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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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I used to shoot all the time with irons. 600 yards I'd have a majority of 22 shots inside a 6 inch circle at that range....
300 yards the groups were around 3 inches when I was tuned up....
Have killed deer to the far side of 500 with irons and the AR
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Regular
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I personally dislike the ACOG. It has really short eye-relief and there is nothing I dislike more than that little junker recoiling off my glasses or helmet brim.
I have had much better experiences with their 1-4x24mm Accupoint and use them on several rifles.
As for a red dot I really like EOTech.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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I don't care for all that the ACOG is, but if I wanted durability in glass, it would get my nod asap.
RE recoil off helmet/glasses, its something I'm so used to in competition with irons and a hooded rear sight, I don't even realize it happens anymore these days.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Aimpoint rules for a combat optic.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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you said combat optic, so I guess you mean self defense. Most of which will be at shorter ranges. Self defense is usually not a shot at 100 meters plus, and then I want a 2-12 or such.
The ACOGs are fine for medium range I guess, but why would some models feature the tiny red dot on top of them if they were good at close range?
How many of us with black rifles really take some time to understand the ballistics of the standard 55 grain load? I see guys in a gun range that I frequent zeroing their guns 2 inches high at 25 yards, somehow confused I guess, but I don't say anything anymore, maybe one day natural selection will sort it all out. There are just so many people that rushed out to buy a gun and don't have the time or inclination to understand it. They don't seem to know how their iron sights work let alone an expensive optic and then they don't shoot much at all I guess.
In a moment of abject stupidity I purchased a 1-4 NF scope and I don't recommend it, its tough but I am used to hunting scopes. I had wanted a "do all" device and it's just not that useful to me, its a heavy jack of all trades, and master of none. The new VX-6 on the other hand gets good reviews everywhere, and from what I hear they did the IR correctly. I would get this if I wanted a scope of that power.
The Eotech in principle is the better optic but it is killed by its short battery life and then you read about more problems with it. I had one for a day, took it back...wait, hold on... just a second, don't start shooting yet, let me turn my sight on....
If I was buying an optic for a defense rifle it would be an aimpoint, it covers use in the dark with a light, use out to 200 meters plus, its on all the time, its used by the military.
Somehow we are all conditioned to believe that bigger, better, more complicated, and especially multi use is the thing to buy and then all the bells and whistles give us something to talk about and post pictures of, on these forums!!!
While it won't give you bragging rights, the KISS principle will keep you from assuming room temperature on a premature basis.
1 round thru the chest using an iron sighted rifle seems to be able to sort things out.
The husband quickly secured an AR15, which was inside the apartment, and leveled it at the suspect, telling him to leave.
When the suspect started menacingly approaching the husband and ignored several commands to stop, he fired one shot into the chest of the intruder.
The residents immediately called 911 and are cooperating with police.
The suspect was pronounced dead at an area hospital.
This post is so good it bears repeating. Aimpoints rule. Buy David's ML3. If you want magnification, get a magnifier. I have an Aimpoint magnifier in Larue fold over mount, but I got it free. A friend has the same setup with a Burris magnifier and he has beat the ever-livin' schit out of his work gun, no issues. Burris is now selling a knock-off of that Larue mount. If you are going to run a magnifier, get the Aimpoint with a 2moa dot. I'd get the model that uses a AA battery, I don't recall the model #.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
electronics. EMP. Availability of batteries in EOTWAWKI...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Campfire Member
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I will repeat because I believe it is that important:
Iron sights must be present on a defensive weapon and one must be able to shoot with them.
I like optics, I want an Aimpoint micro someday, I currently have an EOtech on top because it was free to me.
I have a variable optic for coyote calling but its only for hunting. It sits in a PEPR (cost was an issue), so I'll have to confirm zero when I put it back on--big deal, I'm hunting.
When I spent some time in the sand, the rifles we had had Aimpoints.
I have switched into a different unit now and they have a lot more money...I just qualified with an ACOG on my issued M4 last weekend, its easier to shoot with on a range but I hate the short eye relief and I don't think I'd like it at CQB ranges needing to do quick target aquisition shooting. I'd prefer an Aimpoint 2 moa all things considered, most of all due to the likely scenario I'd need to fight/defend myself. With my role in the Army I don't have any business taking long range shots (I was a line medic, now a medical student/future Army surgeon). I do take my skills to fight seriously, regardless if it's my primary role, I plan to be capable of instilling confidence in my unit's personnel that I can go down range with them as far as they need to to provide them the treatment they need without being a liability and maybe an extra asset given SHTF. And in the organization I'm in and plan to spend my career in, that is a real possibility.
For the same reasons I'd prefer to defend my home and family with the same Aimpoint.
I can't shoot irons like Rost but I can shoot irons at reasonable ranges very confidently and my rifle has them and always will.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it." Thomas Paine
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,606
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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electronics. EMP. Availability of batteries in EOTWAWKI... My ordering in importance, JMO: Good irons, with night-sight inserts. Good glass with very low and medium range power in a QDT mount, possible lit reticle, not a must. Test each one you are thinking of at your local shops and shows, most dealers have at least model one on display for finger touching. Red dot of choice, EOTech, Aimpoint, ACOG Tri-power, with a bucket of batteries. Aimpoints tend to be darker/harder to look through in dim light because of the long tube in low light scenarios. EOTech have their faults, but I find them easier to use. I'll use the red dot until the batteries, EMP, etc expire, then the scope until the tube fogs up, then the iron sights...
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Back-up iron sights are a must. It's a lost art these days... since we have all these amazing sights and optics. Troy, Magpul, etc.
That being said...
CQB to close range
1. Aimpoint T1 or H1
2. Eotech 553 or any other standard EoTech
3. Aimpoint CompM4
Close to medium range
1. Any of the above with a 3 power magnifier
2. Trijicon ACOG 3-4 power version
3. Leupold CQT 1-4
4. Burris TAC 30 1-4 or their MTAC version
Drink and be merry for soldiers die for your freedoms.
Semper Fidelis!
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 22,274 |
For the OP, if you have any astigmatism, look through a variety of the optics before you buy. I wanted an EoTech for a while, looked through it, and got nothing but fuzzy pixels. The house gun has a Lasermax forward grip on it, and folding irons with night sights. I think it's unlikely I'd need anything else out to 100 yards. I do like the Loopy Prismatic, which will work with or without batteries. I may consider an ACOG or Aimpoint, too. I have a VX-R on one of the AR-10's. The AK has a 1-4 Mark AR on it. Everything else has some sort of higher ppower scope on it. Not likely to shoot a .308 inside the house, I hope 
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,969 Likes: 5 |
For this amount of money you could get a 1.1X4 a pre-owned S&B. That is a hell of a close quarters combat scope
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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How about a Leupold 2.5x LW in an LT mount w BUIS? Coulda raised Hell with that setup @ Lexington, Concord AND King's Mountain.
.300 WM prolly be better past 200 yards on tyrants & sich....
�When in doubt, I whip it out.� Uncle Ted ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/elrata/imagejpg1_zps585f4bbf.jpg)
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Posts: 33 |
Leopold CQ Combat or anything with Trijicon written on the side of it.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I used to shoot all the time with irons. 600 yards I'd have a majority of 22 shots inside a 6 inch circle at that range....
300 yards the groups were around 3 inches when I was tuned up....
Have killed deer to the far side of 500 with irons and the AR 22 shot 6" group @ 600 yards with irons......
Maker of the Frankenstud Sling Keeper
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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He said the majority of the 22 shots were inside a 6" circle.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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He said the majority of the 22 shots were inside a 6" circle. Not a .22
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 910
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 910 |
Why would anyone choose that Prismatic over a T1/H1? Those shooters with pronounced astigmatism should find the Prismatic more user friendly.
Last edited by Captain; 04/28/13.
NRA Benefactor Member
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizenry still gets to vote!"
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Campfire Tracker
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One thing to remember is that the 4x ACOG actually has a wider field of view than their lower powered models. I got the original TA01 since I like the more precise aiming point of standard crosshairs.
Does anyone make a mount for it that extends it back so that a BUIS fits under it? The standard Trijicon mount doesn't really allow room because of the short eye relief.
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Campfire Tracker
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I used to shoot all the time with irons. 600 yards I'd have a majority of 22 shots inside a 6 inch circle at that range....
300 yards the groups were around 3 inches when I was tuned up....
Have killed deer to the far side of 500 with irons and the AR 22 shot 6" group @ 600 yards with irons...... You've obviously never seen what a Master or High Master High Power Rifle shooter is capable of. I was a lowly Expert in a former life and shot over 190 with several X's at 600yds. The 10 ring in 12inches and the X is six inches. Rost can do it.
Last edited by UPhiker; 04/28/13.
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