Yes, my buddy eddy bo built me a 223 AI in December 2013. I killed a couple does with it before he passed away. This year i got to try it out on a 215 pound 10 point. 50 yards quartering to me. Hit the on side shoulder (broke it to pieces) and the 64 grain nosler bonded made it to the last rib. 20 yards and it died. I also popped a couple does this year with the 75 amax. One was 180 yards and the other 230 yards. They died too. I expect I will continue to use it even if I'm labeled a stunt shooter.

congrats....nice buck......great cartridge !

Here we go.

But seriously, good shooting.

223 AI is a little bit over kill. I prefer a 222 with 55 sierra's.

55's are way too much in the .222. They are way too hard and will over penetrate. I'm thinking more along the lines of 35 or 40 grs.

+1

Rock on !

Haven't you guys realized by now that it is customary to post pics of scantily clad babes when speaking of the .223 AI??

clearly the .218 Bee is the next big thing.

Enough for deer?






Maybe antelope????






Obligatory babe pic...

Of course if I wanted to step up to shooting bigger deer I could use the 222 like my pard does....

deuced:

Very nice.

Pretty rifle too.

Yeah but thats one of those "little" southern deer. You definitely need a 223AI for the big northern species.....


( Except for the one my pard deuced......)




Stunt shooter.

My wife didn't think it was little when I had her drag it up the hill with me....

In that regard, the deer I kill get bigger every single year.....

Try this next time...

I've killed quite a few with a .22 WMR. Some with head shots, some with lung shots. None went more than 80 yards before they fell and the head shot ones all went straight down. I guess that makes the WMR "enough" but probably somewhat short of "ideal". I feel the same about the .223, even though I've killed a bunch with it with no losses so far.

Ingwe,

Look carefully at msu's scope. He has a tall elevation turret, (M1?) if it's a Leupy? Hard to tell what it is from that photo.

Now, look at yours...

I thought one needed an M1/Leupold (? FX-3, 6x42/M1) plus a .223AI to be uber cool here on the Fire...

DF

Dang stunt shooter. I was shooting some .223s that I got from ol' Eddybo last week. Sure miss him. He was going to barrel a 700 for me before he went to the Last Shoot.

The 22-250 has been killin deer in Texas for the last 40 years. Lots of guys use to take them out for does and a big buck would show up...still worked. 55grain Sierra for most. powdr

55gr sierras are they one of the better 55gr conventional 22cal bullets for larger game.My rifle does not like the heaver bullets and I do not want to shoot barnes so was wondering what is the toughest 55gr lead and cup bullet?

I have no doubt that rifle is a shooter when our old bud EddyBo finished working his magic on it, I miss that dude.

Congrats on a nice rifle and buck MSU.

Gunner

Why screw around?

Why not just get a 22-250 and be done with it?

well, if the regular .223 can do it...



65 grain Sierra

You damn big bore macho numbnuts...try a .204 on for size.

C&Cs by necessity as no .204 premiums/bonded/monos are made as far as I know. The Bergers may be fun to try though.




The .17 Rem and 25 HPs has worked fine on coyote sized critters, but haven't tried it on deer. Maybe this year.

Have you tried the Nosler Bonded Solid Base 64 gr.? I know it's heavier, but it's short and stubby. It's more about length than weight vs. twist. The 60 gr. Partition is another suggestion.

If those will stabilize, you'll like'em.

DF

Yep.

I've been waiting for a mono-metal .204.

DF

.221 Fireball - 45 gr Barnes X

Ive got a little 22 Hornet that fires that 45 gr tsx at 2900 fps, gotta try that on deer asap, nice little buck and rifle SCGN.

22 hornet 45gr tsx. Forget speed 13gr lil gun. Works well as does 40gr nbt.

You're the one that got me thinking my little Hornet rifle will work on deer Kaleb, with that exact pic right there.

I have an early .22 Hornet T/C Contender, Leupy pistol scope, Buehler base and rings.

Never thought about using it to kill a deer. Looks like it'll do the job with the right bullet.

DF

that wouldn't be legal here, there is a muzzle energy threshold we have to follow. no doubt it kills though.


animals care nothing for headstamps.

Basic 55 Grain Hornady with cannelure work good....

Right about bullet over headstamp...

It's hard for me to put my 26 Nos down long enough to pick up something else for hogs and WT's. Just too much fun burning lots of gunpowder...

DF

I've used the 64 Nosler Solid Base and the Speer 69 GK with much success out of my 9 twist 77 Hawkeye 223 Rem.

Seems by some accounts that I may be overgunned.

Naw, you not overgunned...

9 twist is a slam dunk.

I think someone mentioned a .22-250 and those are sometimes 12 or 14 twist. If the 64 BSB will stabilize, that's a good choice for most small to mid sized critters, as is the 60 NPT.

DF

The reason I opted for the 77 Hawkeye over most other BAs.

Can't say how tough the 55 Sierra is. Never used it. I did use the 65 grain Sierra Game King this past season and was not impressed. It broke up on a rib on a broadside lung shot from about 100 yards. Never had a 55 or 60 grain Hornady do that and I've killed a bunch of deer with both.. In fact, I've put the 55 Hornady through both shoulders of a mature doe from 80 yards and the core and jacket were still together just under the offside hide. All bullets fired from a standard .223. 65 Sierra's were loaded to 2900 fps and 55 Hornady's at 3200. Based on my experience, I'd have to say the 55 Hornady is tougher than the 65 Sierra.

So if you could pick one bullet as your do all load, coyotes to deer, what would it be? Keep in mind availability and cost as well. Something like the Hornady 68 or 75 bhp?

Scope is a swfa SS 10 x. Had to try one just to see if they actually tracked and held 0. It does everything big stick says. And I could even shoot a deer after legal light if I wanted to.

Gunner and school, eddy bo built hammers and this is one of them. He is missed around my camp too. I get a laugh every time I shoot a deer or elk with his rifles. I know he would be excited that his gun was shooting so well

My browning x-bolt in 223 does not like 63gr win. pp which is the bullet I wanted to use so I have been using 55gr rem sp which are just about gone I like to buy in bulk and do not like to spend a lot on bullets for a rifle that I use to shoot pest and a meat deer during a doe season.I have ok luck with the 55gr rem but would like a little tougher bullet.Is there a difference Hornadys with or with out the cannelure? How about the Hornady 60sp in the slow twist barrel and on game?

For me, it's the gun that does the picking...

My .22-204, M-7 feeds longer bullets well, due to the way I have the box mag set up. It like 75 gr SSII's over Varget.

In my custom Ranch Rifle and AR, both .223's, I'm working with 64 BSB, 65 Power Point and 60 NPT. The rifles will dictate.

Other .22 centerfires like different bullets because of twist, etc.

So, I can never pick a favorite, it's the rifle's choice...

DF

For me it would be the 62 ttsx so I could break shoulders, But I'd rather shoot amax at does and yotes and if a big buck walks out he catches it in the lungs or ear. I've used the 75 BTHP and it worked but it didn't create trauma like the amax. The 223 is like a golf bag full of clubs. Pick what the situation calls for

That 62 TTSX is pretty long and you'll need some twist to make it work. It should be hard to beat on WT and hogs.

DF

10-4 MSU, we were busting rocks out at 1400 with his big 338 Allen Mag in New Mexico, a finer tuned Swiss watch was never built.

I have used plenty of TTSX in .270 and up but not in .22. Does going up in weight increase expansion or just penetration in .224 slugs? If a 55 will punch clean through I would rather have the extra speed.

I think you are exactly right. Speed is your friend with mono metals. If a heavier bullet penetrated better, you wouldn't be able to tell....


FWIW I was never able to "catch" a 50 grainer after a dozen kills with it either.

I switched to 55s simply to increase the bearing surface, and hence pressure, and hence velocity. I really wasn't getting the speed out of the 50s that I can get out of a 55...

Ingwe, what's your favorite 55 TSX load for the .223AI. I'm thinking of trying those in my fast twist .22-204.

.223AI data is usually a good starting load for the .22-204...

DF

28.5 gr. of H335

This is an easy one Sierra 63gr SMP Varminter #1370, you can thank me later...

Thanks again Dober wherever you are.

I'm going to ask a question about a hornady amax
anyone used them in the past in a 75 grn ?
My daughters rifle
have used 55 grn hornady innerlocks in the past n every animal she's touched with it has died .
but wondered what it would do on deer

I have not, but Im pretty sure a couple members here swear by them in the .223AI for deer.

saw lots of good posts on a thread dedicated to the 223ai, you might want to check it out.

would you guys pick 55gr, or 70gr TSX for hogs?

55 gr TTSX....

unobtanium, in other words

I can get the 55's and the 70's easily. The others, not so much.

Or I could just bring the 1 in 8" bull barrel gun and choot 60gr Partitions.

i dont think any .224 bullet is large enough for big game animals but plenty of people seem to like them.not for me,but if you like it go for it.

It takes a lot of twist for 70 gr. TSX and it's hard to get the speed needed for a Mono-metal to do its stuff.

I guess if one had a fast twist .22-250/.220S, but even then, those 70's don't move that fast. And that's one long bullet...

I'm not sure why Barnes even made the 70. I have a few if you want to try them. I'm not going to be using 70's, for sure. I've had them for a while, can't remember what I was thinking when I bought them.

PM me if you are serious about 70's. I can help...

DF

You probably haven't read P. O. Ackley's accounts of hunting with the .220 Swift. What a fast, light bullet can do has long been documented and authenticated.

Now, terminal performance of bullets becomes more important, IMO, as velocity is increased. I think that's the discussion on the table, more than head stamp...

DF

I'd be interested to know what you do consider "big" enough in either weight or diameter?

where i hunt deer are up to 200lb gutted and there is a good chance that i may see a 500-700lb bear. i like at least a 120-150gn bullet.with a chance at a once in a lifetime buck or bear i'd just as soon stay well armed. i didn't say you couldn't kill deer with a 22 caliber bullet and i have done that.but i've seen big animals lost to smaller calibers to.

& just as many lost to larger calibers &/or "magnums" too !

Appreciate the info. The rifle is an AR with 1 in 7" nitrided barrel, which is fair to middling with 65 Sierras and not so good with 60 Partitions. I can easily obtain 55 and 70 gr TSX. The TTSX's are hard to find. I think I'm going to load both and see how it shoots.

I also have another AR with a 1 in 8 stainless barrel, and I'll probably try the Noslers in it as a backup plan.

Use enough gun.

To start a topic if a tiny round is enough is just a waste of our time.

Tiny tools and rounds cause failure.

Use enough gun and you won't have to ask!

I guess you didn't get the memo. We are supposed to sing the praises of the mighty .223. You can't be one of the cool kids unless you do.

As Stick just said on another thread, its easy to tell who does the shooting and who doesn't....

Ordinarily those with the most critique for the 22 center fires are those with the least experience with them.

Agree with Dirtfarmer...cant figure out why 70 gr. TTSXs were invented....you can get the requisite speed out of the 55s and they will penetrate more than enough for deer.

Apparently, a 222 remington is enough gun:

Thats what my pard discovered too...at 231 yards....

Personally I feel better with a 'bigger' cf .22 but the deuce is not to be despised ...







But those tiny little guns wouldn't pass muster on tough stuff, like African Game...

A real stunt shooter would shoot his deer two at a time with the deuce........

I like that pic

Maybe I can get two pigs with one 70gr TSX?

Even a lowly 65gr Sierra put this deer down in pretty quick order:




of course, the evil black rifle will further annoy Savage 99

All things considered, when you get laid off, and all you have is a deuce and a couple thousand reloads, you learn WTF your gun can do.

Seemed stupid that just because I got back to work I should tank all that experience.

Nor that the laws of physics changed just because I was getting a paycheck.

And I'll bet thats not even an AI......

I'm sure you've heard this a lot in your dating life and all IQ tests you've ever taken.

The baby gun boys think that when they shoot at a deer and it runs off that they missed again!

deer run after they're shot?

Since when?

Since they found out they were going to be stuffed in the trunk of a Chrysler 300.

Even dead deer have standards.

Dumbass Don talking about thinks he ca5 know again.

Sit down and shut up, Don. Let the hunters talk.

Nope and with a nitrided barrel, it probably never will get punched to AI.

I guess this one could get punched, but I have not heard how well the AI feeds & extracts, in an AR...



Or I should just leave it alone, and buy a RAR...

Nice critters even if you did shoot them

Exactamundo. What is this "runs off" you speak of?

This one time, at band camp...

Ok it wasn't band camp, it was out back, but anyway,

I remember the image in my mind:

a big doe at a surveyed 208 yards (I am a surveyor - so I checked it out later) and I put one high in the boiler room, and she literally stiffened up - like she was frozen, and held that pose for what seemed like an eternity, although I knew it was only 4.476 seconds.

Then she fell over.

And right there, I remember what my health instructor said in high school.

"Always remember, son. Speed Kills"


true story.

That is a pretty good question. Perhaps S99 needs a .270, if the recoil isn't too much for him...

Having used .22 calibers in killing between 60 and 70 head of big game, deer size, to me the most important factor is under what conditions will you hunt.. Long seasons, lots of game, little pressure, they work... It seems this thread comes up at least once a month..

It's the menstrual cycle of debates.

Don, and a few others, would have 'Chewing Gum' and 'Walking' as separate forums.

As long as negative opinions on effectiveness of the little rounds and experience with same remain in inverse proportion to one another, the debate will continue.

Always, but I dont mind the debate when someone can be rational and explain why. The poster who mentioned the 500-700lb bears is a good example. I can feely admit I would want more mass and umph if that was a likely target of opportunity and I did not want to ruin a skull.

I also have some 55TTSX in the mail, will let you know how they work out. Out of curiosity I will kill some wet phone books with them and compare them to the 110TTSX out of the .270. I do miss the opportunity to use pigs for bullet testing but thankfully they have not made it to Montana yet.

Ive been testing the 55TTSX on pigs, and will do more next week...

They seem to work

I hear the common sense debate on the bear potential as a downside for 22 centerfire.

I do have answers:



OR

That could open a whole nuther kettle of fish. I know scores of westerners who wouldn't dream on taking on a grizzly with a .30-30

But they feel the ultimate in confidence with their 44 magnums...( which have roughly half the power...)

My experience killing deer with .22 CF's goes back to the 80's and amounts to roughly 40 deer. I think they're adequate when used with reasonable care and skill. I don't think they're the ultimate deerslayers and they do have their limitations/shortcomings. Contrary to popular opinion here, deer can and do run off after being well hit with .22 cal. bullets and often leave skimpy or nearly non existent blood trails. Hence they might not be the best choice in heavy cover for someone whose tracking skills are less than exemplary. Of course this evaluation in all honesty may not apply with the use of modern "super bullets" like TSX'S as I've never used them.

Good hog medicine…

Man, that McFlame really flames...

DF

BH your synopsis is right on.The 22s aren't the ultimate...the new bullets help immensely, but great care and not a little skill must be applied. In the right hands they are truly as good as anything, in the wrong hands they are as bad as anything.

That bottom pic is the same rifle with a more pedestrian stock....


Henceforth, we will be celebrating the Flame!

Figures you'd be a flamer...

Jealousy is a sick passion......

Never understood that one either. I guess that heavy bullet and 'magnum' on the headstamp contains some super pixie dust stuff.

Don't tell my near 80 yo uncle that a 222 with old, off the shelf, WW ammo isn't capable of killing deer. He might have choice word or two for ya.

Yeah, the old timers mighta had it right. No one ever told Grandpa he couldn't kill elk at 200 yds with an open sighted .300 Savage.


Nobody told the elk either...

And, ole Gramps didn't have the advantage of a fancy Campfire education...

DF

Not trying to waste time, and sure wasn't asking I question. I was making a statement that the 223 is By FAR a great deer killer. Have fun shooting what you want and I'll do the same and I'll do so With MUCH less noise and kick. If you haven't picked up on it yet, nobody listens to you don. Heck you make me want to kill some with a 204

I have heard of people using the regular 223 successfully on deer. The barnes 55 grain tsx was made for that intent, I believe

msuhunter: I see you got to meet the class retard.


Savage99 is what we call a contra-indicator.Whatever he says, you can bet on the opposite

A weather gauge of sorts...

Follow the "black cloud".

DF

I have no idea why people would mess with a 223AI and all that troublesome fireforming when they could use the vastly superior 22/204 Ruger.

Or even a .222 Mag for that matter...

You need to be a Mensa to use the 222 Mag.

But wait....I am....and yet I do not use a 222mag.


I didn't get the memo.

Hmmm...

So, you're now our alternate Mensa...

You do know who the original one is (was)...

DF

If you were really in Mensa, you're undeniable logic would have brought you to the conclusion beforehand.

On the other hand, Mensa membership didn't seem to do much for Larry Root's "logical discourses"...

DF

Larry was actually in menstrate, not mensa.

IIRC, my youngest schwacked this gal when he was 12 so this was October '06; the year Tennessee regs changed to "any centerfire".

Ninety-five yards, Colt Match Target/S&B Short Dot w/ 75 gr. TAP. Crack-flop. The bump behind her left shoulder is the exit.

Is the TAP load an AMAX? If so it worked swell in a 'nilla 5.56 for a kid that can shoot...
[img:left][/img]

Just a wild assed guess here, but Im thinking maybe Larry being in Mensa might possibly have been another one of his lies. Just possibly. Dont know why I'd jump to that conclusion, knowing his credibility.....

Our other esteemed member in Mensa is Dan Adair...and he is at least smart enough to hardly ever post here.I apparently didn't achieve that level

I just checked Hornadys website and the TAP bullet is not an Amax......they don't say what it is....its BC is different than the Amax and at least what they have pictured has no red tip.
Your kid's deer however, appears to be very dead, even with the lower BC....

Yerp! He's a shooter. Dropped several more w that gun and a 788 .22-250. One shot apiece. He's been on hiatus from hunting due to girls and motorcycles and will soon be hitting 21 on Cinco de Mayo.

The 75 Amax is a little long for an AR, seated to mag length? I bought a box, but realized the ogive is below the case mouth.

I might have to actually buy a RAR, then AI it, to resolve this problem

I think we should discuss this at some length over a bit of Rebecca Creek.

Sounds like a plan!

You've got potential

All yall's overgunned. .17HMR w/20gr XTP is all you need. Pop 'em behind the ear so's they can hear what hit 'em.
WILL.

No tiny bullets are not enough for big game! Use enough gun for all hunting.

22CF is enough gun for the deer and circumstances I hunt in

I lost one I hit with a 200 gr. .35 Rem bullet about 35 years ago. Guess the .35 ain't "enough gun" for whitetails. Good thing I sold that POS and got a .223. Never have lost one with that.

I also took a doe last with Dad's old .25-06, launching 110 Accubonds. The two animals ran just about the same distance, 20-30 yards.

These aren't møøse I'm shooting here...

Yeah, lost animals have absolutely nothing to do with either bullet construction, or caliber.

The problem always is the "nut behind the bolt" !

well....they couldn't hardly get smaller now could they?

The .223 should only be used by experts for deer size game.

I agree with Sakoluvr. The .223 is an expert's deer cartridge.

They look like experts to me...

That "steely eyed" look gives'em away every time...

DF

Experts here only:


The exit side--Hornady 60SP

I'm gonna kill a deer with a .223 this year just cause.

I reckon I've been overdoing it with my 243 all these years

If you gotta ask, you already know the answer.

Minimum for deer is 30-40 Krag, or 303 Brit......everybody knows that.

I'm probably overdoing it with my 300 Savage.

Yep.

But, overkill is still dead...

DF

I was going to post a bunch of pics with a winded explanation and recommendation for bullet choices, and then I saw everyone else s post. Nuff said :-)

I'm looking forward to taking something with my 1-8 twist 223 this year,seeing how the 75 IMAX or 80 gr nosler perform.
Also have 62 tsx loaded for the 1-10 22-250 my son uses.

Clearly, with a decent bullet placed in the right place, the .223AI will do just fine, just like the straight version, and just like any number of other cartridges. Some states have recognized the fact that most hunters will use something that will help them be successful and elected to treat them like adults by allowing the use of smallbores. Others, not so much. Strangely, the government agencies that cull deer in parks and urban areas are generally using much less effective rounds in order to be unobtrusive to the public. As far as I know, they aren't leaving a bunch of wounded deer running around.

All that said, and even though all centerfires are legal for deer here, I don't use a .223 as I don't own one at present. Even if I did have one, I would likely continue to use the other, larger rifles as I believe they are a better choice for where I hunt these days. Folks that hunt where they feel their smallbores will be effective ought to be able to use them.

was calling coyotes last year during holiday doe season, carrying a .17 Tac rifle pushing 30 grain kindlers little over 4k, three does ran up to caller about 80 yards. Bang flop,one shot to base of the neck, fell over in her tracks stone dead. Put me down in the shot placement row.

you are just a poor shot thus you butt shot a deer once with a 22 and lost it. The little gun is easier to shoot, easier to hit with, usually very accurate and 100% lethal in my hands with mono metal bullets.

Just read what Blackheart and ingwe had to say about the .223 on deer.. They hit the nail on the head..

If you can shoot, it will work. If you can't, nothing will work.

Pretty simple really.

Again ingwe and Blackheart summed it up perfectly...

Again, if you can shoot, it will work. If you can't, nothing will work.

Perhaps too simple for some.

Not too simple but not everyone shoots their deer over bait, or more politically correct "food plots."