Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Owner of a 7 twist now

As far as the rifle & load goes, it tells you absolutely nothing more than 10-1 shot groups, either overlayed or shot on the same target; other than maybe what a hot barrel does to you if you shoot it that fast.

As far as the shooter goes, fatigue & concentration do have an effect with 10 over 5 or even 3 shots.

But if you feel strongly & different, then rock on; not everyone wears the same colored glasses.

MM

You are right, 10 shot groups and 10, one shot groups both equal 10 rounds in paper. With some guns, your results will be better the less you move and get into and out of position. Either way shooter error comes into play at some point. For some it's 5, some it's 20.

If you want to play in the challenge thread you need to overcome your fear though.

I can't remember the last time a whitetail gave me 10 shots at it. I also can't remember one ever giving me a warm up shot.

I don't have any fear at all, just don't have a gun that's ready just yet.

No sense in shooting a gun that can't do 5 fairly close to MOA.

I'll get to it over time.

MM

That hasn't stopped some of us, haha.

So I see.

MM

I have gone so far as to shoot one shot each day for ten days for a ten shot group. and yes, I shoot at least a few ten shot groups when working with a new rifle, but I don't obsess over it. I've noticed many who prize little bitty groups wind up with rifles designed to shoot little bitty groups (and I have some of those too) but my Noveskes are an example giving up micro-groups for utility. 14.5" chrome lined pencil barrels, ALG ACT triggers, ACOG and 1.5-5 optics, ammo from the 'bulk bucket' of once fired LC brass loaded with 60 gr. NBTs, ect... so 1" to 1.25 five shot groups from both are a gift and "MOA-ish" as far as I'm concerned, but I'd not sweat 1.75" from these guns if that was the number.

if you jerk one out in 10, then it means you can jerk one out in 3 and you can jerk one out in one, IE you need more trigger time. Which is NEVER a bad thing.

But sometimes folks brains just can't accept the fact that they are not as good as they think they are.

a 10 shot group also tells you something about the combo of you and the gun, 2 10 shot groups tells you more about the combo of you and the gun. I just sold my Colt 6720 with carbine gas and got another DD with midlength gas. The little colt would shoot but at 7 shots or so the recoil impulse began to be noticeable to me. I will find out this weekend if the new DD barrels are as good as the old ones.

Jimmy, you really need to be gun tests as much as you sell and buy. LOL.

Recoil can certainly effect group size, even in something with basically no recoil at all like the 223 round. It still jumps and has to jump the same way every time...

My Daniel Mk12 is a 1 in 7". So far it has been so-so, but I need to test it with some other loads. My 1 in 8" Armalite is a good deal better (and heavier).

I know one thing that gets me, buy a 7 twist and then want to shoot 50-60 grain bullets.

Not that I care all that much but if I were never shooting more than 60, I"d have to research some, but I may well be at a 12 twist...

I am down to 1, 1-7 Colt pencil barrel and 2, 1-7 Noveske SS barrels. They all shot 50 gr NBT's just as good as the 77 gr SMK's up close. It ain't until distance get's out there that the 77's start winning the accuracy war.

So my stand is you can buy a 1-12 twist for lights and be stuck with lights or buy a 1-7 and shoot whatever you can poke in the magazine.

But as stated, MOA-ish will kill all that needs to be killed with a 223 and most like myself are only MOA-ish shooters.

yikes! I hope this one shoots at least as good as the colt barrel.

I only have 3 as well, its just a different 3 all the time.

technically I guess I have 4 but the 4th is the SR762. I kind of want to swap that one and try a 6.8 SPC.

I'd try one of the 6mm's or 6.5's before a 6.8. They will fly better.

I don't think I could replace my .308 though. Got to have at least one large frame AR. I have considered a 6mm Creedmoor barrel for it though.

I TOTALLY agree on that count, of course I'd never limit myself to 60 vmax, but whenever I find some I sure what to play a bit evenutally.

Still to many 75 bthps loaded up laying around plus all the match ammo we never shot, to burn up though. And never seen the 75bthps not kill just fine.

Have yet to get cozy with a 10.. everytime I pick someones up, I just want my 308 bolt gun instead... just me though.

I am not so sure about the Grendal, the bolt seems to be the weak link and some of the pressures people are running in that think have me scratching my head.

This is copied from AR Performance web page and gives me pause on the Grendal.

http://www.ar15performance.com/6_5_grendel

According to Alexander Arms 50,000psi is the maximum pressure the Grendel should be loaded to. LRR the super mod agrees and posts it on almost every forum. Accurate Arms data shows 29.5gr of 2520 produces 51,833psi or 1833psi over the limit. That load will push a 123gr bullet to 2471fps out of a 20" barrel. If we remove 1/2gr to get it just below the maximum allowed pressure it drops the max possible vellocity of the Grendel to apx 2421fps. Never exceed the max pressure due to the hoop stress of the larger diameter catridge in stainless barrels and additional thrust on the bolt.

According to a firearms engineer from NC in recent posts on arfcom he says the max bolt thrust should be the same as the 5.56 to retain the same safety to strength ratio. Figuring the max case internal diameter of the 5.56 at .373-.0125 for each side at the thinnest area we get .348". The area is .096x58000 psi =5568lbs thrust. Area of the Grendel inside case is .136Si. 5568lbs thrust/.136=40914psi to keep the bolt thrust the same as a 5.56. ...40914 PSI

according to real world shooters years ago, the bolt was not an issue.

I've run a don't know how many bolts through a bit over 60kpsi in 223 over the years and never had a single issue. Likely close to a million rounds if I"d have to guess.

The safety freaks sometimes just get a bit anal.

I question any load that a half grain of powder makes almost 250 fps difference... thats a WILD difference for 5/10 of a grain.

Granted when I did the testing of the 6.5 it was not quite the grendel yet, but more a 6.5 ppc basically and may have had throat changes etc.. since then that create issues if folks don't know how to deal with them.

6.8 despite its poor ballistics seems more popular.