If you had to pick between either a .243 Winchester or .30-30 Winchester for your deer hunting this year which would you choose and why?

.243....I feel comfortable with a 300 yard shot with a .243....but not with a .30-30

Yep. 10 yards to XXX yards, I'm still picking the .243.

Aye. This ain't Montana, but the shots can be long.

Of course, I'll still be using something with a .284 bore.

I shoot most of mine at 50 yards or less, 100 yards is long. I'll take the 30-30

243 is a wildcat. It will never last.

give me the 30-30....

heck if it is North Carolina, and you are hunting swamps on the east side, or heavily wooded areas elsewhere.... I'd take the handiness of a 30/30.. if you are hunting in areas where shots are going to be less than 150 yds...has more to do with the handiness of the rifle they are chambered in..

if'n ya need further range than that.... then the 243...

both are more than up to the task at hand....

The good news is, you can't go wrong. Either cartridge works very well. Tailor your choice to the stand you plan to hunt and the type action you want to run.

Other than that, you are good to go.

I killed a decent buck this year the first day I hunted with a 30/30. I had packed my 243 the other days with 100% confidence. For me, inside of 150yds I'm good with either but if range can be longer then 243 all day long. I'm a fan of good bullets in the .243, 80 ttsx and 80 gmx are what I have experience with. I switched to the 95 Nosler BT after the reviews here but no test subjects this season. Pretty much any 150-170 FN/RN works in the old 30/30.

Its the best grinner gun ever.......

Same here. I do have an old .30-30 that was my first rifle and it gets taken to the woods for nostalgia on occasion, but the .243 goes frequently.

Both pale in front of the Mighty 270

oh hell.....

Either. Put a properly constructed bullet from almost any firearm through the lungs of a deer and you'll be eating venison.

I hunt deer in the woods and prefer the handling of a levergun so .30-30 for me. I'm typically taking shots at bow hunting distances so 150 yards of potential range is more than adequate.

I like them both a lot. Hard to pick one. But I'd likely go with the .243.

And it is not worthy of being in the shadow of a 7x57.....

True, but the 243 will do it 'longer'.

If you're satisfied with softball trajectory, the 30-30 is fine.


Jerry

.243 and for myself an 84 Montana out-handies every lever in more ways than just carrying.

Of course some would find it fun to drive across the country in a 1940's pickup. I don't happen to be one of them.

The 30-30 hardly has a softball trajectory, unless you're thinking about softballs thrown by Eddie "The King" Feigner.

Eddie didn't have an excessive amount of trajectory on his fast pitch.

Speaking of Deer, you need to get the winter issue of "Big Bucks".

Oh my!!!!

.30-30.

I've had better luck with bigger and slower than with littler and faster. I like the guns better. It's more suited to my preferred amount of timber and brush.

Why are these type questions always posed as an either/or decision???

Why not just get a rifle in both?!

An iron sighted 30/30 lever action would be a good deer rifle for stalking or hunting in brushy areas where shots are closer.

A scoped 243 bolt action would be a good deer rifle for stand or still hunting where you would have more time to plan the shots and shots could be longer range.

Besides more rifles is a good thing! - RIGHT?



PS: You wouldn't play golf with just one club in your bag!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good answer.

Not much difference really to many.

To me a 243 will do everything a 30-30 will plus some. I've not made 500 plus yard kills with a 30-30 ever. Wouldn't try it probably either ever.

Go with what you want. If you want most versatile, 243.

243 for both close and far, but i could hunt with 94 Win 30-30 the rest of my life and be happy

I'm comfortable to 250 easy with the .30-30. Have killed with it at 200-250 many times and past 300 once. All were one shot kills and none went far after the shot. The one at 314 was a pass through that took the top of the heart. It only went 30 yards before it fell. Of course you do need to know how to shoot. Scoped bolt rifles chambered for flatter shooting cartridges are good crutches/ training wheels for those who can't at those ranges. BTW I did choose between a .30-30 lever and bolt .243 on opening day this past season. Took the .30-30 as I often do and killed a good 8 point an hour and a half into the season. One shot from 65 yards, bang-flop.

Right, right.

The .30-30 WILL get the job done at those ranges consistently in competent hands. Absolute truth. No doubt it is easier with a scoped bolt chambered in a flatter shooting cartridge for those less competent.

Local paper ran a picture the other day of a 7 year old boy with the two deer he killed with one shot. Broke the deer's neck, passed through and head-shot the one behind it that he hadn't even seen. Used a Rossi single-shot in .243, and sat patiently for a half hour while his deer walked within 100 yards of his stand.

Just shows how little you really need if you know what you're doing (and your Daddy is sitting there with a hand on your shoulder). Happy kid, proud Dad, adequate rifle.

Yawn. I'm sure you're awesome.

curious that he wastes his valuable time hanging out on a forum with such inferior folks

Between the two, give me a 243 bolt gun. Thankfully, there are other, and I think better choices. YMMV

243 cause it's more versatile.

Yes, but the 7.62x39mm is just as good.

The only time I find a lever gun much handier than a bolt rifle is if its unscoped and bolt rifle isn't. In that case the lever carries better, for me. Since I hunt area's where shots are more often than not a few hundred yards or more, I rarely restrict myself to iron sights, so taking a bolt gun just makes more sense. Not that the 30-30 won't kill just fine in most situations, but so will the .243, and I really don't see where it gives up anything to the 30-30... 243 for me.

And that has hit on the point of the thread. Does the .243 give up anything to the .30-30? I don't think it does either.

Except that I've consistently gotten better penetration, more consistent exit wounds and better, more consistent blood trails out of the .30-30. If that isn't important to you then not much difference. At least when conventional cup and core bullets are being used in each. I've never tried Barnes so can't comment as to whether that might even things out between them or not.

Easy choice for me - 243

Same thoughts here! So it just comes down to range you're likely to shoot at and how well you shoot your rifle of choice. I've taken a number of deer over the years with a .243 and never had one go more than 30 yds. So I've seen no blood trail limitations.

I don't understand what the two cartridges are doing in the same thread. They're completely different in about every way.


What I did learn from this thread is that skilled,astute riflemen use 30-30's for 300 yard shots on deer,and incompetent dopes use a 243. I was not aware of any of this.

I'll answer that one for you Bob. Where I'm from there is often a debate between these two for a youngsters first rifle. Many times I've heard folks say the .30-30 is more potent than the .243 and leaves a better blood trail so its the better starter gun. Now my late FIL took the opposite approach and said that he would rather see a kid armed with a 243 rather than a 30-30 even for Bear! He said he felt the 243 was a better killer.

So does this infer that there is a high correlation between the cartridge used and the IQ of the user?? And would it follow that if one changes cartridges his IQ would change?? Anybody know where I can find a 44-40?

southtexas sounds reasonable to me.

I shot a 7mm Mashburn Super at 600 yards yesterday. I must be a real moron.


Pass the 38-55....please.

.243 for the ladies, kids and girlymen, real men shoot .30-30's.

when you mate a 243 with a 30-30 you get a 444 Marlin. for those of you who can't decide...

Or you could just learn how to hunt and get closer than 300 yards...

I'm quite certain we have some folks here that are the first generation in the family to walk upright.

I'd pick a .243 because I don't have a 30-30.

Been there, done that. What now?








Full disclosure: these deer were taken with a .45-70, cast bullets and black powder....I didn't think I could handle the lightning fast,flat shooting smokeless .30-30....

I'm from the same State and my first was a M98/8MM. Soon to be followed by a Model 70 .30-06. Should have felt sorry for those other unlucky kids. Facts are, even back then the .30-30 was dying out as the most popular Pa cartridge. Lots of .30-06, .308, .300savtage, .30-40 Krags. For the most part the bolt action had surpassed the lever. The Kids were reading the outdoor mags of the 60's and the lever was soooo much the rifle of the old farts. They may have had a .30-30 placed in their hands, but they wanted a bolt; most moved on as soon as possible.


Addition: Best friend finally believed me-Campfire made a believer out of me-that the .223 is enough for Deer. Since then his Granddaughter has killed three Deer with one. One managed to make it around 50 yards, the others much less. If my Grandkids stay on the small side and want to hunt, I have a couple of them waiting for them to start out on.

This is what my Great Uncles experienced when they moved from Wisconsin to Montana taking their 30-30s with them. When they put the sights on the shoulder the 30-30 broke legs, so they bought 25-35 M94 Winchesters.

I can't comment on a .243, never owned one. I have owned a scoped 30-30 less than a year and shot a nice buck at 75 yards, but it is sighted in to be 2.5" low at 200 yards so it is well within distances for most of the whitetails and mulies I have shot over the years.

Want to sell that carbine?

Show-off.


Been there, done that with a 30-30. Pass the 243, please.

Sorry....I was a lot younger in those pics and that carbine went down the road a long time ago.....just about when my eyes wouldn't let me shoot irons anymore, and I had to get a scoped .243

this entire conundrum becomes moot if you choose either a 6mm Remington or a 32 Winchester Special... just sayin'...

243. It starts better and ends better. Faster handling,brush busting etc., etc is a foolish myth. Not that a 30-30 won't work, as it has for well over a 100 years. I would just rather have a 243.

Great answers Bob......

I thought it because the 243 was on sale with a rebate

The best solution for rifle loonies is to neck down the .30-30 to take .243 bullets, and blow out the shoulder to 40 degrees. Then you can claim you're using the best combination of both rounds. (And yes, spitzer 6mm bullets will work in the tube magazine of a Win. 94 or Marlin 336. Just load one, and another in the chamber. Two should be enough for any real loonie.)

The alternative perfect compromise, of course, is to neck up the .243 to .30 caliber, and use Hornady Flex-Tip bullets for the .30-30. This is obviously the bolt-action rifle loony solution.

No azzhole, what you learned is that when a .30-30 is the only centerfire rifle you own, you can make it effective beyond what most folks believe it's capable of, if you can shoot. Well he was wrong. And I've killed a shytload of deer with both cartridges so I'm not guessing. I still use the .30-30 and .243 regularly and usually take a deer or two with each every season. Which I use just depends on how or where I'll be hunting any particualr day.

Up to a couple hundred yards, the .30-30.. Beyond that a .270..

And, of course, that's exactly the right way to handle things! BTW, how's that M64 you picked up at Whittaker's shooting?

Well his opinion was formed from spending his early years with a .32 Special and his later years with a .243. He felt the .243 was better in every way.

I can't see it. Especially at shorter "woods" ranges. I've caught several .243 bullets in deer with nearly broadside shots at close range. Particularly when shoulders or spine were involved. Had a 100 gr core- lokt stay in the neck of one middlin sized buck from 30 yards. Never stopped a 170 gr. .30-30 except for one on a lengthwise presentation and I've shot twice as many deer with the .30-30..

ratsmacker,

I haven't even had a chance to shoot it yet! But that's pretty common with me, due to so many guns that need testing. I have it on the schedule for an article in 3 months, so it will get done then.

How'd your fall go?

Well you could have said that in the first place instead of making yourself out to be some kind of superhuman hunting and shooting force of nature,like you usually do....AZZHOLE. You might have established some credibility.


But you blew it,as usual. I can always count on it.

So explain to me how repeating what you said makes me an AZZHOLE?

What a blow hard....

Well he might of been wrong. But we're all limited to building a conclusion based off our own experiences. And I've no doubt his 243 impressed him in ways his 32 Spl never did.

To me the appeal of the 30-30 is the package they usually come in. Both work. For all around deer hunting where longer shots might be necessary I would likely choose the 243.

AMEN BROTHER

I've been hooked on rifles since childhood. I can NOT count the number of rifles and cartridges that I have and HAVE HAD
but...


I had ONE 30-30, got rid of it in 1974.

Haven't missed it since ! ! One was enough for me.

I've killed deer as close as 15' (feet), 20--399 yds. There are toooo many better cartridges, AFAIC.


Jerry

That!

Plus coyote love the taste of 243's !

Different folks, different strokes.

Your bad experience, or lack of experience, with the 30-30 doesn't make it a poor choice for everyone. As noted previously, an expanding bullet through the lungs of a deer, regardless of caliber or cartridge, will result in a punched tag. One nice thing about the 30-30 is that factory ammo is generally accurate, inexpensive, and easy to find. I can't remember traveling anywhere that 30-30 ammo from at least one of Fed/Rem/Win wasn't on the shelf of a LGS and frequently on the shelf of some out of the way convenience store. When I owned a small chain of rural convenience stores, we stocked Remington ammo for nine CF cartridges;

223 - 55 grain
22-250 - 55 grain
243 - 80 and 100 grain
270 - 130 and 150 grain
7mm Rem Mag - 140, 150, and 175 grain
30-30 - 150 and 170 grain
308 - 150 and 180 grain
30-06 - 150 and 180 grain
300 Win Mag - 150 and 180 grain

EDIT: I have been looking for two CF rifles to give to brothers in Vermont. I was initially looking at 30-30s, Savage 340s or Mossberg 472/479, but decided to buy them Marlin XS7s in 243, as I can buy new XS7s for less than the price of a good, used, 30-30. Although the XS7 can be bought for $250 in 243/7mm-08/308, I have ordered them in 243 on account of less recoil and less expensive ammo. Also, they live in about as rural a part of Vermont as there is and I doubt that 7mm-08 ammo would be easy to find or as inexpensive as either 243 or 308. I'm going to set the rifles up with Nikon ProStaff 3-9x40s, Savage package gun take-offs, and I'm going to give each of them 200 rounds of Federal Fusion 95 grain factory ammo from the same lot. 200 rounds should get them up and running. I am also giving them a Marlin XT-22MR to share and to use for varmints around their family's small subsistence farm. The point being that I'm not "anti-243" or particularly "pro-30-30", I just try to be objective.

Can I be your brother??

I have the curse of being an only child.

I never said it was a poor choice for everyone.

"AFAIC" means As Far As I'm Concerned.

From my perspective, "I" prefer a 99 or BLR in 308, with or w/o a scope, to/over the 30-30.

No one has to agree with me. Some like red, some like blue. et.al.


Jerry

Different stroke for different folks.

Yeah, I read that the first time.


Jerry

I thought that perhaps you didn't understand the meaning.

Never hunted with a 243 until this yr bought my 9 yr old son a win mod 70 I've got a win 94 ranger 30-30 that has filled freezer fulls my son killed a small buck and I killed a decent 8 pt with the 243 by the autopsy results and shot per kill ratio I'd stick with the 30-30.

Right. And I have several 30-30's, Marlin and Winchester's. If someone is just in the mood to play John Wayne then a lever gun in 30-30 will kill deer. But the 94 and the 30-30 cartridge were a step backwards in cartridge and rifle development. Both were obsolete 3 years before the 1st rifles and cartridges came out of the factory.

A 243 does everything better close or far.

America was a nation of lever action shooters before 11/11/1918, so Winchester's development of the Browning-designed 1894 rifle and 30-30 cartridge were totally logical at the time.

Say what you want, but the Winchester 1894/94 has been sold in greater numbers than the Rifleman's Rifle Model 70, even if the lever action and rimmed cartridges were as long obsolete as you seem to think.

I use a .243 for much of what I hunt, so it's a no brainer for me. It's light, accurate and flat out kills stuff. never lost an animal to it and I've killed lots in the last 20 years. used others here and there but keep going back to ol trustworthy. 95 gr NBT over RL22 is a deadly combo

Have you used that 95 NBT on elk? How did it do?

We ( myself and nephews) have killed a number of elk with the .243, but always with a 100 gr. flat base Hornady ( No longer in production.....but I have a stash)

Im loving the 95 NBT on deer....

Ingwe I read somewhere that the guy who designed that bullet did so with elk in mind and did use it on elk successfully

Where the hell do you get the idea that the 94 and the .30-30 cartridge were a step backwards ? At the time of their introduction, {1895} the .30-30 and .25-35 were the FIRST AND ONLY smokeless powder SPORTING cartridges on the market. It {the .30-30} and the 94 were leaps and bounds ahead of the Win 73 and 92 and the black powder .44-40 which up till that time were the most popular deer rifle/cartridge combo's going . Sure there were some heavy, fat, ugly bolt action MILITARY RIFLES and smokeless MILITARY cartridges that predated the .30-30 94 by a few years but they weren't available to the sport hunting public and what deer hunter in his right mind would choose to carry one of those clunky, butt ugly, poorly sighted contraptions over a 94 ? of course the 1895 Winchester in .30-40 Krag was introduced the same year as the .30-30 but it too was big, ugly and heavy compared to the 94 and without scope sights it offered little advantage to a deer hunter while puking up alot of negatives in the handiness/handling/carrying department.

Heck, I hunt both of them and everything dies, 0-300+, with either. The .243 seems to wreck stuff worse and is easier to shoot through tiny windows in trash, past 100. OTT, I don't really care which one I hit a deer right with: it's dead.

243 for us around here. I've actually never met anyone that used a 30-30 here. Did hunt with one guy that used a 32 WinSpecial, and tagged a nice buck that day.

Different geography, different traditions, different rifles.

Growing up in New England, there was a long tradition of deer hunting and lever action rifles were a common sight in the deer woods. Having lived in the midwest for 30 of the last 35 years, I only recall seeing a lever action rifle while deer hunting a couple of times. There isn't a long tradition of deer hunting in Kansas and Nebraska. "Modern" rifle deer hunting in Kansas only goes back to 1965 and back to 1945 in Nebraska.

Based on the hunting that I do, the .30-30 in a lever gun seems about perfect. I am certain that the .243 is a great cartridge but I have never been a fan. If I am looking to go further down range, I tend to go bigger than a .243.

Same for me. Virtually all of my hunting these days is done in woods/forest around here. No farmland, no fields, just woods. I've used multiple bolt actions, autoloaders and pumps chambered in everything from .222 - .30-06 over the years. Have found none to be one bit more effective where I hunt than my trusted old lever action .30-30's.

yup, it works on elk too

I had to blood my old Marlin 336SC this year. I picked it up last winter, and it was eating at me to shoot something with it, so I potted a nice doe this fall.

I used Winchester 150 Power Points, simply because they were available and cheap, and they killed the deer quickly enough. She ran (downhill, of course) about 40 yards, but she left a Stevie Wonder blood trail. Easy to find her, and she was only about 30 feet off a logging road, so I was able to get her out with an easy drag to the road.
I don't think I'll load for this rifle, I don't shoot it enough to bother, and besides, trimming cases to get a good crimp is a pain in the neck.

Even if though not 'needed', the Barnes 30-30 HPs are wicked effective. Also, while I load 95 NBTs in 243 that I'd take over any of my 30-30 loads past 200, those factory fusion 243 loads have seriously wrecked some deer for us. I'd say any hunter that doesn't have and find a use for both of them, is missing out on some fun/productive shooting packages.

Very nice pun, Sir☺️☺️

Both are good choices for deer rifles.

I have, & use both.

To me, the choice of which one to carry on a given day depends firstly on the where & how I'm hunting.

Out to 100 yards, whether it's from a tree or a blind, it's an either/or choice, as both will adequately get the job done. Often, nostalgia dictates the lever.

Still hunting the woods, its the .30-30.

All other situations, .243 every time.

ratsmacker,

Good deal on the doe!

Yeah, as I noted in Gun Gack, you can handload the .30-30, but for most hunting with a lever-action there's no real reason. Factory ammo is cheap, abundant and it works.

I took my last animal with a .30-30 a little over a year ago with an old Model 94 borrowed from a Texas guide after the scope on my rifle (a .243, by coincidence) went screwy. We ran into a couple of eating-size pigs while heading back to the range to see if the .243's scope could be straightened out, so he handed me the 94 and I sneaked within 30 yards. It was loaded with Power Points as well, and one left a very good blood trail--which we didn't have to follow very far!

Here is a ballistic comparison of the 2 cartridges, using heavy for caliber, readily available, factory ammunition.



Sourced from Gundata.org

Food for thought !

I'd like to throw in my support for this. This is exactly how I ended up, and after trying to get the results I wanted with a Marlin 336 in 30-30, I finally ended up with a Savage 99 in 308 Win and it has been my favorite deer rifle for over a decade.

My biases with the 30 WCF come more from expectations than anything else. Up until I got the Marlin, I had not killed a deer with anything other than a 30-06 or 12 GA slug. It did not help my opinion when the first deer I shot with it appeared wholly unfazed.

Ode to a 30-30 Pt 3 --- Like a Dog Returneth

It also did not help my opinion of the 30-30 that a lot of my neighbors carried them and used to unload their magazines at the deer in futility. However, this is something you would expect from folks that routinely tried 300 yard offhand shots. Their beer cans still litter my woods.

In regards to the .243 WIN, I have very little experience. My sons are all walking landforms like myself, so after a year or so on the 30-30 they switched off to 30-06. I never had to come up with a traditional yute rifle. However, I have a grand daughter now--celebrating her 4th birthday this weekend, and my interest in .243 WIN has been renewed. My only observation comes from the years I've spent here and elsewhere reading other folks' opinions.

It would see to me that 243 WIN shooters as a class seem to be the most concerned of any with premium bullets and bullet failures. This bullet explodes. This one pencils. This one failed on a shoulder. That one went in a ear and bounced around, etc.

I even remember someone wondering if it would not be better to take two different loadings out. Their favorite long range bullet seemed to blow up at close range, so they were looking for a second round they could toss in if a target showed up inside 50 yards. I offered the advice that I would stick to one loading, but let the closer animal wander a bit farther before shooting.

I don't mean to impune either of these august chamberings. However, I must say that, in the case of .243 WIN, would one of my favorite .308 165 grain Hornady Interlock SP's fail, I would expect the largest chunk to weigh more than a pristine .243 WIN.

As Jerry said, AFAIC.

Does the 30/30 in this scenario have to be a lever gun? How about a Bullberry barreled Encore? Old 788 maybe? That Encore with a 2.5-8 Leopold would be pretty slick here in the east. I'd likely feel a little different if I lived where the country is wide,and the wind blows all day long. Just a thought.

I been contemplating this question. For a beginning shooter I would want to consider the age skill and desire the beginning shooter has. I would also like his input as to which action they liked and if they can see and hit using the sighting system on the firearm. I would also want to consider if they liked firearms to collect and cherish, if they liked hunting coyote or if they viewed a firearm as a tool to accomplish harvest. If for instance the beginner liked to sneak around and stalk game. Loves rifles as something to care for and would rather fish then hunt coyote perhaps a vintage 30 30. If the beginner wants to post up and wait till he gets one, can use a scope well, and doesn't mind modern plastic bolt actions the the 243. They do have nice lever 243s and nice 30 30 bolts....but it appears on paper for deer the 243 is way more versitle with the added varmint advantage. For me personally I like vintage wood and 30 caliber rimed cases please.