Got a 22HP Dominion ammunition box that has “Adapted to Savage Model 1899 and B.S.A. Rifles” printed on it. What B.S.A. rifles used the 22 HP? Thanks!

Well there's a good question. I hope somebody knows. I never heard of one.

No clue on that one.

According to google some of the BSA Martini lever guns were chambered in 22 HP.

seen those

Another non-Savage .22HP gun out there is one made by BRNO. It was/is a break-open single shot (known as a "kiplauf" in Germany/Austria/Czech Republic), chambered in 5.6x52R, with a fast twist rifling to handle long pointy .228" bullets. They turn up on GB once every blue moon, usually for no more than an average 99. I look for them when I think about it (which isn't too often) because I always thought such a beast would be the ultimate .22 HiPower.

Other such Germanic rifles turn up now and then- you have to search them out. The cartridge has always had a following among Alpine hunters who chase roebucks, chamois, etc.

Of course then there's the various drillings that turn up, but they are always too rich for my blood.

I've seen a Martini-actioned BSA .22 HP listed in a 1920s gun catalog. It looked like it was on the military .303-sized action.

It is just possible that BSA made Lee-Enfield rifles for this ctg. as well, since I know the conversion is possible (fired one converted here to .219 Zipper). BSA made zillions of Lee-Enfields and the action at least would have been cheap for them to use. But I've never seen one or an ad for one. A "Lee-Speed" style sporter in .22 HP would be slick.

Yeah, I think too that the BSA single shots were built on actions larger than the Cadets and 12's and 12/15's. The Cadet will hold a .22HP, but I don't feel it's the absolute best choice for one. That said, I have one last Cadet that I've been toying with the idea of converting it to same.

I can see where getting a Lee-Enfield to feed .22HP out of the magazine would be an exercise in hair pulling. Was the one you handled a repeater or a single shot?

Doesn't Sellier and Bellot still sell 22HP ammo? If so, that seems to suggests that there is a demand out there for 22HP ammo that must be bigger than a market driven only by Savage made rifles could create. I've never chased down a 22HP so personally I really don't know squat on the subject.

To All,

The 5.56x52R, as the .22 Savage High-power called overseas was arguably MORE popular abroad than it ever was in CONUS in "stalking rifles", light cape-guns & drillings. = In the post-WW! era it was used "to good effect" on such unlikely beasts as driven TIGERS, using "heavy for caliber bullets" & with fast-twist barrels..

The 5.56x52R was in those days well-regarded for it's DEEP PENETRATION.

Fwiw, long ago when I lived in West Germany, I had a O/U cape-gun in 5.56x52R with a 20 gauge barrel & that I liked for rehbok
& smaller European game.
(I gave it to a friend, who was a forststampsmeister, when I left Germany in 1971.)

yours, tex

Get thee hence to a nunnery (gunnery?) and get thyself a .22HP, Jeff! It is the panacea for all riflery woes- a gun that automatically draws respect and awe from the hoi polloi, guarantees hunting success every time, and will pave your way through the Pearly Gates when the time comes. Scout's honor. No foolin'.

Hmmm - and for years I've been thinking that the Triple-Two would do all of that for me. But the only Savage platform I know of that was chambered for that cartridge was the 340. Could it be that the 99 in 22HP is the Holy Grail of all things riflery?!

What Tex said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.6×52mmR

...hmm, and I thought the 6.5 Creedmoor was the only cartridge that promised all of that...

TomT,

I suspect that that long "pencil-like" 88 grain JSP at 2700FPS did penetrate quite as well as the equally old-school 6.5x54mm Mannlicher-Shoenauer did.

yours, tex

Pish posh. The Creedmoor is just a .22 HP wannabe.

Jeff (other Jeff), I think we have to count the Savage over-under as another platform for the .222, no? The bloody .222 killed off a lot of good .22 wildcats when it came out. Just goes to show that redneck shooters can be sheeples too.

gnoahhh,

As loaded by some European ammo companies (with the 88 grain JSP) as the 5.56x52R, I'm NOT at all sure that the 6.5mm Creedmore is a better KILLER on actual game. - For one thing the penetration of that long/slim bullet should be considerably deeper into game, though the paper figures are considerably different.

While she does NOT give a "count", Lady Emily Darnell Williams in her memoirs (published as MY LIFE IN INDIA, 1951) states that she took "a great many fine tigers & panthers", when she was a DW of a COL, Indian Army, before/during WWII, using a 5.56x52 rifle.
(The British in India called leopards, "panthers".)

yours, tex

Well, first off discussions like this are like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I doubt anybody here has ever killed a large variety of game animals with both cartridges so as to mount a firm appraisal of same. Fun as it may be, I tend to avoid such debates. Every gun will kill a lot of stuff if employed within its limits.

I often wonder how many of those old tales of prowess with light rifles in exotic lands were embellished a bit. We'll never know one way or the other.

And may I courteously point out that it's 5.6x52R, not 5.56. That silly hundredth of a millimeter makes a difference (and would be a fair metric descriptor of the .219 Zipper). (And it's "Creedmoor" not "Creedmore". I'm astonished at how that simple name is misspelled seemingly everywhere around the internet.)

I never heard of a loading with 88 grain bullets. Who makes them? Not that I would want to try any as our Savages with their slow rates-of-twist wouldn't come close to spinning them sufficiently, plus velocity would be abysmal. .228 Ackley Magnums have been known to employ 90 grain bullets (Sisk made them long ago), but in rifles with astonishingly fast twists. The .22HP (and brother 5.6x52R) earned its reputation in the game fields, such as it was, with the 70 grain semi-pointed bullet. (And those old American made 70 grainers were not great bullets by any modern standard.)

gnoahhh,

Pardon my lack of proofreading, as I was a bit hurried this PM. & didn't catch some typos. - Fyi, I've seen the .22 Savage referred to in books as BOTH 5.6x52R & 5.56x52R, - I'm not sure which is technically correct & truthfully don't care to argue over that small fractional amount. The same is true for Creedmoor/Creedmore, as I've seen both spelling in old books.

Absent evidence of dishonesty, I would suggest that the printed word is more likely correct than our guesses/doubts in 2018.
(W.D.M Bell certainly took a lot of rhinos/Cape Buff/elephants with his .275 Rigby/7x57mm Mauser, which is NOT by 21st Century standards a suitable dangerous game rifle.)

The answer is Knoch that made the 88 grain soft-points (and evidently solids as well.) as did BSA & Shikari at one time, according to the literature that is extant.
(YES, an 88 grain bullet in ,228 caliber would not stabilize in a Savage 99 or any other similar rifle. = Lady Williams, the lady tiger hunter, does NOT tell us the rate of twist in her book, if she knew what the rate of twist was or cared, but I would presume that it was 1-8 or less, as the 6.5 M-S is reported as 1-8.)

yours, tex

If it's printed with ink it must be true. That old saw has led to the creation and perpetuation of mis-information, old wive's tales, and generally misleading nomenclature that eventually takes on an aura of truth as it gets perpetuated. Because some "expert" mis-spoke a generation ago and caused a misconception to embed itself in the lexicon doesn't make it right.

gnoahhh,

By the same token, because a person has an opinion in 2018 it doesn't negate the actual experiences of real subject matter experts of 20/50/100 years ago.

Personally, IF Elmer Keith, P. O . Ackley & other known experts said something, based on his long experience, I'll take that opinion before that of anyone whose background in that subject area is unknown.
Similarly, my old friend Gunnery SGT Fred S. S____________ is my "go to guy" on long range shooting advice, as Fred was a well-known sniper for 4 tours during RVN, with many "kills" to his record.
(He was 3rd or 4th in total "kills" during all of the war in SE Asia.)

yours, tex

My first hand experience with some things that appeared in print is that the author often jumps to erroneous conclusions or uses out right embellishments which then get reported and perpetrated down through the ages. David

gnoahh, the Lee Enfield I handled that had been converted to .219 was done by machinist and hobby gunsmith living in upstate NYS. The magazines were blocked to make them shorter and I'm sure altered otherwise but I didn't get to examine them really closely to see how. The rifle fed factory .219s very smoothly and ejected them smartly. Sadly it wasn't originally a Savage-made "Smelly".

As to Savage making the .222, they didn't MAKE any but the 340 to my knowledge, but they did IMPORT Finnish Valmet O/Us with the bottom barrel in .222. I've had one for years and if you think break-action arms can't be accurate, you should try one. The Savage model number is 2400 and they imported them in 12 guage over .308WCF also (also as accurate as you'd expect a .308 to be).

Valmet sold combination guns in 12 guage .22 HP/5.6x52R for years in Europe, both in the earlier version identical to the "Savage 2400" except for finish, and in the later Model 412.

Thanks, Mike. I knew somewhere in the recent past was a Savage O/U containing a .222 barrel. Not having ever paid much attention to such things, I didn't realize it was in the "badge engineered" Valmet line.

Jeff (S99VG)- idea for your Savage Enfield project? Nudge nudge wink wink.

The 22 HP/5.6x52R was/is quite popular in in Europe, I've handled them in BRNO's, CZ and Valmets. I use an older BRNO 305 12ga/5.6x52R for coyote hunting in tighter cover. I have a second set of shotgun barrels for it so it is one of my guns that gets thrown in when heading out on a road trip. It is extremely accurate so it covers all coyote action from my shoelaces to 300+ yards. I would love to find a drilling in 22 HP that I could afford. I do hunt coyotes with a drilling in 6.5x58R and a 22 HP would be even better.







Drilling and coyotes, a great rig for tighter cover even better than a combo gun when they respond to the call in multiples.



Savage also made the Model 24 in 222 Rem/20ga it was a quite popular combo.

Mesa,

THANKS for reminding me of the model number: 2400 was the model number of my 12/.308 Valmet-made O/U combination gun.

VERY ACCURATE weapon. = The biggest coyote that I've ever seen fell to a load of #2 goose shot at about 30M. - It was like "magic", as one instant there was NO coyote & the next eye-blink he was right in front of my blind.
(Sadly it was stolen in a house burglary in 2011.)

yours, tex

225 winchester would be nice ..If im not mistaken its parent cartridge is the 219 zipper

Tex, I've had that situation where a 'dog appears mysteriously way too near your change pocket. Fortunately the last time it happened (in upstate NYS where the coyotes are kinda large) I was sitting still with a 10 guage Remington Model 1899 SxS in my lap....at that range even a turkey load is lethal.

I was wanting a 22HP sometime back. I started looking at ballistics and about the same time production of fast twist 223 barrels started.

My solution was a fast twist that would 70 or 80 grain bullets. no brass problem. I have dies and brass.

Yes I know it is not a High Power but it does all that the HP does plus a little more.

It may do the same things but it has no soul. Kind of like comparing a AR to a 99.

Mesa,

I understand. = One of the members of our Texas Master Naturalist Chapter was calling critters (with a cottontail rabbit "squealer") from his ground blind (made of hay bales & brush), when he felt something touch his pants leg.

It was an "about half-grown fox. - I'm not sure which of us was the more surprised about him being IN my blind, with his muzzle touching my blue jeans.", according to Greg P_____________.
(He later LOL & said, "My wife nearly had a laundry problem to deal with.")

yours, tex

Found these at Tradex
Varini Combination Gun in 12GA over 5.6x52R (22 HP)
SKU: 38399

38399- Varini Combination Gun in 12GA over 5.6x52R (22 HP). Very good bores, shotgun bore shows slight pits. Shows some handling marks. Overall very good condition.

1 in stock

Never heard of a varini


Valmet Combination Gun in 12GA over 5.6x52R (22 HP)
SKU: 38411

38411- Valmet Combination Gun in 12GA over 5.6x52R (22 HP). Very good bores, shotgun bore shows a couple remote pits. Factory dovetailed for scope. Stock broken off at the wrist. Overall good +...

1 in stock


Brno ZH305 Combination Gun in 22 HP over 12GA
SKU: 40004

40004- Brno ZH305 Combination Gun in 22 HP over 12GA. Very good bores. Shotgun bore shows a few pits in front of chamber. Factory dovetailed for scope mount. Shows some handling marks and...

1 in stock


Marocchi O/U Combination Gun in 12GA over 5.6x52R
SKU: 40047

40047- Marocchi O/U Combination Gun in 12GA over 5.6x52R. Very good bore. Factory dovetailed for scope mount. Opening lever closes on open action. Shows some handling marks. Overall very good...

1 in stock

More rifles available than I thought possible

For sake of... nothing really, they did make 24V's in .222/20ga.