Looking for a CMP approved 1911 for EIC matches. My brother is buying me my choice of handgun as a gift and I don't have a 1911 .45 yet, so I thought I'd get one that I could shoot CMP bullseye matches with.
Anyone got any recommendations?

By far, at least IMHO, the Beretta tweaked is a better gun at that game than the 1911.

I've shot 3 CMP leg matches, all wiht Berettas, and have 20 points to distinguished, both were golds, but then crossfired in a rapid somehow and nothing on the 3rd.

IF you run 1911, download the rapids IMHO.

The 9mm was SUPER accurate at 50 yards. I shot a fair amount of Xs with it.

I tried a couple of built 45s in practice and never did shoot as well with them.

Other than that, if going 1911, custom built would be the way to go. 3 inches at 50 yards though as a guarantee with ball is only the 10 ring with no room for error. The berettas build by Kidd were evidently well inside 3 incehs at 50

I've already got a Beretta, so I guess I'll just stick with it. Maybe get me something else entirely...like a .22 revolver...or maybe a compact 9mm for CC.

BTW Jeff, were your Beretta's stock or accurized?

Stock won't cut it in bullseye. Especially the CMP matches you mention IE leg matches

Kidd did the ones I shot. I don't know that he does them anymore. Which would be a shame. There is another that does them, maybe a Samm or Sams? Both were military armorers for pistol teams as I recall.

About 1700 ready to go years ago, you have the pistol so thats a start.

Were I to shoot bullseye vs CMP the 1911 would get the nod.

Jeff

One Pistol Distinguished shooter told me he made Distinguished with a plain old Beretta, I think new sights and that was it.

That could happen, I suppose you get teh right gun off the line maybe, and lucky.

But I've shot both rack and customs, never got lucky enough to grab a rack one that shot well enough, IMHO, to have an advantage over a good 1911.

Jeff,
Yes, David Sams does 'em but it's well over $2,000 and a 2-yr. wait. Out of principle alone, I'm not spending THAT much just to have one accurized.

And I did get lucky with mine, at least according to a young friend of mine, Christopher Hudock, who made the All-American pistol team and is triple distinguished (2 + revolver). He came home from the Citadel a couple of winters ago and needed to borrow a pistol for an EIC match because he left his somewhere else with the team or something, so I let him borrow mine (a $300 police trade-in from that place in Arizona, btw). He shot it and said it was "charmed"...said not to fool with it.
Maybe I'll look into some better sights for it, but I think I'll leave it alone and just try it stock.

Try away. 2000 is chump change in competitive shooting. I'd drop that in a heartbeat IF I was serious about it.

The wait no one can do anything about though. But its like good barrels, you end up waiting on them most of the time. But as good as teh good ones are, the wait doens't kill me.

Competitive shooting is not a Mc Donalds sport anyway.

BUT if another shooter shot yours and gave it good reviews, then get after it. I would find it hard to believe a stock Beretta would be a 3 inch or less ball gun at 50 yards for 10 shot groups but you might be lucky!

Good luck!

Jeff

Well I am kind of like you in that I wanted to try a CMP match but I did not want to put a lot into a pistol until I was sure about it. I have a Dan Wesson Point Man 7 that I shoot very little but they will not make the rules stock. Doing things on the cheap and not wanting to make any permanent changes to the gun; I put a GI hammer, grip safety, and thumb safety on the pistol to replace the stock parts that were not allowed. I then changed the spring so that it would pick up a 4 lb trigger weight. I can return the pistol to factory specs by just putting the parts back in. I do agree with the accuracy requirements discussed. I have not found any factory ammo that shot well enough to suit me. The Sierra 230 FMJ tournament master bullets are worth the money and get a load your pistol likes.

Below is a link to the rule book. Pages 31 - 37 explain the pistol requirements and what is permitted. Hope this helps.

http://www.odcmp.com/competitions/rulebook.PDF

Or if you are not serious about CMP pistol, just buy a good one, shoot a few matches until you are distinguished and P100 and then resell the pistol for most of what you have in it.

I guess you could go that way. If you look at entry leg scores, it seems that getting into the mid 250s gets you in contention. A search of local matches shows some in the 260s while you will see someone leg in the 240s in some reports. At Perry this year, the sheet shows 29 got 10 leg points with the lowest at 255. I am new to this and only shot 2 matches. The first I did about everything wrong and got a 240 and the second I was not smooth but better than before and shot a 258. I am going to shoot a third and see what happens. I have to be better before I can justify $2000 for a ball gun.

National Scores: http://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.php?do=match&task=edit&tab=results&match=10086

Or you have to have a better gun before you can shoot a better score... possibly.

Folks keep harping on distinguished, but I'd rather be shooting hi-master any time, than distinguised. A person can literally "get lucky" in a few EIC matches, and end up distinguished, yet not end up rated very high.

Of course some of us just want to have the double distinguished badge and never shoot pistol again.

But I agree on lucky. I never was though. Had to shoot IIRC 270 plus for legs. Which, at least for me, having only shot 3 leg matches and no other pistol in my life other than IDPA a few times, doesn't seem bad.

Of cousre if you are shooting high master with a pistol, you should already be distinguished.

I'm high master both XC and LR with teh AR in service rifle. Its kinda hard to make HM with an AR at long range....

I don't know anything about CMP requirements, but I have 3 Colt 1911 pistols that were owned by a Korean War vet and active military match shooter who recently passed on. His wife has asked me to sell off his firearms. There are 3 1911s, 1 is 1943 issue, one is a Govt Series 70, and one is a real McCoy US ARMY National Match.

The 1943 and the Series 70 have been fitted for target shooting, with top rib extensions by Bomar and Giles, and have stippling on the front grip like a National Match.

I'll sell the original National Match as a collector, but the other 2 would make good shooters, for sure. I have a few hundred rounds of the wadcutter ammo he used in the handguns as well.

What are you calling real mccoy us army national match? Its possible I could be interested.

I would like to buy the one in the center without a rib. How much for it? Thanks.

Price and description on the wadcutter too please.

I had it looked at by a retired ARMY armorer. We went through all the subtle markings, numbers, and all that to make sure it wasn't a dummied-up 1911. The deceased owner was a Korean War vet and remained active in shooting military match events throughout his life, so that didn't surprise me. Unlike the Govt (civilian) and Gold Cup National Match pistols, a US ARMY NM was made for use by the military shooting teams. Not a whole lot of authentic ones out there.

actually there are a LOT more authentic ones otu there than you might now. Armorers made a bit of spare change on the side working on them for buddies and competitors and such.

Now that we know its an actual built NM and not just a "gold cup" thing, got any clue of accuracy, barrel rounds fired etc? And how much is the price.

You can PM me the info if you like.

I had one once, a buddy had it done at Ft Benning while he was still in, but he bought it back from me...

Jeff,

I had a 45 built by an older gentleman,(Jack Maples) that was the best pistol armorer the USAMTU ever had,. Gun was built for a friend who sick and couldn't pay. When it was offered to me I jumped. When I got my hands on it, with match it was an honest 2" gun at 50 yards through the ransom rest. 10 shots were grouped the size of a silver dollar.
I still have it and would like to compete, but now will wait to get my hands on a M-9.

Best Regards,

Lee Land

Lee, the M 9, other than its obnoxious size grips, to my hands anyway, is hands down a winner over the 1911.. I have neither that I personally own, but wished like hell I owned a Kidd M9......

When you want to sell the 1911, I would purchase, finish my last 10 leg points, and thank God I got a hard leg for the first points( that probably isn't even required anymore....) and could sell it back to ya. Grins.

Good luck on the quest. I wish I'd have pushed myself to shoot at least a 4th pistol match and probably would be done by now. I'm betting the Kidd 9mm was probably an honest 1 inch to 1.5 inch gun at 50 as well as it shot.

Keep your head down as they say, watch your six.

Jeff

Here's a Kidd M9, built by him when he was at the AMU. It'll shoot into 1.5" or so at 50 yds from a machine rest. It's issued to me; I shot it this year at Perry.
Bob

thats a left nut, no both nuts picture... oh what I'd give for one....

If i were to chase a pistol leg, I'd get a 92 built by "doc Nick". Zins shoots his guns. That's good enough for me.

We have several "Doctor Nick" guns...not very good. They're all slated for rebuild early next year at Benning by the AMU. Major problem with Nick is he doesn't return calls and won't fix his work (after saying he'll get back to us). His quality control isn't the best; two guns have lost their rear sights after less than a 1000 rds...about a month of practice. The best-built guns now are by the Army and Marine Marksmanship Units, and a couple of retired/former military armorers.
Bob

Anyone got some BBQ sauce for that Crow I'm eating? That teaches me to talk outside of what I know first hand. Coincidentally, I ran into one of my Bullseye shooting friends. He basically brought me up to speed on Doc Nick and echoed what you're saying. Doc Nick hasn't stood the test of time. He says Sams is the man now!

Shoot me a PM if you want an M9 built; I know someone here in central TX, trained at the AMU, who has built more than a few M9s. He also works on Hammerlis, Pardinis, Toz, etc. He's the only guy I let touch my target pistols, outside of the AMU Benning gunsmiths.
Bob

was lucky to know Jack Maples when I shot Bullseye in the 80s

Outstanding 1911 smith

we were very lucky in Ga to have many of the retired Benning smiths retire here.. many shot on our Ga Teams up at Perry

I guess I'm going to be in the minority here, but I would go with a 1911 .45 with no reservations. I can't think of any advantage the M9 would offer. There are only a couple of gunsmiths available to civilians capable of producing match quality M9's and they are very expensive. There are many 1911 'smiths who can turn out a match ready pistol. At least for me, the 1911 is easier to shoot.
Phil

FWIW I've never seen a 1911 ball gun shoot as well as an M9 at 50. Thats important to me. 2-3 inches at 50 for 1911 ball guns, vs 1 inch easy at 50 for a good M9 ball gun.

I wobble enough as it is.

Could get by with about anything at 25.

PS I hate the feel of the M9 and love the feel of the 1911.

Much like I love an M14 and an AR feels not great. But we shot the AR because it was better in CMP all around.

[quote=rost495]FWIW I've never seen a 1911 ball gun shoot as well as an M9 at 50. Thats important to me. 2-3 inches at 50 for 1911 ball guns, vs 1 inch easy at 50 for a good M9 ball gun"

1" group at 50?, Was that a typo?
Phil

Well, it wasn't a typo. I called Sams this morning and he guarantees 1". Live and learn.
Phil

Like I said the M9s are FLAT amazing.

My first 50 yard offhand score with one was a 94-3x in a leg match. It was about the 3rd time I'd shot the gun or even practiced before the leg match.

If the rapid fire groups would be even close to that score... I just am too much into having to see sights stop and squeeze the trigger... and there isn't enough time for that in 10 seconds X 5 shots.... I yank and I know I yank...

Well, there's a lot more to it than that and I seriously doubt that either you or I can tell the difference between a 1 inch pistol vs. a 3 inch pistol unless we have it in a Ransom Rest.

As I stated earlier, first thing right up is cost. To my knowledge only Kidd and Sams are capable of building the M9 to that level for civilians. And it is expensive, like 2000 plus for a M9 where as plenty of .45 smiths are around and you can get a top notch .45 built for less than 1000. Further, to get the 1 inch accuracy, you have to push the 9mm fast and hard. Accurized M9's seem to have a problem cracking the frames after several thousand of these hot rounds. No problem if you are shooting on a military team and have a gunsmith following you around, but its a big problem for people like me. Also, since you have to push the 9 so hard, recoil is little different than the .45 so you don't gain anything there.

Finally, if you shoot the CMP matches and like them, you will undoubtedly begin shooting NRA conventional pistol where you will shoot .22, centerfire (.32 caliber or larger), and .45. If you want to use the M9 there, only the centerfire portion is available and you've still got to shoot a .45. If you use a .45 for CMP, you could use it in both the NRA centerfire and .45 matches.
FWIW
Phil
Distinguished Pistol badge #880
Presidents 100
Elihu Root Gold Medal

Well, all I've shot are CMP leg mathces and a few bullseye matches in practice for a leg...

I've shot great 45s and 2 great 9s. For me, I could damn sure tell the difference at 50 yards between the 2 guns accuracy issues.

FWIW we never pushed the 9s hard to get the 1 inch at 50.... some may, we didn't have to.

And I'm not a pistol shooter, was just hoping to get my dist pistol badge in 3 matches and out. So no worries on me buying more pistols. I"m a service rifle shooter through and through.

Jeff,

If you need the loan of a good gun to finish your leg, I've got one for you. It's finished by one of the best, Jack Maples from the AMU.Say the word and I'll have my son ship it your way.

Lee

Lee, I may take you up on that. I'll try to remember, I don't have the time to shoot this year, but maybe in the next 1-2 I can dedicate a month or two to practicing, and then go shoot a final( I hope) leg!

Thanks, Jeff