My girlfriend is guna use her 260 for elk this year. what do u think would be the best bullet for her to use? i handload so my options are unlimited.

I really think we should place bets on when someone will say........

I say before 11PM central standard time, someone will say it....

Barnes TSX 130 grain, and hitem right where huntsman22 hits em, his seem to fall down right away!

140gr Partition or 130gr TSX

Wife hunts with a .260, last year we switched to the 130 TSX for all big game. That makes it easier than re-zeroing between the 120's and the 140's she used to use.

Is there 3 in it?

There is no way a .260 is adequate for elk, just as the 6.5x55 Swede is NFG for moose.

A 6.5mm-06, now that's the ticket - sooo much better than the wimpy .260! I'm in process of building one and have a box of 130g Scirocco II's sitting on my desk...

A 140g A-Frame, 130g AccuBond, 140g Partition, 130g TSX, or even a 120g TTSX should do just fine as well.

Good luck to your girl friend.

130 TSX for everything, or the 120 Ballistic tip for everything.

The 120 BT is (I'm told) the same as the 120 7mm designed for the 7mm rum, but swaged to 6.5mm.

Holds together like a partition, flys like a matchking.

6.5 No good for Elk, but make Elg real dead. Scandinavians seem to use equally the 139-140s, 156, & 160 grainers. This is primarily woods hunting and they know how to shoot or they don't get a license.

Laker I know my 6.5/06 will kill an elk! As matter of fact, I did so with a 25/06 once but that is no feather in my cap, everything that day was perfect. The elk stood broadside, distance was under 200 yards and that Nosler bullet did what it was supposed to do.

Now to answer the original question, I would bet even money that at a reasonable range (under 200 yds) that .260 Rem. caliber in a hunting rifle, will smoke an elk but there are certainly those limitations remember. I like the idea of the 160 grain bullet myself for elk or moose.

Plenty of 12 and 13 year old boys and girls thump elk every year on youth hunts with 243s.

260 is just fine.

Doesn't Nosler offer a 160 grain Partitian? That's the ticket!

WhenI used to visit Sweden on business in the 1980's, I knew several old timers who used the 6.5x55mm on Swedish Elk (Moose to us). They never seemed to have a problem. Just hit them where it counts.!

Personally, I don't feel there is a best but there are some darn good choices.

129 Horn
125 Nozler

would be my first two choices

Dober

If everything goes right, starting with getting close enough, the .260, 6.5x55 SE, and even a .223 Remington may kill an elk in its tracks.

Then again... things aren't always perfect.
Would your rather pass up an unethical shot because you are using a marginal cartridge?

I am not bashing the .260 Rem, just noting that, everything else being the same, a .30-06 or .45-70 at a reasonable range is a whole lot more of a sure bet.

The last time this came up,Lee24 who admits that he has never killed an elk,said cartridges in the class of a 260 were too little.

I'm not sure how he knows having never killed an elk. I have killed a few elk and I'm pretty sure the 260 with a good bullet in the right spot will be perfect.

It is actually hard to find anything much better than the 260 and 6.5x55 when you are looking for something to take elk sized game without a lot of recoil.

But then again I actually have hunted and taken game with a 260,perhaps it's better to listen to Lee24 who has not.

I got a hankering to try my 264WM this year on wapiti cow.

And I wasn't even thinking about using the magic boolits, just some ole green box 140 gr cup & core.

But if I can get some dies by then & talk a friend into helping me figure out a load, i might take some of them there fancy boolits along.

I would probably pass up an unethical shot regardless of the caliber/cartridge.

If recoil is a real factor in the decision process, as it sounds like it might be for the original poster, then a .260 or 7mm-08 would have to be top o' the heap. I've brought a 7mm-08 to elk camp a couple years, and though I never killed an elk with it, I didn't feel undergunned. I loaded 150-gn Partitions for what that's worth.

If recoil ISN'T a real factor, well... my opinion is that there's "better" elk cartridges than a .260 out there. But let me add that's not based on killing them with a .260. It's just based on the size of the critter, the terrain I've hunted them in, and seeing a half-dozen or so killed pretty decisively with larger calibers. Decisive = good with elk, IMHO. A little overkill doesn't suck <g>.

daveh's dad used a 243 on elk, and I think he still does.

killed a bunch of them from what I hear with Remington 100 grain corelokt bullets.

I'd use it in a hert beat. I've toted my 6.5 Swede several days afield, only no elk to smash. Btw I saw some penetration tests somewhere and one of the best penetrating bullets was the Hornady 129 SP. Maybe someone saw the same and can give more info.

Joseph

I believe Alpinecrick has also whacked a bunch of elk with a .243. It has to work, if the hunter does things right. How could it not, really?

But, it's not quite that simple... I've killed two deer with a .22 rimfire, and both were POLEAXED. But the conditions were very controlled. I wouldn't hunt deer with a .22 RF.

Anyway, I've carried a 7mm-08 elk hunting, so I'd carry a .260 and be pretty darn sure I could kill an elk with it. No argument there. For the original poster's needs it's probably pretty close to ideal. 7mm-08 being even closer <g>.

So a 150 7mm out penitrates a 140 6.5mm??? Don't stress it, just go shoot the thing.

ruraldoc,
I have not killed an elk with a .260 or a .30-06, but I have killed animals a lot bigger than an elk with a .30-06 and a .22 LR.

If you want to make a case for using a .260 on elk, go ahead.
Merely attacking other people doesn't do it.

If you have any actual experience with the .260 Rem or 6.5x55mm Swede, please relate the bullets, range, results, and whatever else you care to add.

I like the 6.5x55 Swede and respect it. But I own enough different rifles, and have owned over 200 in my life, that I don't get an emotional Ford/Chevy thing going over them. Some people only have a pair of pliers and or Crescent wrench. I like to have a complete set of wrenches, and use the best one for the job.

Ok,

Post some pictures and prove it,and while your at it post the pics of that Model 70 that you lied about.

Liar,liar.....

pants on fire.

No offense Lee, but any seasoned elk hunter knows the .260 is a perfectly adequate elk cartridge. Period. There are many fine elk calibers and the .260 is one of them. Maybe some time in the elk woods would show you the truth.

I'd be for thinking that anyone who feels that the 260 is under powered for elk is incredibly under experienced...

Dober

Perhaps that is because he doesn't know the #1 moose killer in Sweden is (or at least was for many years) the .260's balllistic twin, the 6.5mmx55.

Or maybe he believes that what is suitable for moose is inadequate for elk???

I used 140 gr Partitions on the two elk that I killed last year with my .264 Win Mag. They were going a lot faster than a .260 can propel them, but I got complete penetration through both shoulders. Those bullets
And ND, if you've got a .264, then there's all the excuse you need to start handloading. It's time brother.
Nosler's manual shows several loads in the 2800 fps range with a 24" barrel in their .260 loadings. Those 140 grainers have the sectional density of a 190 gr .30 cal, if that helps give you some perspective on their penetration potential. Also, BC is near .500.

What kind of MV are you getting with your 140 NP's? (in your 264)

I think you are right about reloading for this one, very limited factory offerings.

Is there anything special about the 264 WM bullet itself that sets it apart from say a 6.5mm? (go easy on me, it's all so new to me, all I know is that it's a real treat to shoot, so far I love it)

I've heard mention of a special "2 step" bullet or something to that effect for the 264??

130gr Barnes TSX = one dead ass elk, if they dont shoot good go with the 140gr Nosler partition.

As far as the 6.5mm 120gr ballistic tip being a swaged down 7mm 120gr, i find that hard to believe, what did they do paint the tip another color? Man gotta love these internet rumors......

The experience I have with the .260 on elk is very limited, but in that one case, a 125 grain Partition proved to be quite lethal.

Sorry to hijack a little here, but a veteran needs it.
Dave,
The special 2 step bullet was just in Winchester's original power point loading. None of the current aftermarket manufacturers use special two-steppers.
I'm getting 3175 fps using 65 gr of IMR 7828SSC, it's a published max load, I didn't make it up. But I've also got a 27.5 inch barrel to really wring the velocity out of that cartridge. The standard factory loads only do 3030 fps, and that's advertised, not actual. There's a lot left on the table. Someone on here gave me some of Mule Deer's loads from a past article, most of which were too hot for my gun. With Retumbo, I've gone over 3350 with 140 gr Speers, but it was erratic, some of the loads were closer to 3000. Not sure why.
Anyway, you can really open her up beyond .270 Win levels with handloads. The penetration is fantastic and it's still a mild recoiling rifle, not some Ultra Mag.

Wow!! Ok hey thanks & sorry guys for the temp derailment.
When I'm ready to do something with the information I'll post questions about the 264

Sorry guys, & thanks Exbiologist

Back to .260

Northern Dave, I always had the hankering to own a .264 Winchester magnum in a pre-64 model 70 Winchester. One thing lead to another along lifes dusty trail and I just never was able to confront my wants with enough cash or Uncle Same had better ideas.

Years later I found 2 very such rifles in a gunstore, one completely wore out for a tidy sum of $750 dollars and I mean it was one of the worst rifles I have come across. The barrel was shot and the stock had been pinned fixed a couple of times, very little if any blueing on the metal that was badly pitted in several places. Not to meation cracks were still in the wood stock.

The other rifle was indeed nicer but the price was $1,450 dollars and the throat was not good either. I passed and decided to go the route of a 6.5/06 rebuild on an old 30-06 model 70 I picked up for a right price decades ago. This project gun would help to heal my wounds, over not being able to find my much wanted .264 Win mag rifle for my price.

I still have a hankering to own that .264 Win mag for my collection but have only a small regrett, I do believe this 6.5/06 is the cat's meow for a low recoiling, deep penetrating hunting rifle on small to medium game and would not be ashamed to go to elk or moose camp with it over my shoulder using premium bullets.

And I too still have a hankering for a Pre 64 M70 in .264 Win Mag. I didn't like the prices I was seeing, so I ended up spending twice those prices by building myself a custom maple stocked Super Whodonnit (as my Mainer friends called it when I showed up to still hunt whitetails).

But back to the .260, as for reasonable range, I'd say even beyond 300 yards with a .500 BC bullet you're only looking at 8.5" of drop when started at 2700 and zeroed at 200. That's easily within the body of an elk if you're from the "hold on hair, never on air" school of thinking. Expansion should still be sufficient as you'd be doing nearly 2200 fps still. And that's pretty close to the muzzle energy of a .30-30. So yeah, don't hesitate to take the .260 out for elk.

That 6.5-06 sounds like a pretty cool little hot rod to me.

The 6.5x55 SE was very popular in Sweden because it the military used it from 1894 through the 1980s. Rifles chambered in it are very common. In Canada, the .303 Brit was the most popular big game hunting round for many years for the same reason.

Today, the .308 and .30-06 are more often used for moose, according to those who hunt there, and by the game warden records and ammunition sales. Other powerful Continental cartridges like the 7x64mm and 9.3x62 are often used.

I used to work with Swedes and Danes who hunted moose and red stag. Lots of the moose hunters now show live video on web cams, so much that work productivity plummets as those who cannot get off to go hunting watch it from their desks.

I carry a 264 win mag and I currently shoot 140 gr Barnes moly xlc's. Can't find them anymore so will switch to 130gr tsx's when I run out. Haven't put one in a wapiti yet but it pole-axed a big mulie at 200 yds. Rib going in and coming out and everything in between.

Barnes TSX

Like anyone believes a word you write...

130 TSX = Meat in The Freezer. You Do Your Part, and They'll Do Theirs.

The reason why a particular cartridge is less important than how effective it is. Data from a few years ago (around 2006/2007) show the .30-06 to be more popular by a slight margin with the second most popular cartridge being the .6.5mmx55. The .308 Win was a distant third.

Interestingly the compiled data showed the average number of cartridges used to down the moose was 1.5 for both the .30-06 and 6.5mmx55 while the .308 win washigher at 1.7. Average distance the moose traveled before going down was 43 meters for the .30-06, 41 meters for the 6.5mmx55 and 38 meters for the .308 Win.

Clearly the 6.5mmx55 is no slouch when it comes to being able to take moose effectively.

Cartridge / # of Moose taken

3006 1,938
6.5 x 55 1,717
308 Win 943
9.3 x 62 306
375 H&H M 265
358 Nor M 192
338 Win M 111
7mm Rem M 75
300 Win M 25
458 Win M 18
416 Taylor 17
270 Win 7
9.3 x 74R 7
9.3 x 64 5
460 Wby M 3

Coyote Hunter, I remember reading about a friend of Grits Grissom's years ago and his friend called Whiskey, killed all his elk with a .243 Winchester under 150 yards. Not that I would give it a go but it has been done by several hunters in the past.

Coyote Hunter,
Thanks for the latest breakdown on Sweden.

Certainly the 6.5x55 or .260 Rem will kill an elk cleanly.
If you think a .270 Win with a 130-gr bullet is adequate, just figure what you think is the maximum range for it, then reduce that by 75 to 100 yards for the .260 with a 130-gr bullet going 300 to 400 fps slower. You can do the same with a 140-gr or a 150-gr bullet.

Thanks for posting the actual data,it pretty much proves that the 6.5x55(and the virtually identical performance of the 260) is plenty of gun elk sized game.

And it pretty much proves(for maybe the 260th time) that Lee24 is an idiot.

Therefore the 260 is a useful thingy.

And Lee24 is useless.

I think the .260 will kill elk fine, although it would not be my first choice. (I have killed a cow with a 6.5-06, as well as having stayed at Holiday Inns, but not last night.)

But I am beginning to have my doubts about the applicability of extrapolating the Swedish moose research data to elk hunting here in the western US. I have had the opportunity to visit Sweden a couple of times in recent years and spent time in their forests (but not hunting). With the exception of shooting from stands over clearcuts, most of their shots are going to be short, and retained energies therefore relatively high. The close shots are a combination of thick forests and very flat topography.

Out here in the West, there are certainly shots that I would be happy to take with a 30-06/300 Win/338 Win that would make me queasy if all I had in my hands was a .260 Rem.

Moose are obviously as large, or larger than, elk. I've never hunted moose so let's get that disclosed up front, but my impression from virtually everything I've read about them is that they "die easy", in the sense that it's typical for them to stand there looking at you, then keel over after a while. Or at least, common.

The measly two elk I've killed died pretty quickly, though I hit them with a LOT more than a .260 will deliver. However, looking at the elk killed by guys in my camp in the last 8-10 years, and from what folks say that I talk to in other camps, you can get into some real rodeo's with elk. A determined animal can really make your life hell in terms of recovery.

So... just saying that moose and elk are perhaps a similar test of a bullet and cartridge just from a "meat" perspective, but, are they really comparable in terms of the general "hunt"?

A question, more than a statement. Thanks.

If one can shoot an elk with a "bow and arrow" with total confidence why would you hesitate to use something as proven (scandanavian hunters) as a .260?.

Multiple dead elk experience including a nice 6 pt. bull with a .260 Rem. - a 140 gr. TBBC will tip them over - period. A couple of them straight down. None lost. They are like the 28 ga. - just kill better than they are supposed to.

Sure nice to see the good things said about the .260. I have been praising it since day 1 and still there are rumors its days are numbered. Nope, never killed an elk, but we have killed some very large boars (very tough bullet testing material) with the plain 140 CL's.

stumpy

I wouldn't hesitate, remember I hunted 'em with a 7mm-08.

But, just for fun, just because a longbow will kill an elk, doesn't mean I won't choose a compound if I were to go bowhunting elk, you know?

Over here it is against the law to shoot ANY animal with an "arrowed projectile".This is a terrific topic if you want to get people all het up.I know it is possible to cleanly kill any animal with such as, i know it is possible to do the same with the .260.
Instead of worrying about it and busting an elk then shooting it up the arse then worrying about "shot" placement, just go out and hunt and if you get busted you shouldve looked more and walked less.

I think you are crossing me with Atkinson perhaps? He talks about Texas Heart Shots on elk. I don't. In fact I passed on that shot on the bull I ended up killing a few minutes later, this last year.

Anyway, no fight here. We agree. .260 is going to work within it's limitations...

140 grain Partition.

I would not use a 120 grain BT, as I have shot a few dozen whitetails with that bullet and have never gotten through/through penetration. With elk, I want a tougher bullet that will hold together, penetrate, and break bone if necessary. I have not shot anything with the 130 grain AB, but if the performance of the 110 grain .257" AB is representative, it would also be a good choice. I have always thought that whoever coined the old saying "small bore, big game, break bone" knew what he was talking about.

Anybody who says that a 260 isn't gun enough for elk, in the hands of a hunter who can shoot, is using a tough enough bullet, and knows where to put that bullet, is full of $hit.

Jeff

I like the 156gr or 160gr bullets in the 6.5x55 but the 130-140's in the .260. My 6.5x55 has a faster twist than my wife's 260. Her .260 doesn't stabilize the 160's.

Rather than switch between the 120's & 140's depending on what she's hunting I started loading 130gr TSX's for everything. Her 260 shoots them well.

Jeff_0

No fight here, I was just using the reply function.

Most moose in Sweden are shot at rather short range, compared to elk in the US. Most hunting in Sweden by individuals is from high stands (like treehouses) overlooking clearings and trails inside 100 yards.

Much of the hunting is done in drives, with as many as 70 or 80 men, with a few group permits. The men divide the meat from their quota of moose. The shots are very close.

It is the opinion of a lot of 6.5mm fans that what makes these rifles effective hunting weapons is that they don't operate at high velocities. They seem to work best with 140 grain bullets at 2550 to 2,700 fps muzzle velocity, because they don't expand violently and decelerate quickly, and retain more weight, so they penetrate very well.

Sorry i didn't mention it before but those were Montana elk not Swedish ones. ;-{>

The red stags in Denmark are as large as our smaller elk, like the Roosevelt.

Our smaller elk the Roosevelt...?

The Roosevelt is our largest NA elk.



http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_you_tell_if_someone_is_a_pathological_liar

If I was out on a hunt, stubled on an elk, and had my 260 or 6.5x55BJAI, I would put a couple through the vitals.

If I were going on an Elk hunt, I would grab one of my 35s...

If a stick and string guy can take an elk, quality bullet would do the same...


I prefer larger dia. holes in my elk, but if it was presented to me.. HELs ya..

So, is Lee24:

A = A pathalogical Liar
B = A slimball Liar (see wiki)
C = Smarter Than Mycroft Holmes
D = Freely admits that he is a pathological liar, but doesn't care, because his whole life has been a series of outrageous lies, like claiming that he is a member of MENSA international
E = All of the above
F = None of the above

Jeff

huh?

He's obviously never seen a big Rossie! To funny.

Wow.

The larger Danish red stags weigh 650 to 700 pounds, which overlaps the smaller bull elk of North America.

I spent a month working in Seattle last year, drew an elk tag and got to do a little hunting. I did not see any bulls that were any larger than that. Having lived in Colorado as a boy, and worked in Wyoming one year, I have seen a few elk of all sizes.

But I am not the one who is trying to make a case for the .260 Remington being a jim dandy cartridge for members of the deer family which weigh between 350 (cows) to 1,000 lbs (largest bulls).

Some few people here have experience using the .260 Rem or 6.5x55 SE on elk. I would rather hear from them, than someone who just wants to play Internet Psychologist.

You have heard from them!

Yes, I sorted the few with experience using the .260 Rem and 6.5x55mm on big game out from the Peanut Gallery.

No one disputed anything I said about the .260 Remington, but some of the PG crowd went into the usual insult rants. I used to have a .260 Rem in a Ruger 77, which I sold here on the campfire, and bought a 6.5x55 Ruger 77.

Lee24,

Don't you get it?

NOBODY believes ANYTHING that you post, because you DON'T HAVE ANY CREDABILITY!

You'd have to be at least 150 years old to do all of the things that you claim to have done and to know all of the famous people who you claim to know. Doesn't it bother you that dozens of people have called you a PATHOLOGICAL LIAR and have challenged you to post documentation of the degrees that you claim to have earned?

Jeff

Lee24,

On average you can't compare the body mass of a Rosie and that of a Rocky. We have both here in washington state. I've seen ginormous bulls in the blue mt's along with some very large bodidied cows on the Canidian border up in the Selkirks(Idaho,Wa< Canada borders.

After living on the wetside for the last 16 yrs everytime I go east and see elk I sorta wonder if they are sickly. Yep, skinny little pups.. There is the occasional exception.

Racks on the other hand are a whole differnt deal. Rockys are king.

I still remember the first time I saw one of those Roosevelt bull elk! It had 5 x 6 rack but not huge by any means, however it's rearend looked like that of a quarter horse and this bull had missed no meals.

It was one heck of a big bodied elk, the largest I had ever seen in the wild. I betcha that bull had another 200 pounds of extra body weight on his frame compared to those in Yellowstone and Colorado where we hunt.

Of course the .260 won�t keep up with the .270 Win � case capacity wins. A better comparison would be with the .308 Win. Looking at Nosler loads:

6.5mmx55, 140g Partition, 2830fps
.308 Win, 165g Partition, 2910fps

Zeroing both for Maximum Point Blank Range for a 6� target, at 400 yards the 6.5mmx55 shoots flatter and has more velocity than the .308 Win. Also at 400 yards the 6.5mmx55 has 1438fpe, compared to 1611fpe for the .308 Win. Although it has less energy at all ranges yards, at 400 yards the 6.5 still has enough for most tasks, including elk. Neither would be my first choice for either elk or moose at that range.

It does seem, however, that regardless of trajectory and ballistic information for ranges longer than those at which most game is taken, the 6.5mmx55 does in fact keep up with the .308 Win and .30-06 when one measures the average number of shots required to bring Swedish moose down and the average distance the moose travel after being shot:

.30-06 = 1.5 shots, 43 yards (1,938 moose)
6.5mmx55 = 1.5 shots, 41 yards (1,717 moose)
.308 Win = 1.7 shots, 38 yards (943 moose)

If you want to compare a 6.5 to the .270 Win, let�s try the 6.5mm-06. I�ll let you do the math as I did it a couple months ago and decided to build the 6.5mm-06 as a result.

Jeff �

It really depends on the kind of hunting you do. Since I began hunting big game in 1982 I have never taken a shot that I could not have taken just as easily with a .308 Win. Or a .260 Rem. 350 yards has been the maximum, with everything else under 300 yards. That includes elk and deer and antelope taken in open sage country.

I would not feel particularly handicapped if I was carrying a .260 Rem and saw a bull standing out at 400-450 yards. Placement, not the cartridge, would determine the results.

http://www.realguns.com/calculators/taylorkofactor.html

Those animals can't read

Dead is dead, the stats from Sweden show that, put the bullet where it needs to go, and they die.

Long ago, an article was written 'One good load' or something along those lines in an annual Handloaders Digest or similar. The authors bullet of Flav was the 125 partition. He used it on Elk, deer, etc. w/o fail at various ranges. Cartridges were 6.5x55 and 6.5/06.

A hotter 6.5mm will kill further out, i.e. whatever a 264 mag can/will do, a 260 does at a slightly less distance. I have only killed one animal over 300 yds, a deer at 400.....w/a little pipsqueak 6mmBR spitting a 105 amax lumbering along at 2840 mv.

The 125/129s and 130s i.e. TSX and Accubonds are IMHO 'Just Right' for a 260 case in a short action, esp. considering most barrels are twisted at a rate of 1 in 9 inches.

I completely intend to use a 6.5x55 or 260 on a Moose if I can get a trip to hunt with a cousin in AK scheduled. Otherwise, if I get a 6.5x47 Lapua built, I will use it. I have no doubt as to the results if I do my part.

That's right: a 6.5x55mm is like a .270 Win (or a 6.5-06 or .264 Win Mag ), if you get 100 yards closer. With a 6.5BR or a 6.5x54mm Mannlicher, you can do the same, if you get another 75 yards closer. I sold my 6.5 Mannlicher to a friend you used it in Africa on several large antelope, at the appropriate range.

A good friend of mine, who grew up on a ranch in Montana, killed his first elk with a Marlin saddle gun in .357 Magnum, with a 158-gr Peters jacketed semi-wadcutter - a complete pass through at 80 yards, breaking ribs in entering and exiting. He didn't ever try it again, though.

260Remguy,
The correct answer = D

I would believe Menstrual International....

I am confused about this deal about getting 100 yards closer with a 260 than with a 270...
Out to 300 yards, the 260 lags slightly behind the 270. At 300 yards it catches the 270 with many bullets and then surpasses it in velocity.
So, if you see a bull elk at 299 yards, and you have a 260, you need to sneak up too 200 yards... But, if you see an elk at 302 yards, do you still have to sneak up to 202 yards?
What about seeing an elk at 302 yards and you have a 270? Do you have to sneak up to 299 yards so it has more power than the 260???
This is very very confusing to me, and if any of the experts here could educate me on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I have killed a small handful of elk with a 270 and didn't appreciate the complexities of relative energy, velocity and all the other stuff.

Thanks in advance.

Royce

Coyote Hunter I can tell you up close and personal like, that a moose is twice as easy to put on the ground as a mature bull elk. Moose just are not that hard to kill and drop with a decent bullet and well placed shot. They may take a little more time to fall over than a deer but they will do so in less than 3 to 5 minutes.

The above statement shows that our resident squirrel, Lee24, has never seen nor killed a friggin' elk, much less a Roosevelt. They are typically considerably bigger of body than our Rocky Mountain elk.

And if you've ever wrestled with a dead Roosevelt bull on a muddy Coast Range hillside, amongst the catclaw and wait-a-bit, you know what true misery is.

No wonder I have the gentleman on *ignore*

Kinda dangerous, actually, because someone might actually take comments like this seriously.

Steve

Steve
This is the truth of the matter- As mule deer migrate up mountains, at around the 5122.756 foot elevation mark, they begin morphing into elk. As they get higher and higher up the mountain, they increase in size until they reach maximum size at approximately the 7348.9678 foot elevation If you subtract the elevation the elk is at from 7348.9678 and add it to 5122.756, you'll get the per centage of the median weight the elk of any specific age groupd of elk. People often lump Teddy Roosevelt Elk in with Franklin Deleanor Roosevelt elk, and that, in conjunction with not accounting for the elevation the elk lives results in confusion as to their size.
Once you use my simple formula to determine median elk size, you can divide that median size by ten to get the case capacity of the cartridge needed to kill the elk- ie, 600 pound elk need a cartridge with 60 grains water case capacity.
Then, divide the ballistice coefficient of the bullet by 0.6 to find the maximum range you can shoot at- It's all simple-
Don't believe me, ask Lee!!!
Fred

LMFAO!
Good one Royce

Good one Royce, and you explained it so well it all makes perfect sense!

My brother-in-law used to live on the Olympic Peninsula, just outside of Olympic National Park and we went over there several times to fish and hike around the hills. I was quite impressed at the bodysize of the Roosevelt elk. Even the cows had a heavy deep-chested look to them. They were noticably bigger than our Rocky Mtn variety in these parts.

True, but even better is the little know fact that if one can get an albino platypus above 28,000 they become supermodels. Of course, that means Everest, K2 or Kangchenjunga.

Yeah DZ,

I'm very surprised that there are some here who even converse with this person.

As I posted before on this thread.

Here is a proven description of Lee.

"dentifying a Pathological Liar

Pathological liars, or "mythomaniacs," may be suffering from histrionic personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder. The following comments basically reflect a pathological liar who has the characteristics of histrionic personality disorder.

Some characteristics:

1. Exaggerates things that are ridiculous.

2. One-upping. Whatever you do, this person can do it better. You will never top them in their own mind, because they have a concerted need to be better than everyone else. This also applies to being right. If you try to confront an individual like this, no matter how lovingly and well-intentioned you might be - this will probably not be effective. It's threatening their fantasy of themselves, so they would rather argue with you and bring out the sharp knives than admit that there's anything wrong with them.

3. They "construct" a reality around themselves. They don't value the truth, especially if they don't see it as hurting anyone. If you call them on a lie and they are backed into a corner, they will act very defensively and say ugly things (most likely but depends on personality), but they may eventually start to act like, "Well, what's the difference? You're making a big deal out of nothing!" (again, to refocus the conversation to your wrongdoing instead of theirs).

4. Because these people don't value honesty, a lot of times they will not value loyalty. So watch what you tell them. They will not only tell others, but they will embellish to make you look worse. Their loyalty is fleeting, and because they are insecure people, they will find solace in confiding to whomever is in their favor at the moment.

5. They may be somewhat of a hypochondriac. This can come in especially useful when caught in a lie, for example, they can claim that they have been sick, or that there's some mysteriously "illness" that has them all stressed out. It's another excuse tool for their behavior.

6. Obviously, they will contradict what they say. This will become very clear over time. They usually aren't smart enough to keep track of so many lies (who would be?).

Here are some ways to tell someone is a pathological liar contributed by another WikiAnswers Contributor:

* They lie about even the smallest things. For example, saying "I brushed my teeth today," when they didn't.

* They add exaggerations to every sentence.

* They change their story all the time.

* They act very defensively when you question their statements.

* They believe what they say is true, when everyone else knows it isn't.

Here's an alternate "checklist":

* Lies when it is very easy to tell the truth.

* Lies to get sympathy, to look beter, to save their butt, etc.

* Fools people at first but once they get to know him, no one believes anything they ever say.

* May have a personality disorder.

* Extremely manipulative.

* Has been caught in lies repeatedly.

* Never fesses up to the lies.

* Is a legend in their own mind. "

What are you doing, writing Lee24's obituary?

Jeff

SU35 must of gotten tired of fantasizing about himself / herself.

Why don't you .260 Remington fans pose the question of its suitability for elk hunting to some hunting writers who have a lot of experience with elk and have seen some marginal cartridges in action?

By the way, I wouldn't consider the .270 Winchester a 300-yard elk cartridge, either.. But then, I have never been in a hunting situation where I couldn't stalk to within 200 yards of any animal, unless there was a canyon or big water in between us.

As I have said before, if you are good enough to shoot the heart at 300 yards, then it isn't much of a hunting challenge to shoot game at 300 yards. If you aren't good enough, then you need to realize you are too challenged to be taking those shots.

I know this to be true. I know because one summer my niece was a Park Ranger Assistant at Wallowa Lake State Park in NE Oregon. The "Question of the Year" that summer was one posed by a lady camper who asked, "When do the deer turn into elk?" She was dead serious so obviously knew something about it.
I don't know what they told her, but I hope it was as informative as what Royce has shared with us.
This is one of the reasons I frequent here; to pick up bits and pieces of factual information. My niece will be so happy when I share this with her!

300 yards is well within reach of a .270 for elk. Alot further in the right hands. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot that far on the right opportunity. As for the .260, its every bit as good of an elk cartridge as the guys here have been saying. Gun writers or not, they have as much experience in the elk woods as anybody. This is a fact and people would be wise to listen to it.

Some of you guys did not know that Lee has a new book coming out.

It's called "The Purpose Driven Lies".

The first line in the book goes like this " It's All about Me."


It gonna be a smash.

Some years back ADF&G transplanted Roosevelt elk to Alaska, both here in SE and also to Afognak I. Near Kodiak. They have done extremely well and are utterly enormous, with individual animals approaching the weight of moose. Moose are bigger, no question, but I knew a game biologist that witnessed one hoisted onto a fishing vessel here in SE ungutted that went something over 1,300 lbs. I can't remember the exact weight, but this is no exaggeration. Wolves just can't eat one of these animals as fast as they can a Rocky Mtn. elk.

1flier

dogzapper, having wrestled a few blacktails out of those slippery canyons of the coast range... I cannot even imagine getting an elk out of some of those places. Seriously.

It reminds me of a story I read somewhere... I think on rec.hunting, back in the newsgroup days... where a guy talked about killing his first elk (a Roosie) and finding himself knee deep in guts at the bottom of a god-awful hole, and just about breaking down crying <g>.

Then again, over in Eastern Oregon I've worked my way into a few spots where I then had to b!tch slap myself because it would dawn on me that even if I saw an elk, no way was I dumb enough to SHOOT the damn thing! That's always fun, when you've spent a couple hours getting there in the first place.

These threads always end up in the same place. Will it kill it? Of course. Is it the best choice for a person who isn't recoil-sensitive? Probably not. Round and round it goes <g>.

Like, uh, Dogzapper?

Sometimes, or most times, in elk hunting, No pain No gain. Just the nature of the beast.

You mentioned earlier in this thread the tenacity of elk to stay alive and that bigger calibers probably help put them down. Won't argue that point at all but I was amazed the other day on a different forum when a member posted a video of his buddy shooting a decent sized mule deer buck at 200 yards with a .50 BMG. That deer ran 75 yards before it piled up. That was tenacity to live if there ever was one. I've come to accept that elk die where they want to die regardless of caliber. There are times and places where bigger is better or a good decision rules the day.

Oh yeah, I've had a couple deer run where it was like "what the HELL?!" The little dude in the picture below took a 200-gn Hornady at about 2600 fps at 20 yards, from my .358. Then he ran over 200 yards with that hole through his lungs!

Pretty sure Rost495 has a tale of witnessing a 50 BMG shot deer go a ways, also.

What it comes down to for me is that a larger cartridge has more ability to "do work", as a physicist would put it. The work at hand being the crushing, liquefying, tearing, smashing etc of tissue. I'll take all I can handle when it comes to elk. Perhaps as I get less "mad at 'em" I'll think otherwise <g>, but for now, I'll smack 'em with all the cannon I can handle.

(which is my .338 WM or .325 WSM for what that's worth)

Nice buck.

You guys up in ID, OR do hunt some serious vertical feet and dense forest. Most of CO seems to be more open to a degree. There are some really punishing places here and I've dropped a big bull in the bottom of one. Straight line was a 1/2 mile from the truck on the map, but in reality it was longer than that. All vertical hill and dale. Miserable pack job, but worth every minute of it.

Seriously? That guy was TINY. It was last day of the season, I'd just got back from (unsuccessfully) hunting elk, and had decided to shoot the first legal deer I saw. He was the unlucky one. They have to be forked horns to be legal. He was... barely.

Tender little dude, though <g>. And well bled-out.

The .338 Win Mag is the gold standard for elk and big bears.
There probably is a good reason for that.
The .325 WSM would be right there as a niche elk cartridge.

What are Boddington, Wayne van Zwoll, and Rick Bin carrying for elk? What would they say about the .260 Remington?

Boddington recently fell in love with the .270 on an elk hunt. Wayne used to push smaller cartridges in his earlier works. Have his articles out of the RMEF magazine Bugle to prove it. Don't know Rick Bin so I cannot say what he's said.

The .338 may be your gold standard, but I think most of us that have been elk hunting for a while would be looking more at the .30-06 or .300 Win Mag as being the standard. Nobody I know out of dozens of elk hunters uses anything bigger than the .300WM..................... You're clueless Lee.

But then again I forget that knowing you, you've probably consulted on the creation of elk and elk hunting.............

The .338WM is a dandy elk cartridge just so everyone knows that. Can't think how a guy would go wrong with one.

Not to get between you guys, but you do see a fair number of .338's in the Oregon elk camps. My buddy Jerry uses one and has DRT'd two elk with it in recent years. I carry mine on the days I don't use my .325 WSM's.

Then again, you certainly see more '06's, 300 WM's, 7-mags, etc than you see .338's. I think it's the reputation they have as hard kickers (which I don't get, mine is a pussycat).

The .325 does dandy on elk, I am happy to report!

Anyway... don't want to hijack this... it's a comfort to me to use a lot of gun on elk. Even if all I'm getting is some meaningless comfort out of it.. for now, I'll take that and be happy. As I say, maybe later in life with more elk under my belt I'll be less "mad at 'em" and decide to see how lighter cartridges do.

Good hunting to all of you,

-jeff

Certain places call for certain cartridges. I've got no bones on that and the .338WM has no flies on it for elk hunting. Excellent cartridge? Yes. Gold standard? I'd have to say no. Even Wayne Van Zwoll has been polling hunters in his home state of Wash. for decades. And the .30-06 always stays at the top of the list.


For me, the .338 is out of my recoil tolerance. I'm sure I could learn to shoot one, but have no need. I've got a .300WM and its plenty. I do however, do 98% of my hunting with a .270.

Didn't mean to start a pissing match, but just couldn't leave this one alone.

Happy hunting fellas.

You know, the 300 WM seems to kick harder to me than a 338. It's sharper. My 338 anyway is more of a BIG push. My Sendero is 300 WM and even in that heavier rifle, it gets my attention.

But I hear you. To each their own. Certainly, if a 338 (or whatever) is out of a persons recoil tolerance then they'd be stupid to hunt one; they'd shoot poorly.

All this is makin' me want to go shoot my .338! It's been windy and rainy, but it seems to have broken now. Think I'll haul ass up to my long range spot and do some damage <g>!

Good hunting back atcha Kelk!

-jeff

If you are looking as shots being "ethical or unethical", then they are so regardless of choice of cartridge.

A larger cartridge will not make something unethical more ethical...atleast in my opinion.

Well... a 500+ yard shot on an elk with a .260 is probably unethical.

The same shot from my .338 isn't.

But in general, I agree with you CLB.

Lee,

Many people here have already told you they have used the .260/6.5x55 with very good results and there are thousands of people who do not post here who embrace this cartridge each season and fill there elk tags. While you might not be trying to "build a case" for the .260, you are certainly trying to dispell it without and sound reasoning or obvious first hand experience.

Jeff,

I do agree that 500+ is a stretch for a .260 on Elk.

Point I'm emphasizing here is that it's Lee's attempt to tie morality to cartridge size has no validity. It's either you are going to touch the shot off or you are not. And if one is going to use the .260 in that case, the person probably ha enough experience to pull it off. I would hope.

A shot with a .22 Hornet or .260 Remington might be unethical, whereas the same shot with a .30-06 or .338 might not.

I have owned a .260 Rem, 6.5x55 and 6.5x54.

CLB,
Most of the posters here have confidence in their various 6.5s, but no experience in shooting elk or moose with them. Some brought up Sweden, which is why I replied that the .30-06 is more popular there, with the .308 close behind. If the closets weren't full of 6.5x55s, there wouldn't be any more of them bought new there than there are here.

Lee,
You spent a Month in the State of Washington and drew and elk tag!

Do you know how difficult it is to draw an elk tag for even a resident? I have been putting in now for 12 years and still have not drawn.

Lee, What Game Unit did you draw for?

Lee,

What animals have you killed larger than elk with the 22 LR?

SU35, you guys don't have over the counter Roosie tags?

Not getting in the middle of a fight, just curious.

We can buy them OTC here- though I'm not sure if that's true for a non-resident.

Now, whether a guy even WANTS an OTC Roosie tag is a whole other can of worms <g>....

We have over the counter roosie and rocky mountain elk.

Lee said he drew a tag.

He had to put in for the tag. I'd like to know what unit he drew for.

There are no easy tags to draw here.

Lee,

AGAIN.....for the third time.

Our smaller elk are the Rocky, not the Roosevelt as you statement says

Kelk,

+1000 on 1st hand experience from people here.

In my book, 1st hand trumps all hypotheticals. Plus shooting game in the heart at 300 yds is always a great challenge no matter how often you have done it. Even more rewarding if you can do it on command at that range....

LEE, take this as a basic clue.

I have yet to see an elk take 3-5 minutes to go down. 40 yards max on those I have shot, and only 2 made it that far. Total time in seconds, not minutes. But the largest I have shot is a 6x6.

Where's Lee?

Maybe he's looking up the WA State Fish and Game site to figure out where he drew a tag from.

I believe you were quoting Boddington on the previous page. Boddington never thought much of the .270 Win as an elk cartridge either - until he took one at over 400 yards with the .270.

I don't know what the best one is,and I've never used a 260 to kill an elk,but an educated guess is that a 125 or 140 Nosler Partition is not gonna do an elk any good......likely, it'll kill'em.

No doubt,there are others as effective.

Actually, while the .30-06 leads with the 6.5mmx55 a close second, the .308 Win is a distant 3rd, not �close behind� as you claim. Unless you consider about 50% as �close�.



Your argument is a red herring and irrelevant. The fact is the 6.5mmx55 continues to be very popular. And it works very well on Swedish moose, as the statistics clearly show.

Hey - aren't you the guy that claims to have invented the Internet, designed the Space Shuttle, and engineered green grass and blue skies or some such? I think SU35 has you pegged pretty well.

I bet his perfect rifle for elk hunting would be a South Carolina stamped, Mod. 70 chambered in .375.....................

Lee,

See this is the problem I'm having with you at this point. You are just not being consistent in your approach. In previous posts (above) you claim to have taken animals larger than a bull elk with both 30-06 and .22lr but you just told me that using a hornet or .260 is probably unethical. So, basically you need to choose which side of the fence you want to be on. Otherwise, your interjections are moot.

I know the history of 6.5's in sweeden and the '06 here in the U.S. Your point about them is irrelevant to this topic.

With peepsights and a LOT of practice for dead away dark stuff elk it is hard to beat.

Wayne

Wayne, you are probably right on the money with that. However in Lee's case, this rifle don't exist.........

This is Internet Elk Hunting,isn't it? The most Elk killed by one man that I know of(my Neighbor) was done with a 25-06 and Noslers..The second best number, for those who count, was with a .270 Winchester and 130 Noslers,one man again.

It is all about hunting and shot placement plus a good boolit not caliber..Just common sense and knowing when to pull the trigger and when not!

Course I live in Central Ideeho so I am not up on this flat land Elk stuff.

Jayco

CLB, you just seem to want to argue, but can't follow my points about the 6.5x55 being used by only a minority of hunters in Sweden.

I grew up ranching. I have had to put down a mad bull with what I had on hand, a .22LR. One shot between the eyes. I wasn't worried about ethics then, and it wouldn't have been my first choice. I have seen deer killed cleanly with a .22 Hornet, and have killed deer cleanly with a .223. I am sure that, with enough skill, short distance, and luck, a elk could be killed quickly with one, too, but that doesn't make them elk rifles.

Somehow I just knew you were going to say you killed a cow, er "mad bull" by shooting it between the eyes.

Like that is relevant to this post.

And what does ethics have to do with it. That's the way they've been doing it for a long time now.

A mad bull,,, was it mad at you or did it have rabies and was attacking you?

btw, what unit did you draw for here in Washington?

SU, You gonna go on another rattlesnake roundup, I mean bear hunt this spring? That was probably one of the best hunt stories I've ever read, and was wondering if Round 2 is going to happen.

That was a really cool story.

SU35, we're putting in for Hells Canyon spike elk tags this year. Weather permitting, I plan on at least a night or two backpacking into the canyon- a spike camp off our main camp, which will be at the edge of the wilderness area. None of us can afford a drop camp this year.

We'll be south of where you were. Hopefully south of the rattlesnakes <g>.

I won't be carrying a .260 <g>. Which is a decent illustration of these things from my perspective at least. Lots of cross-canyon longer shots in Hells Canyon, I'm told. IIRC, your bear was around 500 yards, right? Anyway... I'll bring the .338, set up for longer range with the 225-gn Accubond, and my Kimber .325. If I'm going to shoot an elk at 300+ yards, I want something that really delivers the mail, as they say.

From another site:

Elk hunt with the 6.5 Creedmoor
hunter223
Staff Sergeant

Registered: 11/18/07
Posts: 799
Loc: Odessa TX just got back this evening from northern New Mexico and shot an elk at a lased 502 yds with my 6.5 creedmoor loaded with 120 gr tsx's. The bullet's passed through the chest cavity, no problem. Left a HUGE blood trail. Exit wound about the size of a golf ball. first shot dropped her in her tracks(right behind front shoulders) then, she pushed herself with her back legs about 10-15 yds. shot i squeezed another round off the hit her directly above the shoulder in the spine. her head dropped and she stopped moving for a couple of seconds then, she picked her head up and put a round behind the ear and that was all she wrote!. nice cow elk approx. 685lbs. the 6.5 creed has plenty of power for elk. shot placement is key as with any cartridge.

Top


That's 502 yds........good shot, adequate killing power. A stretch, probably for the ctg, but it worked, so I say at more common ranges........GTG

Lonny,

No round two this year and I'm done with snakes and Hells canyon.

6.5BR I saw a picture of this elk that he killed over at SH. It was a calf that went no more than 250 lbs.

If I remember correctly he was from Texas and he Texasized it.
If you know what I mean.

This thread cracks me up. Think a 54 cal roundball has a chance against these modern age elkies? Going to give it 7 days in Sept trying to find out.

Wow 685 lb "approx" cow elk. The Texan might want to take "approximately" 200 lbs off his estimate. And he head shot her with his third, presumably hurried, shot at 502. Hmmmmm.

Exbio,

Check out this picture of the 685 lb elk from the site.
I say a generous 250 lbs and no more.


http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=908906&page=2

TFF!!!

SU35 shoots bigger bodied muledeer bucks than that little bugger...

Yep, that's been exactly my experience too. I think the 6.5 is as deadly as it is because the recoil is so mild that the shooter instinctivly places his shot correctly instead of yanking the trigger away from the sight picture.

Wayne

TFF!



I bet your old man kicked your ass for 'killing' the bull. Classic Bullchit!

SU,
Well that is an adult cow, not a calf, but she's got very thin front and rear quarters, exaggerated by her swollen gut (was she gut shot also, then left for an hour or two?). I'd say she above 250 which is typical for a largish calf, but below even my estimate without seeing her of 485. I'd put her at 400. She's very lightly built, but doesn't quite have the look of a yearling cow, just a dang small adult cow elk.
But that's just a scientific wild-ass guess.

So you are claiming the second most popular moose cartridge in Sweden is used by �only a minority of hunters� when the .308 win you tout is used by half as many as the 6.5mmx55?

Must be the �new math� at work...

Well, I guess your guess is as good as mine.

That elk doesn't look much larger than some of the good sized caribou we kill - and I've killed more than a dozen; less than two, with my 6.5 Swede and they died very quickly. And since so many of the Scandinavian moose I've seen pictured also don't look much different in size than that cow, I guess it stands to reason that they would be killed quite effectively by said caliber.

But to keep things in realistic perspective, I offer this shot of two 140 Partitions which were stopped by larger game in the form of a rather ordinary, certainly not huge, Alaskan moose:



They made it through the chest on a broadside shot which included the legs, but not the heavy leg bones. Two 140 A-Frames followed the same general paths but didn't get to the hide. Any of the four shots adequately ventilated the lungs and would have been lethal. This animal still allowed plenty of time between shots to glass and and ensure that this one, among a group of several, was the same and only animal being shot. There are undoubtedly better calibers for very large game.

Swift A-Frame 140 grains

I appreciate hearing how you came to that conclusion.

My guess is that if that elk weighs 685#, that rifle is about 5 1/2 feet long. That would explain it.

I make no claim to be a judger of elk size.

However, I was told by my hosts at the ranch that my Colorado cow had to have been 600 lbs on the hoof. I know she was DAMN big in person. So, for reference purposes:

LMAO!!!

Are you kidding me?

there's no way I'd give that calf 200#

maybe that picture is of the fetus that fell out of a 685# cow when the cow hit the ground?

I got no prob with a guy takin a calf, we take one or 2 in our group every year I've been able to go. But if you have to do surgery to find the ivories & when you pull them they are the size & shape of house cat teeth.... well that's no cow brudda.

Dats a kaff

Jeff-O --

Don't you feel somewhat ashamed for taking a dink like that?

Here's a pic on of the hunter223's "685 pound" cow discussed on snipershide.com followed by a pic of one of the two cows I took in 2007.

That is a big cow, Jeff!
nice...

Northern Dave,



Yeah, no kidding and that's exactly what I called it, a calf.
Read my post more carefully.

Like I said,


I was trying to be nice!

that is the big mama of cows Jeff.

I'd call this one average.

I was agreeing with you.

Dave-good pics, I take it you took her with a Guide rifle? If so, then that is some kind of cool deal!

Dober

(that fella with the 685 lb pound must of been having some serious munchy attacks coming on from all the weed he was smokin...grin)

Thats my thurdy thurdy.....


Naw, it's an 1895M. Very similar to guide gun.

and yes it made cow hunting fun.

Cal?

Dober

.450

If I knew back then what I know now... I woulda just bought the 45-70 & loaded it up to the .450 specs

I was shoot'n 350 gr Hornady's

pumpkin chucker.

Short barrel, gotta like that right?

I take it every year as my "dark timber" rifle and it's my backup for what ever pointy bullet scoped rig I take.

That year I decided to "handicap" myself with stubby thunder here to add to the challenge. I do not regret it, I'm thinking it's the most fun I've had on any of my non resident low buck cow hunts

"stubby thunder", that has a nice ring to it...

I've had two guide rifles, both in 45/70 and sold both of them like a total dummy! I mean they both shoot into lil tiny holes so I just had to sell them right...

Dober

oh that's rough, I have a hard time selling any gun let alone one that will shoot well. I'm finding more & more that those "shooters" really aren't all that common.

My 45/70 Guide Gun also shot bugholes (holes for BIG bugs, though ,g>). So I also sold it. WTF?!

With that big cow o' mine, I played the "extraction" process according to the ranch owner's plan. I shot it way up on a steep hill. See that strap on the front legs? That was the "brake line". I was the brakeman. Brad (left) and Mark would sort of tug it, it would start to slide, and my job was to dig in my heels and keep it from running them over! Good times.

Then, Brad took the ranch truck, an old beater Ford that was always in 4-lo with the hubs locked, and backed it into the creek, thus bringing the tailgate about level with the opposite bank. And we slid that beast right into the back. It was pretty damn slick!

That cow was considerably bigger, physically, than the raghorn bull I shot a week or so later...

Anyway, I concur with ya'll about that little calf! Surprised nobody called the guy on it, over on that thread....

So now all the .260 Rem fans are bragging about the small elk they killed with the .... .45-70. Go figure.

Why did you have to put it down? Rabies?

Bulls get mad all the time.

cause he stopped milking it...grins

Hind tit on a mad bull, lookout Lee!

arguing with Lee is like trying to pick ticks off a porcupine- Ain't hardly worth the trouble...

Good point Fred, you guys get a little snow lately too?

Sam
No snow on the ground right here in MT City, but there is when I look up into the Elkhorns-
Fred

We got dusted yesterday afternoon. Just enough to make things muddy again.

You know why they call it PMS???

Because Mad Cow Disease was already taken

Nice pic/beautiful country Dave. Congrats on the elk w/irons.

As to the elk in the pic I sent the link on, I will not attempt to judge it's weight, but regardless, does the weight really matter? Seriously?

Not to argue larger animals may die 'slower' but if shot placement is good, is that animal NOT going to die once it reaches a certain size? Is the 6.5mm the best or a great NA Elk round? Maybe not, but is it adequate and capable? I think so. Not what I'd recommend shooting at LONG ranges like the 502 yds shot, but up to 200-300 in a pinch, I would get a good hold and squeeze, having a sharp knife ready!

Good feedback.

Uh, that would be Unit Regula 14.....about 76 parsecs from the Oregon line. In a universe far away......

he didn't just head shoot her, he "put a round behind her ear" at 502. what a load of BS. Maybe that's the handle Lee24 uses on that site.

I got drawn for an Arizona bull hunt this year in unit 4A (Mogollon Rim Country) and I'll be hunting with my 6.5x55SE. I am first and foremost an archery hunter and I bought this rifle for antelope since I prefer to hunt just about everything else with my bow. I only put in for this rifle elk hunt because I put in on a ticket with my buddy and he wanted to apply for the same hunts his dad did which were rifle hunts.

I'm going to be working up a load this summer with these .264" 160 grain Woodleighs Protected Points I got. The numbers look great, BC- .509, SD- .328...if I can find a good load that will give me 2500 fps at the muzzle I'll have a MPBR of 285 yards and the impact velocity at that range falls within the recommended range for this bullet.

I was up in my unit this week since the forest service opened the gates up there and I was playing with my Leica 1200. Most of my shots up there will probably be under 200 yards according to my friend's dad who has hunted up there for 30+ years now. Based on the areas I was scouting and ranging out I can certainly accept that estimation and any shots I get will probably be closer. I'll be keeping my shots to within 300 yards and less if it's really windy like it gets sometimes up there. Being a bow hunter I am used to waiting for a better shot or passing on any questionable shots.

It should be a fun hunt, I'm happy I got this Swede. I hope the twist is good enough to get sub-MOA with these long Woodleighs, but as long as it's close I'll go with them. My second choice was going to be Lapua or Norma bullets in the heavy-for-caliber weight range but I like these Woodleighs a lot so far. Just waiting to get my chrony fixed before I can really start working up the right load. I wanted to start with RL22 but couldn't find any so I got a couple of pounds of VV N160 and I'll see what that stuff can do. I'd like to make sure whatever powder I end up with isn't too temperature sensitive and I'll be doing some cold weather testing up there when the time gets closer to my hunt to make sure I'm keeping the velocities up where they need to be.

In case anyone is interested rifle is a CZ 550 American and I've got a Trijicon Accupoint green illuminated mil-dot scope on the way for her.

I'm bringing along my M1 with an adjustable gas plug, 5 shot clip and something like Federal Game-Shoks with 165 or 180 grain Nosler Partitions for a backup rifle. A friend has promised to hand me down his sporterized 1903A3, but I don't have that yet or else I'd probably just use it for my bull hunt. My CZ is pretty heavy so I guess the '03A3 probably wouldn't be too much different since it's sporterized and the stock is chopped. My Garand on the other hand...I really don't want to hump that up and down any of those canyons up there as much as I'd *love* to take a bull with an M1!

Sounds good to me azsix. Those 160s are supposed to penetrate like bunker busters. I've been tempted to try the 156 Norma Oryx myself. And unless the gun has proven it will do sub-MOA with other loads, I wouldn't worry about it too much if those loads won't quite do it.

I just want to try and get some great groups from the bench while I'm working up. Once I know I have something accurate that is consistently giving me the velocity I want/need I'll be getting away from the bench and shooting from field positions. I loaded up 20 of these just to see how they shot and I was seeing good groups so I have high hopes for them. I'll share as much info as I can about them and whatever loads I end up with since I haven't found too many people shooting them.

I feel really comfortable with this rifle for Arizona elk, but I think I would want something bigger if I was hunting in Grizzly country. I might just have that 1903A3 rebarreled to 338-06 and call it my dedicated elk/moose rifle. Some of you guys here around the campfire have really got my interests picqued in that round. I still really want to bow hunt elk here in AZ though.

I love having the ability to shoot these long 160's out of my Swede. They look like those little pencils you get at the golf course!

nd; Do you know what that cow weighed after she was skinned and the head cut off? "In the quarters", as we say.

I couldn't stand the pain to read all the way through this thread from where I left off a day or so ago, so forgive if I'm repeating anyone with my two comments about posts well back in the sequence.

1. The elk that doesn't look like it weighs the reported 685 lbs. looks like it has the fuzzy neck hair of a calf, though it is hard to say for sure in that quality of photo. Fuzzy hair on neck and face is one of the ways to ID a current year calf as distinguished from a yearling in a late season (Dec.), especially if it is solo, partly hidden in timber, etc.

2. Re: how long it takes an elk to die compared to moose with similar hits. Length of time to die is not really the issue in terms of degree of diffculty to put a tag on the critter.

Moose are generally considered easy to "kill" because many tend to stop when hit, and may even brace their legs to stay on their feet. He may last two minutes or more but drop within ten feet of where he was hit. (Exceptions noted.) Hard to kill but easy to find when dead may say it better.

Elk, on the other hand, tend to travel as far as they can in the last seconds or minutes they live after a mortal hit. In steep mountains, thick brush or timber, that can put the critter a looonngg way from where he was hit and extremely difficult to find or recover if found.

IME with a lot of time afield, I have found WAY more hunter killed dead elk never found/recovered than all other kinds of critters combined: deer, moose, caribou, bears, goats, etc.

Got a friend who kills dry country elk with a 220 Swift. On the other hand, my son who has killed branched antler bulls in public land rainforest general season in WA State for a number of consecutive years, traded in his 30-06 for a .338 Win mag., purely for elk.

One thing you KNOW about a .338- it's gonna work, if you do your part. Not a shadow of a doubt. That's nice.

Duude, last I looked a a round in the rump qualifies are "behind her ear." Five feet behind, but behind nonetheless.

BMT

The ass man cometh.... grin...

Yup.



BMT

O good Lord.

Now you are going to start the whole "caliber vs. motion of the ocean" debate.

... I just hunt with what I got <g>....

nope.

Sorry, I have no idea.

The 2 elk that I killed last year didn't seem to be overly pleased with the performance of my .260.

I was using the highest of quality bullets though, Federal Factory Loads, pushing 140 Gr. Sierra Game Kings.

First one, hit her with a double lung hit, she went 10-15 yards, did the Curly Shuffle and flopped. She was dying, but not going anywhere when I got to her, and put another one behind her ear. Full penetration out the other side, and blew through the far side shoulder blade shattering it on the way through.

Second one, I hit too far forward, broke the near side upper leg bone. Blew on through and destroyed some meet on the far side leg. She made it maybe 5 yards and curled up. She kept trying to get up, but couldn't. Shot in between the eyes ended the story there.

No problems elk hunting with a .260, and will do it again. Neither scenario would have gone any different if I had been carrying a 300 WM. Bad shot placement was my fault, and the .260 still performed well, even with a less then perfect shot.

Nice work on those two. I have heard the 140 Sierra is awfully good. Planning on testing those, 130 accubonds and 140 partitions. Feel like a 260 pushing those should be as effective as the 25-06 was pushing 115s last year.

The only reason I used the Sierra Game Kings was because that was what I had come hunting season. I farted around too long, and didn't get my 130 TSX's loaded up in time. But as you can see, the .260 is inadequate for elk, those were just little ones. And relied more on luck then anything else.

From the photos, it seems like those elk are barely dead. Guess I am okay with that. Did you have to stick them with a knife to finish them off, or am I okay if I just bring my little knife along?

Fastest kill I ever saw on an elk was my hunting buddy using my 6.5 x 55 with a 160 Hornady Round Nose. Went down like it was pole-axed. The shot was a 100 yards or so. I wouldn't use that bullet on elk today. I'd use a good premium 120 to 140 grain bullet. One of these days I'll probably end up with a 260 Remington. At the moment, I've got 3 Swedes (I had 4), a 6.5-06 and I just got a 264 Win Mag. I guess I'm a 6.5mm Rifle Looney........we're the looniest of all looneys.

Trombaguy....This coming elk season I have thought about and decided to just take 2 rifles to elk camp in Colorado. They will be the .338-06 using 210 grain Nosler partitions and the other will be my 6.5/06 using 160 grainers. These are both light rifles but the .338-06 is the lighter of the two.

I figure I can push that .338-06 out to 300 yards if need be or the 6.5/06 out to 200 hunting elk with no sweat. It will be somewhat of a change of heart from the .338mag and 7mm mag or .338-06 of past years.

Had a 338/06, spoke to a well known smith who advised around 380 yds, his 225 partitions at close to 2700 mv, busted BOTH shoulders on a bull elk, and I have no doubt it is a 400 yd capable elk round with shot placement and good bullets. It's a good one.

A 260 and similar rounds I'd prefer under 300. As depicted above, a good 6.5mm bullet through lungs does an elk no good

No knife sticking was required. Barely dead is still dead, and very little damage done to the meat. If similar shot placement had been made with a 300 WM or something similar, have the meat would have been destroyed. Now if you don't eat the meat, by all means, use an anti-aircraft gun. I just don't think bigger caliber helps all that much. If you are a [bleep] shot, you need to practice, not get a bigger gun.

The 308 Win seems to be a widely accepted elk round, using 150 gr bullets. Now if I use a 260, it surpasses the 308 after about 300 yards, in velocity, energy, and drop. With a bullet that weighs 10 grains less. So I don't see where everyone sees a problem with the 260. If you don't want to use it, don't. But it is more then capable of taking animals (elk) down if you know how to shoot, and know your own limitations.

I know this is an older post....but I have to chime in as well on the value of the .260/6.5mm Swede AND the .243. I belong to the "got my Elk with a .243 and 6.5mm club..." .243 was in Washington state in the 70's at about 100 yards...slipped the 100gr. corlokt thru the ribs and the 6.5mm was in Idaho in 1981.....140 yards with a 140gr. Nosler. So....I know they can do it...just make your hit in the right spot.

Until this fall I could only speculate to the efficiency of the 6.5x55 and its effectiveness when hunting Wapiti, No more. First shot complete pass through the neck of a 5x5 bull at approx. 198 yards. He was lying down and never got up. I put a finisher in him when I got to him, although he would have expired on his own. This was not with a premium bullet just Core-lokts. I passed up some shots on earlier bulls due to their proximity to cows, trees, poor angle, etc. I'm patient and it paid off in the end with a nice bull. Would I have shot at an earlier bull with a .270, 30-06, 7 mag? Nope! The Swede is a keeper and I'll exercise good judgement, woodsmanship,and good decision making over horsepower any day to fill my tag.

Then you haven't hunted enough. I haven't taken that many elk - let's say less than 10. My last one was shot at a bit less than 300 yards, and that's as close as I could get. It was above me on a grass covered slope, and the bush and log I used to conceal myself was the last hiding opportunity between the animal and I.

I took it with one shot from a 30-06, with a 165-gr. Interbond, by the way. If I had had a 260 with a suitable 120 - 140 gr. bullet, I'm confident that the results would have been the same.