In a steel hunting barrel, I like the 18” for general purpose use to 500 yards.
I started with a heavy 24” and it was good for shooting from a bench but it was big and heavy. I sold the upper and got a medium contour 24” and it shoots just as well but a little lighter weight. Still big but good for long shots on prairie dogs.
A few years later, I got an 18” steel HB and it’s the best for the bulk of my hunting. It is a bit heavy to carry a lot but is portable and feels like the right size for hunting from blinds and carrying in the truck. It gets used 10:1 compared to the 24” above.
A LW Peezer 18" will shoot wellllllll under MOA. Fhuqk the heavy schit. Hint............
I’m not sure what the Peezer is but I’ve used a bunch of PSA uppers with the standard weight 18’s being the best so far but all being good. None have been stinkers and they’ve all shot. And they’re pretty cheap comparatively.
I have a JSE Surplus 18" heavy barreled upper in 223 Wylde. On 12x I have kept 10 rounds of Federal 69 grain Match ammo inside and inch at 100 yards. I've done the same with handloads using Sierra 69 grain bullets and IMR 8208 BR powder.
A LW Peezer 18" will shoot wellllllll under MOA. Fhuqk the heavy schit. Hint............
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^in spades.
That RRA won't do a thing that a quality barreled 18" SPR at around 32 oz won't do as well or better. Or the same in 16".
And you won't need wheels to get it where it needs to be.
MM
WOA 18" SPR, Vltor MUR upper, SOPMOD stock.
Listen to these guys. I tote an 18” PSA literally all the time, if the truck leaves the driveway that rifles in it. It has never bobbled with any bullet or load and drives tacks on the rare occasion I am forced to shoot paper. It flat excels at killing stuff and the only thing I wish it was that it isn’t is lighter, I can’t imagine voluntarily carrying extra weight. It’s never seen a cleaning rod and I’ve got a $20 that says it’d put 3 Hornadys or Sierras under my thumbnail at 100 right now.
This gun has a White Oak SPR barrel that was turned down similar to the old Colt pencil profile, and it shoots little tiny groups.
This has a custom barrel as well (cant recall which off the top of my head)
I have had varmint profile barrels in the past on ARs and they sucked for field use. If all you do is carry one from your truck to the bench at the local range then I suppose they would be fine, but if you are going to hunt with one or carry it in the field, I would definitely stay away from a varmint profile.
Listen to these guys. I tote an 18” PSA literally all the time, if the truck leaves the driveway that rifles in it. It has never bobbled with any bullet or load and drives tacks on the rare occasion I am forced to shoot paper. It flat excels at killing stuff and the only thing I wish it was that it isn’t is lighter, I can’t imagine voluntarily carrying extra weight. It’s never seen a cleaning rod and I’ve got a $20 that says it’d put 3 Hornadys or Sierras under my thumbnail at 100 right now.
Due the simplistic fact,that you are forced to steal pictures and even "your" Avatar,I'm VERY "surprised" to learn,that you need a co-signer for Scopes too...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Please cite the "$300 Athlons",which are sooooooooo above your Pay "Grade" and trouble you so. HINT.
Pardon wares that exist,if only to your Couchbound Chagrin. Hint.
Due the simplistic fact,that you are forced to steal pictures and even "your" Avatar,I'm VERY "surprised" to learn,that you need a co-signer for Scopes too...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Please cite the "$300 Athlons",which are sooooooooo above your Pay "Grade" and trouble you so. HINT.
Pardon wares that exist,if only to your Couchbound Chagrin. Hint.
18” SS Wylde Rifle gas. Not sure what the cheese grater hand guard is called, personally I’d rather a plain tube but they didn’t sell them like that and I ain’t investing any more money than necessary in my truck gun. It was a “rifle kit” I bought from PSA a few years ago to replace my old truck gun that was stolen.
18” SS Wylde Rifle gas. Not sure what the cheese grater hand guard is called, personally I’d rather a plain tube but they didn’t sell them like that and I ain’t investing any more money than necessary in my truck gun. It was a “rifle kit” I bought from PSA a few years ago to replace my old truck gun that was stolen.
18” SS Wylde Rifle gas. Not sure what the cheese grater hand guard is called, personally I’d rather a plain tube but they didn’t sell them like that and I ain’t investing any more money than necessary in my truck gun. It was a “rifle kit” I bought from PSA a few years ago to replace my old truck gun that was stolen.
What little reading I can find on it suggests that it is easily sub MOA. What are your experiences with heavy barrel AR 223s?
I had a Bushmaster V-Match (I think that’s right). Long time ago. It was very accurate, but a bit awkward to shoot. Not the exact question, but I also had a DPMS 308LR, which is an AR10, just a big honkin’ thing. INCREDIBLY accurate rifle, just amazing really. But a BEAST. Again, I find the ergo’s of an AR are a bit awkward for precision shooting; so big heavy AR-pattern rifles haven’t “stuck” with me. But they’ve all been accurate, to your point.
18” SS Wylde Rifle gas. Not sure what the cheese grater hand guard is called, personally I’d rather a plain tube but they didn’t sell them like that and I ain’t investing any more money than necessary in my truck gun. It was a “rifle kit” I bought from PSA a few years ago to replace my old truck gun that was stolen.
When you order something like that, do you simply need to attach it to a "complete" lower to have a functional gun? Is this part the part that requires shipment to an FFL?
What little reading I can find on it suggests that it is easily sub MOA. What are your experiences with heavy barrel AR 223s?
I had a Bushmaster V-Match (I think that’s right). Long time ago. It was very accurate, but a bit awkward to shoot. Not the exact question, but I also had a DPMS 308LR, which is an AR10, just a big honkin’ thing. INCREDIBLY accurate rifle, just amazing really. But a BEAST. Again, I find the ergo’s of an AR are a bit awkward for precision shooting; so big heavy AR-pattern rifles haven’t “stuck” with me. But they’ve all been accurate, to your point.
When you order something like that, do you simply need to attach it to a "complete" lower to have a functional gun? Is this part the part that requires shipment to an FFL?
Yes, it will attach to a complete lower. No FFL needed for the upper. FFL transfer is for lower receivers.
I like em. Have a RR upper (heavy and short) and a stag 6 (heavy and long) that are easy under an inch
They’re both pigs but soft shooting and only get carried to a bench and back so the weight isn’t a factor
I think there were more Stag 6 rifles in the black rifle challenge that shot under moa than any other rifle. I remember guys like you were suggesting it, so I bought one. The rifle shot amazing, but it was too heavy. If I were just going to shoot off a bench all day, I'd be using one of those. Needless to say, I sold it after I bought my first 20" barreled rifle. My 20" is fluted and is a lot lighter than the big 24" barreled stag. I am one that doesn't like the 18" or shorter rifles. They do not shoot as smoothly as the 20" rifle length system. That's my choice.
18” SS Wylde Rifle gas. Not sure what the cheese grater hand guard is called, personally I’d rather a plain tube but they didn’t sell them like that and I ain’t investing any more money than necessary in my truck gun. It was a “rifle kit” I bought from PSA a few years ago to replace my old truck gun that was stolen.
When you order something like that, do you simply need to attach it to a "complete" lower to have a functional gun? Is this part the part that requires shipment to an FFL?
Ahhh.... this is your first AR..... ho boy, are you in for a treat. There’s a whole other world of shootin’ to be had in AR’s. The bang for the buck is amazing- due to the .gov investment, they are extremely high-quality, well engineered and debugged rifles. And ridiculously cheap for what you get. Even the bad ones, are damn good, compared to just about any other civilian semi-auto.
I will warn you, you can’t really have just the one.... They are like bikes that way (got my Spec Ultegra Roubaix out for a spin today, felt awesome)...
18” SS Wylde Rifle gas. Not sure what the cheese grater hand guard is called, personally I’d rather a plain tube but they didn’t sell them like that and I ain’t investing any more money than necessary in my truck gun. It was a “rifle kit” I bought from PSA a few years ago to replace my old truck gun that was stolen.
When you order something like that, do you simply need to attach it to a "complete" lower to have a functional gun? Is this part the part that requires shipment to an FFL?
Ahhh.... this is your first AR..... ho boy, are you in for a treat. There’s a whole other world of shootin’ to be had in AR’s. The bang for the buck is amazing- due to the .gov investment, they are extremely high-quality, well engineered and debugged rifles. And ridiculously cheap for what you get. Even the bad ones, are damn good, compared to just about any other civilian semi-auto.
I will warn you, you can’t really have just the one.... They are like bikes that way (got my Spec Ultegra Roubaix out for a spin today, felt awesome)...
I have an AR and have taken them completely apart and put them back together (military) I have never purchased the "uppers" and "lowers" to "build" one and don't want to make any assumptions based on what I think I know.
When you order something like that, do you simply need to attach it to a "complete" lower to have a functional gun? Is this part the part that requires shipment to an FFL?
Yes, it will attach to a complete lower. No FFL needed for the upper. FFL transfer is for lower receivers.
I like em. Have a RR upper (heavy and short) and a stag 6 (heavy and long) that are easy under an inch
They’re both pigs but soft shooting and only get carried to a bench and back so the weight isn’t a factor
I think there were more Stag 6 rifles in the black rifle challenge that shot under moa than any other rifle. I remember guys like you were suggesting it, so I bought one. The rifle shot amazing, but it was too heavy. If I were just going to shoot off a bench all day, I'd be using one of those. Needless to say, I sold it after I bought my first 20" barreled rifle. My 20" is fluted and is a lot lighter than the big 24" barreled stag. I am one that doesn't like the 18" or shorter rifles. They do not shoot as smoothly as the 20" rifle length system. That's my choice.
I just found that thread. I don't know whether to thank you or cuss you. It is raining today.
If I was looking for a complete lower right now, it would be hard to find anything that could beat the Palmetto lowers with Magpul MOE furniture. That's a lot of lower, for little coin. Here is a blem for 140 bucks, free shipping.
If I was looking for a complete lower right now, it would be hard to find anything that could beat the Palmetto lowers with Magpul MOE furniture. That's a lot of lower, for little coin. Here is a blem for 140 bucks, free shipping.
Function trumps beauty in lots of places. For what I use an auto loading rifle for I look at aesthetics just about last.
FWIW my rifle is the above mentioned PSA upper on a spray painted Anderson blem lower with some kind of packet trigger Brownells had on blowout sale a few Black Fridays back.
And to give credit where it is due, I asked at the time what was a good value for my needs and Stick steered me in the right direction.
Do any of you have experience with the PSA EPT trigger?
It's sure as hell nowhere near any really decent aftermarket trigger, like a Geiselle.................just a nickel plated stock mil-spec version.
Don't waste money on it.
Especially if you're wanting a "prcision" or varmint rifle......................you'll want something significantly better.
Geiselle GS2 is a very good trigger for the money especially if you can find it on sale, & especially after you put a lighter (Wolff) trigger spring in it.
If you want an economical single stage trigger, Rise Armament has some decent models.
$520 Barring any objections from the masses, I am going to order this.
With PSA you want to stick with either their stainless barrels, that are made in house, or the CHF barrels made by FN. These are their best shooters, and IMO will give you the fewest issues. Their Nitrate barrels are more hit or miss in the accuracy department. Even Stick likes their 18" rifle gas barrels, and he don't like much, so that's telling you something.
Do any of you have experience with the PSA EPT trigger?
It's sure as hell nowhere near any really decent aftermarket trigger, like a Geiselle.................just a nickel plated stock mil-spec version.
Don't waste money on it.
Especially if you're wanting a "prcision" or varmint rifle......................you'll want something significantly better.
Geiselle GS2 is a very good trigger for the money especially if you can find it on sale, & especially after you put a lighter (Wolff) trigger spring in it.
If you want an economical single stage trigger, Rise Armament has some decent models.
MM
Another great trigger for the money is the 2 stage varmint match RRA. I use a bunch of them right along side the Geiselle SSAE and even a single stage CMC 3.5 pound that isn't bad. I prefer the RRA personally. Most times you can find it on sale at RTBA for $79.95. And of course the Larue tactical MBT2S is always a great option as well..
If your old reliable NcStar doesn't work, try this one from Amazon. 900 5 star reviews! It's what the snipers in the Pakistan Navy Seals used when they were guarding Salami Ben Lorden.
If your old reliable NcStar doesn't work, try this one from Amazon. 900 5 star reviews! It's what the snipers in the Pakistan Navy Seals used when they were guarding Salami Ben Lorden.
I haven't decided what I want to do about optics yet.
If your old reliable NcStar doesn't work, try this one from Amazon. 900 5 star reviews! It's what the snipers in the Pakistan Navy Seals used when they were guarding Salami Ben Lorden.
If your old reliable NcStar doesn't work, try this one from Amazon. 900 5 star reviews! It's what the snipers in the Pakistan Navy Seals used when they were guarding Salami Ben Lorden.
Suh-WEEEEET!!
Do they have an easy payment option? Maybe Stick could afford one!
Have you ever shot an AR with a low ring setup? It’s terribly uncomfortable, due to the height of the gas tube in relation to the bore. I like lows on a bolt gun, but I want a rough height of 2.5” to centerline on an AR. Like most of your commercial 1pc mounts. (2.5" is centerline of bore to centerline of mount).
And I’m another +1 on the Wylde 18” PSA SS rifle-gas uppers. My favorite for the money so far. Mine shoots and carries well enough to warrant another.
Have you ever shot an AR with a low ring setup? It’s terribly uncomfortable, due to the height of the gas tube in relation to the bore. I like lows on a bolt gun, but I want a rough height of 2.5” to centerline on an AR. Like most of your commercial 1pc mounts.
And I’m another +1 on the Wylde 18” PSA SS rifle-gas uppers. My favorite for the money so far. Mine shoots and carries well enough to warrant another.
Hmmm. I have a scope on my current AR. It is mounted in medium rings on a riser that is less than 1/2 inch. It seems about right, but I'll have to go piddle with it some more. I thought if I could do away with the riser, I would.
Glad to hear that the PSA upper is working for you!
Just another view on the hi/lo ring thing. If you shoot prone, you'll want low rings for cheek weld. If you are going to be shooting offhand, higher rings are of some benefit. For most uses, I like my eye to be centered in the scope when I throw the gun to my shoulder. If I'm going to be shooting more than a few shots prone, I like them low to prevent neck pain.
I’m sure it’s a little over gassed with the can on it. Brass ejects at about 2:30. I just RTVed the charging handle and got back to shooting. I suppose I should change buffers or gas block someday. But so far no issues and it’s actually relatively clean inside. I probably only have 200 rounds through it since adding the can.
Good to know. Have a handful of cans in jail right now and one will definitely be purposed for a knock-around AR.
It’s the business for shooting pigs and coyotes. Doubles on coyotes are way easier since the second isn’t in high gear after the shot most times. And it confuses the hell out of pigs when you lay into a big bunch of them up close, they run towards me more often than not. A while back I killed 10 out of one group, had them circling around me confused as heck and I just kept shooting.
I remember seeing that post about that killing spree. Sounds like a really good day. I've connected with 4 a few times on rainy days when they weren't spooking off very far after a shot, but never 10.
Unless you have a huge objective that needs more, a mount that puts the centerline of the scope about 1.4-1.5" above the top of the rail on an AR is about right for most people.
Most picatinny rings & mounts will call out that dimension.
American Defense Mfg. (ADM) makes a variety of heights in their mounts. Seekins mount are good, not as much variety, & Warne's are decent.
ADM is almost overwhelming in their variety of offerings, but all I hear are good things. The last time I ordered one I went with the QD Warne 30mm XSKEL for about $150.
All those are good bullets, & I really like the RDF's in both 70 & 77's; the 60 TMK is good too & has been very accurate for me.............not a big fan of the ELD's but really haven't spent much time on them either.
Kinda depends of the range your going to be max'ing out at with the heavy bullets being best at longer ranges.....................but you already knew that.
TAC is usually more consistently accurate than CFE, but some have better luck than others with it.................for me, it's good enough to use, just not in the same league as several other more consistently accurate powders.
This has been a pretty good thread. What would you do if this was what you had on hand?
I’d trip the Lapuas to someone with a bolt gun or a brass catcher. Grab up a big box of once fireds with the money. Stuff the TMKs over some CFE. Use about 4 of them to zero and set to making varmints dead.
All those are good bullets, & I really like the RDF's in both 70 & 77's; the 60 TMK is good too & has been very accurate for me.............not a big fan of the ELD's but really haven't spent much time on them either.
Kinda depends of the range your going to be max'ing out at with the heavy bullets being best at longer ranges.....................but you already knew that.
TAC is usually more consistently accurate than CFE, but some have better luck than others with it.................for me, it's good enough to use, just not in the same league as several other more consistently accurate powders.
Anyway yes they fit in the mag. Fugly but they work. I've shot some 7-9x cleans 300 rapid fire with irons with mag length 75 amax. I never believed it until I tried it. IIRC I didn't have the same luck with JLK 75 at that time, had to go to a cut out mag with them.
Less that 62 gr = VV 133 62-70, & good enough with 77's = IMR 8208 XBR 70-77's = VV 540 (gets a little more velocity than 8208) Another great powder with 77's is Alliant 2000-MR
See this recent thread for lots of good input from a lot of good shooters on powder
Less that 62 gr = VV 133 62-70, & good enough with 77's = IMR 8208 XBR 70-77's = VV 540 (gets a little more velocity than 8208) Another great powder with 77's is Alliant 2000-MR
See this recent thread for lots of good input from a lot of good shooters on powder
If I remember right the 75’s won’t fit in the magazine so I’d run the 77’s with TAC at around 2750 fps.
Bingo.^^^^^ Wrong bullet shape because of the secant ogive on the 75. Kind of sucks because that is a good bullet. Just not in a standard AR 15 magazine.
I am still kicking around scopes. Since I already have a plinking AR, I want to put a scope that lends itself to greater precision. I won't be driving nails, purposefully dropping or staging in streams with salmon, so I don't need the best of the best. I mentioned this one earlier, and it is a good deal, but I think I want more than 4X.
I am still kicking around scopes. Since I already have a plinking AR, I want to put a scope that lends itself to greater precision. I won't be driving nails, purposefully dropping or staging in streams with salmon, so I don't need the best of the best. I mentioned this one earlier, and it is a good deal, but I think I want more than 4X.
As good a deal as any for the money.............at Camera Land, & you'll get it for less if you call & tell them who you are on the fire. Comes ins MIL or MOA reticle/turrets.
I am still kicking around scopes. Since I already have a plinking AR, I want to put a scope that lends itself to greater precision. I won't be driving nails, purposefully dropping or staging in streams with salmon, so I don't need the best of the best. I mentioned this one earlier, and it is a good deal, but I think I want more than 4X.
As good a deal as any for the money.............at Camera Land, & you'll get it for less if you call & tell them who you are on the fire. Comes ins MIL or MOA reticle/turrets.
Can't remember the details about the Trijicon but it was in the Optics Forum not too long ago, so try searching there.
That Optika is OK if you want to live with a scope of that magnification. Kinda limits precision if you want to stretch it out..................but that's a personal choice, scope is fine.
Lots of guys say they are fine with 6x to 500 yards or so, just a matter of precision, IMO, & the size of the target.
I'd buy a Trijicon loonngg before I'd buy an Athlon. The Trijicon doesn't have best-quality glass, but it ain't $2 grand either. I've shot 2 Athlons. One had 3MOA of parallax that couldn't be adjusted out, the other grouped like a shotgun. I did not screw with warrantee service on the one that was mine. I sent it back for a refund. Fixed junk is still junk.
Do any of you have experience with the PSA EPT trigger?
It's sure as hell nowhere near any really decent aftermarket trigger, like a Geiselle.................just a nickel plated stock mil-spec version.
Don't waste money on it.
Especially if you're wanting a "prcision" or varmint rifle......................you'll want something significantly better.
Geiselle GS2 is a very good trigger for the money especially if you can find it on sale, & especially after you put a lighter (Wolff) trigger spring in it.
If you want an economical single stage trigger, Rise Armament has some decent models.
MM
The Larue MBT or whatever it is called is really good as well. I have a bunch of G2S's and a few of the Larue's and the Larue's are as nice and I kinda like them a skosh more as well.
I have a bunch of PSA's like what is shown and haven't gotten into a stinker yet.
Can't remember the details about the Trijicon but it was in the Optics Forum not too long ago, so try searching there.
That Optika is OK if you want to live with a scope of that magnification. Kinda limits precision if you want to stretch it out..................but that's a personal choice, scope is fine.
Lots of guys say they are fine with 6x to 500 yards or so, just a matter of precision, IMO, & the size of the target.
MM
Sightron has some decent looking scopes as well. I have a couple of the Athlon's and one of the Trijicon 3-18's FFP/Mils. I love the Trijicon, but for 1/3 the Athlon is very very good. Some great options out there nowadays.
This has been a pretty good thread. What would you do if this was what you had on hand?
I'd be wishing I had primers and better powder, if that's all I had..
If thats all you had right now you'd be happy. At least I would be. TAC works very well. Won and placed in a lot of things using it as NTIT ammo with 77s. Had we kept shooting a lot I'd have had more uses for TAC also.
I'm not saying there isn't better, but TAC will easily suffice for anything needing done when you can't get supposed better powders off the shelf.
If I remember right the 75’s won’t fit in the magazine so I’d run the 77’s with TAC at around 2750 fps.
Bingo.^^^^^ Wrong bullet shape because of the secant ogive on the 75. Kind of sucks because that is a good bullet. Just not in a standard AR 15 magazine.
If I remember right the 75’s won’t fit in the magazine so I’d run the 77’s with TAC at around 2750 fps.
Bingo.^^^^^ Wrong bullet shape because of the secant ogive on the 75. Kind of sucks because that is a good bullet. Just not in a standard AR 15 magazine.
So the ELD-X isn't the old amax?
the 75 ELD M is about the same as the old Amax. When you said they looked funny loaded in AR mags I am almost surprised you didn't have to push the whole bullet into the neck to make it fit. I could be off though.
I'd buy a Trijicon loonngg before I'd buy an Athlon. The Trijicon doesn't have best-quality glass, but it ain't $2 grand either. I've shot 2 Athlons. One had 3MOA of parallax that couldn't be adjusted out, the other grouped like a shotgun. I did not screw with warrantee service on the one that was mine. I sent it back for a refund. Fixed junk is still junk.
If I remember right the 75’s won’t fit in the magazine so I’d run the 77’s with TAC at around 2750 fps.
Bingo.^^^^^ Wrong bullet shape because of the secant ogive on the 75. Kind of sucks because that is a good bullet. Just not in a standard AR 15 magazine.
So the ELD-X isn't the old amax?
the 75 ELD M is about the same as the old Amax. When you said they looked funny loaded in AR mags I am almost surprised you didn't have to push the whole bullet into the neck to make it fit. I could be off though.
Hornady says they are not for AR15 magazine length because of the shape of the bullet. They suggest single loading and an OAL of 2.390" I believe. There have been some guys load them for ar's, but they trim their brass back so they can apply a slight crimp. Just a hassle as far as I'm concerned. One of the reasons Hornady designed the 73gr ELD match bullet was for the AR so you can shoot a bullet with similar (I know, not nearly as good, but nonetheless) BC's as the 75gr, but it will fit in the magazine with no problems. As you said, the ELD match is basically the same thing as the old A max, but with some revisions to make it better... As for the ELDX, which Hornady never made a 75gr version, was designed to be more like the interlock, but with a polymer tip. Hornady says better for hunting, similar performance as the good ol interlock, but with a sleeker profile... A lot of you guys already know this
I'd buy a Trijicon loonngg before I'd buy an Athlon. The Trijicon doesn't have best-quality glass, but it ain't $2 grand either. I've shot 2 Athlons. One had 3MOA of parallax that couldn't be adjusted out, the other grouped like a shotgun. I did not screw with warrantee service on the one that was mine. I sent it back for a refund. Fixed junk is still junk.
This.
I wouldn't spend my money on an Athlon.
I'd like to say scopes are subjective, but they aren't. They either work or they do not. I've had excellent luck with Burris AR specific scopes on all of my ar's. From 223, 6WOA, 6.5 creedmoor and 308 winchester AR10's. The AR556 and AR7.62 4.5-14x42 rifle scopes have been excellent. Just my experience and the reason I use them. They track well and return to zero every time. No issues so far, but I do not shoot them to 1,000 yards, like I do my Nightforces... I've dialed them out to 500 a time or 3. Yes, I've had Trijicon too and was not happy with the glass. Not chidting on someone's favorite scope, just saying it was not for me. Like Leupold, if they work for you, use them. I see Hanco has some nice looking RRA's with heavy barrels (the subject of the thread). I don't know how much he shoots those rifles, but if they are working for him, that is great. I've seen many of them go tits up. Seen many Vortex go tits up too.
I'd buy a Trijicon loonngg before I'd buy an Athlon. The Trijicon doesn't have best-quality glass, but it ain't $2 grand either. I've shot 2 Athlons. One had 3MOA of parallax that couldn't be adjusted out, the other grouped like a shotgun. I did not screw with warrantee service on the one that was mine. I sent it back for a refund. Fixed junk is still junk.
This.
I wouldn't spend my money on an Athlon.
I'd like to say scopes are subjective, but they aren't. They either work or they do not. I've had excellent luck with Burris AR specific scopes on all of my ar's. From 223, 6WOA, 6.5 creedmoor and 308 winchester AR10's. The AR556 and AR7.62 4.5-14x42 rifle scopes have been excellent. Just my experience and the reason I use them. They track well and return to zero every time. No issues so far, but I do not shoot them to 1,000 yards, like I do my Nightforces... I've dialed them out to 500 a time or 3. Yes, I've had Trijicon too and was not happy with the glass. Not chidting on someone's favorite scope, just saying it was not for me. Like Leupold, if they work for you, use them. I see Hanco has some nice looking RRA's with heavy barrels (the subject of the thread). I don't know how much he shoots those rifles, but if they are working for him, that is great. I've seen many of them go tits up. Seen many Vortex go tits up too.
This comment and most of the others a great. I like to hear opposing points of view. The comments about Trijicon glass are interesting. I recently bought one (Credo) that I love the glass on. I think our individual eye difference plays heavily into what we consider good glass.
I also never knew of the 75 ELD not being recommended for ARs. It's not on the box anywhere. I have 2 223 bolt guns (9 twist) that I can try them in.
With the advent of the 77TMK, there's no reason to load 75 ELDs to mag length unless you just happen to have some to get rid of.
Exactly. Those are excellent bullets. I know beretzs likes them too. I'm thinking about going to Reno to buy some more.... Hit some of my favorite little gunshops a long the way too... You guys have fun discussing the ins and outs of highly accurate heavy barreled AR's.. Maybe some of you guys can talk some of these jokers (hanco, I'm talking you. I always hear how accurate your chidt is) into posting some 10 shot groups while I'm away. 2 of them side by side (saw that somewhere, maybe snipershide??? No, they shoot 5 shot groups like whiney little bitotches).. Like this for example:
Hey, stick likes posting pics. I wonder if he knows how to use a printer???
None of that 3 shot group bull chidt.. Well, unless you want. I guess rost has resorted to using more and more 1 and 3 shot groups, so its alright...I'm on board. ha ha.. at 4 and 600 yards maybe...with a lightweight bullet that isn't supposed to stabilize in my rifle. You boys have fun today. I know I will. Don't strain yourself too much, trying to measure your di cks....
With the advent of the 77TMK, there's no reason to load 75 ELDs to mag length unless you just happen to have some to get rid of.
Exactly. Those are excellent bullets. I know beretzs likes them too. I'm thinking about going to Reno to buy some more.... Hit some of my favorite little gunshops a long the way too... You guys have fun discussing the ins and outs of highly accurate heavy barreled AR's.. Maybe some of you guys can talk some of these jokers (hanco, I'm talking you. I always hear how accurate your chidt is) into posting some 10 shot groups while I'm away. 2 of them side by side (saw that somewhere, maybe snipershide??? No, they shoot 5 shot groups like whiney little bitotches).. Like this for example:
Hey, stick likes posting pics. I wonder if he knows how to use a printer???
None of that 3 shot group bull chidt.. Well, unless you want. I guess rost has resorted to using more and more 1 and 3 shot groups, so its alright...I'm on board. ha ha.. at 4 and 600 yards maybe...with a lightweight bullet that isn't supposed to stabilize in my rifle. You boys have fun today. I know I will. Don't strain yourself too much, trying to measure your di cks....
If I remember right the 75’s won’t fit in the magazine so I’d run the 77’s with TAC at around 2750 fps.
Bingo.^^^^^ Wrong bullet shape because of the secant ogive on the 75. Kind of sucks because that is a good bullet. Just not in a standard AR 15 magazine.
So the ELD-X isn't the old amax?
the 75 ELD M is about the same as the old Amax. When you said they looked funny loaded in AR mags I am almost surprised you didn't have to push the whole bullet into the neck to make it fit. I could be off though.
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by TWR
If I remember right the 75’s won’t fit in the magazine so I’d run the 77’s with TAC at around 2750 fps.
Bingo.^^^^^ Wrong bullet shape because of the secant ogive on the 75. Kind of sucks because that is a good bullet. Just not in a standard AR 15 magazine.
So the ELD-X isn't the old amax?
the 75 ELD M is about the same as the old Amax. When you said they looked funny loaded in AR mags I am almost surprised you didn't have to push the whole bullet into the neck to make it fit. I could be off though.
Hornady says they are not for AR15 magazine length because of the shape of the bullet. They suggest single loading and an OAL of 2.390" I believe. There have been some guys load them for ar's, but they trim their brass back so they can apply a slight crimp. Just a hassle as far as I'm concerned. One of the reasons Hornady designed the 73gr ELD match bullet was for the AR so you can shoot a bullet with similar (I know, not nearly as good, but nonetheless) BC's as the 75gr, but it will fit in the magazine with no problems. As you said, the ELD match is basically the same thing as the old A max, but with some revisions to make it better... As for the ELDX, which Hornady never made a 75gr version, was designed to be more like the interlock, but with a polymer tip. Hornady says better for hunting, similar performance as the good ol interlock, but with a sleeker profile... A lot of you guys already know this
Yup, I trust a manufacturer that hasn't done what they are saying not to do. I've done it. Seen it done. There are much better options now, but as noted in another post if its what you have.... I happen to have thousands of the 75 amax left around for practice ammo.
Never trimmed more. Doesn't need a crimp if you control neck tension. And if you load 100% case capacity which helps with accuracy to start with.
Then again I could be wrong.
Then again H said the amax was not a hunting bullet either..... Of course H has to put in print something that covers all the idiots out there than can't think for themselves.
Do any of you have experience with the PSA EPT trigger?
It's sure as hell nowhere near any really decent aftermarket trigger, like a Geiselle.................just a nickel plated stock mil-spec version.
Don't waste money on it.
Especially if you're wanting a "prcision" or varmint rifle......................you'll want something significantly better.
Geiselle GS2 is a very good trigger for the money especially if you can find it on sale, & especially after you put a lighter (Wolff) trigger spring in it.
If you want an economical single stage trigger, Rise Armament has some decent models.
MM
The Larue MBT or whatever it is called is really good as well. I have a bunch of G2S's and a few of the Larue's and the Larue's are as nice and I kinda like them a skosh more as well.
I have a bunch of PSA's like what is shown and haven't gotten into a stinker yet.
Yeah, I agree, the LaRue triggers are about the same as the Geiselle G2S, same comment there about the trigger spring..................I have 3 or 4 of the LaRue's.
Ya, I know, you never think to take pics, it’s bragging, etc.
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by Tyrone
With the advent of the 77TMK, there's no reason to load 75 ELDs to mag length unless you just happen to have some to get rid of.
Exactly. Those are excellent bullets. I know beretzs likes them too. I'm thinking about going to Reno to buy some more.... Hit some of my favorite little gunshops a long the way too... You guys have fun discussing the ins and outs of highly accurate heavy barreled AR's.. Maybe some of you guys can talk some of these jokers (hanco, I'm talking you. I always hear how accurate your chidt is) into posting some 10 shot groups while I'm away. 2 of them side by side (saw that somewhere, maybe snipershide??? No, they shoot 5 shot groups like whiney little bitotches).. Like this for example:
Hey, stick likes posting pics. I wonder if he knows how to use a printer???
None of that 3 shot group bull chidt.. Well, unless you want. I guess rost has resorted to using more and more 1 and 3 shot groups, so its alright...I'm on board. ha ha.. at 4 and 600 yards maybe...with a lightweight bullet that isn't supposed to stabilize in my rifle. You boys have fun today. I know I will. Don't strain yourself too much, trying to measure your di cks....
With the advent of the 77TMK, there's no reason to load 75 ELDs to mag length unless you just happen to have some to get rid of.
Exactly. Those are excellent bullets. I know beretzs likes them too. I'm thinking about going to Reno to buy some more.... Hit some of my favorite little gunshops a long the way too... You guys have fun discussing the ins and outs of highly accurate heavy barreled AR's.. Maybe some of you guys can talk some of these jokers (hanco, I'm talking you. I always hear how accurate your chidt is) into posting some 10 shot groups while I'm away. 2 of them side by side (saw that somewhere, maybe snipershide??? No, they shoot 5 shot groups like whiney little bitotches).. Like this for example:
Hey, stick likes posting pics. I wonder if he knows how to use a printer???
None of that 3 shot group bull chidt.. Well, unless you want. I guess rost has resorted to using more and more 1 and 3 shot groups, so its alright...I'm on board. ha ha.. at 4 and 600 yards maybe...with a lightweight bullet that isn't supposed to stabilize in my rifle. You boys have fun today. I know I will. Don't strain yourself too much, trying to measure your di cks....
bsa,aka bull shcitt artist...how bout you shoot as many 10 shot groups as your little heart desires and quit worrying about what everyone else is shooting......
Reading through this thread has got me fired up to dig out my Bushmaster Varminter. Great varmint rifle but just a little too heavy and long to be a comfortable hunting gun. Good luck, Dave
Jeff you've spent the past 4 years on here peddling your Trump Russian collusion lies. you've proven over and over again you're a low iq anti gun, anti hunting pathological liar and a drug addict
didn't you injure yourself opening a box of nobler bullets? prove me wrong
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Originally Posted by TheKid
Quote
Which model is that?
18” SS Wylde Rifle gas. Not sure what the cheese grater hand guard is called, personally I’d rather a plain tube but they didn’t sell them like that and I ain’t investing any more money than necessary in my truck gun. It was a “rifle kit” I bought from PSA a few years ago to replace my old truck gun that was stolen.
When you order something like that, do you simply need to attach it to a "complete" lower to have a functional gun? Is this part the part that requires shipment to an FFL?
Ahhh.... this is your first AR..... ho boy, are you in for a treat. There’s a whole other world of shootin’ to be had in AR’s. The bang for the buck is amazing- due to the .gov investment, they are extremely high-quality, well engineered and debugged rifles. And ridiculously cheap for what you get. Even the bad ones, are damn good, compared to just about any other civilian semi-auto.
I will warn you, you can’t really have just the one.... They are like bikes that way (got my Spec Ultegra Roubaix out for a spin today, felt awesome)...
Just ordered a Trijicon Credo 3-9x40 with MOA Precision Hunter reticle and Vortex (dumbest name in the optics industry) "co-witness" rings that will put me at 1.46" above bore. PSA shipped the lower today. Their uppers can take a bit longer to ship.
Just ordered a Trijicon Credo 3-9x40 with MOA Precision Hunter reticle and Vortex (dumbest name in the optics industry) "co-witness" rings that will put me at 1.46" above bore. PSA shipped the lower today. Their uppers can take a bit longer to ship.
You might want to double check that ring height dimension................I'm betting that dimension is 1.46" above the top of the rail, not the bore.
Just ordered a Trijicon Credo 3-9x40 with MOA Precision Hunter reticle and Vortex (dumbest name in the optics industry) "co-witness" rings that will put me at 1.46" above bore. PSA shipped the lower today. Their uppers can take a bit longer to ship.
You might want to double check that ring height dimension................I'm betting that dimension is 1.46" above the top of the rail, not the bore.
MM
Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that.
Not for me. But I’m cheap. I think I have the more expensive one you showed cause that’s what was available when I was looking but I wouldn’t have paid more if they were both available.
Manganese Phosphate BCG's have been known to work just fine (hint) & If you don't like it at some time in the future, you can upgrade it to something better than NiB, which is not the best coating in the world, IMO.
So, no, that price differential is not worth it IMO.................if it was DLC or chrome, then maybe so. IMO, good nitriding is better than NiB.
Manganese Phosphate BCG's have been known to work just fine (hint) & If you don't like it at some time in the future, you can upgrade it to something better than NiB, which is not the best coating in the world, IMO.
So, no, that price differential is not worth it IMO.................if it was DLC or chrome, then maybe so. IMO, good nitriding is better than NiB.
Everything arrived either yesterday or today. Can't say too much about it yet other than the trigger is fine with me. It weighs 8 pounds with mag, sans ammo. I did opt for high instead of extra high rings and like the way everything lines up. It'll be a bit before I get to shoot it.
Is that the EPT trigger? I ordered a couple of 16" railed carbine kits from them the other day with the Nickle-boron 2-stage they also sell, which I hear is a Schmid trigger. I've never had any of their triggers but the standard old mil-spec, and I always swap those out.
Rifle looks like it should work. Let us know how it does.
Is that the EPT trigger? I ordered a couple of 16" railed carbine kits from them the other day with the Nickle-boron 2-stage they also sell, which I hear is a Schmid trigger. I've never had any of their triggers but the standard old mil-spec, and I always swap those out.
Rifle looks like it should work. Let us know how it does.
It's the EPT trigger. It's worth noting that I can suffer an imperfect trigger better than most. It's worlds better than any M-16 I shot or my Ruger AR. No creep or gritiness.
Everything arrived either yesterday or today. Can't say too much about it yet other than the trigger is fine with me. It weighs 8 pounds with mag, sans ammo. I did opt for high instead of extra high rings and like the way everything lines up. It'll be a bit before I get to shoot it.
That scopes sitting too far back for my liking. I'd pull those rings and use a proper cantilever mount.
Everything arrived either yesterday or today. Can't say too much about it yet other than the trigger is fine with me. It weighs 8 pounds with mag, sans ammo. I did opt for high instead of extra high rings and like the way everything lines up. It'll be a bit before I get to shoot it.
That scopes sitting too far back for my liking. I'd pull those rings and use a proper cantilever mount.
I placed it where it felt best for my natural mount. It's definitely not in a nose to the charging handle position. After you posted this, I went and looked where my other AR scope is positioned. Pretty much exactly the same. Then I googled "scoped AR Rifle" and looked at images. Many are set where mine is and many are further forward.
I know a guy that uses a cantilever mount turned backwards, he says it works for him and that’s all that matters. But he fails to see that because of that, he can’t operate a normal charging handle properly.
If you like it, it’s yours, do what you want. I can’t see your pics but if it has a rail on the hand guard, just move the scope forward and play with it in different positions. If you see it might work better, get a cantilever mount. Do not bridge the rail for shooting.
That scopes sitting too far back for my liking. I'd pull those rings and use a proper cantilever mount.
+1 In my experience, his scope position is fine if all you ever do is throw the gun up to your face and shoot standing like it's a shotgun. You can probably get away with it shooting off a bench or pogo sticks, I'm not sure, I don't shoot like that enough to know. Maybe BSA can chime in on that. When I do shoot off a bench I give it lots of head pressure. If you are going to shoot more than a couple shots prone, N-T-CH is mandatory if you don't want a sore neck. The AR really likes to be hugged with a tight sling and lots of head pressure. Love her hard and she'll sing for you.
ETA: There's a reason AMU and everyone else who is a competitive Offhand shooter shoots NTCH. I sure wouldn't be going by pictures of Larry Fugstick.
That scopes sitting too far back for my liking. I'd pull those rings and use a proper cantilever mount.
+1 In my experience, his scope position is fine if all you ever do is throw the gun up to your face and shoot standing like it's a shotgun. You can probably get away with it shooting off a bench or pogo sticks, I'm not sure, I don't shoot like that enough to know. Maybe BSA can chime in on that. When I do shoot off a bench I give it lots of head pressure. If you are going to shoot more than a couple shots prone, N-T-CH is mandatory if you don't want a sore neck. The AR really likes to be hugged with a tight sling and lots of head pressure. Love her hard and she'll sing for you.
ETA: There's a reason AMU and everyone else who is a competitive Offhand shooter shoots NTCH. I sure wouldn't be going by pictures of Larry Fugstick.
Yep.
That can work in the conditions you described, but if he spend a day with that rig proned out on a prairie dog town those rings would be gone the next morning.
If I remember correctly, he's going to be moving to Chattanooga. For sitting in fence rows and tree lines hunting groundhogs, coyotes, or crows I imagine that scope setup will be just fine.
Is the height comfortable? It seems low, if that is a 40MM objective scope the centerline of the scope seems to be about 1" from the top of the rail.
I like my scopes forward, I really crawl up on a gun.
Another item of which I have grown fond is the UBR stocks, mainly because the cheekpiece stays in the same position no matter the length of the stock. It is also extremely solid.
Is the height comfortable? It seems low, if that is a 40MM objective scope the centerline of the scope seems to be about 1" from the top of the rail.
I like my scopes forward, I really crawl up on a gun.
Another item of which I have grown fond is the UBR stocks, mainly because the cheekpiece stays in the same position no matter the length of the stock. It is also extremely solid.
It's a one inch scope on high rings. I like the way that it mounts up. Feels very natural. I am the opposite of you. I tend to stay well back on my scopes rather than crawling them. I feel very uncomfortable with a shortened LOP. I may find that when I go to the bench with it that I want to adjust it.
It's a one inch scope on high rings. I like the way that it mounts up. Feels very natural. I am the opposite of you. I tend to stay well back on my scopes rather than crawling them. I feel very uncomfortable with a shortened LOP. I may find that when I go to the bench with it that I want to adjust it.
Probably going to want it a bit higher and quite a bit further forward for field shooting.
I run a 1/2 inch riser bridging the upper to the handguard and high rings.
You might have a look at where the ocular is in relation to the trigger on your bolt guns as like LOP it all really matters relative to the shooting hand plavement and the trigger.
Paul, You're getting a lot of good advise from some very good AR shooters. If you spend an afternoon shooting from a variety of field positions, you'll quickly see what they are talking about.
Paul, You're getting a lot of good advise from some very good AR shooters. If you spend an afternoon shooting from a variety of field positions, you'll quickly see what they are talking about.
The nice thing is it takes less time to yak about it then move it forward and act as well. One of the beauties is you’re zero won’t likely change either while you experiment with it.
I've had no issues without a riser. But I know how to work without one. I think Paul can too.
That said I"ve put risers on all guns except one so far. And while I don't have the scope much further forward some forward makes the other positions in the field easier.
One of those things that seems nice anyway. Mid rings, short riser and you have options,.
Paul, You're getting a lot of good advise from some very good AR shooters. If you spend an afternoon shooting from a variety of field positions, you'll quickly see what they are talking about.
And that won't be a bad learning experience. I do appreciate all of the advice and information. It has obviously shaped my decision making heavily to this point and will likely continue to do so in the future.
I just realized that I won't be able to use a bipod with my current handguard, unless there's something out there that I am not aware of.
It's a one inch scope on high rings. I like the way that it mounts up. Feels very natural. I am the opposite of you. I tend to stay well back on my scopes rather than crawling them. I feel very uncomfortable with a shortened LOP. I may find that when I go to the bench with it that I want to adjust it.
Probably going to want it a bit higher and quite a bit further forward for field shooting.
I run a 1/2 inch riser bridging the upper to the handguard and high rings.
You might have a look at where the ocular is in relation to the trigger on your bolt guns as like LOP it all really matters relative to the shooting hand plavement and the trigger.
I am not 100% sure I am tracking John. This is representative of the trigger to ocular relationship on my bolt guns, so it seems as if I am consistent.
I am not 100% sure I am tracking John. This is representative of the trigger to ocular relationship on my bolt guns, so it seems as if I am consistent.
Use a tape measure to see where the ocular is relative to the trigger.
From just your pictures the ocular on the AR is a full 4 inches behind the trigger.
The bolt guns look closer to 2 inches.
You might be extending the stock on the AR and adding lenght of pull.
Do you know what is your prefered lenght of pull?
Rifle fit is really as important as shotgun fit and a fun disscussion as ARs can be shot very fast when setup to fit the individual.
I know few get whinny when I post videos but here are good examples of fit across platforms and how it helps.
AR-15/ 4.5-14 VXIII with 13 1/2 inch LOP, sight 2 1/4 inch above comb, and ocular 1.5 inches behind trigger.
Bolt gun/ 4.5-14 VXIII with 13 5/8 inch LOP, sight 2 3/8 inch above comb, and ocular 1.5 inches behind trigger.
Obvioulsy different optics will have different eye relief.
I am not 100% sure I am tracking John. This is representative of the trigger to ocular relationship on my bolt guns, so it seems as if I am consistent.
Use a tape measure to see where the ocular is relative to the trigger.
From just your pictures the ocular on the AR is a full 4 inches behind the trigger.
The bolt guns look closer to 2 inches.
You might be extending the stock on the AR and adding lenght of pull.
Do you know what is your prefered lenght of pull?
Rifle fit is really as important as shotgun fit and a fun disscussion as ARs can be shot very fast when setup to fit the individual.
I know few get whinny when I post videos but here are good examples of fit across platforms and how it helps.
AR-15/ 4.5-14 VXIII with 13 1/2 inch LOP, sight 2 1/4 inch above comb, and ocular 1.5 inches behind trigger.
Bolt gun/ 4.5-14 VXIII with 13 5/8 inch LOP, sight 2 3/8 inch above comb, and ocular 1.5 inches behind trigger.
Obvioulsy different optics will have different eye relief.
That is badass hitting those clays. I did some measuring. I need to move forward with the scope about an inch. I can move the forward ring forward one more slot and the rear one can come forward two more. I went prone with it, and found myself wanting to move it forward for optimal eye relief. The height felt good, but I'll get a better sense for that after I put it to use. My favored LOP is 13 1/2 or more. I have tried compact stocks and loathe them.
That is badass hitting those clays. I did some measuring. I need to move forward with the scope about an inch. I can move the forward ring forward one more slot and the rear one can come forward two more. I went prone with it, and found myself wanting to move it forward for optimal eye relief. The height felt good, but I'll get a better sense for that after I put it to use. My favored LOP is 13 1/2 or more. I have tried compact stocks and loathe them.
Thanks.
While you are measuring you might want to measure sight over comb.
The bolt action in your pictures have the sight (scope center) quite a bit higher over the comb (Cheek of the stock) than the AR setup you posted.
My opinion is that height of sight over the stock comb should be the same for all platforms.
That is badass hitting those clays. I did some measuring. I need to move forward with the scope about an inch. I can move the forward ring forward one more slot and the rear one can come forward two more. I went prone with it, and found myself wanting to move it forward for optimal eye relief. The height felt good, but I'll get a better sense for that after I put it to use. My favored LOP is 13 1/2 or more. I have tried compact stocks and loathe them.
Thanks.
While you are measuring you might want to measure sight over comb.
The bolt action in your pictures have the sight (scope center) quite a bit higher over the comb (Cheek of the stock) than the AR setup you posted.
My opinion is that height of sight over the stock comb should be the same for all platforms.
That is badass hitting those clays. I did some measuring. I need to move forward with the scope about an inch. I can move the forward ring forward one more slot and the rear one can come forward two more. I went prone with it, and found myself wanting to move it forward for optimal eye relief. The height felt good, but I'll get a better sense for that after I put it to use. My favored LOP is 13 1/2 or more. I have tried compact stocks and loathe them.
Thanks.
While you are measuring you might want to measure sight over comb.
The bolt action in your pictures have the sight (scope center) quite a bit higher over the comb (Cheek of the stock) than the AR setup you posted.
My opinion is that height of sight over the stock comb should be the same for all platforms.
I ordered a riser extension rail yesterday!
Good deal. I'm looking forward to your range report. Here's to this rig breaking the Barnard Curse.
I got the riser rail in. I installed it and moved the scope forward a good bit. Great advice folks. Thanks for helping me put this rifle together. I am not sure when I'll have a chance to shoot it, but I'll let you know how it goes when I do.
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They are like bikes that way (got my Spec Ultegra Roubaix out for a spin today, felt awesome)... ![[Linked Image from m.media-amazon.com]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51BWdFvXUtL._AC_SY1000_.jpg)
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