Anyone shooting the 165 gr NP @ 30-06 velocities for elk?
What's your experience or feelings about this bullet?

No exerience here,but I hear of a lot of elk taken with them.
I just prefer a heavier bullet.

I'm sure it would work fine but for an all around load a 180 grain Nolser Partion doing 2750-2800 fps would be hard for any animal to shrug off!

Me thinks it would do just dandy. Plenty have fallen to it already.

I've used it on elk and seen it used.It does fine.On broadsides through the ribs sometimes you will find them on the off side and sometimes you won't....much like a 180 gr.

For a 165 it seems pretty tough.

See my post on Texas elk hunt. Also see pictures on accurate reloaders. capt david

I used the 165g Accubond (Nosler Factory loading 30-06 @ 2800 fps) on my elk this year. Terminal performance is supposed to be very similar to the 165 Partition. Quartering towards, hit just ahead of shoulder and exited behind offside shoulder. Took out both lungs and the area above the heart with all the arteries for a DRT one shot kill. Distance was less than 50 yds.

Was that the Nosler Custom , or Nosler Trophy ammo?
How does it shoot in your rifle?

The elk I shot with a 165 partition out of an '06 thought it was enough at 535 yards. He shuddered, took 2 steps and rolled down the hill towards me about 15 yds. I had been practicing out close to that range so it wasn't all luck. Never recovered the bullet to see how it performed. ;-)

This stuff, Trophy Grade, I got it when Nosler was doing a buy two get the third box free deal.

The rifle in question is a BAR Safari model with BOSS. It shoots damn near anything under an inch if you take the range time to tune it in.

This is good stuff to read. I've got a mess of 165 gr Partitions, and a .30-06 that seem to go together real well.

This is what I use now, but before I upgraded my rifle to a .300 Win, I shot 4 bulls with a 7mm and 160 grain Partitions. Worked fine.

The 165's should be no problem. Our elk hunt group uses 180's - I guess kind of classic. I'd use whichever one was the most accuract. The 15 grains isn't going to amount to anything the elk will notice.

Guy after seeing them work on elk,I haven't loaded anything but them for all my hunting with the 30/06.We have used them on everything from elk down.

Like BobinNH, 165 Partitions are my go-to load in the '06. I killed my first elk with one 48 years ago, and have taken four or five since with the same load. I may switch to AccuBonds when I use up what I have loaded now, or I may just stay with "the one that brung me."

mudhen I do like that load a lot!

I've taken all three of my elk with it, at about 3000 in my .308FAT. I happy.

I only have antelope to go by, but I can tell you a 165NP around 2800 goes in and out and the goats dropped in their tracks. I would have no issues at 0-300 yards going after elk with it.

I used the 165 on the bull in my avatar out of a 308win and it punched two holes with good blood trail.
Used on a deer as well. Great results there too.

If you read the thread, you'd know that I shot my only elk, a large cow, with a 165PT, in a 30-06. I was considering reloading some 180s for the hunt. My buddy Arns9 said go with the 165s. I did and the elk ran 50-60yds. I told him I should have used the 180s. It probably would have only run 30yds!!!!!!!!!! hehe. capt david

x2. I did use Partition Golds when they were out in the late 90's they were 180gr WS ammo...loved them. I too prefer 180gr in the 300WM/WSM. Switched to 180gr Accubonds in 2004 and never looked back. Shot both the factory and now reload since 2005.

I cannot see why the 165 PG wont work. Couple of friends reload 165gr AB's in their 300WSM and love them.

capt: I have seen bull elk drop on the spot,run,walk a short ways,and do all sorts of un[redictable things hit with 30/06's and 300 mags using 165,180,and 200 gr Nosler Partitions.Which of these three a guy uses has very little to do with how fast the elk hits the deck,and seems to depend more on where he is hit...it is hard to generalize.Just the way elk are sometimes.

There does seem to be a difference in the penetration capabilities of the three bullets and the 200 gr will out penetrate the lighter bullets, generally.

One pal of mine did not lead a running spike enough at about 75 yards in the quakies....hit it in the pelvis broad side and busted the hips with 165 NPT from a 30/06...the bullet exited and the elk skidded on its' nose...was dead when he got there.I suspect the femoral artery was ruptured.

I have also seen the 165 go from the base of an elks neck(quartering away),travel the length of the neck and blow out the side of its head at about 500 yards.....the 165 seems to have enough mustard and tough enough construction for any rational shot at any elk.Deer and black bear barely slow the things down when fired from a 30/06 and they are hell on wheels on big mule deer and whitetails as well....even more so when fired from a 300 mag at 3200 fps+ but I prefer 180's from the magnums....that said we have used them on everything from elk down from the magnum 30's as well.

Although this is an elk thread, I mainly use my 30-06 as a backup for my 7x57(shorter ranges) or my 280(longer ranges.) I mostly hunt deer and pigs, and those two kick less than the 30-06. I decided on the 165PT, because it seems truely an all around bullet. capt david

One of my best friends here in Montana has used the 165 Partition from his .30-06 for all his elk hunting for at least 25 years now, and he gets an elk most years. He's recovered very few of the 165's.

I recall a great article Mule Deer did on the 30/06 and the 165 years back in (IIRC)Rifle Magazine....he mentioned Peter Barrett, former F&S editor who hunted Africa a lot,and his light rifle was a 30/06 with the 165 gr Nosler Partition.

If I could afford an elk hunt, that bullet would be my first choice.

Have shot elk with 150's, 165's, 180's, and 200's in .30 cal..the 165 is a favorite wt. for me..and the Nosler Part. is the fav. bullet..Like Bob said, how soon elk drop can depend on where it is hit..the nice thing with a part. is one can drive it though bone to hit the vitals..as far as penetration, I think the 200 has that hands down..Hagel said the only bullet that traveled farther for him though an animal was the 175 grain Part. from his 7mm mag.

With that result why would you need to recover the bullet. Dead elk at your feet equals great performance.

That gives me an idea to fire up the .308 and the 165NP for next years bull hunt. I better make sure I have enough Varget.

If'n a 308 wont' shoot a 165/168 and Varg then it aint overly smart...

That's my Montana's fav load.

Dober

Wouldn't a TSX be better....?

Why?

I'm sorry. I was just kidding.



Currently running 165 NAB's in my '06 for what it's worth.

Good thread, it's nice to hear the success stories with the 165/elk combo!

Geezus BW,don't you and Dober have 30/06's?

Yes Bob I do. Used a pre '64 '06 to bring back this years cow.
Just trying to allow for "equal opportunity" between the rifles.
Better yet, for next years bull, I should fire up the Montana .338WM with either a 225gr. NP or a Sierra Pro-Hunter.

Have any of you guys used the 165 Hornady flat base interlocks on elk? and how have they performed? All I own right now are 30-06's. Of course I have everything from 110 gr plinkers to 220 gr RN's. I'm just curious as they have hammered the chit out of the deer and black bear I've shot and I've yet to recover one.

I load them for my sons -06. I prefer my elk 30's to weigh 200 and leave at 3000.

I am getting a Model 70 in 06 and have not really thought about what to shoot from it - it would make sense to use the same load my son uses.

I killed three cows with that bullet out of a 3006 with imr4350. Watched my old man kill a few more, not to mention who knows how many deer. Nothing wrong with it and it works pretty damned well. Wouldn't think twice about using it again.

I have killed a couple elk with them in an '06...excellent performance. Could never tell the difference between the Horn or a NPT.Superb bullets.

That's good to hear Ingwe. They shoot extremely well (sub MOA) in my No.1 RSI and my Hawkeye with the same load. It's nice to have a primary and backup shoot the same fodder that well.

Not a big fan of Partitions anymore. I've hand loaded them in in various weights up to 250 gr. with varying results. On my only guided hunt ever many years ago, the guide called them "trackers", because they had to track a lot of elk shot with them. I think your limiting factor will be a shoulder shot. I'd rather have a heavier bullet for that reason, particularly if it's the only shot you have. I shoulder shot an elk at 75 yards with a 338 with a 210 gr partition and it did not break through the shoulder. The second shot did drop it like a rock through the spine. It really is up to the shot and shooter, but if you are off just a little, give me that 180 gr. in a 30-06 any day.
I do love their old "solid base" (discontinued) bullet for shooting deer. Best shots of my life were with that bullet.

I'd like to see the elk shoulder that could stop a 210 .338 Partition.

Have broken the big joint on a good-sized 6x6's shoulder with a 200-grain Partition from a .300 Winchester Magnum--and the bullet exited the rear of the ribcage. The range was 75 yards.

Horse poop smelling strong here.

Sign me up for that too!

Add me to the signature line!

Maybe if the bullet drilled a tree trunk on the way!

I think he was smoking something...I'd like to see that one...Sign me up too.....

Smelt more like BS to me.....I've shot thru elk shoulders with my 250 gr. sierra gamekings out of my 338 win mag. The 210 partition is a MUCH stronger pill....

Me too!

Me three.

I've broken the shoulder on an Arizona elk, a 9' B&C grizzly, and a 60" Alaska moose with the 210 gr Partition. If there is a more reliable bullet for BIG North American biggame, I haven't seen it.

Don't doubt you saw what you saw....but bullets can at times deflect and take a screwy course through game animals,which might be what happened in the case you witnessed.

In general I've seen the 210 Partition do some great work on elk and black bear,so long as it was placed properly...and I've killed a pretty fair number of elk with 160 gr 7mm,180 and 200 gr 30 caliber bullets and some have been shoulder shot.

Certainly more than enough to know that if you have to do a lot of tracking to find an elk hit properly with a Partition, one of two things is absolutely true: He wasn't hit properly....or he wasn't hit at all.

Point is an example of one can't lead to many reliable conclusions.

It's somewhat humorous to me that some people think they have rediscovered the wheel and found some little known fault with a design that has been used successfully on every major BG species worldwide since the 40's...like they now have discovered something no one else has in the preceeding 60+ years....usually this is based on an example of "one" on their (likely) only elk hunt.

You do read some funny stuff on the Internet...

Shot at 75-100 yards with a .338 RUM 210 NP at a starting velocity of 3200,high shoulder shot as can be seen by the hole in shoulder.

Dropped in tracks and went through other shoulder also.

About 25 years ago, I shot a bull through both shoulders with the .210 grain Nosler Partition shot from a .338 Win Mag, from about 200 yards. The bullet exited, so I have no idea what it looked like. The bull, after taking one of these through the lungs, was about to follow a few cows into a steep ravine...hence the shoulder shot to stop him.

I hear alot of gack about Partitions that frankly is not born out by my experience with them. They have been superbly reliable in my humble hunting career.

regarding the 210 NP comment I often wonder if it's a matter of too much speed and not enough momentum. to wit, i would consider the 200 NP for elk; great aerodynamics and a ton of momentum.

elkhunternm,

with an elk' physiology, did that shot break the spine or just what happened there?

elkhunternm: Bet that one didn't need much tracking...


bluefish: Penetration with Partitions is pretty much due to design,construction,jacket thickness,as much as SD.While the 210 is shorter than other 338 Partitions,it's a tough bullet and will handle elk bones at high velocity,like 3150-3200 fps MV.I have seen it used in the 340 Weatherby by a companion quite a bit.

I recall one bull at 250 yards or so that took one on the point of the shoulder...he was erased...one of those DRT's we all like to see.

That is just stupid! Yeah those Nosler Partitions are junk, jou should go to Walmart and buy some Coreloks. The .338 just bounces off elk, whatever.....

Bob,

I've read what you wrote before as the argument for the 210 NP as the beau ideal in the 338-06 since it's lower (compared to the win mag) velocities combined with it's fairly tough construction create a deeper penetrating bullet. However, I was wondering aloud if hitting big bones can perhaps cause such a bullet to not act as one may hope.

I'm going to start working up a load in the next week or so for the 260 AB in my 375 and see if I can make a do-all NA load with a sight in distance of 200 yards. Plenty of power lines around here I can experiment on once I'm loaded up.

bluefish all I can say is it has penetrated fine on anything I've seen it used on,including busting up the pelvis on another bull elk....that's the biggest animal I have seen it used on.

Would it fail to penetrate anything larger? I don't know...

bob,

for no good reason that 338-06 in a M70 platform with a 24 or 25" barrel in an Echols Legend strikes me as a darned good setup for Western elk/muley hunting. lots of pokey and all in a package weighing what a standard 06 would weigh. what's not to like there, huh? curious if say a 225 AB may be a better flyer for a general elk rig?

bluefish I don't know as I have not so much as fired a 338-225 AB...nor have I even seen one used on anything...but I bet it will work fine in anything 338.

For the work you decribed, I'd build a Mashburn... but I know you are a medium bore kinda guy.

I settled on the 200 BT for elk in my .338-06. I got a little over 2,700 fps with a 23-inch barrel in a Ruger No. 1. Took two mature bulls with two shots, no tracking.

I have also used that bullet a fair amount in my .338 Win Mag with great success, although I am now shooting 210 TTSXs in the .338 Mag, just to try something different. Haven't had the opportunity to use them on game, yet.

The 200 Ballistic Tip also works fine from the .338 Magnum on elk-sized game. I've used it quite a bit both in North America and Africa at 2900+ fps with very fine results.

Hard not to like the 210 Partition, either!

No,it was a little low for the spine,it took out the forward portions of the lungs.

Bob,it dropped right where it was hit!

Not a very good pic,but here is another elk killed with a 210 NP,this time a .340 Wby at about 125-150 yards. They work and also used a 250 NP out of a .340 Wby for my first elk.

Cannot go wrong with a Nosler Partition.

I agree, the partition just works. Last years cow elk:



Just about anything works, though, when you put it in the right place... .....Now what the [bleep] am I going to try next year??? Oh, maybe my 375 H&H

22/250 and or Swifto, rumor has it that they work as well...

Dober

375 H&H hmmm I have one also that is begging me to go elk hunting next year(2014.)

Why am I not surprised?

I hear about these "long tracking jobs" here and there with Partitions but strongly suspect it's a case of bullets not landing where they are supposed to go.....hey, it happens to all of us now and then.

Agreed. Kind of hard to determine what happened when the animal is lost.

Here's a bull I took with the 338 WM and 210 NP on a cold November day... I was cleverly disguised as Tom Selleck and the bull never saw me.

That is a great bull,one of these days I will kill one like that.

I'd like to ask that "guide" about Partitions being called "trackers"?
Sign me up for a front row seat.

bang flop! nuf said!

Dang nice bull Brad...I can't wait for this year's elk hunt. I'll be on the chase for a bull this year.. Don't know what I'll use though....Brad, I need some imput on this. What should I use??? Here's my list of what I won't be using if that makes it easier ;):

9.3x62mm
300 win mag
300 wsm
30-06

"Tracker" bullets have been a fav of mine since I started loading.

Dober

I like the "trackers" too...

"Trackers" have always worked for me as well!

I shot a bull elk a number of years ago on an outfitted hunt in Wyoming. I used a 210 grains Nosler Partition in my Ruger 77 .338 Mag. I hit the bull in the shoulder, the N.P. blasted through and took out a lung and ribs on the off side. Bull took a couple of steps and was down.

I was using 78.0 grains of Norma MRP, scooting along at about 2,900 +/- FPS. The range on that elk was about 175 yards.

I've been on six outfitted elk hunts in four western States. I have never had a guide or outfitter refer to the Nosler Partition bullet as a "tracker." I have certainly heard outfitters and guides talk about inaccurate shooting leading to "hard tracking."

L.W.

That actually happened to a friend of mine. He dropped a bull facing him with a 210 NP out of his .338 Win. Mag. - the bull fell behind a young pine tree. As the bull lay on the ground it looked up at my friend he fired a second shot that blew through the tree, then through the bull's shoulder, then through the rest, and out.

It really doesn't matter what all of you believe to me. This is what happened and I found the bullet where I said I did. I was there, you weren't. Obviously the bull was dead from the second shot so I was able to recover the first bullet. Time and place- Selway-Bitterroot wilderness area in Idaho 1985. Geez, someone doesn't agree with your opinions of a bullets performance and the insults start. How about-"odd, it shouldn't do that", but no, here come the "bs" claims. Now, the next bull I shot was with a 250 gr. Grand Slam, and both shoulders were broken. Kinda what one would expect from a .338.
The guide service was Moose Creek Outfitters, now long defunct.

Firestorm -

Your post has certainly justified your user name!

I have no experience with the 210 NP on elk, but I would have to regard your description as well out of the ordinary for what I would expect from that bullet.

Personally, I have very few bullets recovered from elk, as I tend to use 250 grain bullets (NP and Swift A-Frames) in my .338. Elk really do not slow these bullets down.

I am prepared to believe that a Nosler Partition might not work as expected in some isolated instances.

In the 1980s, while hunting on the ranch where my friend Finn Aagaard lived, my wife shot a small whitetail with the 130 grain Nosler Partition from a .270 Winchester at about 75 yards with no obstacles between her and the deer.

After a three hour search we finally found the deer dead, well hidden underneath some small brush. The deer had *two* entrance wounds maybe nine inches or so apart (hard to remember exactly now). That 130 grain Nosler Partition apparently came apart in mid-air.

Now I have used that bullet and other Nosler Partitions quite a bit. Never before, nor since, did I experience anything like that. I regard Partitions as one of the most reliable bullets anyone could use. I regard that experience as a strange anomaly, and in no way typical. It was a one-off, strange bullet performance, and that is all.

I have also seen a bull elk hit at about 45 yards with a 175 grain Nosler Partition from a 7mm Rem Mag that ran about a quarter of a mile over dry ground. There were no more than two small drops of blood over that distance, but we tracked it by the disturbance on the ground made by the running hooves. It was dead when we found it, having apparently died in mid-stride. It was a straight through shot that hit both lungs, but no bone. Apparently the bullet simply did not expand enough to produce a quick kill.

Both of these instances are not typical, and stand out as glaring inconsistencies in a lifetime of using Nosler Partitions.

I can believe you maybe had something unusual happen with the 210 NP on your elk, but there is no way on earth for a guide to be justified in calling Partitions "trackers", unless his clients were not putting the bullets in the right place.

There are bullets that will drop elk faster than Partitions on average. But when the dead elk is typically found anywhere from zero to a hundred yards away, it doesn't take much tracking skill to find the elk.

Nosler Partitions remain one of the most reliable bullets made, and I do not find them inferior in any way.

Firestorm I don't think anyone doubts that you saw what you saw...or that it happened.But as WinM70 points out,one bad example does not tell us much about how bullets perform across a spectrum.

I doubt the insults were directed at you..just people's way of expressing "doubt".....just that there is collectively a lot of Nosler Partition "experience" on here,dating back decades;likely far more than even your elk guide has,and given the tens of thousands (100's of thousands?)of animals those bullets have taken over 6+ decades,(everything from elephant down,actually)they have a proven track record for very consistent and reliable performance.

So, folks may collectively be a bit underwhelmed with what one guide thinks of Nosler Partitions because such statements fly in the face of their own experience.

Firestorm,

You said "I shoulder shot an elk at 75 yards with a 338 with a 210 gr partition and it did not break through the shoulder. The second shot did drop it like a rock through the spine. "

If you don't mind, could you expand on that description a bit. Very curious about the physiology of this hit. I gather you mean that although it broke bone it did not continue into the boiler room. Exactly what part of the shoulder did it break? Probably not the scapula...ball of humerus, shaft of humerus? Where did you find the bullet and what did it look like? What did the elk do when hit? Run, stop, fall? What was the actual effect of that first hit? Obviously it did not get out of sight immediately. How big an animal was this elk?

Thanks

Dead Elk is what I was thinking.

CRS has it nailed. You can kill any elk that walks with that load, if you hit it in the right place!

My guess as to why that guide would refer to Partitions as "trackers" is because he had seen Partitions do what they were designed to do, however his hunters may have failed to put their bullets where they were susposed to. The result would have been a caliber size entrance hole and no large blood letting exit hole.

Partitions were designed with a fast opening front half to quickly transfer a lot of energy from the bullet to the animal, and a solid back half for deep penetration. This causes the bullet to shed the lead core back to the partition, and the remaining back half has an almost 1/2" wide flat front surface that often will not penetrate the tough, elastic hide of the far side of the elk.

The 180 gr .30 caliber Partition was my favorite elk bullet for many years. I usually don't spend a lot of time recovering my bullets, but I do have some, including six .30 caliber Partitions that I found just under the skin on the "off" side of the six bulls that I shot with them. They are all exactly like the Partitions that I described above. None of those bulls left much of a blood trail, but all of them had shredded lungs, and tracking wasn't necessary.

Put a Partition into the heart/lungs of an elk and you'll have a dead elk. Put a Partition into the paunch of an elk and you'll have a long and difficult tracking job.

I also don't like shoulder shots on elk. I like eating elk meat too much, and I don't like eating bloodshot meat. A bullet (or arrow) placed broadside, in the crease right behind the shoulder, and 1/3 up into the body will result in a dead animal and very little meat loss.

buffybr - for the six 180 grain Partitions that you recovered, what cartridge were you using them in? Also, generally what kind of distance was the shot?

Totally with you on this, we love elk burgers too much to waste them! Sure if the critters quarterly to me and time is short I'll take the point and bust them. Side from that I'll avoid them and hit them in the arm pit.

Dober

.30 Gibbs chronographed at average 2995 fps, all shot at probably less than 200 yds. Other than my first elk that I shot many, many years ago, I haven't shot or shot at an elk at over 300 yds.

buffybr - if you shot an elk with the 180 NP using your .30 Gibbs, and the elk was standing broadside to you, did your 180 NP normally exit the other side?

These six didn't. They were just under the hide on the off side.

Just for comparison, here's a couple of pics of the entrance and exit holes from a 168 gr Barnes TSX.

5 point bull elk shot broadside, tight behind the shoulder at about 100 yds from my .300 Weatherby, chronographed velocity of 3290 fps at 10'.

At the shot, the bull turned, took 3 steps, and fell dead.

Top arrow points to the entrance hole in the ribcage, bottom arrow points to the .30 cal hole in the hide.


Exit hole just behind the "off" shoulder. Again the top arrow points to the hole in the rigcage, and the bottom arrow points to a 1"+ exit hole in the hide.

How can you not like that? I'm a little old school. I still like the partitions,but can't argue with performance like posted above. I recently traded in a T3 30/06 that the previous owner had wonderful accuracy with. He was shooting 180gr TSXs over H4350. I've been watching for a box of them to pick up and try. I do however have reservations about them not opening up on light bone like ribs at 06 velocities. This is where I believe (rightly or wrongly),that the partition would perform better.

That often happens with elk, even with some magnum calibers. The hide is very stretchy and will bulge way out when hit from the inside. It's like a big elastic net. I've found lots of bullets under the skin that way.
I would like to see a slo mo video or even a still shot of a fully stretched hide.

The Barnes seems to set up a smaller frontal area,so may be inclined to exit more easily and penetrate the rubbery hide better,so that may be why they exit.Also, they tend to blow the petals under high velocity,which sets the stage for the smaller frontal area.

But I have seen recovered 375 Barnes TSX recovered from eland at 300+ yards that broke the shoulder, yet retained all the petals.Clearly at that distance the velocity had fallen off and the tough bullet retained that wide frontal area that caught the offside hide and didn't penetrate through.Another shot into a kudu at 80 yads blew the petals;yet remained in the animal.

I have found that a 180 Partition from a 300 Win Mag or Weatherby, will sometimes exit,an elk on broadside shots, and sometimes will not...depends on what exactly you hit and the impact velocity.I know I have one or two here that I have dug from elk.Others have blasted on through.

Another factor is the higher rotational velocity of a bullet fired from a 30 cal magnum will cause more dramatic bullet upset than the same bullet fired from ( say) a 30/06.The added velocity and added rpm's all place additional stresses on the bullet and may cause contribute to pedals shearing off,and more dramatic and rapid expansion.

No doubt a Barnesis a"tougher" bullet....it has to be because it has no jacket and lead core that will fragment and disintigrate under high stress(but it seems it will blow the petals).none of this means that a Partition is in any way inadequate....just that you may not be able to drop as far down the weight spectrum to get pretty much the same results.

JMHO but no seem to always exit an animal, and personally I haven't seen any differences in how they kill whether they exit or not...it never seemed terribly important to me because the damage is done beofre the bullet reaches the off side.

To me, the good thing about a bullet being able to penetrate well is its' ability to break heavy bone eiither at the begininng of the wound channel, or at the end;even after traveling through a lot of elk.If it does that, I'm happy....cause you are standing over a very dead animal.

Man I miss my 300 wby....It loved the 180 partitions too....