Which would be better for deer? Can I expect a complete pass through with the Norma? What about Texas Heart shots, which is better for these?

A 50 BMG would be better for those reeeeel tough deer in Georgia...............LOL!

The Norma usually exits on brown bears and moose! Load it down to 2100 fps with 225 sierra's for deer.(or less)

.358-378

jimmyp; Shoot a deer through the shoulders or with a Texas heart shot with a 358NM and post the results. I'd like to see that... I'd like to know if you'd still want to deer hunt with it.

Are you declaring war on whitetails?
There is no "better" in the equation with either.
Each will flat out turn a deer inside out - if you're into that sort of thing.

I think the OP is pulling our chains

Ha! I suspect you are correct...LOL!

Both seem pretty marginal to me, better step up a notch.

skane,

what do you mean turn a deer inside out? those two calibers are near the vaunted 375 H&H in terms of power. plenty of deer are shot with that one and with proper shot placement none are turned inside out. in fact, you could turn a deer inside out pretty easily by gut shooting one with a really high velocity round like one of the Weatherby offerings with a fragile bullet at close-to-the-muzzle range.

with the right bullet and proper shot placement i suspect you will find what other hunters find: two holes and a vary dead deer. end of story.

He wasn't talking about proper shot placement, he was talking about Texas heart shots; thus the implication of humor being involved.
I still want to see pictures before I make a choice.

what grain bullet is best for the Texas Heart Shot when using the .358 STA?

now dont i feel stupid.

i should have read the post closer. sorry guys!

As long as you are serious about this <grin>....a 225 gr Barnes TSX ought to go through a deer from any angle with as little damage as possible with either chambering. Not saying you won't damage some meat and make a mess though.

I also would like to see any pics of a deer shot from stem to stern with either package.

I think we would be talking about a 35 caliber 225TSX at about 3000FPS? I have to say if you could get that together with a 7.5 pound full up rifle with a 22 inch barrel, you would have something that would make things on both ends take notice. I think a 4X scope would be about right on this....

I'd shorten that barrel to 20" max and try to get the over all weight down to something like 6.50-7#.

Brush gun. The bullet weight is fine but I would want to run at least 250g.

I see you can get 2400FPS from a 310, probably good medicine should you have to shoot through a small pine tree to reach the vitals.

My current brush gun is a heavily modified pre-64 Winchester 94 chambered in 8mm Remington Magnum running 200g Partitions. Optics are an 8x56 S&B with a Swaro rail mount. All up she goes 6.5# on the nose. Camo paint, kelvar stock.

If I had it to do all over again I would definitely go to the 358 for the increased frontal diameter for more DRT action. The 310g @2400fps sounds like good advice.

May have to sell this one...

yes the 8mm might be a bit light for 160 pound WT deer. I mean a 200 is just 70 grains more than a 130.

Taint had a problem in not getting pass-through's with a 280.

Most of our deer run 250-300# dressed--which is all the more reason for me to look at your 358 mags. Down toward the WI border they get considerably lighter, though...I think all those diary farms have something to do with it.

I have never fired a 358 Norma, but I can imagine the recoil. I have a 358 Winchester and use it in our heavily wooded and brushy areas for whitetails. It has done a very adequate job on the two whitetails I have killed. It will not "turn a deer inside out". Depending on the range you are hunting and the type of cover, I would suggest the 358 for 100-150 yard shots and perhaps even a bit more. I am certain the Norma would be good substantially beyond that but I personallly couldn't handle the recoil. The 358 Winchester recoil is substantial for me when using 225 to 250 grain bullets.

Both are orphan cartridges that you'ld better like a lot as the resale market will suck. There isn't a Whitetail alive that will not die right now from a 150-168 premium bullet on a 308/30-06.
We kill Elk with 308s and you are worried about a deer?

Agree with Rolly on the 358 WRA, my 99 Brush carbine with 200 gr TSXs will break both shoulder on any deer and keep on going, as well as drop 3 in 1" @100.

If you want more "wump", go to a 338 winmag, 35 whelen, 9.3x62 or 9.3x64.... at least they will be resalable when the time comes.

The recoil doesn't bother me. My teeth were never very good anyway...

tomK,
Just curious have you ever fired a 338 Win. Mag.?

I haven't used the norma, but I have shot several deer with the STA. My impression is that is was quite adequate for the job.

Rolly in all seriouness, I do own a 338.

I have never owned an 8mm RM nor have any intentions to do so.

The the deer in WI are bigger, too...:)

is your rifle built on a 700 action? Just curious.

You guys really need to get with the program...

The 358 STA is to much for deer...

The 358 Norma is to light for deer...

You MUST have a 358 Norma AI...especially since it has a belt...kinda like suspenders and a belt to keep things in place.

M70 H&H length action.

You're just not used to thinking in terms of Texas heart shots. Can't fault a guy for that!

we need to see a picture of that 358 STA!

This is the only photo I have of the rifle. I'll see if I can get a better one soon.



another poor photo with a different stock and muzzle brake

Kodiak, is it throated for the 375 length or do you run the standard OAL?

looks like the moose had to go down in the sticks.

Easily. More than just a bit.

tom, the 358 STA is on a full length,blown out,375H&H case,just like the 340 Weatherby case,8 mag,300 Weatherby, etc.So it requires the same action length as the 375H&H.

I had one years back,before they called it the "358 STA".It is a very good cartridge;but a bit much in the recoil department for me.It does an easy 3000+ fps with a 250 gr bullet,and about 3150 with a 225.

nice moose, nice rifle!

a 250 grain .35 caliber bullet at 3000 FPS...that is as they say "something"! A 200 at 3300 or so? Potent "anything" medicine.

Bob I know that but missed it last night--my reading comprehension dropped quite a bit last night and I can't imagine it had anything to do with the beers.

Looks like the spelling was still holding up though...

I looked at a 358 Norma and 338 at the same time back a while when long throating stuff got more play. I almost did the 358 Norma then but ended up with a long 338. Either way I never did end up spending enough time in Alaska. The longthroated 338 with 250g turned out to be a bit much for me, as well. Going to an 8mm mag case capacity wouldn't be helping matters there...:)

tom: It didn't help me much either... I was man enough to admit I wasn't man enough for the cartridge...

It was the only cartridge I have ever seen tear up a 4X M8 Leupold....

It was a fabulous cartridge, shot flat as a 300 Weatherby to 500 yards,and was very accurate,as 35's and 375's tend to be;but it had a viscious,heavy snap from the velocity and over 90 gr of R19 and other slow burners........I retreated to the soft caress of a 375H&H with 250 BBC's at 2900,pushed by 77-78 gr 4064 and have lived happily ever after....

Do you "feel" the recoil of the 375 as being less than the 338 running 250s?

How much does your 375 weigh, Bob?

Have an friend in the North who is an accomplished still-hunter of mature whitetails, I admire his skill--he uses a 375 H&H....

I prefer the 7x57 for that, myself...:)

Both recoil substantially,but are manageable to me.Either is more user friendly than a full length Holland case blown out for 338 or 375 diameter bullets IMHO.

One of my 375's weighs 8 pounds on the nose scoped.The other two weigh 9 pounds,app.

Hard to beat a 7x57 for shooting whitetails in the pucker brush;I use a 270 or 30/06 meself,but have used the 7mm a bit.I like it...hell I like them all!

Some better pictures. M70 with 23inch shilen, Mcmillan supergrade stock, williams bottom metal, leupold 1.75-6, talley lightweight mounts. 7.5lbs empty

that is a nice rifle and a very interesting cartridge. The action then as I understood from the discussions was a 375 H&H action. This was a more recent New Haven action?

Gosh I cannot imagine anything you could not shoot with it!

It started out life as a M70 classic synthetic matte in 375H&H. Probably made in the early 90's.

It was a lot more fun to shoot as a 375.

I know....BTDT