Gearing up for the revolution and I need optics. Any suggestions are appreciated. Price is an issue.

Thanks,

Jordan

How much of an issue? Give us a ballpark.

For a revolution I'd say fixed irons and mags.

+1 on the Irons and mags.

Aimpoint PRO.

Trijicon ACOG.

George

Under $1000.00

There are so darn many ACOG models, I can't figure out which one I ought to get (assuming I can hide the purchase from my wife).

Jordan

aimpoint T1 with a LaRue mount.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7687290#Post7687290

I have an Aimpoint ML3 with Aimpoint mount I'd let go for $525 delivered.

Leupold CQ/T..

For $1K I'd REALLY consider a Leupold VX6 Firedot, or a 1.5-5, or Trijicon 1-4.

ACOG if I just had to have optics for combat types....

For me its a better deal to have irons and a scope on a good mount for the longer stuff. ACOG can suffice but I'd just as soon have a better higher power precision optics in case I have to shoot say over 500 yards.

Anything under irons do just fine, unless its only heads for targets.

I'm really liking the VX6 1-6 with firedot reticle.
QD mount, I like LaRue's LT104 and Troy flip up irons.

On 1x the firedot acts like an Aimpoint but you can crank it up to 6x to cover a little distance. Kind of a general purpose setup.

Another gun I have has Troy flip up irons, a LaRue mounted QD Aimpoint H1 and I have a spare 3.5-10 scope in a LaRue QD mount. Flip levers and use what you need, all are sighted in and return to zero.

Lots of ways to skin that cat.

Combat optic? Definitely would take a micro dot over a short dot scope, unless it's an 18"-20" gun.

Aimpoint T1 in a Larue mount with the lens cover that mounts around the body; forget the brand name.

I replaced the aimpoint I have for sale with the Trijicon 1-4

Let me clarify that I still think the money is better spent on irons and ammo, but if you buy glass this is a good way to go.

[, quote=dubya]Leupold CQ/T.. [/quote]

Let me add to this...

The CQ/T for an AR and intermediate range, I have one for my 243 AR10 I'm building, a Leupold Mark AR 1.5-5 for my 6.8 AR, an Accupoint 5-20 for my 5.56 yote sniper, and a new Leupold Prismatic Tactical for my AK (really nice 1x optic!). I'm a big fan of Leupold & Trijicon, you really can't beat a Leupold for value on the dollar and Trijicon is a Trijicon. I even run a Trijicon RMR RX-07 on my Saiga 12 and love it.
There are a lot of choices other than them two brands in your price range that are great though I've tried Vortex and wasn't too impressed (SPARC), and Bushnell which some models are a good value, I really like the TRS-25 for a cheap red dot.
Just take your time and check out as many as you can locally and find which one works for YOU. Then read reviews and make a choice. My $.02

Why would anyone choose that Prismatic over a T1/H1?

I've got the Burris 1-4 MTAC. I like it so far. Has illuminated reticle which is fairly bright on highest setting, but reticle is still visible in daylight when not turned on. Performs function of both a red dot and a scope. Not too much $. Another I would consider would be the SWFA 1-6 HD.

John

you said combat optic, so I guess you mean self defense. Most of which will be at shorter ranges. Self defense is usually not a shot at 100 meters plus, and then I want a 2-12 or such.

The ACOGs are fine for medium range I guess, but why would some models feature the tiny red dot on top of them if they were good at close range?

How many of us with black rifles really take some time to understand the ballistics of the standard 55 grain load? I see guys in a gun range that I frequent zeroing their guns 2 inches high at 25 yards, somehow confused I guess, but I don't say anything anymore, maybe one day natural selection will sort it all out. There are just so many people that rushed out to buy a gun and don't have the time or inclination to understand it. They don't seem to know how their iron sights work let alone an expensive optic and then they don't shoot much at all I guess.

In a moment of abject stupidity I purchased a 1-4 NF scope and I don't recommend it, its tough but I am used to hunting scopes. I had wanted a "do all" device and it's just not that useful to me, its a heavy jack of all trades, and master of none. The new VX-6 on the other hand gets good reviews everywhere, and from what I hear they did the IR correctly. I would get this if I wanted a scope of that power.

The Eotech in principle is the better optic but it is killed by its short battery life and then you read about more problems with it. I had one for a day, took it back...wait, hold on... just a second, don't start shooting yet, let me turn my sight on....

If I was buying an optic for a defense rifle it would be an aimpoint, it covers use in the dark with a light, use out to 200 meters plus, its on all the time, its used by the military.

Somehow we are all conditioned to believe that bigger, better, more complicated, and especially multi use is the thing to buy and then all the bells and whistles give us something to talk about and post pictures of, on these forums!!!

While it won't give you bragging rights, the KISS principle will keep you from assuming room temperature on a premature basis.

1 round thru the chest using an iron sighted rifle seems to be able to sort things out.

The husband quickly secured an AR15, which was inside the apartment, and leveled it at the suspect, telling him to leave.

When the suspect started menacingly approaching the husband and ignored several commands to stop, he fired one shot into the chest of the intruder.

The residents immediately called 911 and are cooperating with police.

The suspect was pronounced dead at an area hospital.

Whatever you chose for optics, don�t overlook the basics � iron sights. The irons will serve well long after batteries have died, electronics have quit and glass has broken.

Several weeks ago I was at the range for the first time with my new RRA 5.56. While I have an illuminated reticle scope that I can switch between that rifle and my .300 Blackout, the scope remained home and I was using just the irons � a UTC flip-up and peep combo. After zeroing at 100 yards I headed out to the longer ranges where I put a small (6� high) triangular piece of concrete on the 500 yard berm, painted it fluorescent orange with ground marking paint and, to make it more visible, painted a circle around it, making the painted area about 10� in diameter. Then it was back to the benches.

The first shot was disappointing � I couldn�t see where it landed, let alone whether or not it was even in the same county. Another gent then offered to spot for me. Another sighter shot gave me a clue as to how to adjust for elevation and wind. Out of the next 5 shots, and very much to my surprise, I managed 2 hits on the concrete.

While I�m not suggesting irons are the best combat sights, they have long been and continue to be very useful, reliable and capable. I won�t have a defensive weapon that doesn�t have them.

I used to shoot all the time with irons. 600 yards I'd have a majority of 22 shots inside a 6 inch circle at that range....

300 yards the groups were around 3 inches when I was tuned up....

Have killed deer to the far side of 500 with irons and the AR

I personally dislike the ACOG. It has really short eye-relief and there is nothing I dislike more than that little junker recoiling off my glasses or helmet brim.

I have had much better experiences with their 1-4x24mm Accupoint and use them on several rifles.

As for a red dot I really like EOTech.

I don't care for all that the ACOG is, but if I wanted durability in glass, it would get my nod asap.

RE recoil off helmet/glasses, its something I'm so used to in competition with irons and a hooded rear sight, I don't even realize it happens anymore these days.

Aimpoint rules for a combat optic.

This post is so good it bears repeating. Aimpoints rule. Buy David's ML3. If you want magnification, get a magnifier. I have an Aimpoint magnifier in Larue fold over mount, but I got it free. A friend has the same setup with a Burris magnifier and he has beat the ever-livin' schit out of his work gun, no issues. Burris is now selling a knock-off of that Larue mount. If you are going to run a magnifier, get the Aimpoint with a 2moa dot. I'd get the model that uses a AA battery, I don't recall the model #.

electronics. EMP. Availability of batteries in EOTWAWKI...

I will repeat because I believe it is that important:

Iron sights must be present on a defensive weapon and one must be able to shoot with them.

I like optics, I want an Aimpoint micro someday, I currently have an EOtech on top because it was free to me.

I have a variable optic for coyote calling but its only for hunting. It sits in a PEPR (cost was an issue), so I'll have to confirm zero when I put it back on--big deal, I'm hunting.

When I spent some time in the sand, the rifles we had had Aimpoints.

I have switched into a different unit now and they have a lot more money...I just qualified with an ACOG on my issued M4 last weekend, its easier to shoot with on a range but I hate the short eye relief and I don't think I'd like it at CQB ranges needing to do quick target aquisition shooting. I'd prefer an Aimpoint 2 moa all things considered, most of all due to the likely scenario I'd need to fight/defend myself. With my role in the Army I don't have any business taking long range shots (I was a line medic, now a medical student/future Army surgeon). I do take my skills to fight seriously, regardless if it's my primary role, I plan to be capable of instilling confidence in my unit's personnel that I can go down range with them as far as they need to to provide them the treatment they need without being a liability and maybe an extra asset given SHTF. And in the organization I'm in and plan to spend my career in, that is a real possibility.

For the same reasons I'd prefer to defend my home and family with the same Aimpoint.

I can't shoot irons like Rost but I can shoot irons at reasonable ranges very confidently and my rifle has them and always will.

My ordering in importance, JMO:

Good irons, with night-sight inserts.

Good glass with very low and medium range power in a QDT mount, possible lit reticle, not a must. Test each one you are thinking of at your local shops and shows, most dealers have at least model one on display for finger touching.

Red dot of choice, EOTech, Aimpoint, ACOG Tri-power, with a bucket of batteries. Aimpoints tend to be darker/harder to look through in dim light because of the long tube in low light scenarios. EOTech have their faults, but I find them easier to use.

I'll use the red dot until the batteries, EMP, etc expire, then the scope until the tube fogs up, then the iron sights...

Back-up iron sights are a must. It's a lost art these days... since we have all these amazing sights and optics. Troy, Magpul, etc.

That being said...

CQB to close range
1. Aimpoint T1 or H1
2. Eotech 553 or any other standard EoTech
3. Aimpoint CompM4

Close to medium range
1. Any of the above with a 3 power magnifier
2. Trijicon ACOG 3-4 power version
3. Leupold CQT 1-4
4. Burris TAC 30 1-4 or their MTAC version

For the OP, if you have any astigmatism, look through a variety of the optics before you buy. I wanted an EoTech for a while, looked through it, and got nothing but fuzzy pixels.

The house gun has a Lasermax forward grip on it, and folding irons with night sights. I think it's unlikely I'd need anything else out to 100 yards.

I do like the Loopy Prismatic, which will work with or without batteries. I may consider an ACOG or Aimpoint, too. I have a VX-R on one of the AR-10's. The AK has a 1-4 Mark AR on it. Everything else has some sort of higher ppower scope on it. Not likely to shoot a .308 inside the house, I hope

For this amount of money you could get a 1.1X4 a pre-owned S&B. That is a hell of a close quarters combat scope

How about a Leupold 2.5x LW in an LT mount w BUIS? Coulda raised Hell with that setup @ Lexington, Concord AND King's Mountain.

.300 WM prolly be better past 200 yards on tyrants & sich....

Leopold CQ Combat or anything with Trijicon written on the side of it.

22 shot 6" group @ 600 yards with irons......

He said the majority of the 22 shots were inside a 6" circle.

He said the majority of the 22 shots were inside a 6" circle. Not a .22

And I'd not doubt him.

Those shooters with pronounced astigmatism should find the Prismatic more user friendly.

One thing to remember is that the 4x ACOG actually has a wider field of view than their lower powered models. I got the original TA01 since I like the more precise aiming point of standard crosshairs.
Does anyone make a mount for it that extends it back so that a BUIS fits under it? The standard Trijicon mount doesn't really allow room because of the short eye relief.

You've obviously never seen what a Master or High Master High Power Rifle shooter is capable of. I was a lowly Expert in a former life and shot over 190 with several X's at 600yds. The 10 ring in 12inches and the X is six inches. Rost can do it.

I don't doubt him one bit. I was just clearing up what he was saying.

I doubt most everthing I read.....I'm from Missouri

I would be willing to bet on Rost being able to do as stated.

Gotcha

I would not doubt him either ...... he's well capable. I shot some High Power a few years back and watched some amazing riflemen working out to 600 yards with irons.

My father was a DI & Rifle Instructor in the USMC, shot Expert with a rifle - M14. Witnessed some pretty amazing iron sights work by him that I'll never forget.

Fear the Man that only has one rifle, for he knows how to use it.

Most on here don't like 'em, but I dearly love my EOTech 556 NV Compatible sights.

Gunner

Eotechs work great but they are much more fragile than an Aimpoint. An Aimpoint's battery life leave the Eothing in the dust also. I hate the way you have to push buttons to scroll it on. An Aimpoint you can juat slap the knob with a thumb and its on.

I'm liking a Virtex Viper PST 1-4

Eotech's are fine, I've owned numerous eo's. Aimpoints are good to. I had one fail that was that was 12 years old and aimpoint would not fix it. I'm currently using a leupold VXR and I really like it. Also used a burris tac30 and it worked well to. Here is a few pics of some of these.
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Rob,

I have an Eotech XPS 2.2 with an ARMS 40L BUIS on my Colt 6920. It's a nice setup that is very fast for target acquisition.

Klink

gunchamp,
If you don't mind, what kind of scope mounts are you using on on the scoped rifles?

Aimpoint H-1. If you are running nods, then get the T-1. Small, robust, light weight, compact, it is a winner.

Close range: Aimpoint on QD mount
Mid Range: AGOG on QD mount
Longer Range: Quality variable power scope in a QD mount

All of the above with good quality folding irons.

This is how I have mine set up

I have a cardboard toilet paper tube I can put crosshairs in and you can duct tape on...You can have it for $50 shipped by next day air

The burris which is the BCM ar-15 is also a burris QD mount. The S&W 10 on the swimming pool is the american defense recon QD mount. Its a much nicer mount, very well built. A little spendy, but worth it in my opinion.

the LaRue LT-104 is my choice, off and back and it holds zero.

But I need more than one. Whats the cost per unit for say 10 of them.....

Also whats the cost of the towel tube vs the toilet tube?

This wasn't to brag at all. I was not the best in the whole US by far. But it was to show, Irons can do stuff I never expected them to be capable of, in 88 I was a doubter... then probably along about 91 or so I shot a 10 shot rapid fire irons group at 100 prone in a sling that was appx 1.1 inches. And I was starting to learn.
Managed to test ammo with irons and was able to shoot groups around 5/8 inch as I recall. No fancy dial caliper for me yet...

And as noted, it wasn't 22 in 6 inches, but many of them were. I have a 3 inch spotter somewhere, round disc, that they put in your shot holes to mark location each time you shoot. A spindle in the middle and the disc on it. Plunk it in the new hole, paste the old one shut.... that one had 17 holes in it IIRC. That doensn't mean the 17 shot group was 3 inches though. But it was at 600 yards.

I do have a 565 yard ranged with rangefinder shot on a doe with the AR and irons with 4 witnesses.

Anyway don't doubt irons, but you have to get used to them. And I suspect my almost 50 year old eyes wouldn't do as well as they used to at 40....
BTW FWIW High Master rating with the service rifle means irons only, and that 97% of all shots on average, are inside the 10 ring. I am high master service rifle in both XC(200-600) and at LR (600-1000) The LR one isn't truly representative though, as at the time it included 600 yard prone slow matches and that was pretty easy to come by. Doing it ONLY at 800-1000 would be a LOT tougher, though I can clean 800 and 900, 1000 always gave me elevation issues.

The price goes down exponentially as the units ordered goes up. Paper towle tubes are 30% more as they are not as readily available.

Like I have said elsewhere:

Dammit, Rost I want a shooting lesson!

Can't afford to give em..... took me WAY too many years and mucho barrels and hours of practicing to get to where I was.

Others come by it faster... me it took 10 years to get to what I call decent.

But I can say, focus front sight, make sure you have good solid contrast on the target, and then dry fire until the gun just doesn't move as the hammer falls basically.... thats hours and hours of work...

And forget that you have this mindset that you aren't supposed to be able to shoot a 6 inch group with a sight that covers 36 or more inches at 600..... just do it.

BTW in reality there is a LOT of reading out there on the mental aspect of doing this, and its REALLY applicable. You can NOT do what you think you can NOT do.