I ordered 2 of the DPMS Gen IIs for R&D and really think this might be the better mousetrap in the large frame AR game.

With a medium contoured 20 inch barrel,new MI tube, riser, rings and a 4.5-14 it weighs 9 3/4 lbs.

I only have 100rnds through it but discounting a few short stroke while getting the gas port sized right it has functioned perfectly.

Shoots pretty good to with factory Hor Match 168gr AMAX.





I never could like the full sized AR-10s but this gun handles really well and fits the .308 sized rounds much better. I have some 6.5 blanks rifled and plan on a 6.5 Creedmoor with a fluted 22 inch barrel.

The .338 Federal with a light 16 or 18 inch barrel would also be an interesting thumper.

Great news John! Thanks for your review. Was it the original DPMS barrel for that group?

Nice! I hope they produce them in 6.5 creedmor too!

same lousy triggers?

cheap pistol grips?

HUNTING ammo accuracy?

retail Price?

The trigger on the g2 I examined was very good.

Did they change the diameter of the firing pin hole? This paired with their lack of handguard options (not a MI fan) and short gas system length's is what I dont like.

Innovative? Yes.
A game changer? Not sure about that.

tell me about the firing pin hole!

Lots of DPMS and DPMS pattern bolts have a larger firing pin hole that allows the primer to flow creating excessive cratering. This is keeping some from loading to the rifles full potential. Even some factory loads may seem hot.

Remington makes the firing pin hole oversize on purpose, and DPMS is owned by the same people as Remington.

Google it.

I don't think anyone is arguing that.

They come with a barrel extension held on with setscrews?

that is correct, I spoke to DPMS and they claimed 3 years of tests.

I want a .243.

My little brother in-law just took possession of one of these. He got the "hunter" model that has an A2 stock and carbon fiber smooth tube forend. I got to fondle it but have not seen it shoot. He has reported to me that he's "hitting what [he's] aiming at," and I know that includes an 18" steel plate at 650 yds. Take that for what its worth. I did like the ergos as they felt familiar to me and it was waaay lighter than any AR-10 I've handled in the past.

If I learn more about how its reliability and accuracy are shaping up for him I'll report. I don't see him often as he lives waaaay out in the desert isolated and I am sadly stuck in the city.

I will say that at least this new platform has me thinking about the possibility of an AR in .308 again. Time and his beta testing will help though. One thing is this guy is not easy on gear. He hunts and shoots a lot of days of the year and goes hard at it. Plus, his environment is about as tough as any. He just doesn't know how to treat things nicely or with any TLC so if there is a chink in the armor he will expose it.

I always thought if they had originally made the AR type gun in 250 savage it would have been about perfect!

John, now that you've rebarrelled one, what do you think of the barrel extension setup?

Still using a 0.085 firing pin hole. Factory ammo has a nice primer crater. I don't think it will be an issue but I may have to bush it if it causes problems with handloads.

There will be lots of handguard options simply because of how easy it will be to modify existing AR-15 handguard for the Gen II. The barrel nut in the Gen II is the same outside diameter as the barrel nut in the AR-15. In fact the Gen II MI tube will install on the AR-15 MI barrel nut.

This gun really is going to be a game changer because of how well it handles. The average guy looking at large frame ARs in the LGS is going to choose the Gen II most of the time. Other manufactures are going to have to come out with a version or they will lose market share.

DPMS large frame ARs have always been pretty decent and they do know how to build them. The price point on the Gen II is also very attractive.

I have been using a lot of the newer Midwest Industries handguards for lighter weight guns and have really been impressed with the uptick in quality.



No. The barrel extension threads on to the barrel in the conventional manner but is smaller in diameter than the standard AR-10/SR-25/DPMS pattern guns.

There is a steel feed ramp insert in the upper that is held in with roll pins. The feed ramp is supported and there really does not appear to be any way it could come lose. The idea if using steel for the feed ramp instead of just machining the ramps into the aluminum of the upper looks to be more durable under hard use.




Eric,

I would say the design is really solid. By reducing the diameter of the barrel extension and the bolt carrier group DPMS has brought the feeding stack of cartridges 0.040 closer to the bore centerline.

This reduces the feed angle and this thing really does feed slick.

Add the dual ejectors and the elastomer extractor spring and I think the design is inherently more reliable than the old style.

A sub 10lbs .243 Gen II would make one heck of a coyote rifle.

I just have a hard time believing the big boys like KAC and LMT are going to jump on the DPMS bus and redesign their .308's to save a few ounces. I could be wrong though, won't be the first time.

Actually the weight reduction is 1.25 lbs.

Comparing both DPMS hunter models it isn't. Looks like average weight savings is about 6-8oz when configured the same way.

is the mass of the bolt carrier significantly decreased? I will have to go try the buffer springs in the one at my gunshop if its not gone already. I like the 16 inch SS barreled model but I would change out the cheese grater forearm.

The MP10 has gone bang every single time, shoots into an 1 to 11/2 with factory barrel, is 10 pounds or just over with scope, 20 round Pmag and 20 rounds, LT104 mount and sling.

I kind of would like to know how the factory DPMS SS barrels shoot before I dive into the DPMS water.

As far as cratered primers, not sure I care, I hand load but never go over book max.

The SASS barrels are tack-drivers, those are not factory DPMS barrels. The SS barrel on the Recon I don't know.

I'm getting the Recon and will share my thoughts after I received it and fired some ammo through it.

The hunter models are not a direct comparison due to different barrel profiles.

The only real comparison is with the 24" bull barrel model.

The weight loss on the SASS is well over 2 lbs but again there are other ways that the Gen II was lightened on that model.

I shot another 100rnds through my Gen II last night and it functioned perfectly with LC M80. The 149gr FMJ chronoed 2800fps in the 20 inch barrel. Doing a 20 rnd mag dump with the 7.62 will really find holes in your recoil management.

One pretty serious design problem with the Gen II is the short shell defector. If you shoot this thing off your left side you will get hit in the face with brass. It is possible that upping the gas would change the ejection pattern on my gun but that does not change the fact that the shell defector is totally inadequate for its intended purpose.

I wonder if they tried to design the defector to minimize damage to the brass but forgot the the deflectors primary purpose of making the rifle safe for use from the left side.

That is the model that I am interested in.

john, can you list all the things they have done to save weight. It would sure be nice if the ar 10's had a standardized setup. I also very much prefer the midwest industries rails I like the gen 2 ss model the best though. The heavy weight for the ar 10's are what got to build a grendel instead. The grendel has turned out to get an oddball and right now its gathering dust in this extreme component shortage. I just can't shoot the thing. it needs the right bullets and the right power for it to do its thing right now I can't get either. a lighter 308 would be better.

Yep, I get to thinking about a 6.8 every once in a while as well...but slap my head and say...but you could have had a .308. I like the recon G2 but the cheese grater would have to go at once.

John,

Do you know the actual weight savings on the new design? Meaning, the weight saved by the new receivers and bolt vs. old style with same barrel profile, handguard, stock, etc...?

I would buy a 6mm HAGAR if the brass ever became readily available but Hornady can't keep up with the stuff they already make so it'll likely never happen.

You talking about the rail?

yes sir, the rail, like the stainless barrel and other equipment but have no use for a cheese grater fore end.

Did you get the recon? Pictures? How did it go????

hopefully this thread improves dpms reputation so it's not embarrassing to own one anymore. has anyone figured out if it will kill anything yet?

I checked out the dpms hunter gen 2 the other day. YES I think its a game changer. I actually want one. It feels very ar 15 like. even though the free float tube is plain on the hunter model. for a 308 semi I don't need all the doohickeys on the rail. maybe a midwest gen 2 ss rail would be better at a slight weight penalty.

I also thought the trigger was halfway decent too. it was a 2 stage affair. it would be really cool being able to get some custom barrels for it. I would also like to see some wildcats developed for it. a 6mm creedmore would be cool as well as others.

Been missing you over on THF, good to see you're still thinning the population.

many here are considering letting DPMS back into the circle of trust...

that's more than a game changer. that would redefine the entire sport!

you're not missing much. haven't put a smack down on a large number in quite a while. just a few small groups now and then.

The firing pin hole referred to is cratered/ champfered or oversize , like in firing pin rattles. Would it not be easier in either case to match the firing pin to the hole or get a bolt that meets your expectations??? Bushing the bolt seems like a lot of unnecessary execise.

I have read a lot on the DPMS Gen II, everyone refers to primer cratering, I have not read a post regards a pierced primer as of yet. If you pierce a primer and it flows into the firing pin hole, I guess it could jam the pin resulting in an inoperable rifle. Looks like from most posts of targets the gun is on average a 1.5 MOA rifle, (some posted targets with .3 inch diameter bullet holes claim better but the eye does not lie). The real attraction is that it handles like a 5.56 AR. Some have gone so far as to claim it obsoletes the 5.56 SPR and will marginalize the 6.8 and 6.5 grendal in a gas gun.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_793/products_id/90761/DPMS+RFLRG2REC+GII+Recon+20%2B1+308WIN7.62NATO+16%22

Recon G2, Buds Gun Shop...$1389.00 Cash.

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http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_793/products_id/77868/DPMS+RFLRREC+Recon+AR-10+LR-308+SA+308+Win+16%22+19%2B1+Magpul+M

This is the old style for.....$1180.00

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Nice to know that the guns are available.

Y'all seeing any better prices???

Some of the posted groups from the Recon model have me scratching my head regards accuracy.

adding a little AR clarity

you eat more pork chops than anyone else I have ever spoke with. One thing about DPMS, they answer the phone and a human speaks to you....

Yarkk...

I just assumed it would be OK in that department. Time will tell.

I am looking at the recon model as well. I have never owned an AR10 before because they have always felt a bit cumbersome. Post up reviews and groups when you early adopters can.

Mr. Burns,

Are you still doing R&D with these two rifles? Round count by now? Any more commentary you might like to pass along?

Mr burns replaced the barrels IIRC.

I missed that.

Jimmy, you sent yours back and got your money back... right?

What about reliable magazines? Does anyone shooting the DPMS GII have any issues with certain brands of magazines, particularly with the Lite Hunter in .243?

And also regarding the LH in .243, does the rifle cycle factory ammo and published handloads reliably? Or will a guy have to upgrade to an adjustable block?

And lastly, for casual shooting and mid-range hunting, are you happy with the DPMS trigger?

I'm starting up a serious craving for a DPMS Lite Hunter in .243. I never thought I'd see the day that a big AR factory rifle would come in at 8 lbs. Now, that's a game changer!

I take it by your silence that no one has any experience with the new DPMS in .243. Can this be true?