PSA has a sale on uppers going on, plus free shipping.
Couldn't resist, so I bought a 16", stainless, 556 chamber, 1:7 twist, for 189.99 !
So I have 8's and 9's, and experiment with bullet weights to find the best shooting.
Best chamber/twist combo so far for me, is a 223/1:8, followed by 556/1:9. The worst is turning out to be a wylde/1:8.

So, since I've not owned a 7 twist before, of you that do, what bullet weight, with this barrel length, have you found shoot the most accurate ?

I'd guess barrel and chamber quality has more to do with your results than twist rate. You would need lots of barrels from the same manufacturer to test the effects of twist rates effect on accuracy. Even then, I'm not sure you could tell a difference with an AR-15.

The last 1/7 I played with was a Spikes 16 inch M-4 copy. The barrel hated the 62 grain 855 green tip, but was very decent with the 62 grain Fusion.

I would second that each barrel is different, each reloader is different in skills, knowledge, and equipment - each factor can affect the final result.

Rule of Thumb for me, YMMV: I don't go below 55 grains in a 1/7.

Okay.
I'm hoping to streamline 60 gr. V max's in everything I own.
So far, so good.

1-7 noveske likes the 55 grain Vmax.

my 1-7" Noveskes shoot 60 gr NBTs MOA-ish with ACOG and 1.5-5 MK4, but they shoot pretty much everything MOA-ish...

After you get a 1 in 7" it's a slippery slope to 77 gr. bullets.

I have a box of Nosler's !

I bought one at the first of the year and ended up changing out the handguard and it seems to have some potential with handloads. I'm shooting some Hornady 55gr soft points with H335 and getting 1 1/4" groups. I only tried a couple different loads so I think I can get the groups to shrink a little with some more load development. Here is what it looks like now.

wylde is the chamber type... nothing to do with twist. ANd chambers can vary a bit in accuracy.

but its all in the barrel quality and concentric chambering with a good reamer.

7 twist may not be quite it for some folks, as the up close accuracy is not quite as good as a bit slower twist, but they are all we shot for a long time because once you hit 300 yards and out, they always shot better than the slower twists.

68/69 and up will be fine. Down to 50s has always been fine.

Cool.
Like I said before about the 60 gr v max ammo.
Hope this one shoot it well, like the others, so I can streamline ammo to some degree.
I couldn't pass up the upper for that little of money.
Since I have lowers rat holed, I said, what the heck.

I think this one is gonna be just extra stuff laying around.

I know about the chamber names, and the wylde 1:8, hasn't impressed me for what I've run thru it.

full upper for 190?

only issue I've seeen full 7s do is thin skinned fast bullets sometimes come apart on cut rifled barrels at times. Varies from bullet to bullet, typically due to jacket thickness, IE lack of.

If I were after 60 vmax period no way would I be looking for a full 7 on purpose.

No bcg or ch.
Price sold it, with stainless barrel.
I'm going to try 69's and 77's in it.
My other 9's and 8's, are shooting the 60's very well, so I was hoping this one will too. Just to cut down on ammo for this one, ammo for that one, etc.
If one needs a particular load to shoot spectacularly, so be it.

Bought this one to run irons, or maybe just a red dot, as a general purpose truck gun, beater.

I have plenty of 855, for gp purposes!

Don't discount 60 vmax until you shoot em, in the heat of summer, they either will or won't. Only way to know is shoot. Amax jackets are thicker, vmax thinner, thast the only reason I'd worry a bit, but let the results tell you.

My Rainier Arms (14.5") and the wifes Troy Industries (16") are 1:7 and shoot the 60 Vmax as their GP load and both hover around 1" groups at 100yds.

Well,
It'll be here Monday, so after pt, I'll run out in the hills to my spot, and see what I can do with it, with irons.

You know that it don't count now unless it's 10 shot groups under MOA...........the new standard, ya know.

MM

He said "MOAish" which I guess is larger than MOA or else he would have said "MOA all day long" like the rest.

10 shot groups are intimidating, its easy to not like them.

Frankly, I don't think they prove anything........In any given shooting situation in real life, it's really only the first 1-3 shots that might matter, depending on the situation.

They do have some significance for competitive shooters but that's it.

There are 8 shots (of a 9 shot string) in the ragged hole in the target on the right near the top marked as .750"......I jerked one out, lack of concentration probably.

Yes, 10 shots require a good rifle & load & a lot of concentration.

MM

For some, 10 shot groups proove some shooters aren't as good as they like to think. Others see them as a chance to better themselves for their rifle and ammo. Again, they are easy to dislike but they tell you much more about your rifle, ammo, and shooting fundamentals than 3 or 5 shot groups.

This is not me saying that all groups should be 10 shots. I rarely shoot 10 shot groups, often it's a few 5 shot groups. However, if I want to truly know the accuracy potential of my rifle and load 10 shots will tell me more than 5.

As far as the rifle & load goes, it tells you absolutely nothing more than 10-1 shot groups, either overlayed or shot on the same target; other than maybe what a hot barrel does to you if you shoot it that fast.

As far as the shooter goes, fatigue & concentration do have an effect with 10 over 5 or even 3 shots.

But if you feel strongly & different, then rock on; not everyone wears the same colored glasses.

MM

You are right, 10 shot groups and 10, one shot groups both equal 10 rounds in paper. With some guns, your results will be better the less you move and get into and out of position. Either way shooter error comes into play at some point. For some it's 5, some it's 20.

If you want to play in the challenge thread you need to overcome your fear though.

I can't remember the last time a whitetail gave me 10 shots at it. I also can't remember one ever giving me a warm up shot.

I don't have any fear at all, just don't have a gun that's ready just yet.

No sense in shooting a gun that can't do 5 fairly close to MOA.

I'll get to it over time.

MM

That hasn't stopped some of us, haha.

So I see.

MM

I have gone so far as to shoot one shot each day for ten days for a ten shot group. and yes, I shoot at least a few ten shot groups when working with a new rifle, but I don't obsess over it. I've noticed many who prize little bitty groups wind up with rifles designed to shoot little bitty groups (and I have some of those too) but my Noveskes are an example giving up micro-groups for utility. 14.5" chrome lined pencil barrels, ALG ACT triggers, ACOG and 1.5-5 optics, ammo from the 'bulk bucket' of once fired LC brass loaded with 60 gr. NBTs, ect... so 1" to 1.25 five shot groups from both are a gift and "MOA-ish" as far as I'm concerned, but I'd not sweat 1.75" from these guns if that was the number.

if you jerk one out in 10, then it means you can jerk one out in 3 and you can jerk one out in one, IE you need more trigger time. Which is NEVER a bad thing.

But sometimes folks brains just can't accept the fact that they are not as good as they think they are.

a 10 shot group also tells you something about the combo of you and the gun, 2 10 shot groups tells you more about the combo of you and the gun. I just sold my Colt 6720 with carbine gas and got another DD with midlength gas. The little colt would shoot but at 7 shots or so the recoil impulse began to be noticeable to me. I will find out this weekend if the new DD barrels are as good as the old ones.

Jimmy, you really need to be gun tests as much as you sell and buy. LOL.

Recoil can certainly effect group size, even in something with basically no recoil at all like the 223 round. It still jumps and has to jump the same way every time...

My Daniel Mk12 is a 1 in 7". So far it has been so-so, but I need to test it with some other loads. My 1 in 8" Armalite is a good deal better (and heavier).

I know one thing that gets me, buy a 7 twist and then want to shoot 50-60 grain bullets.

Not that I care all that much but if I were never shooting more than 60, I"d have to research some, but I may well be at a 12 twist...

I am down to 1, 1-7 Colt pencil barrel and 2, 1-7 Noveske SS barrels. They all shot 50 gr NBT's just as good as the 77 gr SMK's up close. It ain't until distance get's out there that the 77's start winning the accuracy war.

So my stand is you can buy a 1-12 twist for lights and be stuck with lights or buy a 1-7 and shoot whatever you can poke in the magazine.

But as stated, MOA-ish will kill all that needs to be killed with a 223 and most like myself are only MOA-ish shooters.

yikes! I hope this one shoots at least as good as the colt barrel.

I only have 3 as well, its just a different 3 all the time.

technically I guess I have 4 but the 4th is the SR762. I kind of want to swap that one and try a 6.8 SPC.

I'd try one of the 6mm's or 6.5's before a 6.8. They will fly better.

I don't think I could replace my .308 though. Got to have at least one large frame AR. I have considered a 6mm Creedmoor barrel for it though.

I TOTALLY agree on that count, of course I'd never limit myself to 60 vmax, but whenever I find some I sure what to play a bit evenutally.

Still to many 75 bthps loaded up laying around plus all the match ammo we never shot, to burn up though. And never seen the 75bthps not kill just fine.

Have yet to get cozy with a 10.. everytime I pick someones up, I just want my 308 bolt gun instead... just me though.

I am not so sure about the Grendal, the bolt seems to be the weak link and some of the pressures people are running in that think have me scratching my head.

This is copied from AR Performance web page and gives me pause on the Grendal.

http://www.ar15performance.com/6_5_grendel

According to Alexander Arms 50,000psi is the maximum pressure the Grendel should be loaded to. LRR the super mod agrees and posts it on almost every forum. Accurate Arms data shows 29.5gr of 2520 produces 51,833psi or 1833psi over the limit. That load will push a 123gr bullet to 2471fps out of a 20" barrel. If we remove 1/2gr to get it just below the maximum allowed pressure it drops the max possible vellocity of the Grendel to apx 2421fps. Never exceed the max pressure due to the hoop stress of the larger diameter catridge in stainless barrels and additional thrust on the bolt.

According to a firearms engineer from NC in recent posts on arfcom he says the max bolt thrust should be the same as the 5.56 to retain the same safety to strength ratio. Figuring the max case internal diameter of the 5.56 at .373-.0125 for each side at the thinnest area we get .348". The area is .096x58000 psi =5568lbs thrust. Area of the Grendel inside case is .136Si. 5568lbs thrust/.136=40914psi to keep the bolt thrust the same as a 5.56. ...40914 PSI

according to real world shooters years ago, the bolt was not an issue.

I've run a don't know how many bolts through a bit over 60kpsi in 223 over the years and never had a single issue. Likely close to a million rounds if I"d have to guess.

The safety freaks sometimes just get a bit anal.

I question any load that a half grain of powder makes almost 250 fps difference... thats a WILD difference for 5/10 of a grain.

Granted when I did the testing of the 6.5 it was not quite the grendel yet, but more a 6.5 ppc basically and may have had throat changes etc.. since then that create issues if folks don't know how to deal with them.

6.8 despite its poor ballistics seems more popular.

popular means that the majority of folks out there that really don't have that much of a clue, were sold on it by something.

doesn't mean its better.

But not that big a deal, we play with what we want. Main point was don't put so much faith in what you read at times, vs what the actual failure rate in the real world is. Its not that high. I've seen 2 bolts loose a lug in 223. I"ve never seen any other loose a lug, but to be fair I've seen WAY more 223s being fired than others.

PS I don't have anything against the 6.8, I have the one necked to 6. Nice little round but pathetically slow.

Well, yeah, in absolute's, that's true.

But the likelihood of jerking or pulling one in a 10 shot string is likely much higher than an incidence in a 3 shot or 1 shot string.

I've never been a competitive rifle shooter, but I've shot a lot of pistol matches & 10 shot strings at 50 yards will test all of your skills & concentration & the need for those skills & concentration goes significantly, almost exponentially, up as you get deeper into the string.

JMHO, YMMV.

MM

Its not like hunting situations don't amp up the stress level. And or self defense situations, especially someon possibly shooting at you amping it up.

The better you are, the better you are.

In 10 shots if you jerk 3, then its just numbers... means 30% of the time you are bad.
If you are good with that, then its cool.

if not you need to shoot more. As noted shooting more is never a bad thing.

I don't get why folks don't want to shoot 10 or 20 shot groups... mostly I hear excuses as to why they dont... makes me look bad etc... thats not the point... shoot more to get better. This isn't about what matters to others, its the point of testing your eqipment and being better with it.

Which would not matter one bit to my nephew, as long as he could go bang bang bang bang... missed a BIG buck at home with his AR... got off 5 rounds... he SHOULD have been hunting with a single shot....

My upper is sitting in town at the ups facility. They are closed Saturday and Sunday.
I'll have it Monday tho.

Put it on a lower, and went and test fired.
I like it so far.