I have always been under the impression that the all too common tang crack that is too often seen on a 99, was from a mis-fitting stock, and recoil. In discussing this with a friend who does a lot of work on the 99 stocks, I learned that (in his opinion) many, if not most of these cracks come from the gun being dropped or bumped sideways, not from recoil. I must say that after going over this in my head, his explanation seems to makes sense, given the thin wood structure on the side of the tang. Your thoughts are appreciated. Going foreward, I will never put any of my 99's in a soft case and lay them across the back seat floor of my vehicle, teetering over the drive shaft bump.

Could be the same reason certain shotguns get the same crack.

Probably lots of factors with over tight butt stock/thin wrist contributing to many. Any type of bonk could exacerbate the problem.

The tang on a 99 (and any other gun that has a tang) is nothing but a steel wedge being driven into the wood every time a shot is fired.


Mike

While that is true, the Savage 99's get this crack far more often than other guns. It has even been named the "Savage Crack". While I love this gun design, I do think the wood in the tang area is so thin that its design contributes to the too often seen tang crack.

I have to say when I first read the title of this topic I thought it was going to some OT subject about plumbers. I think cracks are caused by all of the above as well as inherent weakness in wood as a medium for making stocks.

As a carver, I have fortified quite a bit of material, such as wood and antler, with extremely viscous cyanoacrylate. I wonder if a person could do the same with the wood pores on a 99 stock in order to stop/prevent the cracking.

The "crack" is what it is. It is SO common, that I don't give it a ton of attention. If it's just a "run of the mill" gun when I pick it up and it's cracked, I just put it back down and move on. If the gun is something I want to fill a hole in one of my safes, then I might buy it anyhow. Having what you are looking for, cracked or not, is better than not having it. The other thing, the seller HAS to realize that the "crack" is going to cost him something. NONE of the guns I own that have the Savage crack has gotten any worse from shooting.

Good point, LBK. A lot, if not all, cracks I see are ancient. It would indeed seem that they tend to crack initially, and the stay that way forever without getting much worse, unless some additional trauma takes place. I personally subscribe to the "tangs acting as wedges" theory, being driven back into the head of the stock through recoil and stock bolt over-tightening. Solution? Don't over torque the bolt, and reduce the gun's consumption of full throttle factory loads. (Low velocity handloads give the same amount of fun- if not more- and are cheaper and easier on the gun and shooter both.)

How about a thin rubber washer between stock and receiver?

Taking this subject to the next level, do any of you attempt to repair these cracks or just leave them alone? I've seen methods for gently spreading the crack open and inserting an adhesive etc etc, but do these work or just make the appearance even worse? I've been fortunate that only one of mine has the dreaded "Savage Crack", a nice 250 EG with a Stith mounted scope, which I don't want to mess up so I've left it alone.
yooper

Sayak LBK , Gnaohhh I think you are all right on , the other factor after laying on there side on a hump or under a heavy weight is any rifle that has been in a saddle scabbard has that
potential as well as horses love to rub and nothing gets in there way I have used the crazy glues with much success, but they should be ones that can deal with oil and grease. they do flow well into a crack and can be worked so that the glue is coming out of the finest part .

norm

generally if I buy a gun with the crack I will repair it ,if you oil the stock with the crack oil gets where it don't belong if you don't fix it and stock drys out it can crack some more or water and dirt invades the crack as well.

I have taken stocks that are in 2-4 pieces and put them back together, they may not always be pretty but are funional and I use them for hunting ,, after all they are original

norm

[quote=gnoahhh]... Solution? Don't over torque the bolt, .../quote]
How tight is too tight?

I don't have a clue as to exact torque specs (it would probably vary from gun to gun anyway). I just snug it up so there's no play in the stock. Firm but not tight like you're tightening a lug nut.

But I always crank my lug-nuts until they squeeke. . .

My latest Savage crack is compliments of the shipping gorillas. Thanks, it survived 50 years until you got it.

Yep. The way the 99 stock was designed it doesn't handle side to side stress very well. Often poorly packaged rifles endure such stress and you seem to have gotten the benefit of that.

I get a savage crack at the end of a week long moose hunt.

seems you've been in the same moose camps as me!LOL

Yup, but this can help:
I soothes the savage crack quite well.

Hello from BC Canada.
I'm new here but have been collecting 1899's and 99's for several years.
Looking forward to sharing info with other 99 collectors.

The savage 99 crack can be prevented by removing the buttstock, making a brass shim and bending it around the recoil lug on the lower tang.
Drill a hole for the stock bolt to pass through, and put it all back together.
When done right this will provide relief in the upper tang, so the wood and metal is not making contact any more.
I'll try and post pics here in a few days.

After what I have learned, any 99 that I purchase will be shipped with the stock removed.

Id be interested in seeing how that is done EG. Please post pic.

Welcome to the forum.

Happy Easter to all the Christian Savages.

Me thinks the 'savage crack' might be when you finally lose your mind from pursuing and collecting, diagnosing, and categorizing/identifying.

What happened to old man Johnson???
Oh...he savage cracked.

When I get home to my computer in a few days I'll show how to do it in detail.

I resemble that remark !!!

I've requested that, but so far no one wants to do it. They think you're some kind of kook for even thinking of it.

Me personally, I'm not sure I'm buying into this. I believe it's sideways trauma. A fall, a horse, shipping, etc. That's why so many guys say the crack never gets worse after decades of shooting.

I have one set of stocks that were pounded so hard by recoil at the lower tang the wood pushed up into a small gap at the tang and now there is a little tit of wood sticking out. This stock, even though the "wedge" tangs were driven backwards into the wood 1/16" on the lower tang, has no tang crack.

It just makes too much sense that it's sideways trauma.

Look at the grain in the wood. The straighter the grain, the more apt it is to crack. Study examples of cracked stocks. Make note of the grain structure. You guys are making WAY more out of it then need be.

Welcome the to campfire, EGSavage. I've heard of guys making shims for the lower tang before. Seems like it would work as well as the suggestion to remove a tiny bit of wood on the upper tang. Goal is to move the recoil pressure to the side panels and lower tang - both of which are less likely to crack.

And +1 to LBK.. though I think it's several factors. Orientation of the grain is a big one, plus how tight the stock is, plus how much pressure is on the upper tang versus the side panels and lower tang, plus how often it's fired.

Prove to me you know why Savage cracks happen.

I don't care WHY they happen any more than I CARE why a screw strips. Some do some don't.

Knowing why is the best way to avoid it.

One always wants straight grain in the wrist of a stock, preferably flowing through the contours of the design. Straight grained wood is the strongest wood and resists torsional and lateral forces best. Show me a rifle stock with fancy grain or swirly grain running into the wrist and I'll show you a stock that will break sooner or later unless its owner exercises inordinate care in its use.

I think what LBK is saying is correct as far as it goes, in terms of fore-and-aft splitting. Think of an analogy being when you split chunks of firewood- the straight grained knot free pieces split straight and easy, the ones with squirrelly grain or a big knot resist splitting and require multiple whacks (or some creative cussing). Which brings us back to the original discussion: wood that is best for other more important reasons (ie: strength in the wrist) may well be our undoing crack-wise IF the precepts mentioned by various contributors above aren't acknowledged.

If your roof leaks would you want to know why?
Car quits?
Shoes give you a blister?
Shirt rubs you on the neck?
Maybe it's all yes and no, does and doesn't for you. I'm a why guy.
Why are bears here or there at that time of the year? What are they doing?

Or the two most asked questions of our time, right after why do Savages crack-
Why are the coma-inducing tan and silver Toyota Camry's so prevalent?
Is it because buyers want them, or because that's what's offered from Toyota?

Or as Henry Ford said, "Give them any color they want, so long as it's black."

I always heard at deer camp that it was ex-Marines butt stroking a deer to finish it off.

EGSAVAGE
This advice you give works well, it was talked about years back on a post.,
Thanks for bringing it up.
steve

Sideways trauma may certainly be the cause of some 99 cracks, but from what I've seen, at least half of all 99's have a tang crack, so they all couldn't have experienced sideways trauma.
If you remove the buttstock, you'll see that there isn't much wood at the upper tang.
I believe there is more than one contributing factor, wood grain, stock bolt working loose, wood that has dried and shrunk over the years, improper inleting from the factory, etc

By making a brass shim (about the same size as the recoil lug) to ensure the recoil lug is transferring the recoil to the lower tang, where there is much more wood, then it makes sense that most cracks will be avoided.

I own about 25 99's and have owned over 40 over the years,
Since I started using shims , no more cracks!

As I mentioned, I'll have pics posted here when I get home on Thursday.

All things considered a "Savage crack" is much better than a "plumber's crack."

... or a "wise crack."

As everyone here already knows, the Savage 99, unlike other lever guns, is hammerless, with a rotary magazine.
Because of the way the bolt works, there isn't much wood in the tang area.

That, combined with other factors such as the stock bolt working loose, wood drying out and shrinking over time, direction of wood grain in the tang area, oil soaked wood, and improper inletting from the factory, can result in the tang cracking from repeated firing.

Here is a way to prevent the majority of Savage 99 tang cracks, or stopping an existing crack from spreading.......

I didn't develop this method myself, but having tried it with good results, I've decided to post it here with pics to help out anyone who might be interested.

Basically you have to remove the buttstock and shim up the recoil lug on the lower tang.
When done right, this will allow some relief on the upper tang where the wood meets the metal.

Remove the butt plate and insert a 10" long flathead screwdriver to remove the stock bolt.

Be careful when removing the stock, make sure the screwdriver is not between the bolt head and the wood as this could cause a crack.

I use brass shim stock, (usually comes in rolls, from machine shops or tool supply shops)
Cut it to the right size using good quality tin snips and finish it off using a cutting wheel on a Dremel tool.
Bend it around the recoil lug so it fits in snugly between there and the wood.

Drill or punch a hole in the brass shim so the stock bolt will pass through.

Trim and taper all edges with a Dremel tool with the stone bit attachment.
make sure there are no sharp edges, steep edges, or burrs.

Make sure the shim is thick enough to provide the necessary relief on the upper tang, but not so thick that you can't bend it around the lug,
about .050 mm (correct to .020mm) thick seems to work fine for me.

Put the buttstock on and tighten everything back up.

If anyone needs any more pics or info, or has anything else to add, feel free to contact me..


The classic Savage model 1899, a 1914 SRC in 30-30...
(matching numbers)

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The Savage model 99 tang area that's prone to cracking...

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Savage 99 recoil lug....

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my homemade brass shim....

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Brass shim bent around the recoil lug...

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Brass shim fitted into the lower tang of the buttstock...

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Buttstock re-installed, now with relief at the upper tang provided by the brass shim...

[Linked Image]

Lower tang with shim in place between the recoil lug and stock...

[Linked Image]

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1940 Savage 99EG in 303 Savage, ready to shoot with no worries of the tang cracking....
Maybe I'll take a deer with it this coming season!

[Linked Image]

That's quite a bit of relief, definitely should be safe from Savage cracks.


Nice looking EG, checkered and in 303 Savage isn't that common.

Thanks,

your right that's a lot of relief, I don't think I had it tightened up all the way when I took the pic. That picture is actually of a '51 EG in 250-3000.

I believe 22 inch barrel EG's were only available for the first 5 years or so, and only with checkering around 1940.
I've got two real nice ones, a 30-30 and this one in 303, their serial numbers are only about 100 apart, I found them both in Alberta from different collectors about a year apart!

20mm would be over 3/4 inch thick. Did you mean 20 gauge (.032" = 1/32")?

Seemed like a lot to me too. I've used 0.010 shim stock for this.

Oops, your right, my mistake, it's .020 mm.
I'll update the post, thanks.

welcome to the forum , got some nice guns there ,I would be interested in the serial numbers of your 30-30 and 303 EGs from the fortys I have one in the 439xxx range and one in 300 at 446xxx,

PM me if you don't want it public .

where in BC are you from, ? I was am from Victoria

norm

The serial # for the 30-30 is 392742,
The serial # for the 303 is 392604,
Both are 1940 99 EG's with factory 22" barrels.
Both are in high condition.

For those that don't have brass shim stock handy, shims made from plastic shotgun shells work too. I like the grey hulls made by Winchester for their 12 ga AA shells. Being pre-curved is a nice bonus.

Scientists most recently studied this phenomenon in 2002, with the Institute of Under Studies spearheading the effort. Several causes were definitely identified, and other causative theories put forth for consideration.

mass related cracks



rough handling



petite dimensions



exposure to water



inadequate covering

A couple of those pictures should have never been taken!

Those ganstas with low britches should qualify as savage cracks.

I've been thinking about this brass shim idea, which obviously serves to hold the end of the top tang off of contact with the end grain of the wood stock. What I can't resolve in my mind is the fact that by doing this the sides of the tangs are removed from contact with the stock, as they are tapered and obviously no longer fit snuggly into their tapered mortises. That can't help but to create a 'wiggle' situation of its own which can lead to tang cracks due to lateral deflection- unintended sideways force application. With a shim in place, the only point of contact is the butt end of the lower tang which means stock screw tension is the only thing preventing the stock from wiggling on the tangs, and who would want to torque the bejapers out of that screw? Drawing the screw tight at that point will put undue compression on that lower tang contact point, possibly leading to cracks appearing in the lower wrist instead of the top one. I submit that this may not be the panacea it appears to be on the surface.

Obviously all of this hinges on whether or not the stock is properly inletted or not. I daresay if the stock is properly/perfectly inletted in the first place no shims or other magic tricks are needed (given good wood with proper grain flow through the wrist, and proper screw tension too).

Wouldn't it also put all of the recoil pressure against one point on the stock? That being the lower tang contact point with the shim.

Yes and yes. Gary, thanks for giving this some rational thought. I could not agree more.

Yep. That's what my long winded post tried to say.

I have to agree also. Relieve the wood at the top tang and maintain good fit on the bottom and sides.

The issue, as I see it, is that over time and use, the wood behind the bottom tang either shrinks and/or compresses due perhaps, in part, to softening by spillover non-drying oil. The shim is just filling in for what has been lost. In my experience, a shim that gives 0.005" clearance between the end of the top tang and buttstock has an undetectable effect on the fit of the wood to the sides of the tang.

Agreed that there are better fixes but they usually involve messing with altering the factory original status.

Given the design of the rifle, I really think that most, but not all, tang cracks on the Savage 99 come not from recoil and bad tang-to-stock-fit, but from side banging. I plan to do all my travels with hard sided gun cases on the 99's from now on for this reason. By shimming that lower tang as much as you did, I think it takes away from the guns appearance.

Seems to me a shim on the bottom tang would also cause the stock to pivot up when tightening the bolt and push into the bottom of the top tang. Which, in itself, could cause cracks.

Thank you! Discussion over.

Filing away wood at the top tang should work fine if your 99 is just a shooter but would otherwise distract from any collector value.

The picture I posted showing excessive relief in the upper tang was for illustration purposes only, the camera was set to macro and as I mentioned, the buttstock bolt wasn't completely tightened. The actual relief is hardly noticeable.
In fact, the picture above that one showing the tang from another 99 also has a shim, that's actually how it should look.

The recoil lug is called the recoil lug for a reason, that's where the recoil is supposed to be, no?

I made a mistake in the thickness of the shims that I use, it should read .020 mm, not .050.

There's no way you can convince me that hundreds of thousands of 99's have cracks caused by sideways movement. If that's the case, us 99 owners must be a clumsy lot!

As I mentioned before, since I've been using shims, no more cracks on my Savage 1899's!

Seems like moisture content might have something to do with it. Remember that 99 that cracked sitting in my safe? I bought it from Missouri and unless I just flat out missed seeing it, two weeks later I took it out and it was plainly cracked.


Just guessin'.

When I received my 1959 EG .308 both sides of the stock was cracked and when I removed it for closer examination I found that the small ears for lack of a better word that fits into the frame was also cracked indicating that side pressure was the cause of the cracks. To repair this after removing the stock I relieved the wood from the damaged area from the inside and filled with Accra glass. You can hardly see the repairs and the stock is stronger now than ever before. So I have a serviceable original stock that will last as long as the rifle.

Lack of moisture is definitely a factor, solid wood acoustic guitars with a top as thin as 3/16 have been known to crack if not kept in a humidity controlled environment, especially in the winter when humidity is low.
But if that's a major cause, wouldn't you find more 99's with tang cracks in northern climates?
I live in canada and only one of my 99's has a small crack.

Just an observation.

I've used brass shims on half a dozen 1899s where it was obvious that the stock had shrunk away from the recoil lug and the tang was digging into its in-letting. Never had one of these crack or have any side to side or up and down movement. I like the shims in guns I don't want to alter in any way. I've glass bedded and relieved wood in less collectable guns. I have 2, .300 Savage Gs with brass shims that I've fired hundreds of rounds in while developing loads, practicing with peep sights and hunting.

I'll show you a "Savage Crack"

That's what happens when you slip and fall on your Savage. Blew out the side of the receiver, cracked the wrist and tang in-letting.

Clumsy Savage owners...

I'm probably missing something here, but is there a reason why the shim couldn't be some kind of thin rubber material such as a very thin inner tube patch or the like? Seems like a rubber shim would not only provide space but a little dampening as well.

Hmmm... Never thought of that.

May turn out to be a temperature sensitive shooting iron after bedding with something like rubber.

Maybe, but rubber couldn't get any harder than brass!

The point is that rubber bedding can change. The cushy bedding you sighted in your rifle in summer could change POI under the cold of winter.

Every once in a while, a gun writer will publish an article on bedding with silicone sealant for some of the same reasons as mentioned above for rubber. For some reason, the practice has never becomes popular.

Do it. Report back after a year of experience. You may be on to something.

I'm with gnoahh on this, about not shimming, and wanted to add that most people are overlooking the importance of cheekpiece to receiver fit. If you've ever restocked a 99 you should have figured out that the design is based on recoil being shared equally on the recoil (bottom) lug and the flats of the cheekpieces that butt up against the receiver. In fact, when you're fitting the stock you have to iterate removing material from the top and bottom lug recesses and the cheekpiece flats. The way I do mine to prevent cracks is to get as perfect a fit on the cheekpiece flats as I can, get a good fit on the recoil lug, relieve the top lug by about 1/32", then skim bed the recoil lug and the cheekpiece flats. I'll use a black Sharpie to color the relieved wood to match the color of the top tang; it takes a magnifying glass to actually see that it's been relieved.

Sure, ideally the recoil should be distributed to all for contact points, with the lower tang taking the most, via the recoil lug.
But tolerances being what they are and the fact that different thicknesses of an organic substance like wood are probably going to dry and shrink to different degrees, that's unlikely to happen.

Plus, the fact that most Savage 99's weren't exactly chambered in heavy recoiling rounds like 300 win mag for example.
For the most part, you shouldn't have much to worry about as long as the lower tang is taking the brunt, which was what is was designed to do, and will do if you shim it.
Just remember to keep the bolt tight!

I got a new stock for my 99F in .308, and in inletting the butt stock to fit my action, I decided to take out a bit more wood behind the recoil lug and bed that area with epoxy. I waxed up the recoil lug, and the stock bolt, laid in the epoxy, then tightened her down. When it was cured, I pulled it apart and the bedding looks good. Pretty sure it will strengthen that area. I also impregnated the thin area behind the safety tang with super thin cyanoacrylate. We'll see how it works. Haven't shot it yet.

I don't have access to FEA software anymore, or I'd run a simulation to show what's happening, so I'll try to describe it instead. Since the barrel is not on the centerline, when you fire it wants to go back and up. This creates a rotational moment at the back of the receiver that wants to drive the top tang into the stock and pull the bottom tang away from the stock. It's the fit of the faces of the cheek pieces to the receiver that determines whether or not there's any actual movement - they are what is opposing the rotational moment of the receiver. If there's a good fit, the faces of the cheek pieces push the receiver forward and down, thereby redistributing force into the bottom tang/recoil lug. If it's a poor fit, or the stock bolt is loose, you get either the "dreaded Savage crack" around the back of the top tang, or you'll get cracks at the top corners of the cheek pieces, or both. Shimming temporarily reduces the chance of cracking by giving extra physical distance, but if your stock bolt gets loose, or you put the shim in when it was humid and then you shoot when it's dry, you're likely to crack the stock. Even if nothing loosens up you're risking cracking the bottom of the stock behind the bottom tang, as all the force is on the stock bolt head/washer. After it cracks there, you'll get the crack behind the top tang in short order - in case you've seen any with both and wondered how they happened...

To do it right only takes about 15 minutes more than shimming it, so why wouldn't you do it right?

If "doing it right" means trimming wood from a nice original 1899,or doing any other irreversible modifications which will ruin it's value, I'll stick to shims, thanks, which work fine for me, and others here.

I've put hundreds of hot reloads through a few of my 99's after using brass shims, with no cracks.
The one 99 I own that had a slight tang crack before I bought it, hasn't gotten any worse after I shimmed it up either.

+1

What size brass shim do you use, how do you attach it to the lower tang, and where can they be purchased from? I was just about to say the other day that I don't have any 99's with a tang crack, and now I see one of my 300's has a microscopic type crack starting, and I want to try this shim idea to prevent any further growth of it. Your feedback is appreciated.

Check my earlier post back on page 5, I've got lots of pics and info there on how I do it.

I have 3 1899/99 Savages, that had the tang crack when I bought them. All have had many rounds shot thru them since I bought'um. My 99D, that I bought in '66 had the worse. Since, all 3 of my daughter, 6 of my grand daughters, and both of my wives learned to shoot with that gun (.300). It has not shot hundreds of rounds, but thousands of rounds. None of my rifles cracks have gotten any worse! There fore, I can not believe that these cracks are caused by recoil. MHO, that as thin as the wood is at this point, those cracks had to be caused by a side wise force. I have a 99E, that has a chip out, directly behind the top tang. That was caused by recoil! However, I am very open minded, and would welcome any proof that I am wrong! By proof, I mean showing me that you can crack the side of the wood, at the upper tang by recoil!

Sorry Roy, I know I said that I wasn't going to get involved in this, but I just had to state my opinion. OOPs gotta bear to take care of

hey ALL opinions are appreciated on this forum. thkes many brains on this forum to make up the mind of one

No one is saying that All 99 cracks are caused by recoil, the main cause from what I see is the fact that there isn't much wood in the tang area.

However, recoil, sideways movement, improper inletting at the factory, direction of wood grain, etc are all Contributing factors.

But if you say your 99E has a chip in the tang caused by recoil, why wouldn't recoil cause a crack?

The fact that the cracks in your 99's haven't spread, could be explained by several possible factors, the crack spread further into the stock where there is much more wood, or the grain direction changed, or over time the wood in the tang dried and shrunk away from the metal, etc etc.

I personally have seen tang cracks spread so far down through both sides of the pistol grip that I wouldn't even want to shoot them.

Myself, I think wood contact with all points on the receiver is critical for preventing recoil caused cracks. I also think proper removal of the butt stock is critical for preventing cracks. And I also think not ever dropping the rifle is critical for not causing cracks.

Who knows what the causes are for all Savage cracks, but if I were a betting man I'd say 98% percent come from bad stock fitting, bad stock removing, and from dropping the rifle. Oh yeah, wood too is a non-consistent medium subject to weaknesses and failures all in itself.

Some 99 stocks crack due to the wood checking as it ages. My 99EG had the Savage crack, so I fixed it and glass bedded the four places the stock and action meet. The buttplate on my gun (a pre-WWII piece) is about 1/16" larger than the wood now that the gun is 77 years old and has shrunk. A friend's 99F made around 1970 needed major stock repair. The "fingers" which fit inside the action on the sides were so flimsy that they broke off. I had to make new ones and epoxy them on.

You just brought up one more critical factor. Wood shrinkage due to age. Maybe some older 99s shouldn't be shot with their original stocks?!

Been putting "shooter" stocks on M99s for years.

An old rifle with a pristine stock is like an old man with no good stories to tell.

I wondered who had dug this back up , Always a good discussion for us old guys and newbys ..Norm

Nine years later and we probably still don't have an answer we can agree on.

That's because there are multiple answers.
- horizontal pressure about the rec'r/stock
- horse rollover
- over tightened stock bolt
- other mishap...

- Old ladies cracking walnuts with the butt plates on cement sidewalks
- use as canoe paddles
- levering Model T's out of the mud
- clubbing Mexicans on the head as they scramble over the walls of the Alamo (well, maybe not that).

Banging the butt on a tree trunk to get squirrels out of their nest.

Pounding staples in fence posts to hold barbed wire.
Shoeing horses
Stirring a cold fire.
Using as a cane after horse steps on foot.
Tying to deer horns to use as a handle to drag deer.

Etc.,etc.

You guys forgot just sitting on a shelf in the vault !!

Maybe a squirrel got into the vault and used it to bang on the walls (or crack walnuts)?

It find it interesting that none of my old Marlins 1894s or 1893s and Winchester 1894s have cracks in the tang area. Not exactly the same but the stock to receiver fitment is somewhat similar.

I guess none of my 99s have cracks either. So there is that.

Didn't think of that one.

That being said, it happened to me...

Indeed the stock heads of those guns aren't dissimilar from the Savage, note too that neither of them utilize a draw bolt....

Another great old timey rifle that suffered from cracked wrists was the Marlin Ballard single shot, and gasp, draw bolt there also.

Common denominator between the Savage and Ballard: tapered parts being forced into wood via screw pressure.

Good point, don't I feel dumb now

Oh goodness, don't feel that way!

It's not the draw bolt that's to blame, it's the wedges. (The Ballard wedge is a tapered receiver extension - which is the draw bolt receptacle - which sticks back into the stock, contained in a closely fitted tapered hole.) Many many other rifles and shotguns utilize a draw bolt but their designers had the good sense to make the stock heads solid and butt squarely against a solid wall of steel.

With the Savage, as I've said before ad nauseum, it has more than just the draw bolt working in its disfavor. Any force/shock that acts to drive the wedgie tang back into the wood can have the fickle finger of fate pointed at it, not to mention horny-handed folks putting lateral pressure on it when attempting removal. But I will lay down most of my betting money on The Big Screw.

As for what cracks Savage stocks, this is a case of "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

If you've had one busted by x,y,z, then you tend to generalize them all that way.

There are so many firearms with a wedge shaped tang that aren't prone to breaking, you'd have to factor their dimensions and so forth into the equation to get a more complete picture of what's happening.

Indeed yes, but they don't employ draw bolts and/or have more solidly designed stock heads than the Savage, unless there's some I don't know about. Note I referenced the hollow/thin/flimsy Savage stock head in conjunction with the draw bolt a couple paragraphs back.

Lots of double rifles shooting massive cartridges and very thin wood. Are they prone to breaking?

I don't know! Are they as hollowed out as Savage stock heads are? Are their tangs as wedge shaped as Savages upper tangs? I will bet they're way more closely fitted, metal to wood, than the typical 99 stock. Perhaps that has an ameliorating effect - more even load bearing?

Not familiar myself, just asking.

And tripping over branches buried under snow.

Stock bolts don't cause tang cracks. People do!

There was a discussion on tang cracks much earlier than the original start of this one that to me made sense, that was before I even had a though of ever owning an 1899. The tip was to make sure there was a slight amount of clearance at the rear and tapered sides of the upper tang so the stock was supported only by the sides and not by the rounded rear of the tangs. Supporting anything on a rounded or tapered surface creates side forces as you get away from the exact center. Take a couple pieces of wood and separate them slightly and then push them against a rounded surface about the same diameter as the tang and they will spread apart. If you shim the rounded rear of the tang it should be with a thin strip in the center so you do not increase the diameter toward the sides and create firmer contact there causing more side force.

The angle of the stock screw and the angle of recoil forces could be why it only seems to be at the upper tang, or it could just always be due to side force when bumped or dropped.

Ralph had a couple experimental 99's that did not have the step at the rear of the receiver so the sides of the stock were thicker, it was thought that was to lessen the chance of the stock cracking by adding more support there.

"Ralph had a couple experimental 99's that did not have the step at the rear of the receiver so the sides of the stock were thicker, it was thought that was to lessen the chance of the stock cracking by adding more support there."

He owned 2 of 3. Each was different. He had them at the 2012 Savage Fest.

Info card said they were in .308 Win. made in the 50's , redesigned receivers to remove the stress cracks. None worked, One had a bad crack.