said. "You sold this stock as fitting a savage 99, and it doesn't. I am sending this back to you and I want my $415 back". Too bad I paid with a check. A situation like this, when dealing with somebody whose reputation is not worth much leaves one in a weak position. Frustrating. Suggest that each of you NEVER buy anything from rfm.savage99 on Gunbroker. Thanks for all your input.

So Yo Bought a Stock For a 99 Saddle Gun for 1970's and Expect it to fit a 1899 Savage, ain't Gonna Happen. 2 Different Animals.

Are we still talking about a 1" difference as pointed out in the OP?

Removed.

I have 70's era 99's and I bet the stock on one of those will fit my early 99 close enough that it can be modified to fit. Well, this is edited. It did fit the 70's era 99, like a glove. I would never have believed that there would be such a size difference. Crow tastes awful.

99FEVER, are we still talking about 1"?

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

The stock is far from being able to fit ANY savage 99. No, I got the stock and did nothing with it for a couple of weeks. If it was close, no problem. I would pay for it to be modified but there is NO way this stock will fit any Savage 99 as it is just too far off. xxxxx screwed me and he knows it. Somebody please tell me how to post a photo here and you will see for yourself.

I guess you can't f--ken read or understand all stocks will vary some what with savages 1895's, 1899's and 99's they all were hand fitted. the tang maybe a few thousands wider or longer or thicker, etc etc,
i've seen it, i've replaced it, done it.
You bought a stock for a post mill rifle, not a f_cken 10,000 early 1900's 1899.

Tell me how to post a photo and you will see that this is not ever going to fit ANY Savage 99, regardless of the year.

Removed.

You need to deal with Ralph. This is not the place to be whining about your poor decisions.

99FEVER, in your original post you said it was an inch off. Is it?

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

And then I will post a photo of this same stock on a 70's era 99, and it won't fit that one either, not even close. Thanks for the nice attitude. Possibly its YOU who can't f-in read? Do you act this way in person or only when you are behind a keyboard? Who acts like that?

Hey, not have to act this way on a keyboard, i will tell ya in person.
Or you can call me to 630-569-2193,,, the stock set is right for a saddle gun, and will require minor fitting.
your expecting to by wood, and slap it on a savage, never happen and never will, all take a bit of fitting, even if wood is for same generation.

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

The tank is about an inch shorter on this old model 99.

Originally Posted by mad_dog

I'm thinking that nice stock on GB that you paid top $ for is a bit screwed up.

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

No, its right on as I put it on another 99 and it fit fine. The 99 that I have with a 10,000 serial number on it has a tang that is shorter than all my others, all of which are newer than it. If you have an old 99, prior to 10,000 serial number, hold it along side a newer model and you will see that the older 99 has a shorter tang. It was news to me. I appreciate your input. Bob

Bob, do you have the slightest clue?? Please read what you posted on this earlier. Should you be taking some meds you have misplaced?

Originally Posted by Fireball2

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

The tank is about an inch shorter on this old model 99.

Originally Posted by Fireball2

99FEVER, in your original post you said it was an inch off. Is it?

AGAIN He has a 1899 in the 10,000 serial range, not a 99 in the 1 million plus,,and SAVAGE's did not have a tank

AND WHAT THE F__k ya think is going to Happen, Nada!Not going to work.

And He Bought a STOCK SET for a 99 A SADDLE GUN> it gives the years made for 1973 plus, not f'ken 1900 plus.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=390256016

AGAIN 2 different animals, and he can't get it through his fin thick head, J.F.C.

And When he has done as much wood as i have or redone guns then tell me i'm full of Shiz.

Not directed at you Steve, but reminding the OP that he claimed he was an inch away from a fit. He has ignored answering that. Here's the stocks in the auction link you just provided. They're not an inch off.

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

I have 70's era 99's and I bet the stock on one of those will fit my early 99 close enough that it can be modified to fit. This one is just too far off and will never fit. Its a defect and will NEVER fit any Savage 99. SHAME ON YOU for not asking to see a photo before you took a position.

I don't have to ask to see a photo' i seen the set sold, i seen the st in person years, back, send me your address moron, i'll send ya the 400.00 dollars and prove to you it will go on a 1970's saddle gun, with minor fitting, then when i'm done showing you, i'm gonna personally deliver that stock and shove up your arse, free of charge.

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

No, its right on as I put it on another 99 and it fit fine. The 99 that I have with a 10,000 serial number on it has a tang that is shorter than all my others, all of which are newer than it. If you have an old 99, prior to 10,000 serial number, hold it along side a newer model and you will see that the older 99 has a shorter tang. It was news to me. I appreciate your input. Bob

Am I the only one who read this??

Originally Posted by Lightfoot

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

No, its right on as I put it on another 99 and it fit fine. The 99 that I have with a 10,000 serial number on it has a tang that is shorter than all my others, all of which are newer than it. If you have an old 99, prior to 10,000 serial number, hold it along side a newer model and you will see that the older 99 has a shorter tang. It was news to me. I appreciate your input. Bob

Am I the only one who read this??

NO!Your not the Only one, I have read it,, and again he does not have a 99 in 10,000, It's a 1899!
and he does not understand there is a difference between a 1899 and 99,,

and if Savage made a 99 back in the 1900's news to me.

MAybe he should by a Murrays and Start Reading a Bit.

What I want to know is when we can expect delivery of our Savage brand tanks?
I got some property that needs clearing before the ticks come out.

Originally Posted by Fireball2

Not directed at you Steve, but reminding the OP that he claimed he was an inch away from a fit. He has ignored answering that. Here's the stocks in the auction link you just provided. They're not an inch off.

HE Bought the RIGHT Stock Set For the Right Gun In that ERA!
Which was Made for 1970's
[Linked Image]

He's Got a 1899 in 10,000 serial range, that he keeps calling a 99, if he did not ask the seller questions. and pulled the trigger than shame on him, for THE MORON SAYS one time it won't fit any 99's and in another time he says it does and and the tang is shorter. It's flat out wrong to go bashing the seller
when you don't research and ask and know W.T.F. you got or looking for!

Removed.

Doesn't matter, but I had a 303 carbine with 99A wood. Parted the gun, kept the wood. Top tang cutout 3.012".

My apologies to Ralph. After a phone conversation with Steve in IL, he explained to me the substantial size differences between an old 1899 and a 70's era 99. Until I took this new stock, that would not even get close to fitting my 1899 regardless of fine tuning, I would not have believed there was such a huge difference in dimensions. I took this replacement stock and put it on a 70's era 99 that I have, and it fit perfectly. I will now call Ralph and apologize to him for my comments. Frustrating. I really thought I was being swindled. You are all now free to take shots at me for my comments. Sorry for wasting space on here.

Originally Posted by 99FEVER

Tell me how to post a photo and you will see that this is not ever going to fit ANY Savage 99, regardless of the year.

"BOB" 99FEVER
1st Off nice that you called me and vented., 2nd off i'm glad the stock fit. No Need to apologize to me. I think you need to apologize to others ,happy it to see we all can admit we make mistakes. I will remove Ralphs Name from the Quotes, etc
Feel Free to call any time. Pleased to make your acquaintance.
Steve

We are here to learn. As many of us have found over the years, education does not come cheap.

Originally Posted by Rick99

We are here to learn. As many of us have found over the years, education does not come cheap.

Boy howdy.

Originally Posted by Fireball2

What I want to know is when we can expect delivery of our Savage brand tanks?
I got some property that needs clearing before the ticks come out.

Roy
When's Tick Season by you.
I'll Load up my Panzer, with Duel Modified 30 Cal Savage's On them. Should do the trick!

You May need more than 1 Box of Ammo!

Nice deer rig there Steve! But could I get one with twin 250-3000's? I find them to work better for deer...

BTW, did anyone tell you the other one is sticking into the wall???

I just got around to the forum again. I read some of the posts, but skipped a large portion on this thread. The tangs were not shortened or lengthened on the 99's. The back of the receiver was lengthened slightly, giving it that appearance. I have used newer stocks on older rifles by removing more wood from the tang recesses. I had come in to a deal with a bunch of Herter's aftermarket stocks years back and remember doing that with at least two. Simple to check: Place an older rifle (My guess is pre 90,000) right next to a newer rifle. The OVERALL (Front of the barrel ring to back of tang) length of the receivers are the same. Now look where the back of the receiver is on both. The older one is shorter.