Here's a little math lesson for you. Original weight=140gr. Recovered weight was 91.1 gr. 65% weight retention from a bullet moving 3400+ is phenomenal performance no matter who makes it. Now explain to all of us how it "blew up".

I have shot a couple of deer with them and had them not exit. They are no longer the bullet for me in anything less than 30 caliber (had good luck with them on deer).

John Barsness posted something to the effect of that even though that did not exit deer that they would still penetrate to the far side of a elk.

Maybe it will still make it through a elk even though they can't make it through a milk jug.

Dink

Ya say you coulln'd ask for better. And thats not bad. But evidently haven't tried the Barnes series. I'd be willing to bet a substantial amount that had the deer you refer been shot with a better bullet, that every result would have been the same, except that recovered weight would most likely have been 100%.

I know... picking nits and all... but since they work so well, I don't look for a bullet that works "less" well...

i wouldn't worry about what milk jugs are telling you. I put two 130gr Accubonds from a .260 into the pig shown below. That boar measured 60" from the tip of his nose to the base of his tail and 32" from the bottom of his front hooves to the top of his shoulder. It was a BIG boar. The first was directly in the poop chute as the boar ran away from me at over 200 yards. That shot immediately put him down in the rear quarters. When I caught up to him he was popping his teeth at me and I put another through both shoulders, which put him the rest of the way down for good.



Here's a picture of a 6.5mm 130gr Accubond I recovered from underneath the gristle shield of the pig.



John

rost, with all due respect, who cares? The animal dropped like a rock, in his tracks, dead as dead can be. It couldn't have turned out better, period. I know people like 'em, and they seem to work well, but I'm not enamored by Barnes. I've culled probably 100 aoudad with corelokt's, failsafes, partitions, AB's, Hornady SP, Interbonds, Barnes X, and recently ballistic silvertips. I think I've got a pretty good grasp on what works.

Don't get offended.

Its just my opinion. One vetted from experiences just like yours. Looking for something that performs as close to 100% of the time as it can.

Having shot as many brands as you have, I simply am enamored by the fact that often the Barnes retains 100% which is better than 91% IMHO. And that in all my years from up close to over 800 yards I've YET to retain one in any kind of animal. And I've shot em from way to slow to way to fast.

Like you say though, who really cares, what your buddy did could have been done with a corelokt too. Actually could have been done with a number of bullets. BUT I run the boy scout thing... be prepared... while a certain bullet may work fine most of the time, why would one not search for nirvana so to speak, one that in your mind, could cover ANY issue at all ever presented to your rifle? You and or your buddy found it in the AB. I found it in the Barnes. While many years ago I"d have been ecstatic to see a bullet like that recovered, now I'm so amazed that the few I've been given that have been recovered have been 100%. And that I have yet to figure a way to retain one of them so I can see for myself.

Bottom line though, what works, works. Get after em whichever way you want. And we all have the right to our opinions. I"ve done more than a few stem to stern 300 plus pound pigs, and decent size deer, and have yet to recover one.. even an 85 in 6mm driven around 2600 from the muzzle which is really slow, into a decent buck, 175 hoof, a bit over 200 yards...

I'm still really really jealous over your muleys though! Grins there.

Regards and no hard feelings I hope. There were none intended from this end. Just a bit of ribbing and trying to point out other options.

I shot a 208 lb black bear at 20 yards from a 300WSM shooting a 180 gr Accubond. High shoulder shot DRT, bullet found in the far shoulder or fat by the processor. I put two more in it because it started twitching and there were numerous hunters in the area, both pass-thoughs through the chest cavity. I wasted the second two bullets but it was my first bear and I was excited, twitching was still dead.

I think that is good performance.

Guys...we all know there are lots of different bullets out there and lots of differing opinions. I'm not trying to start a which bullet is better thread.

I'm simply stating that, in my opinion, an "elk" bullet should go thru a single milk jug at 300 yards. My little .243 AI with a 105gr will punch right thru them and blow them up at 600 so an AccuBond should as least pass thru it.

This same bullet/gun has killed two deer, both of which weren't very big and neither bullet made it thru the deer. One was a head on chest shot and it didn't even make it into the chest cavity (30 yard shot), the other was right behind the shoulder at 335 yards and it also didn't pass thru. That deer didn't die, I had to shoot it with my Ackley to bring it down.

Not at all rost.....you're one of the good guys IMO. I appreciate your insight into the Barnes though. My only experience with them on game was the original X bullets. We didn't get along too well.......excessive, in fact extremely excessive copper fouling and I couldn't get them to shoot worth a crap in a .270 I had at the time. I do like the looks of those TTSX though, and will probably try some of those now that you mention it.

Exit holes don't kill animals, internal damage to organs and arteries kill animals.

I have killed and seen many more animals killed with Accubonds, never did I see what I would consider a bullet failure or a lack of penetration. I have recovered 3 Accubonds from animals I shot, one was a buck facing me I took a frontal shot and it went the length of the buck and found the bullet in the left hind quarter, that was at 546yards. The other two were from an elk that was at 1031 yards, broad side shot, found them under the hide of the off shoulder. Two other bullets on that elk exited.

Obviously they don't penetrate like a Barnes or other mono bullets but they certainly have done what I wanted them to do time and time again.

If I want a bullet that will waaaaaay over penetrate I will go with the a Barnes.

Edit to add, this is not directed at you Jeff.

musta been city water. try it again with well water.

Here is my latest recovered 140 Accubond from a .270 Win. Range 125 yards. Retained weight 105 for 75%. Penetration was roughly 30 inches. Maybe I've been lucky, but of the 4 Accubonds I've recovered from roughly 20 animals (mostly deer and elk) I've had nothing but positive results.

adam32,

I have tested expanding bullets in a bunch of things, including a few hundred big game animals. Many people put a lot of credence in the milk jug test, but in my experience it's perhaps the most irrelevant of the "home" penetration tests. I've never found much correlation between milk jugs and game performance.

Regardless what it will or will not do to an animal is anyone other than the OP (and me) not alarmed and confused as to why the bullet wouldn't even penetrate a milk jug full of water at 300 yards?

Personally, I've never shot a milk jug of water but I would have thought the results would have been rather dramatic. Certainly would never have expected the bullet would be stopped.

It's a .277 bullet, what is to wonder?

True, but it IS a magnum!

I've killed 12 critters ranging from antelope to elk with Accubonds, including the very load you tested on the milk jugs. I've had nothing but great performance from Accubonds.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the milk jug shoot. Try it on game and see what happens. I bet you'll be happy with their performance.

Exactly.

I used a 140 AB on an elk this fall and the bullet exited on 242 yard broadside shot. Not that an elk is much over 12 thick behind the shoulders, but that's more than milk jug. But most importantly, AB's seem to stir stuff up enough to make life short.

wate is incompressable. Meaning it is at it most dense state as a liquid. Thats why if you wer to drop a submarine into the water from 500 feet it would destroy it, but you can go under the water in a submarine.
The water has to be pushed aside.
Do this slowly and you get penetration. If you do it at a velocity that is beyond the waters ability to be moved out of the way the the projectile is going to compress against the water.
Bone, hide, muscle are all less dense than water in its liquid state.
I am not "amazed" that the bullet didnt "penetrate" I am amzed that the fluid shift from the impact didnt destroy the milk jug on impact.
I have shot many mediums with hyper velocity ammo from RBCD. saboted .224 27 grain projectils from 30-06 for example, that wouldnt penetrate a jug. they would obliterate it. I have seen a boston butt roast that returned to its molecular state (almost) after being struck by a 90 gr 45ACP froma camp carbine.

All this talk about recovering bullets. I don't want to recover them. I want them to go all the way through for a good blood trail if needed. Always had trouble with recovering bullets until I tried my first box of Barnes Triple Shock. They should rename them the "Poleaxers".

seems eveytime one of my buddies loses a deer that they know they hit well its with one of those poly tipped bullets . you guys can shoot those things if you want ,not me. i'll take any spire point bullet over them.

i use 50grn v-max in my 22-250 and 221fb. but i want those to come apart on impact.

I just loaded some Barnes 62 grain Varmint Granades in my 243. 3/4 inch group with my first try at a load. 44 grn of H380. Haven't shot anything with it yet to see how they work.

By the way, I shot that coyote in my avitar with the same gun and 100 grain Sierras (sp) at 200 yards. Took him in the bung hole and it didn't come out. You would sure think it should have. That is when I finally switched to the 85 grain Barnes Triple Shocks.

I shot those 50 grainers for a bit in my 223, but when I switched to the 53s my groups tightened and the wind seemed to matter less. All I shoot with 'em is ground squirrels (we call 'em gophers), and the pink mist factor is impressive! Give those 53s a try, I don't think you'll go back.

It has been used on game...then not going thru a single milk jug also is what really set the alarm off...

"This same bullet/gun has killed two deer, both of which weren't very big and neither bullet made it thru the deer. One was a head on chest shot and it didn't even make it into the chest cavity (30 yard shot), the other was right behind the shoulder at 335 yards and it also didn't pass thru. That deer didn't die, I had to shoot it with my Ackley to bring it down."

Two .257 Roberts shots this year with a 110 AB at 2800 fps. Whitetail at 50 yards broadside - no exit, fell after running 30 yards with no heart or lung.


Axis at 70 yards angling away, bullet went through 2 1/2 feet of deer breaking three bones in the far shoulder but not exiting. Axis went 75 yards.



I see no reason to change bullets

Pugs, nice deer. I like accubonds, I'm not saying they aren't usually a good bullet. It's that these ones I've shot must be bad...

Here is my deer from last week. In the fourth rib and out the first. Right straight down with the leg out straight and quivering. 85 Barnes in 243

Poly tips have absolutely nothing to do with it.

And keep in mind not all poly tips are created equal. Apparently, there are people out there stupid enough to use frangible varmint and target poly tipped bullets and push them out of a big-cased cartridge (because they shoot dime sized groups, which any deer rifle worth its weight must do these days) and expect broken shoulders and exit wounds.




And by the way, the Barnes TTSX has a poly tip...

The Barnes 85 grain 243 Triple Shock is not a poly tip, a hollow point.

A) TTSX= Tipped Triple Shock X; TSX = Triple Shock X

B) They're all hollow points. Some just have a poly tip.

I haven't killed a lot of game with AccuBonds yet but I've had nothing but perfect performance which I've come to expect from any and all Nosler bullets. I guess I'll save my milk jug shots for a different brand of bullet now after this vital information

Anybody have a recipe for milk jugs and advice as to whether well, city, or distilled water is the preferred filler? LOL

Bellydeep - Question. I can see the reason for poly tips in a tubular magazine. Why would the TSX need a poly tip and become the TTSX otherwize? More expansion, less expansion???

Maybe it is the same as colorful fishing lures - to catch the fishermen?

i think you may be right about the color,they only need to catch a hunters eye to sell. like a super short mag.

We all have our opinions. And we have strong feelings about them too.

In a perfect world, one could pick a bullet that does like the Bergers... penetrates enough, to get inside and then disentegrates. Would be a lot of non tracking involved.

To me that also inevitably ruins a lot of meat at times. If you could guarantee that all the frags would stay inside the ribcage then not so big a deal to me.

Personally I like 2 holes in an animal in case I have to trail them. Helps a bit. And I"m not so naive to know that even with the best of shots, and placement, now and then you have to trail.

And Heavy, no flames intended back at you, just an affirmation that the more holes internally, the quicker the death due to the trauma.

RE old Barnes fouling.... Yep that was a big issue. And then they didn't all shoot. I had an 06 that would not shoot em. And a 22-250 that shot 45s into about a 13 inch pattern at 100 regardless...
Have not seen same from Tsx or ttsx. They still don't always kill as fast as the ballistic tip type crowd likes though. FWIW. Plenty quick for me, but not for some.

Thats impressive on a decent axis. They can take some killing to die from what I've witnessed while guiding. And they are tough enough to stop some bullets. Never stopped any of the Barnes when we had guys shooting those though. but others they did stop. And a couple I had to shoot again before they got away.

Thats good performance on the axis for sure. I prefer a bit of insurance of course, and would have liked an exit too in your instance, but its done the deed for sure!

Couple of things here.

First and most importantly, poly tipped bullets in a tubular magazine can result in cartridge detonation in the magazine. The same is true with FMJ or other hard-nosed bullets. Hornady developed soft tips for their LeverEvolution ammo and FTX bullets specifically to eliminate the danger of mag tube detonations. Shooting Marlin .30-30 with a tube full of a cartridges using TTSX, Accubonds, Ballistic Tips, SSTs, A-MAX or other common tipped bullets would be a very bad idea.

Second, poly tips provide multiple benefits but not without some drawbacks. On the plus side, and most important to me, they help guarantee rapid and reliable expansion over a wider range of velocities. I had issues with reliable expansion of the old X bullets even at high velocity. When the TSX bullets came along I developed loads for several rifles and found them to be very accurate in all. Still, I couldn't bring myself to use them on game due to my experience with the older X bullets and repeated reports of TSX bullets failing to expand. When the MRX and later the TTSX bullets were introduced they had larger hollows filled with tips. Since then the MRX/TTSX design has become one of my favorites with no indications of failure to expand in any of the game we've taken, near or far. The tips also help increase Ballistic Coefficients over what the bullets would have with the larger hollows and no tip. All good stuff in my book.

On the down side, the tips increase bullet length which may mean having to seat the bullet case below the case neck (something I don't like to do). They may also come loose and jam the action when if they come out, never mind the change a missing tip causes in external ballistics. While antelope hunting this year my cohort had two cases of TTSX tips coming out. The second one jammed the bolt stop on his Rem M700 in such a way as to disable it. Every time he tried to cycle the action the bolt came completely out of the action. The errant tip was removed by some work with a knife and the root cause of the problem was identified as operator error rather than problems with the ammunition itself - it seems my friend wasn't seating the cartridges back in the magazine properly after emptying the chamber. When he tried to close the bolt it would pass by the case head, then hit the case wall, forcing the cartridge down. This downward action forced the tip down hard against the feed ramp, thus loosening it and allowing it to separate from the bullet.

The best feature of the tips from a visual standpoint is they help me quickly identify my ammo. Red for A-MAX/V-MAX/FTX/GMX/SST, white for AccuBond, blue for TTSX and my remaining MRX, and a variety of other colors for the Ballistic Tips.

Adam - I'd give 'em a try on game.

Have never recovered a Nosler from game, not even the little 95 gr Ballistic Tip from the 6mm Rem on mule deer. Have always had good penetration (completely through) and quick kills from the Noslers, be they Partitions, the old Solid Base bullets, Ballistic Tips and even an Accubond.

Don't have a lot of experience with the Accubonds though - only one bear at 300 yards. And yes, I cheated, using a 260 gr Accubond from the .375 H&H. That did the trick.

Regards, Guy

I think the poly tips are meant to serve two purposes. One is to increase ballistic coefficient. The other is to help initiate expansion. The old style Barnes X and even the TSX have a reputation for sometimes not expanding. I think Barnes added the poly tip to keep the BC high and have a larger hole in the copper on the nose of the bullet.

Oops. I didn't see coyote hunter's post. He pretty much explained it.

Don't get me wrong. Big Barnes fan and my 7-08 loves the 120 gr but I've never been able to get them to shoot near as well as the AB in the .257 so that's what I'm sticking with. I AM holding on the 3 boxes of .257 TSX I have though. Maybe next barrel!

Pugs, that Axis is a real good looking animal. I'd like to hunt them someday. The hide would have to be tanned of course!

Congratulations on two fine bucks!

in 257 wtby the TTSX 100s shoot REALLY well out of my buddies rifle. My rifle is still in the safe unfired like a handful of others that I"ve never had time play with.

After this hunting season I'm wavering on continued use of Accu-bombs. First game killed was a heavy mule deer in '08 with a .30cal 165grain @ 75 yards. Complete pass through the ribs w/soup within.

I had lost a lot of tips from those bullets within the box before loading. Shot the big hollow points for practice, shot just as well as the pointy ones. I seem to recall that the early ones had an issue with broken tips.

Fast forward to this season. I'd booked a trip to New Mexico with some family and friends and instead of working up new loads I figured I should spend my time practicing and messing with a new Leupold CDS scope.

Practiced a bunch with some Nosler seconds that were dirt cheap and loaded some first run stuff from Cabelas to hunt with.

Commenced to hunting in NM and found a hapless 5x5 bull @ 130yds. Once I gathered enough oxygen to put the crosshairs on him I put one in through the ribs into the lungs and liver. He hunched back and I put another into the shoulder. Not having hunted elk before I was suprised with the resilence of taking two rounds in one side turning around without looking ill at all and taking another round in the opposite shoulder and one just back in the ribs before getting sleepy and taking a nap.

Four rounds of 30-06 165 Accubombs @2900fps shot at 130 yards at a mid sized elk broadside [both sides] and no pass throughs. No rounds recovered but produced a very dead elk that only moved about 10 yards.

Fast forward to that evening I shot a smallish muley buck [too big for the dinkathon] nearly straight on nicking the shoulder creating a nasty mess. Blew out about 4 ribs making jello inside. I found that bullet in the opposite ham fully mushroomed weighing 119 grains.

Again a dead critter but no pass throughs. Allthough a small sample it seems I've had better luck with Balltips at deer at similar distances with my .243 and 30-06.

I don't see why you're getting so hung up on pass thoughs, but if you have to have them, try heavier bullets.

Sounds like you got some great bullet performance. I've found the 160gr 7mm and 180gr .308 Accubonds will pass through elk on broadside shots.

Most guys that want pass thoughs 100% of the time on elk shoot 200gr bullets, btw. And even then, they don't get pass thoughs all of the time.

I have one tanned hide already so this one didn't get done. I donated to the taxidermist. You'll hunt them the first time for the horns and hide and as soon as you get the meat you'll realize Axis may be the best tasting animal in NA. In addition, the Texas Hill Country is neat and they are a cool animal to hunt with their herd behavior more like elk. I encourage everyone to go try it.

If I could find what to me would be a reasonable cost, I'd shoot a couple axis does every year. Hides are cool. A mount is cool. The heck with that, the meat is super.

Re comments on another post about shooting accubonds without a tip. They may be ok on paper at 100 yards, but I can guarantee if you shoot longer, that won't be ok at all. I know for a fact that a bullet without a tip from a 223, 75 amax, hits 22-24 inches low at 600 vs one with a tip... FWIW.

We shot again tonight, he had 3 left in his mag from that box. Of course we forgot the chrony, but I'm almost positive that they were NOT shooting at max velocity. He has a Leupold VX-2 with the the crosshair then two dots under it (not sure what reticle that is) and he had the hold the bottom dot! I checked it and it was nearly 20" holdover! That's waaaay too much for a .270 WSM sighted in at 200!

The first shot was low and by the third shot he was on and using the bottom dot on the scope. Switched ammo to the different lot number box, and using the same POA he was a foot plus high. Got dialed in and of course blew the jug up like its suppose to.

I believe he has 2 more from that first box, if he finds them then we will chrony those.

It also makes sense if they weren't quite full power because he's always had trouble with his gun (Benelli R1) ejecting them...

I would have thought the AB would pass through the jug as well even at 300, that is until I saw it was factory Winchester ammo. For chits and giggles I would chrono your next couple of rounds from that same box. I have found a couple of rounds and even full boxes that were from 25 to yes 100 fps off due to inaccurate powder charges, primers etc.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE me some accubonds. The 250 grain out of my .338RUM is an elk hammer, and the 140 out of my .280 AI just kills them right in their tracks too. Have killed antelope, deer, and pigs with them too out of the .270 WSM.

This bull went boom/flop at 594 yards out of the .338 RUM this year. Recovered the bullet under the far hide. Didn't need no stinkin' blood trail.





All this being said, I'll happily use a Barnes tsx, ttsx, Nosler partition or E-tip, or even a Sierra Game King, Hornady interbond or Interlock if the gun shoots them well.

Shot in the throat patch with 7MM WSM 140 AB @ 40 yds. Bullet still going.

Quartering away Shot. 7MM WSM 160 AB. Broke off side shoulder and exited.


Shot thru shoulders with 7/08 using 140 AB. Bullet exited.


Quartering away shot. 7MM WSM 160 AB. Broke opposite shoulder and exited.


My son killed this buck. 7MM Magnum shooting 140AB. Quartering away shot and exited.


I've never found one in a buck and have only recoveered one in a hog that weighed 400+ lbs . Haven't tried them on milk jugs, but they have been flawless on whitetails and hogs.

Maybe it's the Brownings...all were shot with one.

KillerT....beautiful bull and great pic!

JM, great bucks and pics there too. I've only killed a few pigs so far with the 140AB and 7mag, one of them almost 400lbs. AB's polaxed those vermin, and all exited from 30-150 yards. They're easy to load for in both of my 7mags and very accurate.

This is interesting reading for me considering this is my first year loading 130 gr AB's for my 270. I have shot two animals with it this year...a whitetail doe at 200 yds, and a 300lb+ boar at 100 yds. Both animals were recovered easily, but there was no exit on either. Dead is dead, I suppose.

Last Thursday my 16 year old son shot an ~200 pound buck at 300 yards w a 140 gr AB out of a 7mm Mag.
Deer was quartering to him, bullet traveled the chest cavity, exited, entered the back leg, broke it, and exited.
As impressed w the bullets performance as I am, I was notably more impressed w the will to live of the animal, which, spouting blood copiously, traveled a LONG way on 3 legs.

Did you find the bullet in the animals?

Granted, most of mine have been popped with the 160AB, but the 140 has performed well when used.

I've used these bullets primarily out of (3) 7MM rifles (7 Mag, 7 WSM and 7/08 and (2) .30 caliber guns 150 gr. (30-06 and .308)

Shooting 130 Grain Sierra GK's out of the .270 I acquired this year, so no result on the AB 130 in .277

Wonder if there is a signficant difference in construction between the 7MM 140 and the .277 140?

I wouldn't think so.

you are right

dead is dead

but,a wounded and lost animal is long term pain for any hunter,especially if its a buck of a lifetime. ol big boy that just gets you alittle more excited than usual and you happen pull the shot and it lands dead on the shoulder blade instead of in the ribs and a 3 legged deer gets away. then you are on my side about useing a hollow point bullets for big game.its happened to 3 of my buddies that used them. i loaded for all 3. i now have 3 partial boxes of bullets that they will never shoot on deer .

just curious here: OP bullet travelling 3000+ fps at 300 yards or so? perhaps the impact velocity was too much stress on the bullet? perhaps too fast to begin with?

2500 fps MV may have provided a better terminal result bullet wise but still a dead critter? at 300 yards I guess I'm missing the mania with hyper velocity?

Over the years I've had more grief because of too little expansion that not enough, especially on deer sized animals. I can't believe any big brand well known bullet made for and recommended by the manufacturer for deer is not more than capable of doing the job it was made for. I think that some may retain more weight and penetrate better, although that can be over emphasized, all make venison. I have solved the issue for myself by using Nosler Partitions for almost all my hunting. I have heard it said and I say, "Load Partitions,go hunting, kill stuff and be happy".

well, there you go, Super T making sense.

Haven't used many AccuBonds but this cow couldn't stop them.

.338WM, 225g AB, ~262 yards.

If anyone has accubonds they do not want they can be sent to me I have a good home for them . Barns are great bullets if hunting at ranges that bc doesn't matter seen them kill very affectively but I'm an accubond guy all the way.