I have been keeping an eye on the ammo and gun shortages, the prices are starting to come down on the rifles, and ammo is becoming more available if you know where to look. I did consider selling my Smith and Wesson AR-15 a month ago for more money than I paid for it new, but with the amount of ammo I had for it this would have taken months to use up, and I felt that I would miss the boat on getting the maximum sale price. Besides, it is a nice rifle and I really don't want to sell!

At first it was a knee jerk reaction to the buying during December and January, but now I think greed is the main driver of the shortage and prices. I have even seen ammo for weird, less popular calibers like the 9 mm Makarov or 9 mm Largo drying up. There are not that many owners of guns chambered for those out there and several people have admitted that they bought it to barter for later.

I hand load for my AR, and right now the brass for some of my .223s are nearing the end of their re-load lives, so will not shoot my AR much until late Spring. I cannot find brass or .223 bullets available online at this time too, I think we will see more ammo and guns available by early Summer. The gun shop I always used to visit had the slowest period in the late Spring, after the turkey hunters came by, the gun shop owner would not re-stock the shelves until later in the year due to low demand.

Politically Obama does not have enough muscle to do anything much on this, the 30 round AR mags might become scarce, but most likely he will get a mandatory background check for the gun shows, nothing that will really affect the average AR owner.

I have refused to pay the high prices on the ammo and magazines out there, from what I have read on the internet, lots of other shooters are refusing to be gouged as well and keeping their wallets closed.

In the meantime, go easy on your ammo, and try some alternatives like reading gun books/magazines, and use pellet/BB guns to get in some trigger time. I think you will be able to buy an AR component/complete rifle of your choosing by July or so. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Where is your evidence that things are getting "over the hump"? I'm not alarmist about this stuff but there is nothing available around here in a lot of instances. AR's are available at gunshows, the last time I attended which was about a month ago. They are double the pre-Sandy Hook prices though. All the vendors seem set on getting these prices and many had signs out that there would be nothing available for two years after these are sold.

22 ammo around here is almost non-existent. If you go to a gunshow you might score a few boxes at huge prices. The stupid average price on a brick now seems to be $80. Walmart's are all out. I was at Bass Pro Shops in Tulsa yesterday and they, like most Walmarts, had plenty of shotgun shells and tactical type shotguns. But they had almost no common ammo and no 22's. No AR's on the shelf. High cap handguns were ALL gone. High cap mags were all gone. You could get high cap handguns at Academy but no extra mags unless Beretta. This is worse than any previous run. Whether it goes longer remains to be seen.

No offense, but your OP conclusions just aren't the case around here in southeast Kansas, southwest Missouri and northeast Oklahoma.

My observations are similar to Ethan's. I stopped at the local Academy here in ultra-liberal Austin, TX last Friday, and there was a line at the customer service counter probably 20 people long. I asked an employee what was going on...it was people waiting for ammo to arrive! They did have some 10mm and 44mag and stuff like that on the shelves, but the black rifles and most handguns were GONE.

Also stopped at the WalMart in Pleasanton (south of San Antonio), and they were similarly stripped of most stuff. The one surprising thing was a S&M M&P 15-22 in the gun rack. Other than that, no 22lr, no 9mm, no 223, no 45, etc. The only 40 I saw was some expensive Hornady Zombie stuff.

I have five complete AR's , two complete lowers and a stripped upper on the way (i hope) that i purchased in the classified . I could have make a big profit selling some of my AR's , but would rather have my AR's than the money which would be gone in a few days . The local Walley World got in a M&P AR 22 a couple of days back and it was sold in a few hours. If it even resembles a AR it doesn't stay on the shelve long.

I see the same as EE, but we're in the same area and even hit the same stores from time to time.

Joplin's Academy gets new ammo on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday mornings I heard the gun bar guy say. Friday morning he said there was a line 20 deep waiting for the doors to open.

22 ammo is non-existent. Vanilla caliber hunting ammo I have seen in multiple stores. Haven't seen but a couple boxes of the common pistol ammo, 9, 40, and 45. What I did see was super high dollar defensive ammo, if it had been cheap FMJ it would have been gone.

Saw one guy trying to sell a common DPMS carbine on facebook yesterday. He 'needed' $1700 for it as that is what he had invested. He was down to $1500 without a nibble over severl days of posting.

I think the prices have peaked, but it may still be a while before stuff is available again. I'm really debating selling my AR, buying a nice shotgun and saving the rest of the money to rebuild when prices come down.

I did not say things were back to "Normal" (pre-school shooting days), just some observations from what I have seen and read. I live in Austin, TX, the shortage effect might be more of where you live, as the Central Texans traditionally keep guns and ammo around anyways.

Last week I saw 16 boxes of .223 and 5.56 FMJ rifle ammo at my local Walmart, the customers there were buying shotgun bird shot and did not buy the rifle ammo. My local hardware store who sells ammo had 2 boxes of .380 in the display case last week. In Mid-Jan. my local Academy store was crowded on a Monday afternoon, but the management was rationing ammo to 3 boxes per person, most people there were buying a box or 2 of cartridges, .22 RF, 9mm or .223. I was there for BB gun supplies and waited in line at the cash register where everyone there was walking out with at least one box of center fire pistol ammo.

Two weeks ago I went to the local Cabelas in Buda and bought a pound of H4895 powder and a box of .38 specials, they even had a large barrel filled with AR-15 30 rd. magazines of some brand I had never heard of, I have 3 AR mags at home, I don't need another. Nobody was interested in them. However, this was early in the morning and the tougher to get ammo was cleaned out from the morning stocking by that time. I saw this coming a year ago and ordered extra ammo, so I have plenty of .22 RF, 9mm, 223, etc.

There is a small hole in the wall gun shop 2 miles from me, I went in there a few weeks ago and they had plenty of handguns, however this shop is a collector specialist outfit, most of the guns are odd/rare collector types, but I did see at least 3 modern handguns, and 2 Romi AK-47's on the wall.

The trick to this is to avoid what the "Sheeple" do, go to the lesser known places, in the middle of a week day. The big retailers are much to obvious. Who would have expected a hardware store to have .380 ammo?

The last I checked Cheaper than dirt had 9 mm in stock, but they were wanting $20.00 a box, I will wait a few months and then I am sure I can get the same ammo for around $15.00 or so a box. Midway USA has "45 Schofield" ammo in stock, because I read alot about guns I know that this cartridge will chamber in a revolver marked for .45 LC. Most people don't know this because they have not taken the time to read the historical articles. I hand load for .45 LC, but I can order today and have something for my Ruger .45.

Your only gamble there is if legislation doesn't get in the way...

Of course some years ago, before all this was common, the above prompted me into stashing a few extra stripped lowers in the safe.. at 50 bucks it seemed like the thing to do...

I could sell and rebuild if I had the lower there.

But I think you are like me.. I suspect you have at least one around at all times.


RE the shortages... the guns are starting to show up again. The ammo is too and alwasy has been, except the buying is still crazy.
And you can't find components since the companies are putting em in ammo still..

I think still a few months before it starts a down hill slide a bit...

And I"m getting down to a few cases of cheap dove loads... means I need to watch for a sale and buy 10 cases again some day...

If you live in or next to a state that is not gun friendly then it clearly isn't even close to over the hump.

However I have talked to a few friends in gun friendly states that gun shops have some product and more trickling in.

Prices on the net are still high. I can sell PMags all day long for $60 to $70 a piece. I think the big change has been that the guy that shoots and keeps a good stock, isn't going to buy now. Where as right after the shooting they were somewhat willing to play the game.

I was talking to a good friend in Juneau AK the other day on the phone, and he said he has never seen anything like this go around. He has lived in AK since 1970 so he pretty much has lived thru and seen all the big gun crisis that have accured.

MontanaCreekHunter...I know what you mean, this time it seems harsher than in 2009, and I keep finding myself getting swept up in the mood of what is going on, then I look at my stock of .22 RF, and I calm down knowing I am ok for most of this year. But still, it is just nuts how hard it is to buy .22 RF now. I am also particular, I mostly like certain brands and loads, so you could put some Remington "Thunder duds" in front of me now at a low price and I would not buy it, but there are people out there that could benefit from this as they probably only have one box of 50 rds in the house.

Next year we will look at a box of .223 or 9 MM luger and think, "wow, you could not get this stuff at one time."

Checked out Academy Sports again yesterday, there was no wait at the counter, seems like the panic is lessening, and they had some handguns, both semi-autos and revolvers as well as rifles/shotguns for sale. No 22 RF ammo though, seems like 22's are not available in the general retail sphere. The only handgun ammo is for the expensive stuff. Will check it in a month or so, glad I have 22s' in stock but will really have to go easy on it for the time being.

same thing around here too.. forget 223 ammo or 22rim fire..I did get 3 boxes of ammo from my local walmart the other day 2-22mags(13bucs) and 1-7.62 x 39 for 5 bucs

3 boxes that's all they would sell to me

plab

Walked through Sportsmans Warehouse in Tucson today. They LITERALLY did not have a single pound of powder, one box of primers, and only 2 boxes of bullets (40 nbt's) for the .224"

Although, I did place a special order directly to Magpul and I receivd the mags in less then a week!

It all depends. I live in an unfriendly state. But I live in an area where it's sparsely populated. Couple gun stores. I can find stuff on the shelves at normal prices that I can't find online anywhere. People around where I live must have either already had what they thought was enough, or just aren't into the types of things that are in high demand now.

Only thing the guy at the gun shop told me was that he keeps getting people wanting to put their guns up for consignment at super high prices. Right next to his new "normal" priced ones. He won't let them, but it goes to show that people in the area are aware of the "panic" buying. It just isn't happening where I live.

But I pass a Bass Pro on my way to work. Stopped in a couple weeks ago and the place was picked clean. Location location location I guess.

If you look on GB, most of the "high" priced ARs -with bids- are new buyers with feedback ratings less than 5 reviews.

My local shops are pricing at normal market, with very limited price creep. One shop has about 15-20 consignment ARs on the wall, and none are selling. The store guns last less than a day, frequently only minutes and hours. They are getting some ammo in in .223, 9mm, .40SW, and 45 ACP, but it doesn't last long as they use social media to advertise.

The funny thing to watch is the "offended" idiot that buys at the counter at normal prices, then wants to "flip" the rifle for an inflated price on the consignment wall, and gets POed when the store tells him "no". Seen this happen twice in the last few of weeks.

I finally received a magazine order from Ruger this past week, but had a 7 week wait. Still waiting on a RGUNS order, will see how that turns out...

Cabelas had large and small rifle primers on-line, smalls are sold out now, ordered some large yesterday.

No offense but, you live in an area that is sparsely populated but you pass BPS on the way to work? Do you have a long commute? The closest BPS here is about 90 miles away. I live in the country, but I don't consider it sparsely populated.

Tulsa gunshow last weekend. Just about any black gun you wanted. AR's were plentiful. Prices only slightly backed off from what they were at the peak though. Cheapest I saw was a Rock River lower and "Model 1"? upper with prolly a 20" barrel and long round handguards. Lots of ammo. About anything you wanted, but all high-dollar. Quite a lot of .22 ammo. All very high. The browsers were very sparse and not buying. This weekend they held the Bassmaster's Classic and Grand Lake though and had the weigh-in's in downtown Tulsa, so that probably drew a lot of people away.

The gun shows are filled with gougers while the stores are getting stock in and some are trying to flip em, creating the "problem". Good thing is people are aware and not paying high prices. It won't be long and the gougers will be dumping them to get their money back.

I went to a gun show this weekend with a gun and scope fairly priced at $1800 (Rem LTR in 223 with Leupold MK4 3.5-10 scope in Seekins base and rings) lots of people wanting to trade a $600 ARand $12 Pmags at inflated prices. Funny how they twist and turn when you know the prices and are well stocked.

I noticed bullets are coming back in stock, just ordered 1000 77 gr Noslers in stock from Midway. Things are looking up.

I saw a lot of packs of ammo that I normally only see at Walmart. I'm guessing that these guys have been raiding Walmart when the trucks come in. The prices were double what Walmart sells for. As long as these guys have the money to just buy up everything at Walmart and then either re-sell or just set on it, prices are gonna stay high.

But as you saw, people have quit buying at outrageous prices and when the market isn't there prices will come down.

No offense taken. I have a 3 1/2 hour commute. I have a "fireman's" type schedule. I work a few days in a row and then I'm home several days. And it rotates. Allows me to work in a higher paying area but live up above it all.

My Dad had a long commute. That's pretty rough. Good thing about the schedule.

in my part of va. 22 ammo s running 50.00 a brick at gunshows,223/556 is at 500-650 a 1000. not seeing hardly anything staying on store shelves.i can buy p-mags all day long at gunshows for 35.00

I just got back from Maine. Stopped at Kittery Trading Post, Cabela's, and L.L. Bean. Cabela's had the most ammo of the three but no 9mm or .223. Cabela's had .40 and .45acp, but nobody else did. L.L. Bean had .22lr not a lot but they had I would say atleast 15 boxes (not bricks).

As for guns the non-black guns were well stocked in all the stores. As for black guns Cabela's had a few and Kittery had a few. Nothing that made me want to pull out my wallet.

P-Mags none anywhere. If your looking for FN FiveseveN mags Kittery had 2 twenty round pistol mags and a bunch of the fifty round P90 mags.

Someone else said it best - people who use the term 'gougers' are people who feel entitled to someone else's property for a price less than that at which the other person is willing to sell.

In a free market there is no such thing as 'gouging'.

I don't feel entitled to anything i don't earn, however a gouger weather it be, General Motors, Exxon Mobile or a guy trying to sell an AR for twice the sugested retail is a GOUGER and that mentality is one reason this whole country is in the shape it's in. [bleep] you all - i got mine, is the American way. I understand the whole free market thing, blah, blah, blah and agree gougeing for something that isn't a needed thing (AR) isn't possible unless the buyer is willing, still the greed among some (sportsmen ?) sucks.

BS!

I'm not entitled to anything, I earn everything I get and was smart enough to stock up on AR's, magazines and components for ammo, heck I even have several thousand 22 shells.

But you won't find me sitting at a gun show trying to sell a $600 AR for $2000 or a brick of 22 shells for $100. When someone buys a gun at retail price and then tries to resale that gun at a profit, they are not only a gouger but are also engaging in gun trafficking. You do need a license to buy guns to resale for profit.

Now if you think it's a free market, why don't the manufacturers raise the suggested list prices? This latest scare has been magnified by the maggots hanging out at Walmart and the like, buying up the stock that comes in only to mark it up at the next gun show and make a buck. Makes me sick.

There certainly is such a thing as gouging and I hope they get busted.

Don't be so naive.

If a buyer thinks the price is too high they have a choice to walk away. A transaction voluntarily entered into by two willing parties is not gouging.

Nothing cures high prices like high prices.

Good for you.


If you're happy selling your guns for $600 when the market price is considerably higher, please feel free to do so.

Illegally selling guns without a proper license is something entirely different than so-called 'gouging'.



I'm not the one that is naive. It's called a 'free market economy' for a reason. Manufacturers, for various good reasons, are hesitant to dramatically raise prices due to temporary shortages. The market price is whatever a buyer and seller, of their own free will, decide it is as witnessed by a completed transaction. Market price is often lower than 'suggested retail' but other times is its much, much higher, as is currently the case for many rifles and types of ammo. The 'market clearing' price is that price at which supply equals demand. You will always find product selling above and below that price.

High prices help ensure adequate supply. I was at a gun show today and while I only bought a couple boxes of primers, there was no shortage of ammo or ARs. Had they been selling for pre-Sandy Hook prices the supply would have been gone long ago.

Keep in mind that while ***YOU*** may have an adequate supply of ARs and ammo, many have ***NONE*** and hence place a much higher value on them than you do.

The only 'gouging' that occurs is when the government forces sellers to sell below market price. This ensures low supply and hurts the consumer more than the higher supplies higher prices ensure.

+1

'Suggested retail' and 'market price' are two very, very different things. Market price may be and often is well below suggested retail or it may be significantly higher during times of shortage, panic buying or other events.

It seems pretty clear to me that you ***DO*** feel entitled to products at a price that is acceptable to ***YOU***, regardless of how highly the seller values it.

If, as you claimed, "Good thing is people are aware and not paying high prices. It won't be long and the gougers will be dumping them to get their money back." then wouldn't people buying at the 'dumping' prices be just as guilty of 'gouging' the sellers as you claim the sellers are of gouging the buyers now?

The only 'gouging' that occurs is when the government forces sellers to sell below market price. This ensures low supply and hurts the consumer more than the higher supplies higher prices ensure.

You can try to make it all warm and fuzzy anyway you want. When a limp dick who never owned a gun in his life, with a pocket full of your (free market economy) money buys all the guns and ammo of certain kinds he can get just to resell at bloated prices it's GOUGING. Ya i think it's starting to slow down, do to only the really desperate buying, and yes high prices will kill high prices, thank goodness. On another note there is NO free market economy in this country, not when the government subsidizes the big businesses that they chose at the rate they do : wake the [bleep] up. If the gougers get caught with stuff they can't get their money out of it's what they deserve, and if someone gets a good buy do to their dumping stuff oh well, i guess they will just have to pull up their big boy pants and take their ass whoopin.

Not trying to make it �warm and fuzzy�. Just trying to explain the facts to someone who gets upset when a seller doesn�t price their goods the way you want them to. Price gouging, by definition, is a judgment call made by someone who feels a price isn�t fair or reasonable.

If you have any Exxon stock you purchased 10 years ago, when it was around $34 a share, would you please sell it to me at the �reasonable and fair� price (as determined by me, the buyer), for $37.40, a 10% profit? PLEASE? (The current market value of such stock is considerably higher, at $89 and change, but hey, since we�re all people of good will here, you wouldn�t �gouge� me on the price, would you? I mean, that just wouldn�t be fair, would it?)

How long a person has owned a product, whether or not it is the first they�ve owned or if they have owned many, and what their acquisition cost was is irrelevant � the market price for that product is independent of those facts and the value of the product to the owner may be higher or lower than the market price.

You�re getting your panties in a bunch because people price their goods the way they want to and it isn�t in line with the prices you think are reasonable and fair. If you don�t like the price at which a seller is willing to part with their goods, don�t buy. Whining about it and complaining about �gouging� just displays your victim mindset.

Comparing it to stock is not apples to apples.

But if you want, let's try it this way. I have stock in XOM, right now it's at $87 something a share but because you don't want to look for it, I'll let you have it for $187. Per share.

That's what's going on with the gun market right now. People are finding the guns still at suggested retail, buying them and then trying to resale them at a huge profit. These people are gougers.

I sold an AR a few weeks after SH for $1600. But it had a Krieger barrel, a SOPMOD stock, Troy Alpha rail and a few other goodies. I got market value and made money on something i already had for sale but I didn't go buy another and try to resale it.

See the difference?

I'll add you can't justify buying up everything and marking it up to keep the scare going on. When gas stations do this after a severe storm, it's called price gouging, its illegal and the owners are punished. How is this any different?

Comparing it to stock is comparing one product and price to another product and price. Just an example and perfectly valid. A stock�s market value is just something some people can relate to more easily than the more nebulous market price of things like firearms, accessories and ammo.

It would be pretty foolish of me to buy XOM (Exxon) at $187 when the market price an hour ago was $89.40. Thank you for your offer, but I decline. (Besides, I already have all the XOM I want.)

That said, if you want to sell me some XOM, ARs, or PMAGs or whatever at prices far below market price, let�s talk.

You're still missing market value and inflated scare tactics.

When Walmart goes up on their prices then that is market value. When people buy up all the inventory at retail price and then try to turn it for a profit, that's gouging.

I can't make it any simpler.

Many economists quite correctly think anti-gouging laws are counterproductive. After the hurricanes in Florida some years back there was little incentive to rush in pumps form out of state because Florida�s anti-gouging laws depressed prices and potential profits while creating potential criminal liability. Why bother taking the effort if you can make more money doing something else?

High prices help ensure higher profits and thus higher supply. Anti-gouging laws ensure low prices, low profits and low supply.

I was at a gun show this last weekend and there was no shortage of ARs or ammo but nothing for prices I personally was willing to pay. I did buy a couple 1000-count boxes of primers at prices 38% higher than they were a couple months ago, but in today�s environment I considered myself lucky to find them at all.

In the case of high prices for gasoline, the high prices help ensure that the people that value it most (nearly empty tank) can get some while those who value it much less (tank at least full enough for immediate needs) will forego the immediate purchase and look for gas later at a lower price, usually somewhere else.

When Wal-Mart�s prices go up, those are Wal-mart�s new prices. They ***MAY*** reflect current market prices or not.


In effect what you are saying is that anything over Wal-Mart�s current prices is �gouging� or that if another vendor is selling for less, Wal-Mart is �gouging�. Nothing could be more disconnected from economic reality.

�Price gouging� is nothing more than a value judgment made by those who value a product or service less than the seller. The fact is that in a free market no transaction occurs unless both buyer and seller can come to a common value assessment of the product being sold. By definition, �gouging� cannot occur.

You may not like the price of a product and can grumble all you like, but I�m willing to bet you won�t part with your money unless you feel you are getting an adequate return for it. The proof is in the pudding � right now you�re doing a lot of grumbling but apparently not much buying.

It sure is a nice day today.

Sure is!

IMHO the only way you can have gouging is if someone is willing to pay the price. At that point who's fault is it really?

If I were ever to sell a gun, and I think I"ve done that twice in my life... and I had one to sell, value 500 bucks, but you came up and offered me 1500 bucks.... what do you do?

If you already had the gun then sell it.

My problem is the guys who are buying up everything they can get at Walmart and other stores, then reselling them at gun shows at marked up prices. If it weren't for these types who are breaking the law by selling without a license and lying on the 4473 we wouldn't have the shortages we have now.

I mean really, $100 for a brick of 22 shells?

Maybe I'm wrong but either way I don't care, I read sign and stocked up. Besides I found an M&P Shield today in 9mm. See it is a nice day.

Except in the case of food or water, why would anyone pay the highly-inflated gouging price anyway?

I would assume that it is because it is something that they want, and are willing to pay for it at that level of "want."

As an aside, if anyone is illegally buying ammo/guns, then sure they should stop doing it and report to the authorities.

1. No one I know of is condoning lawbreakers, but that is a completely separate issue from so-called 'gouging'.

2. You don't have to fill out a 4473 to sell a brick of .22's.

3. Buying low and selling high is good business. That said, and while I've seen bricks priced at $100, I haven't seen anyone buying at that price. The local Gander Mountain has been offering 525-packs of Rem Golden .22s at normal prices while supplies last, with limits on what one person can buy.

TRW -

Maybe you're not aware of it, but many non-firearms-related businesses buy product they intend to resell at Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, Costco and other retail vendors every day. It is a very common practice. Why should ammo be any different?

Oh,I get it. You want the government to intervene in the free market...

You know I'm trying to be nice about all of this but it's getting difficult.

No kidding a 4473 is not needed for ammo, just guns like the stack of brand new AR's sitting on traders tables. Traders are what I call non licensed dealers in case you don't know. These people are breaking the law and are gougers. And show me someone who buys anything from Walmart (that's not a close out) to sell in their store and I'll show you a fool who doesn't know what wholesale is.

Now if anyone thinks this practice is okay then it says a lot about how far this country has fallen.

first chance I get I'm buying 5,000 rounds of 22lr!

TWR
The problem is it says EXACTALLY how far this country has fallen, as is proven by simply looking at the phony refinery shut downs, and SPECULATORS (gougers) on wall street manipulating gas and oil prices. It's hard to beleive that this government put Madoff in jail but lets wall street go on.

1. I'll repeat myself - "No one I know of is condoning lawbreakers, but that is a completely separate issue from so-called 'gouging'."

2. By definition, 'gouging' does not occur in a free market. It's simply a term used by people who feel entitled to other people's property at a price lower than the owner wants to sell. If you want my XOM stock you're welcome to it - at about 50% over current market to cover my capital gains and other taxes, replacement costs and the hassle factor. 'Gouge' pricing? No, I don't really want to sell it but could reluctantly be enticed to do so.

3. Nothing I said was meant to suggest Wal-Mart was a primary source of product and nothing I said precluded close-out or other special pricing, either. Most small business people I've known are pretty savvy with their money and go where the bargains are - and Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, Costco and other outlets can often provide a competitive price with immediately available product where their wholesale suppliers may not have any of the product or may be days away from delivery. Cripes, I've seen restaurants send someone to the local grocer when they run low on an important item.

Do I think it's OK for people to buy at Wal-Mart or other places and try to sell the product at higher prices? Absolutely. I don't care where they get it, what they pay for it or how they price it. None of that affects how I value the product one iota. Moreover, unless someone puts a gun to my head, I'm free to buy or not.

'Gouging' is a term invented by whiners.

Thats funny.

Have a nice day.

Right on! I hope the maggots buy up so much they cannot make their car or mortgage. My sarcastic remarks regarding trading my AR,s for a 2010 Porche Boxter were just that Sarcasm. I think things are a little better I saw a Troy rifle yesterday with a fluted chrome lined barrel pretty nice set up for $2000. I recon it was a $1600 rifle in November but am not sure.

Gouging is a term invented by hurricane or earth quake victims paying $20.00 a bottle for water so their 9 month old baby does not die of dehydration. Making an honest profit is far removed from greed and larceny.

In reference to what the OP was about, here is a post I put in a link about which rifle someone should buy, and he had listed a few choices. This was my suggestion:



I just followed that url and it showed the auction ended at $1550. I'd call that an improvement!

Enjoy the day!

Then maybe soon places like Cabelas, Widners, Surplus Arms and others will stop humping the consumer.

You make the assumption that a profit was made at $20. That may or may not be the case. Maybe that bottle has changed hands 10 times since the erstwhile emergency started and the seller is taking pity and selling at a significant loss?

Moreover, what parent would value the life of their baby less than the $20 it would take to get what is apparently the only water available?

It's not hard to imagine scenarios in which temporarily saving the baby's life eventually costs the baby's life and that of one or more others (maybe the mother and her twin 4 year olds, all of whom could have made it to safety if they shared the water instead of giving it to the baby but the mother died from heat exhaustion from carrying the baby without the needed water and the children died of thirst and hunger after getting lost without their now dead mother). Who is to say that giving the last water to the baby is its best use? I mean, if we're pulling on heartstrings...

Moreover, a market price of $20 helps ensure people will be working hard to bring in more water, which in turn can save many more lives. Prices will drop as supply meets demand. Selling water at the normal price does nothing to encourage increased supply.

I think we are getting there. Just came back from my LGS and they had about 20 or so new AR's in stock average price 1299.00. Handguns supply is on the low side for them. They got a shipment of xds in today. They have ammo. I really think people are slowing down buying.

Humping the consumer? Bear in mind that they are having difficulty getting product to sell and have to raise prices to keep cash flow up (think meet payroll, pay operating expenses, pay taxes and still make a profit). That's hard or impossible to do when volume goes down if prices stay the same.

On the other hand, the higher prices ensure they have product for those the value it most.

Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy. Any transactions that take place are free-will exchanges between the vendors and willing volunteers.

[Edited to add...]

Willing volunteers, by the way, who have probably shopped around, who are free to spend their money elsewhere should they so chose and, for reasons of their own, decided not to do so.

I see no gouging, I see business at work, that is all. Does it suck, yes, but it is the way the market seems to roll.....

Brent

Brent, I could not agree more.

Went to the gun show in Colorado Springs yesterday. Saw bricks of .22 for $150, lots of ARs at twice gunbroker prices of a couple weeks ago (don't know what gunbroker's current selling prices are).

Was looking for a Springfield XD 9mm subcompact, didn't see any. Also looking for a handgun for my wife, who has lots of trouble with slides due to two shoulder replacements. Wanted to show her a Ruger LCR in .38 or .357 Mag (which I would load with .38s for her) but didn't see any of those, either. Ended up going down the road to Sportsman's Warehouse and buying a .38 LCR with the laser.

Wen online this morning and bout 300 Starline .38 Special cases for $14/100, and 200 Speer 110g Gold Dot bullets (don't recall the price but pretty normal). With primers, powder and dies on hand, at least now I'll be able to load for the .38 Special.

I have been seeing some improvement in the Austin area, used Glock police trade ins at Cabelas the other day, some reloading bullets for my .308. Saw two AR-15's at a small local shop, also they had some 9X19, .223 and 9 MM Makarov ammo. The 9 X 19 and .223 was too high in price, I refuse to pay $25.00 for a box of 9 MM when it was $14.99 6 months ago.

The shortage of .22 rim fire continues, no where at all. All 3 gunshops had AR-15 magazines in stock, but at $30.00-40.00 apiece. At least it looks like it is getting better, now if I can only get a brick of .22 rimfire at pre-panic prices?!

I got an email a few weeks ago from midsouth shooters that my back ordered 77gr SMK's were in stock and would ship. Today I realized they hadn't made it, I called and the kind lady said they were on back order again and she didnt know why they didnt ship when they had em. Good thing I ordered 1000 Nosler 77's and got them on the shelf.

Picked up an M&P Shield in 9mm last week. Paid $6.00 over list when he added shipping. He had a half a dozen AR's priced $1300 or so. A small plastic tub with a few boxes of 223 ammo. 10/22's galore for $365. Stopped by a few more shops looking for some TAC powder with no luck. Have a big jug back ordered guess I'll just wait on it.

Things are trickling in but it still seems like the net is the best bet for components.

Paid $17 each for two boxes of .22WMR last night at Big 5. It was all they had, no .22LR, .25ACP, .380, .38, 9mm, .45ACP, .223, etc.

They did have a few boxes of .32 and some rifle ammo.

The ammo shelves at Sportsman's in Colorado Springs this weekend were pretty empty. Almost all the plastic buckets they keep brass in were turned upside down. They had some .280 Rem brass I considered buying but decided against. They also had some .44-40 brass or some such and maybe one or two other oddball types.

22mag jumped to $14 a box here and up until last week was plentiful, now it's getting thin. Plenty of 17hmr, 40, 45 and rifle shells but very little 22lr, no 9mm and the few boxes of 223 that I saw.

This week I'm on the road 2 days so I'll see how the 4 shops I usually stop at are doing.

Scheels in Fargo had thousands upon thousands of 17HMR yesterday at good prices.

17 hmr and shotgun shells (target & bird loads) are all you can find around here. Don't have a 17 but maybe I should get one.

And, I'm beginning to wonder if I need to start "hording" shotgun shells. Sure would be a kick in the ass if they start to get scarce.

You haven't started?

Bought 10 boxes of 00 buck long ago and have had lots of shotshells for doves to geese for years now.

The biggest thing people forget to hoard is water. When the electricity goes off water will be hard to come by for many.

Another weekend, another gun show. This time the Tanner in Denver.

Prices are still high. Saw some Remnington 525-count boxes of .22LR for $85 and up.

Bought three boxes of .38 Special. Hornady 20-count 110g FTX Critical Defense was $20 (I bought 2), Winchester 50-count 125g SP was $30.

Haven't received the brass or bullets I bought online and always like to chrony a couple factory loads in a new gun anyway. Plan to load 110g for my wife.

Also bought 1 50-count box of Federal's 85g .327 Fed soft point loads. Wife uses these in her SP101 and, although I have dies, haven't started to reload for this one yet.

Picked up two more new metal 30-round ..223/5.56 mags for 20 each. C-Products Defense. Not sure if the ones I have on order will get here before Colorado's new ban on sales/transfers goes into effect.

Once again I found myself wishing prices were lower but happy to find what I needed at prices that, given the current situation, were better than expected.

Yep no end in sight yet here in southern Missouri

Yeah, when I can walk into the local WalMart or Academy and buy a box of Winchester white box 9mm, then I'll believe we're over the hump. Same goes for bolt carrier groups...things are rare as hen's teeth.

A couple stores here have been getting Colt ARs in the past couple of weeks. $1100 and change out the door. I laugh at the Bushmaster's and DPMS rifles there was selling for much higher than that.

You really haven't a clue how markets work. Ever own a business? Ever run a business? Our marketplace works on the profit we make on our goods and services. If we don't profit, we end up out of business. Overprice your wares and you are most likely out of business. I have had the pleasure of being my own boss for 46 years, all in the same retail establishment. I have learned that there is a "market price" for everything and you make money when you BUY, not when you sell. If you don't buy right, you are dead in the water. By the way. I have bought a lot of stuff from Walmart,Sam's Club, fleet farm, online, pop from the local grocery because it is half the price from coke or pepsi, and many other items from local businesses, and all to resell at my place of business. That is how the market works. I also sell guns. When the latest craze hit, guess what I did. I bought a bunch of Mini 14's, SKS's, and Ar's from a local dealer that did not use the internet and paid him full list price. I then proceeded to sell them on Gunbroker and double my money on them. I also have an FFL and can't get any more guns to sell as my wholesalers have no product. So you are telling me that selling guns to willing buyers, in an auction format is price gouging? I call it good business and this is how I make my living. By buying products for one price and selling them for more. Capitalism is what it is called and if you don't choose to buy, then don't. I could care less.

my local wmt is still short on some ammo (223. 22. and a few others), but they get .223 rifles almost every week, and still sell them at the "old" price. they had a dpms and a colt a few days ago. however, they keep them in the back, out of view. all one need do is ask the clerk who can bring them up on the computer. while things appear to be getting better, we ain't home yet.

Holcomb30347, as a matter of fact I do own my own business and been running one for near 30 years now. I compete in the auto parts business, ever compete with Chinese junk at bargain prices with lifetime warranties? Don't tell me I don't know what market value is or how to buy right. I deal with it everyday but what you asses don't take into account is repeat customers who value an honest deal and excellent service. Screw all you pricks thinking that you can survive by inflating a market with scare tactics and keeping the availability bought up so you can double your money.

Anyone who thinks its okay to buy the complete Walmart shipment of say 22 shells at regular retail prices only to resale at insane prices cause that is capitalism... GFY

I'm proud that my value is based on great service at a fair price rather than screwing my customers.

As a matter of fact I do know the auto parts business having owned a service station for all of those 46 years, I also sell guns and am a Realtor to boot. I do all these things so I can have some of the nicer things in life. You think I stayed in business all those years because I "screwed people" in a small town? The point of the matter is, I sell things to willing customers. They know up front how much I will sell my inventory for. Whether it be a house, a gun, or repairing their vehicle. I do this and everyone is happy to buy from me. I had people driving several hours to pick up firearms at my place because they WANTED to. I did not force them to buy these things. They also did not have to have these things. They wanted these firearms. It is no different than people going to gun shows. They willingly go to them and buy things because they want them. The only scare tactics here are the ones being introduced by our government. I have been the transfer FFL at several gun auctions this past couple months. The prices people will pay now for firearms is nuts. Is the auctioneer supposed to stand up there and say, this Ruger 10/22 sells for $200, someone please give me $150 because it's used and go on to the next item, or does he sell it to the highest bidder? CAPITALISM is what it is called and is how those big box stores got to be where they are. We do not need price controls. Socialists all over the world have proven time and again that they don't work.

Went to gun show in Greenville SC this weekend. Light crowd on Sunday.

Georgia Arms had 500 round cases of .223 for $285. I picked up a couple of 100 round boxes of Federal AE 223 55gr for $65 each.

Plenty of black rifles for under $1,000.

But the 22LR is still going for $60+ per brick and bulk 9mm was nonexistent, although there was a scattering of 20/25 round boxes of premium 9mm for $20-$30 per box.

Magpul G3 PMags were not selling at $30....one shop has a pile of em with $30 price and I don't think they sold many, if any.

Been checking the gun shops here in Austin, TX too. 30 round AR mags around $30.00, 9 MM at $24.00 a box, one shop had .22 rimfire, but it was $23.00 a box of 50. Other center fire rifle cartridges are more available, even have seen a few .308 as well.

.223 loaded cartridges, .22 RF, all primers, and .223 bullets for reloading are extremely rare or none at all available. I don't see the huge panicky crowds anymore, was at a place on Saturday, only one guy was milling around, quiet, clerk asked if I needed help. Plenty of black rifles under $1,000 at some locations. Bare of them at others. Lots of semi-automatic handguns. Nice to see things getting better.

Yes I believe As well that this shilly sit is about to stop,
All you gotta do is look on gunbroker and see things are starting to go for lower prices.
Heck I check out a few classifieds boards and at them and even here Ar and components are dropping like a rock.
Things that a month ago would have been scarfed up as soon as they hit the classifieds are now sitting there waiting for someone to say I,ll take it.
Barring unforeseen circumstances I believe with the next month or even less this is going to be a buyers market .

what shortage?

I was there too until I noticed I was down to 200 .308 Lapua Scenars the other day. Now I'm feeling the pinch too.

It's like planning for a camping trip, you plan and plan but sooner or later fait is gonna bite you in the arse and you will have forgotten something you really needed .

Just got to stay on top of things...scored 2000 Berger VLDs for my 6.5 2 weeks ago

Powder valley had 155s in stock