Anyone recommend a drop camp for rifle elk? Preferably not in grizzly country.
That's pretty much going to be impossible to do in western montana ecept maybe down in the bitteroot valley south of missoula. Are you looking for an Outfitter to take you in.
Outfitter, pack us in, have a camp already setup, hunt for a week and then picked backup.
Never hunted with him but talked to some that have and they liked it.
http://www.elkoutfitters.com/
Anyone recommend a drop camp for rifle elk? Preferably not in grizzly country.
Why no griz? That makes life interesting.
Anyone recommend a drop camp for rifle elk? Preferably not in grizzly country.
Why no griz? That makes life interesting.
That kind of interesting I can live without lol.
Scott Boulanger, from two bear outfitters is whom I had in mind. He has area's in the bitteroot's that have no grizz.
I'd pick a different state is you're worried about grizz.
I'd pick a different outfitter. Besides, the Root is FULL of wolves. mtmuley
The Bitteroot would not be my first choice..
where are you gonna do a drop camp in montana that doesn't have grizz or wolves!!!!!
Im looking at Indian Summer Outfitters, the reviews on bowsite are outstanding, its in the Bitteroots so wolves maybe an issue, but I dont think there near as bad as there are in unit 17 in Idaho.
How much are drop camp hunts? Most really good outfitters won't do them. Why would a good outfitter drop inexperienced hunters into an area that he is trying to take guided hunters? I just don't understand the logic of the concept. Am I mising something here? Unless he is dropping them into his nieghboring Outfitters country.
How much are drop camp hunts?
Generally about $2,000
Most really good outfitters won't do them. Why would a good outfitter drop inexperienced hunters into an area that he is trying to take guided hunters?
Who says they are inexperienced? Who says they are in the same area, one can be in the next square over and be plenty far away. Especially, when packing in.
I just don't understand the logic of the concept.
Man hours are expensive, if you have a paying customer willing to do much of the work you can leverage your staff where best needed and scale the business.
Am I missing something here?
Yes. Drop camps are a great option for guys who want a wilderness/pack-in hunt on their own but don't have the stock/gear to do so.
JrYoung, So, you have been in the outfitting and guiding busness and live in the West? I have been for many years. All I am getting at is In MT and WY with the hunting seasons being long, a good reputable Outfitter is not going to dick with drop camps for $2000 a pop. When he can get $4000 or 5000 for a guided trip. Again, Be carefull when booking drop camps and understand that they will not be in the best areas. Colorado may be different with their shot seasons.
You should have noted that before then (MT/WY specific compared to CO...WY outfitters obviously control the wilderness for NRs). I'm not interested in guided/drop camps, I can understand why drop camps are attractive for someone that knows how to hunt. I can also understand why guided trips are better for others that have a little more cash and never hunted the west before.
I crunch numbers, and to me if you don't have the resources (good quality guides/stock) several drop camps seem like a reasonable way to make about the same margin. To boot, you mitigate some of the risk of having a jackass guide giving you a bad rep.
How much are drop camp hunts?
Generally about $2,000
Most really good outfitters won't do them. Why would a good outfitter drop inexperienced hunters into an area that he is trying to take guided hunters?
Who says they are inexperienced? Who says they are in the same area, one can be in the next square over and be plenty far away. Especially, when packing in.
I just don't understand the logic of the concept.
Man hours are expensive, if you have a paying customer willing to do much of the work you can leverage your staff where best needed and scale the business.
Am I missing something here?
Yes. Drop camps are a great option for guys who want a wilderness/pack-in hunt on their own but don't have the stock/gear to do so.
This makes sense to me^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'd do a drop camp hunt before I'd do a guided hunt.
This will be my 6th DIY elk hunt, 2 of which were solo. While Im not an elk expert, I do alright and know how to hunt them. The main reason I want to do a drop camp is because Im taking my girlfriend and would like her to have a litte more comfort than what we can carry on our backs. While I realize that some outfitters wont put you in good hunting areas, some will, Ill do my due diligence, like most things, you get out what you put in.
Hello all this is Alan owner of Two Bear Outfitters. Let me clear up the drop camp thing. Yes, reputable outfitters will do drop camps, but it is usually for experienced elk hunters not the opposite. Drop camps are not in the same areas as guided clients and they do not cost the outfitter nearly as much as a basecamp guided hunt. Base camp many think is determined by the amount of elk etc and drop camp not so much. Here is the reality: Basecamp does require elk, but its actual location is determined by logistical considerations within elk country. Because of the dynamics of a basecamp it must be located with a ready water source, room for several tents, corral for horses, ample wood resources for woodstoves etc. Drop camps do not have any where near the logistical considerations, and can be plopped down right in the smack dab middle of great elk country.
We have clients do a full guided hunt, then a semi guided hunt, then on to drop camp as their elk hunting experience grows. I run a very reputable outfit, and do drop camps.
Thank You, Alan
Welcome Alan hope you stick around this is the best hunting/ shooting board on the net
Thanks for posting Alan and clearing up BS! When you're good you don't have to brag about yourself, other people will brag for you.... and they have bragged for you!!!
Welcome Alan hope you stick around this is the best hunting/ shooting board on the net
And this ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hello all this is Alan owner of Two Bear Outfitters. Let me clear up the drop camp thing. Yes, reputable outfitters will do drop camps, but it is usually for experienced elk hunters not the opposite. Drop camps are not in the same areas as guided clients and they do not cost the outfitter nearly as much as a basecamp guided hunt. Base camp many think is determined by the amount of elk etc and drop camp not so much. Here is the reality: Basecamp does require elk, but its actual location is determined by logistical considerations within elk country. Because of the dynamics of a basecamp it must be located with a ready water source, room for several tents, corral for horses, ample wood resources for woodstoves etc. Drop camps do not have any where near the logistical considerations, and can be plopped down right in the smack dab middle of great elk country.
We have clients do a full guided hunt, then a semi guided hunt, then on to drop camp as their elk hunting experience grows. I run a very reputable outfit, and do drop camps.
Thank You, Alan
Holy Smokes! Actual facts from a person qualified to make these statements..
I've done multiple drop camps in Co and Idaho, and I'll agree with every single statement Alan just made.
Alan, drop in again when ever you find some spare time.
TwoBears (Alan) is a reputable guy, plain and phhhuuckin simple!!!!!!!
Thanks for your input Alan!
Thank You guys for the wonderful welcome. I just discovered this site when a client said folks were talkin about us. I really have enjoyed it thus far and I'll be around. It takes very little for me to run my yapper about elk hunting;)
Alan, what's your take on the proposed boundary changes down your way? mtmuley
I'm in the upper portion of 270, mtmuley. It doesn't seem to effect our operation any, but I think upper 270 fits better with unit 261. I have not yet sent in my comments as I am still collecting information, so I couldn't really give an honest opinion just yet.
Apparition: Best of luck in your future Elk Hunting endeavors here in Big Sky country.
If you were a friend of mine (and I consider you to be!) I would advise you to spend your monies on a tresspass fee to a rancher that is harboring Elk herds on his place.
The areas of Montana that are harboring Wolves (most all of western Montana!) are experiencing both shortages of Elk on public lands AND Elk that are not doing what they used to do 10 - 12+ years ago.
I an NOT syaing that there are no Elk in the back country anymore but I am saying that there are way less of them AND they are under constant pressure from Wolves making them even more wary and difficult to Hunt!
I have two close, local, friends who have both killt more than 30 Bull Elk apiece, here in western Montana, and BOTH of them have now just suffered their second "Elkless" seasons in a row!
First time that has happened to either of them, EVER!
Maybe even consider a drop camp Hunt in Colorado or New Mexico (no Wolves there as yet!)?
Again best of luck to you in your quest.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Alan, do you own Two Bears or does Scott? No more hunting in 250? mtmuley
MtMuley, I own Two Bear bought it from Mike Gandy years ago after guiding there for a couple years. Scott has zero affiliation with Two Bear other than being the outfitter of record.
Just wondering. So... Scott's license? mtmuley
Varmitguy,
I'd like to address your comments here, no disrespect intended sir. I don't believe for a second the Bitterroot is in anywhere near the trouble claimed by so many residents. I have hunted the root for 20 years and guided there for 7. In general, we kill no fewer bulls today then we did 10 years ago, cow elk notwithstanding due to reg changes.
Since 2008 Montana ranks second only to Utah in B&C bull entries. In the Bitterroot unit 270 and 261 are at or over objective elk populations. Most western Montana hunting units are at or over objective. State wide Montana elk populations are healthy. In the Bitterroot the 2013 Spring Elk survey counted 7373 elk which is the fourth highest elk count in 48 years of surveys.
Wolves: I will now say something that will really tick off my fellow outfitters. I believe the wolf issue has been greatly exaggerated. I have several times over the years been calling bulls in complete frenzy with wolves howling within 300 yards, it never once effected the calling. I have also gone two years without hearing or seeing wolves, not even a track. Some years they are around, others years not at all. I watched 5 bulls and 40 cows grazing in the open at 3pm in the afternoon last year, not a care in the world. Last year I heard bulls bugling all over the mountain, calling not effected by wolves in any capacity.
I was around a decade ago when the elk were everywhere. The bulls today are much better quality, we saw healthy nice 6 point and large 5 point satellite bulls last year!! Killed two P&Y herd bulls, and missed a 360" monster. I really like where we are at right now. The hunting units along the Idaho border, and Idaho itself are in fact down, but even the lower part of unit 250 is seeing increased growth trends and calf stabilization.
Too many folks went overboard with the liberal cow season and extended seasons. Remember the great Lolo peak massacre in Sula? Folks just hammering into the herd, it was truly disgusting. Increased lion season, extended spring bear, liberal wolf harvest and reasonable cow seasons are the ticket in my view.
TwoBear
Thanks for that post. I spend a lot of time outside looking for deer and elk, to hunt during the season and to photo the rest of the year. The amount of elk I see is amazing, at least to me. Access to the elk, IS a problem. Lots of elk seem to stay on private land where there is limited or no hunting allowed.
Fred