Ok, I'm new to reloading and haven't fired one round in competition yet but I have a basic question. From what I've read, the service rifle competition requires that the AR-15 be pretty much a standard rifle. Specifically, I think I read where it cannot have a flash hider and that's where the confusion comes in. I've been looking at the Rock River Arms site and below is a link to the pic of their National Match A2 and it HAS the flash hider. The details on the web page also indicate a flash hider and I cannot find anything on their site about a barrel without it. So, what's the deal?

http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/punma2.gif

This noob needs educating.

flash hider is aok.

You can have you on the rifle, however you do not have to.

When the Assault weapons bill was still in effect CMP changed the rules, so you could have Post-ban (NO flash hider)

the Rock River NMA2 1/2x1/2 is what I usually recommend to beginners. http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=226

the NMA4 which has a removable NM carry handle is also now CMP legal

the flash hider & bayo lug are optional per CMP rules, I think it looks better and the flash hider might protect the muzzle from a drop in the grass. There is a remote possibility that the plain barrel be more accurate.

now get out and SHOOT!

Poole

The wording is something to the effect of "must maintain original exterior appearance".

As others have said, since they did have flash suppressors prior to the assault weapons ban, they are good to go.

Thanks for all the info guys. I just got my lower yesterday and my first AR is assembled and ready to go. Now I'll be heading to the range this week to start having fun with it. My wife is cracking up at the fact that I'm 58 yo and am still buzzed like a little kid at Christmas.

Here's my new toy.

Who wants to tell him about the magazine?

That looks like a 30 rd magazine. Last time I checked (while not preferred for position reasons), it was legal by CMP and NRA Rules.

Get out there and have fun with your new toy. If you find you're not seeing the front sight as nicely as you'd like, come back and the good folks here will walk you through that too.

I'd swap out the grip too

Okay I'll bite...what's wrong with the grip for Service Rifle Competition?

Yeah, I knew about the magazine. That was just my bragging photo I sent to relatives and friends. What about the grip?

The mag is legal as it looks like a 30 rounder. THe grip is also legal.

Yeah, the mag won't work for prone position and, although it's impossible to tell, I need to upgrade the trigger also. That's on my Christmas list.

Mind you, I don't shoot competition... and there's nothing wrong with the standard grip if it fits your hand well, but many folks feel the standard grip is suited for people with small hands. If you have medium to large hands, this standard grip ends up putting your trigger finger in an awkward place on the trigger - a bigger, more ergonomic grip, would probably put the first pad of your trigger finger right where it is supposed to be - giving you a better trigger pull, and hopefully a more accurate shot

Hey Jeff, is the Magpul trigger guard (with the belly in it) legal for service rifle hi-power?

AlaskaFE,
30rd mags are legal, but as you realize, they're not optimal for position shooting. I've done it though and it can be done. The USMC CIAP requires the use of 30's. You just need to build your prone position higher to keep the bottom of the mag off the deck. If you're going to use 20rounders, realize that not all of them are competition legal. They have to be like the old straight USGI 20's...not the cut-off 30's with the curve to them that some are selling.

Since it's got a black barrel, I'm guessing you didn't get the RRA NM? If that's the case, it's a toss up whether you upgrade the trigger first or put in a float tube. The Trigger will make it a better gun to shoot all the way around from plinking to varminting to competition. The float tube is essential for putting your shots consistently in the center from position. Both should run about $100 give or take.

Ivan,
In Service Rifle Competition which is the context of AlaskaFE's question, there's a requirement that the AR have basically the unaltered profile of a standard USGI A2. That would mean an aftermarket grip would not be legal. Folks of different body size and config have to adapt to a standard config, make it work and put rounds in the middle of the target. As an example, most of us are not shooting off the first pad on the trigger finger. I'd bet most are on the first joint and some on the 2nd. Allows a straight back movement, and also gives a lighter apparent pull (significant with a 4.5lb minimum tigger pull). Great sport ain't it!!

TooDogs,
I don't think the Magpul trigger guard is legal. But I have seen folk let the straight trigger guard swing loose.

okey dokey - I stand corrected

Thanks Chris. Since trigger was mentioned, and I do not wish to start a trigger war. I do have the 2 stage RRA trigger in both my AR15 rifles.

Reason one is cost. Reason two is I tune them (springs and disconnector) for 3 1/2# 1st stage, 1 1/8# second stage. I'll probably never be measured where I shoot for now, but I like being a scootch over the 4 1/2# minimum.

For me, I don't notice the first stage take-up pressure.

Thanks Chris, great post.

You are correct. I have the mid length upper with 1:9 twist and it's not a NM barrel. The plan is to have fun with what I have now and go for the keeper barrel later. Kinda like when I was young and single. Date now, marry later.

I have already decided I will go for the trigger upgrade first. I'll be taking it out to the range Thursday but I can already tell I do NOT like the standard trigger. Oh well, I was tired of waiting for RRA to deliver my rifle so I took what was available. Now to continue trigger shopping.

I'm going to stick with RRA parts as much as possible but I think I might be able to find a trigger out there for less than the $120 average price I've found so far. Since I have done little to no hands on maintenance to any of my weapons, how difficult will it be for a novice to drop a NM trigger in? Is it easier to just take it to a smith and let him install, adjust trigger pull, etc?

I have the one 30 round mag you saw in the picture and I also have one 20 round mag right now that's legal for competition. I need more though, lot's more. (I was warned this was gonna get expensive).

Thanks guys, great info here.

AFE, these are the mags I use and have had zero issues with. http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NH20 NHMTG straight body 20 round. Good price too.

Installing a RRA trigger is fairly painless, but I do have a bit of skill and experience tinkering with firearms. There is plenty of illustrated "how to" info on the net for trigger installs if you wish to learn this skill. You may be best off having the work done otherwise.

A nice handload is 53gr fbhp Hornady or Sierra Mk & 23.5 gr H322, 2.25" aol. accurate in a 1-9 bbl.

The mid-length upper (16" barrel, right?) is NOT legal for CMP NM competitions - it must be the 20" to be legal.
Also, the grip cannot be modified in any way - the one you've got is legal.

Thanks trigger. My current upper is just my toy for shooting on the range and home defense, etc. Eventually I'll be picking up a 20" Nm upper but the wait for them is quite a long time so I decided that for now I would blow my gun budget on instant gratification.

In the meantime, my next purchase will be a 2 stage trigger. The stock trigger SUCKS!

AlaskaFE
Ditto on the stock trigger...
I have the RR two stage in a couple of AR's. I bought it to install in my "Service Rifle Competition" gun, and it made me such a good shot I got one for my old Colt SP1 beater. The Colt had about a 4500 lb trigger pull (OK, so it was 7lbs or so), and the RR was a dream at 4.5 lbs compared to that!

I installed them myself. They were drop in parts so to speak, and if you've got the AR-15 manual for disassembly it's no sweat. I had forgotten how to do that part, but no problem with the instructions I had! I can't remember if the instructions came with the trigger, from the gun manual, the Army manual or the internet, but it wasn't really hard. IF you have any manual dexterity, give it a try. HINT: If you think you have to file anything, or get a bigger hammer, you should take everything to the local smitthy immediately!

I don't know if they're still out there, but I had an upper built by White Oak Armament to service rifle specs. It fits the requirement of service profile, no flash hider, 20 inch bbl with full heavy profile, weighs a ton. I should sell it, I've not been able to get time to compete and don't know when I will. Anyway, I would give WWA a thumbs up for service and quality if you start shopping for that match upper.

Best of luck.

Hey Alaska, Enjoy!!!

I, too, use the RRA 2-stage trigger in my AR. It's not nearly as good as a Geiselle, but costs almost 2/3 less. I'm knocking on Master scores with my RRA trigger.

Tuned up the RRAs are even better...

I went from a WOA NM upper to a CLE NM with a Krieger. Could just be the barrel, but I almost [bleep] my pants when I saw the difference. Not saying that CLE is better than WOA, but that when you spend more $$ to get a better barrel, you'll be amazed once you know what it can do.

I'm waiting right now to see what Santa brings. I doubt he'll have a RRA NM upper in his bag but heck, even if he only has some spare mags and a few reloading accessories I'll still be a happy camper. If I don't get the 2 stage trigger I'll be ordering it right away anyhow.

If you'd compare same barrels it would be same basically... How does I know... cause WOA uses CLE to do their Wilson tubes. But their Kriegers are done in house... well lets just say John has won a few national civilian titles with his guns and more than a few have been used by others to do similar feats.. one of his that I drove beat David Tubb.... says a bit.

Also not saying Frank and Theresa don't do a super job too.

Jeff

Both WOA is good stuff, I got a 204 Ruger upper, and had John make me a match upper for high power.

Both setups were awsome and shot very well

If you go either way WOA/WOP or CLE, definitely step up the barrel from the Wilson.

I"ve gone through a LOT of Wilson tubes for NTIT and practice guns. What they are.... cheap. THey are reasonable tubes but along the way the last fairly well, generally 4000 rounds or so which isn't bad for a cheaper buttoned tube, AND they are solid MOA tubes, truth be told I haven't had one that wasn't right at .75 moa and I"ve seen better...

I wouldn't use them if I was at the top of my game but for practice and short range tubes they are not bad and I've been snubbed by them a few times in matches cause the driver of the wilson just drove it better than I did mine....

Bottom line to that I thought when I started this game I could buy points too and you can to a certain extent, but was continually told until I was shooting a solid 90% plus that I should shoot cheap barrels and spend the extra money on practice ammo... WOW there was a gem of info in that statement....

Jeff, I like that rule; solid 90% then get a good barrel. When I look back in my scores in F-class, I found that I plateaued at around 87-88% and then I got a new barrel and climbed into the mid to high 90s at midrange. I broke into the 90% in LR and after switching over to the 308, I'm hoping to get to a consistent 95%+.

Definitely a very good guideline.

I'd say that might not be so solid for F class as you take human movement out of the picture sooner.. but I'd think by the time you hit 85% but 90% might be right due to target size discrepancy....

Here's a list of the things I did to mine back in the 1990's.

1. Krieger 1-7.75 twist barrel
2. Jewell trigger, although today I would get a Geisselle
3. Krieger/Millazzo float tube, although there are others today
4. Bykowski front and rear sights (http://www.hpirifles.com/) Don't know if he still makes them.
5. Weights inside the float tube and the buttstock to get weight up to about 12 lbs.
6. Biothane Sling from Turner Saddlery set up in Jim Owen's no-pulse method. (Takes 10 seconds to attach instead of 45 seconds.)

I would suggest floating the barrel first, then getting a new trigger. Your barrel may shoot already. I shot for a year before the factory Colt barrel became the limiting factor in my scores. You almost have to float the barrel because as soon as you put sling tension on, the barrel will move if not floated.

Have fun. Service rifle is fun. I have since built a full race match rifle, but haven't competed with it yet.

Fast Ed