I have never owned an AR 15-type firearm. With regard to price, quality, accuracy, and resale value, are there some models/brands that consistently stand out among the many?

My interest initially would be with a gun equipped with factory sights rather than optics, though a scope would likely come later.

I would take a close look at Rock River arms, I own a Lar 15 and it is very accurate, two of my hand loads will shoot groups under three inches at 400 yards.

+1 On the Rock River..

Colt although I'm partial to Stag Arms.

The Colt fan boys will show up soon.
You might as well just buy a Colt 6920 and save all the arguing.

NVhntr: I wondered about that very thing regarding Colt products. I've had "real" Colt 1911s for years. I seldom trade or sell such pistols, but I know they retain value well. Whether they shoot as accurately or better than other brands, I don't know.

Colt.

Colt.

Colt.



Travis

Turn Key out the box, and my choice if a reasonable good deal:

#1 KAC (if you are willing to jump head first into the E-3 bolt) The E-3 Mod 2 keymod w/ the LMT sopmod is absolutely amazing!! For me, no better bolt, no better rail, no better gas system, no better battle sights, and these things just plain run well. Don't see myself having thoughts of resale, I'd likely keep mine running, every piece and part, until there is nothing left to be salvaged. Did I mention these things are amazing!!

#2 BCM (OUTSTANDING people behind that product) For me, almost like having a Colt custom shop run by those who know their stuff, good mid-length design, good lightweight out the box, second favorite rail, but most favorite if not using a KAC Mod 2 gas system. If you can build your own, turn key kinda looks expensive compared to #3.

#3 Colt (Not quite the same as what I use to think of COLT, but take it out the box and go). For me, 3rd favorite choice out the box, but 1st favorite choice if I just want to use it as a base to build something.

My not knowing what the first two acronyms mean should tell him a lot about resale.



Travis

Noveske.

oops I thought you said without regard to price ect..

ABC........

Anybody mention Colt?






Travis

The responses are appreciated. No mention of Ruger and S&W. Are these considered among the less desirable ARs?

I have a S&W and "less desirable" are the last words I'd use to describe it.

But it's not a Colt. It's a sample of one. Find departments using S&W's and you have more problems than departments using Colts.

You asked about resale value vs initial cost, Colts are it. Unless you're buying during some sort of AR frenzy, you're not going to get burned on a Colt. Not to mention they shoot like a [bleep] and tend to go bang when you want them to.

Noveske's and their ilk are boutique.



Travis

ONLY since you did mention resale value I would ageee on Colt. For around the same price stag and rock river but again in regards to resale....they don't say colt on the side.

With Colt 6920's running $800 or so, that would be my pick.

You can find more accurate AR's but you will not find a more reliable one in that price range.

can you still find a 6920 for $800?

ked

Gary what is the deal with the E-3 bolt? Just curious? Why is it better?

I can't......start at $999 in my area now.

Another vote for RRA !

Check out gandrtactical, they are out of stock on 6920's but have 6720's for $799. They also have the OEM's for $725.

I found mine at a dealer about 60 miles from me, a friend bought one, someone here wanted their contact info and they bought one and I finally could resist no longer. He is out now but they are out there. These were OEM's with MagPul furniture in Kryptec camo, some other camo and mine has skulls painted on the furniture. $799

At the same time I had another dealer tell me his best price on a 6720 would be $950 plus tax. There are deals out there and there are dealers looking to cash in, choose wisely.

Kinda. They've started going back up.

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-Law-Enforcement-M4-Carbine-p/le6920.htm

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-OEM-AR15-M4-556mm-Rifle-No-Furniture-p/le6920-oem2.htm

TWR, that was a good deal. I grabbed 3 of those a couple months ago when they had dipped down into the $750 range. Wrapped them back up and tucked into the back of the safe, for now. May Ferrari one of them some time in the near future.

You not knowing who they are doesn't mean much, dude

KAC's hold value probably better than just about anything available.

BCM to a lesser degree.

For price & value right now, can't beat Colt if their limited configurations horn you up.

KAC is a great gun.

BCM is fine & a great gun if you don't ever need to take it apart........when they start using some anti-seize on the barrel threads & torquing the nut to a spec that allows reasonable removal, I won't touch one.

If one doesn't want a Colt, the SIG M400 is virtually the same gun 7 at least as good, but I haven't seen them quite as cheap as the 6920's.

MM

Longer life, higher reliability.

I have 2 KAC's, a 16" MOD2 & an 18" Kreiger cut-rifling barreled LPR MOD1 version.

They are the smoothest functioning & softest shooting rifles I've ever shot. Period. Next best was a Black Rain gun.

Here's a full explanation & video of the E3 bolt characteristics.

E3 Bolt Desc & Explanation

When I talked to Knight about having to run a standard bolt in an emergency, they said a standard bolt will run in the gun but an E3 bolt would not run in a standard barrel.

Haven't tested it so can't comment from my own experience.......I just went ahead & bought a spare E3 bolt.

MM

Knight’s Armament Company/Stoner has primarily been a defense contractor making weapons and SOPMOD weapons packages for USSOCOM. Only in recent years have they started a commercial division, KMC, to market stuff for civilians. On their SR16 Stoner rifle, they make a parallel SR15, Stoner was tasked with improving his original bolt design to either reduce or eliminate some of the common failures and breakages experienced by the military:

1. His original square lug design would develop cracks at the base, which would result in broken lugs. He corrected this by using a new rounded lug design, having web reinforcement at the lug base. Results, cracks no longer develop and lugs do not break.

2. His original design extractor tended to lift due to bolt rotational forces on fast cycles. He corrected this by re-designing the extractor, it is now T-shaped, using two coil springs, and he change the pin location to improve angles. Results, the lifting issue was eliminated.

3. His original design cam pin would develop cracks at its location on the bolt, and the bolt would break. He corrected this by re-designing the cam pin so that this area could be beefed up. Results, cracks no longer develop and the bolt does not break.

4. His original design would capture debris along the bolt face. He corrected this by adding a debris groove. Result, this is no longer an issue.

Stoner’s improvements over his old design was dubbed the E3 bolt. I run this bolt in my Mod2. The twin sister to my KAC is now in a museum. It was torture tested for a year, without cleaning, and without maintenance. It went over 20,0000 rounds without fail, and in the end, it still passed testing and held under moa. A couple of the military guys who are now instructors, ran maintained E3 bolts, and were seeing 60-70,000 rounds before cycling them out. Not just a strong testament for the E3, but for the entire KAC Stoner rifle. I do not believe there is a documented incident of an E3 bolt breakage.

You cannot run a round lug E-3 bolt in a square lug Colt. But, if needed for an emergency battlefield repair, you can run a mil-spec square lug bolt in a KAC, and it will function. But it is for an emergency field repair, not a long term repair, as the square lug would cause excessive wear and damage.

Very, very, few people are in the position to run their rifle long and hard enough to appreciate the enhancements that KAC brings to the table. For most, you would do fine with a standard mil-spec bolt, and just replace or fix it as it breaks down. But as for Colt, or anybody, vs KAC, KAC has some proprietary parts that are markedly superior to what anyone else can bring to the table. It is my favorite, by far, for an out the box gun.

Best

"I have never owned an AR 15-type firearm. With regard to price, quality, accuracy, and resale value...."

lotech,

Since you are new to AR's I would suggest a Colt 6920 or Colt's AR15A4 (if you can find one).
If you find AR's are not your thing, the 'Pony' will have a fairly decent resale value.
If you want to build something different, again the Colt lower will be a good place to start.
The quality and accuracy are there.

There are better AR's, and you will pay for the difference.
Wilson makes a very nice AR15.
So does Lewis Machine and Tool.

Pay once cry once.

The premium stuff tends to sit on the shelves a looooong time. Unless you give it away.



Travis

price, resale value....just get a Colt with Magpul furniture. Swap in a Geiselle trigger and maybe a keymod rail. If you take resale or any other requirements out of it, that will change things. Lots of builders put out a quality product for a fair price. I do not own a Colt, etc. because I do not intend to sell mine.
Although I do wish I'd built on a lower made for 45 degree safeties.

For a basic AR15 with good features and a low price, the S&W M&P15 Sport II is a decent option. It comes with A2 front sight, Magpul flip up rear sight, 30 round clip, dust cover and FWD assist. It's a 5.56 barrel so it shoots 5.56 or .223 rounds. $639.00 out the door at Buds:

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...s/SWL+MP15SPORTII+10202+556+16+AS+BLK+30

Again, comments appreciated and points well taken. Looks like Colt would be a good choice for the beginner.

I've got an Uberti SAA. Maybe it's as good as a Colt. I've got a S&W MP15...it's not as good as either of my Colt's.

You got lots of these other brands...just get a Colt unless you want to do tons of research. 6920 or 6720.

A Smith and Wesson or even a DPMS is a good choice for a beginner. A Colt is a great choice for anybody.

I would buy Stag for my first and last AR

buying a gun for resale value means you will probably be selling a gun you bought based on other people's wants instead of what you want.

No, resale is only one factor of those mentioned in the original post. Quite often, however, and perhaps not coincidentally, resale value is determined by all the factors.

We all have opinions and I appreciate yours.

I understand and I've been there. that was just my general thought and not criticism.

I've noticed all of my favorite firearms are outside the mainstream and not guns I could sell easily without taking a beating.

but that's bit me, too.

Here is a cut and paste from a thread of similar nature, from mid December:

"DD,

Yes, FN is top notch, and on par with Colt in terms of quality.

I have made multiple trips to the U.S. factory and it is very much state of the art, with exceptionally modern practices/manufacturing equipment.

FN turns out M-16 series rifles, along with M249 SAWS, and M-240 series belt feds in big numbers for our military, as well as other customers. Their semi auto/civilian legal AR stuff comes from the same facility, simply with the obvious differences.

If I was told I was going to be in a firefight in 30 seconds, and I could grab any new AR I wanted, I would grab a new Colt or FN without hesitation. Definitely the top two major players."




The short version is that Colt is a more recognized brand, and top notch, but FN is also top notch, though less people outside the military are familiar with them.

Flip a coin.

Link to previous thread:


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10874921/1