I was waiting at the range for 3 guys to check zeroes on their elk rigs this weekend. I couldn't see their targets, but they each fired what seemed like 10 to 15 rounds in as many minutes, never adjusting the scopes, before proclaiming there would be some dead bulls in their camp the following week. Well, they packed up and left but "forgot" to clean up their brass and also left their paper targets hung. I picked up their brass and went to fetch their targets and hang mine. Lets just say I hope they don't see any bulls over 100 yds.

Were they zeroing rifles or patterning shotguns?

They probably hunt like they shoot, so the elk should be safe.

Looks like a lot of potential wounding.

More than adequate, few hunters are actually shooters.

That shooting was off of a bench with a slow heart rate. If they have to walk over 5 minutes,and get some adrenaline going after seeing an elk,those said elk should be safe at any range past 50 yds.

I understand why no adjustments were made; I wouldn't know where to make any either! Adjusting POA/POI in this instance appears to be a crapshoot.

They will need bigger guns next year

If the elk simply stand still they'll be safe. If they take off running, they could run into a bullet........

Looks like the side of Snoopy's dog house after he tackled with the Red Baron!!!

The REALLY scary part.

These guys are the ~10% that actually went out to punch some paper before the season.
They are way ahead of the ~60% that see absolutely no need to waste time on that.

Maybe their guns were smooth bores.....

What a mess.

I doubt those guys get out of camp if they even get out of the truck..

Saw much worse at 25 yards a few years ago at the local range, when two older guys were resting their rifles off a stack of short 2x4's. This was three days before the deer/elk opener. They were still whacking away at 25 when I left an hour later. It may have been the high point of their hunting season.

A guy in boot camp never could get his M14 to shoot further than 20 to 25 feet in front of the firing line. His eyes would close, he started shaking, the M14 would be swinging around, when the gun got the right angle about -10 degrees or lower it would go off. He was covered with sweat by the time 10 rounds would be shot. He never hit paper.

I'm sure he scared a lot of gooks with his skill set.

My 7x57 probably shoot better then that with 6mm rem. ammo and I am sure my .260 will shoot .243s better then that......

When I had my own range forty years ago and my Klienguenther K14 was new but waiting for the scope I shot as well as the middle one just aiming down the barrel off hand. Those guys are scary.

I hope they were at least shooting offhand. That's pretty sorry shooting... I've seen this a lot at the range. There are a lot of guy, even some here, that think you don't have to shoot targets and zero your rifles to humanely kill a game animal. I've heard it many times..

Well, if they put enough lead in the air, the elk are bound to run into some of it.

Wow, those are some good groups. Wish I could shoot like that.

Those are 1000 yard targets right?

You probably know this but minute of angle is 1/60 of one degree of angle and there is 360 degrees in a circle.
It works out that at 100 yards 1MOA is slightly greater than 1", close to 1.05" if I recall correctly.

Minute of deer or minute of elk - has a meaning of??

Well this year I herd a group of hunters cracking at a herd. Not sure how many hunters, hopefully more then one, but it was rapid fire at long range. I was miles away and could hear the rounds cut through the air for several seconds. Made me sick because the herd was bunched up.

Ugh, that's horrible stuff. Wounded elk are never okay with me. If I knew they were limiting themselves to a 100 yards, that'd be okay but I'm sure they are "good to 600 with their Ol Betsy"....

yep

I know a guy who was zeroing his rifle in on a cereal box the day of the hunt at about 25 yds.

I remember my first Montana Elk hunt , 2 guys showed up with brand spanking new Weatherby Fibermarks 340 bee. I think they shot 2 foot groups at 100 yards. Damn flame coming out of the bore impressive as all get out. I think the Elk will be safe with those guys out hunting provided they are at least 100 yards away SMH

Good enough to hit the vitals of the deer or elk at teh distance/position/wind you are dealing with.

Though I hate any gun thats not sub MOA, I still know enough to know that MOA is not required for most situations...

"Spray and pray" is a shooting "technique" with some . . .

Some people sight them in, never check again until they miss.

I think guys who say I never had a problem with any of my scopes fall into this category.

Damned if one of these guys won't kill an elk by sheer happenstance and claim to be a marksman. I have a friend who kills elk most years but ver rarely will sight in or practice. He shoots a 300 Weatherby with factory ammo and refuses to join my cousin and I for a range session. I've offered to sight it in for him but he isn't concerned.

Two years ago he shot his bull in the head from just over 300 yards..... still says that was where he was aiming.

IF they wound an animal, next year they'll need a magnum.
whats's worse is I know a guy or two who shoot like this. One wants a bigger gun next year and the other thinks some how he is capable for shooting 300+ yards.
SMH

Dre, shooting 300 hundred yards doesn't require a magnum, just skill..

coyote hunter,
I know you dont need a magnum.
let me clarify.
One guy I know wounded a big branch bull this year with his 270win, should have been a chip shot from what I heard. Next year he wants an 'elk caliber'.... 300WM. he isn't the best shot with his 270. Even though I suggested just trying a different stock to reduce the recoil as this 270 kicks like a mule. Nope.
The other guy is 3 or 4? inches high at hundred going for MPBR.
at 200 yards he 2 if not 3 MOA guy. kind of what the OP pics looks like.
Im no sniper or want to talk smack. Just saying.

I don't talk smack what ever that crap is.. I just shoot.. Have been shooting for 60 years.. I hear this crap about a guy wanting a bigger gun because he can't shoot all the fffin time.. the problem is the guy.. He can't shoot.. A bigger gun won't solve the problem.. but the .300 is one hell of a caliber.. If all you ever shot is an 06, then don't knock it.. I wish when these discussion start everyone HAD to tell how many elk they have shot.. We get all this crap from some clowns who want to hunt elk or have shot one or two or 5 or 10.. Under what conditions.. With whom.. Most of these clowns are hot air and nothing else..

I laugh everytime I go to the range around here . People will shoot one time off of a wood block [southern gun rest] , I can see the end of the barrel moving a lot -then adjust the cheap scope . Shoot again then adjust the scope until their one box of ammo is down to 6-7 rounds then call it good .
Bay county shooting range has a 300 yard range with steel targets -one is a buffalo -if they hear a hit it proves they are a good shot in their mind. You have to qualify by hitting a sheet of notebook paper at 100 yards , initially it was 5 shots and make 5 hits but so few could do it became as many shots as needed to put 5 on the sheet of paper . True -funny & sad .
When I shot a 3/4" group with my custom 280AI the range operator about died .

Sometimes I think there should be performance rules on getting a hunting license -you can't shoot -you can't hunt . I hate the thought of wounded game suffering & feeding the coyotes and bears .

To paraphrase Josey Wales, coyotes and bears got to eat, same as humans.

I'm not an elk hunter, but if I was going out west, I'd make darn sure I could shoot a heck of a lot better than that. Of those three targets, not a single round found it's way to the bull's eye.

I've helped a lot of guys sight in, and I've only had a couple that looked that bad by the time we were done. I wouldn't be surprised to learn those guys were shooting multiple loads of different manufacture and or bullet weight.

The ones that never ceased to amaze me were the guys that show up at the range the day before deer season with a new rifle, and a $40.00 scope. The rifle's been boresighted, and they want to start at 100 yards.

It makes me cringe to think how many animals are wounded and lost for no other reason than hunters not putting in enough range time to prevent groupings like those shown here.

Hes lying. Those are Kimber test targets....

W

What is the kill zone,size wise,of a bull elk? Boiler room size? Thanks

The boiler room is about the same size as the bread basket. Use a premium pill and he's DRT.

Never measured one, I estimate 16".

Before I quit using the public range, those groups were the norm for most people I saw in the two weeks before season started...

Bawahahaha!!! We have them in the waterfowling community also.... Year after year shoot at birds 70/120 yards away... They have educated more birds then they kill.. Sadly 60% think nothing is wrong with this..

The worst is when they do hit something.. That just reinforces the stupidly...

If you think this is OK then please sell your guns and take up badminton...

I shot an old German built Weatherby Mark 5 In .378( 24" light contour barrel, no brake) in this fashion. It had a sharp ejector and needed to be test fired to be sure the problem was cured. With no scope I easily hit a 1 foot rock several times with no misses. And that gun genuinely kicked with 300 gr. factory loads.

I was at private range about a decade ago that opened for few weeks for hunters sight in. The gents next to me had a similar target but at 50 yards. Heard one of the gents say to the other, "Hey Jack, isn't that the rifle you missed all them deer with last year?". Regardless of the rifle they shot, all of their targets looked that way. I suspect that these guys were just a snapshot of the majority of hunters out there.

Did group norms get better after you quit the range?

Perhaps those shooters were just drawing pictures.


Did the groups look anything like this?