A local gun shop has one S&W M&P 15 (sku # 811000) in stock for $1100. They have Colt 6920s listed on their website for $1000, but they are currently out of stock. I put my name on the waiting list for the 6920, but the LGS cannot tell me when the next shipment will be received.

The $1100 M&P appears to be very similar to the 6920. It has a removable carry handle and a chrome-lined bore with a 1:9 twist. The latest Colt 6920s seem to have dropped the removable carry handle in favor of a BUIS, and they have a 1:7 twist.

Setting aside the availability issue, I am sort of surprised that this particular M&P is being sold for $100 more than the Colt. Aside from the removable carry handle, I would think that the Colt would command a higher price than the M&P, but that's not the case in this instance.

My inclination is to stay on the list for the $1000 Colt and pass on the (one) in stock M&P at $1100. Anyone want to talk me out of my decision?

Thank you.

Based upon the sku # quoted by the LGS, this appears to be the M&P model in question:

M&P 15 811000

No warts on the M&P. I have two of them for general range work and have no complaints. One required an aftermarket trigger, but the other was fine as issued.

FWIW, I just tried to order a Colt 6920 figuring a quick $500 profit in December and was told they were out of stock at the distributor level and they had no idea when they would be replenished.

The 1:7 twist is not needed unless you plan on shooting the heaviest bullets.

Buy the Smith while you can, but stay on the Colt waiting list. Past experience tells me that name AR's will be getting harder to find as you get closer to November.

There's no way I'd pay $1100 for a S&W when Colts can be had for $800-$900 and the Smith should retail about the same, probably a little less.

The 1/9 twist may work for most but the 1/7 will work for all.

Thank you. I know that the M&P is a good rifle. I guess I was just surprised that it's priced higher than the Colt, although the carry handle could be the difference. I see that Ruger sells a $700 rifle that appears to be in-stock in some places, but it seems to lack some of the mil-spec features. Maybe not a deal-breaker for me, though.

If money was no object, I would just find the highest quality rifle that was in stock and met my needs and grab it. I just want a good AR to salt away in case it becomes impossible to get one in the near future.

BTW, I like your sig line. Ralph Peters was born and raised less than 10 miles from my home town.

Any opinions on this Cabela's "exclusive" Colt? Their website says it is "backorderable".

$800 Cabela's Colt

I'd be on that Cabelas Colt.




Travis

Gunbroker - buy a Colt 6920. I wouldn't wait at this point myself. Prices are already rising, and becoming harder to find.

You'd be out of your mind to pay $1100 for that S&W.

That's sort of what I was thinking, but this LGS does not appear to be out of line with most of their pricing. Looking around the Internet, it looks like S&W is pretty proud of their rifles lately.

They list the MSRP of that rifle at $1249.

You need to look around more.

I missed the price in the original post, but I agree the S&W is too high. However, if you want iron sights I firmly believe a carry handle sight with a A2 front beats a polymer Magpul anytime. Polymer may have a place in firearms, but sights aren't one of them.

CC,

If you really want a Colt M4gery and don't want to wait, search for the 6920 OEM1. I see a couple in-stock online. Needs a stock and handguards, but that was the point by Colt... a lower priced 6920 where you add your own. You can also look for the OEM2.

Jason

Thank you for the idea. I did see those a few days ago on the 'net somewhere, but I don't remember exactly where. I've been to the end of the Internet and back.

I have a LE6920, but two is one and...well, we all know how the rest of the saying goes. I'm getting that feeling that if I don't act soon, I'll regret it later, but I don't want to get too hasty and make a move I'll regret, either. I figure a 6920 might not be the best move, but it's never the wrong move.

With that said, I wouldn't mind having something a little bit different. Maybe even an A2 style rifle would be nice to have.

What would you say about a Colt 6920 with BUIS vs. a FNH FN-15 with removable carry handle at about the same price? At some point I might add an optic, and so I'm not sure if the carry handle would be a deal-breaker on this particular purchase.

The addition of an optic also has me wondering whether I'm interested in a rifle with the A2-style front sight (on both the Colt and FN). Also, standard handguards are OK, but I wouldn't mind something a little more versatile, but that's easier to remedy later compared to altering the front sight.

I wish I had more money and more time, but November will be here before you know it, and things could get dicey soon thereafter.

For $1100 I'd build one out of MUCH better parts than either the Colt or S&W have.

I like Colt better. The front sight can be used with a scope of 3-9 power you won't see it.

I bought one of the Colt OEMs and couldn't be happier.

It's been my experience that once someone adds an optic they never go back to irons. If that's in your future, buy the Colt instead of the FN. If you want irons, buy the FN.

Come December, the Colt will have a higher resale value.

That's great, but I don't want to feed another gun-barer. Does it come without the little person?

Looks like it also comes with a 30 rounder and a bag of Fritos.

this

Resale.




Travis

I don't think a 6920 is ever a bad move, if you're worried about future availability. But, it seems that you've deviated from your original post.

If you want a 6920, in OEM guise, I see them locally and online. Just buy one. Seems that you're on the fence. I think you need to figure out what you REALLY want... then start the research and questions.

You're right. I'm just looking to scratch an itch. Pennsylvania prohibits the use of autoloading rifles for any type of hunting, and I do not shoot competitively, and so the AR will mostly be a fun range gun and available for HD (or just put up for safe keeping).

I have one AR (a 6920), but I have two kids. I want to fix that soon in case it becomes difficult to do in the future. Another 6920 is the easiest solution. I was hoping to find one locally, but I'll probably need to buy online.

I bought one of the Colt 6920 OEM2's (low profile gas block). Added Magpul stock, Hogue grip, 11" Troy Alpha rail. Eventually I'll address the trigger, but that said it is a nice light rifle and seems to shoot well, at least in initial testing.

I was surprised to see a Colt in my favorite LGS a couple days ago for $999, along with a couple FN-15's. Don't remember the price on those.

Locally, those kind of guns are usually reserved for the big boys who can stock and carry a lot more inventory, not the little guy shops.

That's a great-looking set up. I would go with the LE6920-OEM2, but I can't find any in stock. There are a few OEM1 models listed on Gunbroker, but no OEM2 models. The only place I found them in stock online is at All State Police Equipment, but they sell only to individual LEOs and police departments.

I hear you, I'm in the same boat. Or, was

You might want to checkout Palmetto State Armory. You could probably get two rifles, one for each kid, for the price of a single Colt. Either rifle kits, or separate uppers plus lowers. You don't get the name recognition of a Colt, but I've been pleased with everything I've gotten from them. And many of their uppers are mid-length gas. Plus stainless or nitride instead of chrome. All depends on what you want. Inventory might be limited, but they update often.

If you still want a Colt, CDNN has complete 6920s with scope, laser, and other crap. You might be able to sell the crap, and reduce your cost. Defender Outdoors and Botach have complete rifles in-stock as well.

I think both guns are over priced, with the colt all your getting is a basic gun. AR 15's have come a long ways the last few years. even the cheap guns in most cases shoot just fine for your average guy. your average ar 15 likely never even sees 500 rounds. And if you end up shooting more than that your going to want to have upgrades done to the rifle beyond what the 6920 comes with.

I would get a RRA that comes with more upgrades. Or I would get a cheap palmetto gun that allows you to see if you really like Ar 15's that way you can learn what YOU like or want on your gun. everyone is different on what they want on their gun. especially when it comes to AR's. we can't even agree on single vs 2 stage triggers around here. a cheap basic AR will get you shooting and then you can decide when or even if you want to upgrade.

RRA has the operator 3 for less than $1100 bucks its way way more gun than a 6920 I wonder if they are offering it for 18% below the price they have on there. sopmod style stock, upgraded rail, upgraded trigger. 1 MOA guarantee. this gun will outshoot a colt which isn't typically known to be the most accurate gun in the world, because of the chrome lined barrel. These parts aren't the exact upgrades I personally would choose or have chosen for my Ar's however they are upgrades none the less. my RRA has changed alot over the years but its still is the most consistently accurate barrel I have ever had on an AR. everything shoots decently out of it. I can't say that for the other custom barrels I have played with. even I admit RRA is a little behind the times with their guns but the guns shoot and are reliable. here is a review:

RRA video review

Looks like G&R Tactical has them in stock for $740.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LE6920-OEM2

G&R is out of stock, you have to add it to your cart to tell.

A RR comes with more upgrades? Good Lord where do come up with this crap? In order to upgrade you need to start with a solid platform, RR ain't it. Then when you upgrade you need to use good quality parts, not the craptical junk RR throws on their crap.

Uh-oh.

The retard cannon seems to be firing for effect.




Dave

GFY look up what that means

. How many rra parts have you broke list The event and how it happened. How many bolts have you broke? Stocks? Triggers? Let's nail this down in detail or quit spouting your parroting of what others say. You probably shoot at a gun range twice a year. Come on let's get specific. Maybe we can learn something from you "experiences"

Google tells me it stands for "The Church of Jesus Christ and Ladder Day Saints."





Dave

Check out this God awful group put out by an iron sighted Colt @ 100yds.

Flave that's real good shootin...did you wipe the frito salt off her hands before she shot it?;)

Granted, I assume folks think that highpower shooting doesn't test how well built a gun is, but if it did, RRA never did fair badly...

I"ve been beaten by a couple of stock RRA service rifles over the years.... of course much better shooter, but thats not the point.

I've not broken any of the ARs I have owned, though I did have issues with 2 olympic arms guns that were barrel/chamber related that were, years later, made good by them...

Any that know me, know I"m not the best at babysitting what I own/run... I tend to use them as tools and put em back int eh tool box...

I"ve had Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, Olympic, EA, RRA(quite a few pieces and parts actually),and a few other names that escape me right now that have not been built into guns at this point...

Can't recall breaking anything over a few years competition, and I forget how many rounds we added up once...maybe 250K possibly?

But again, I dont run and gun, drop em in the dirt, roll on em, gum em up etc... either. While rust on teh surface isn't a big issue with me, the insides or getting em covered in dust/grit/grime does bother me and have tried to avoid that and shooting in the rain if at all possible...

Why buy an off brand like RRA when good rifles from Colt, DD, BCM, FN, etc. are available for the same price?

I have a RR plain jane flat top that I have had for 10 years or so. I have not been gentle, and it still goes bang and shoots pretty damn tight. Personally I'd not hesitate to get another if the price were right.

Buy it!

Well I don't own any RR parts anymore and owned only a few at that.
Triggers, I saw 1 disconnector brad come loose and started pinning the rest of them. Had one made for a large pin Colt that was junk from the beginning.
Bought a couple of stripped lowers that had the grip screw drilled at the wrong angle, left quite a gap in the grip/trigger guard area.

While not a RR part I had a guy bring me a BM receiver extension that had snapped off at the threads. Got a good look at how commercial tubes are made.

Why does it matter, this weekend (I didn't get to the range) I had my mutt gun on my 4 wheeler and wound up sticking the stock between the bike and a tree while dropping off a big rock while making a trail. The LMT RE held up but the gun rack gave way. Little things like this matter if you actually get out and do something.

I've yet to see a RR carbine that wasn't over gassed. It makes a difference.

I loaded a little over 1000 5.56 rounds a few weeks ago that I've shot this summer. That doesn't include the IMI 5.56 I have shot. That's not a lot but it's what I've done with an AR anyway. And no, most of those rounds haven't been on a range I'm sad to say. You got me there.

Chrome lined bores have there uses and I doubt RR gives a 1 MOA guarantee on theirs. Start using those guns and fixing things for others and you might get a clue, but then again...

And this is strictly for carbines, I have no use for a 20" target rifle anymore, I use light weight carbines only.

Mostly when they talk about this stuff, it only applies to carbines. Rifles are so gentle on the parts they are in another class. I know a lot of guys shooting rifles for a lot of years and I can count the number of busted bolts on less than one hand. I've heard of more damaged M1A bolts.

The only guy to bust an AR rifle bolt that I can think of off hand, loaded his ammo so hot he only loaded it once.

Fritos can tighten groups and start fires.

They're awesome.




Dave

I didn't know you used to compete.

That's pretty cool.



Travis

first I would not call RRA an off brand. The problem with what your saying is there are a whole host of differences. I will talk about some of them.

AR 15's aren't what they used to be, used to be there were sub par parts that maybe didn't work well mix matched or maybe they weren't totally reliable together. This is why we saw brands like colt, larue and other medium to high end guns gain in reputation. The last 5-7 years even the cheap parts are pretty good relatively speaking. I think it makes the high end makers really struggle to show value in their products.

There isn't that much difference in the raw parts like the upper and lower. most are simply just private labeled parts made by one of the handful of upper and lower makers.

with that said the meaningful differences are, bolt, carrier, barrel, handguard and TRIGGER. lets look at what you get with each of the guns cited above.

RRA operator 3, you get a 2 stage trigger that is decent, it will not annoy most people and is very shootable. while there are better triggers on the market I don't feel that you will shoot them any better. granted I don't still run the regular NM trigger anymore but I am a trigger snob. You get a decent FF handguard. its not my first choice but its certainly an upgrade over the regular GI plastic clam shell handguard. upgraded sopmod style stock, I actually like this stock and its what I use on my builds. its got a little more length to it than most (LOP) and its comfortable to shoot off of. Yes there is lighter stuff out there maybe even better stuff. hogue grip, again I like these I use them, its and upgrade. you get and upgraded muzzlebreak, I can't see if they give you a chrome BCG or not, if they do that is certainly an upgrade. I like it because the bolt goes into battery a little easier and it makes loading the gun quietly easier. oh one last thing I love about RRA the SAFETY SELECTOR, its raised, no one else has one like it. I switch all my guns out to the RRA star safety selector. that COMES with this gun. one thing no one else is offering a 1 MOA guarantee!

what do you get with colt,

The main claim to fame is milspec parts, the good is they have been through extra inspection processes. THE BAD is they aren't allowed to be better than mil spec.

trigger, plain milspec gritty, annoying will want to change it trigger if you do much shooting,
handguard, plain GI claim shell
grip, plain GI
stock, basic as you can get 6POS
barrel, mass produced chrome lined M4 profile with funky step in the profile.
muzzle device, plain GI
no MOA guarantee

daniel defense, their guns are alot more than either colt or RRA, They do have some upgrades but you have to spend alot to get one with an upgraded trigger in it.

BCM, pretty much the same as DDM probably a little better value, a little less money that DDM probably a better value, but still a mil spec type gun that your paying extra for

FN pretty much the same as the top 3 but they do have options for upgrades, break out your wallet.


I can't see how there is a better value in the AR 15 world than RRA, I will never own a complete factory gun anymore, but a guy would be well served with RRA. mil spec parts to some mean they are tested and quaility controlled more. the problem I say is if you shoot often enough and enough rounds to come close to the supposed extra reliablity of milspec, which may or may not ever be seen, your an enthusiast and likely would be shooting or wanting to shoot a custom gun with parts you choose.

the fact is the guns ARE not the same, know the differences and what you get for the money.

thanks for being specific, is the dis connector brad your referring to a role pin that holds the dis-connector? I didn't know and have never seen a colt large pin RRA trigger could this have been a modified small pin unit? I could see it possible that role pin could move if its not in there good, the ones I have looked at are pretty mushroomed and I doubt would come out. probably something a guy should keep and eye on and inspect from time to time.

as for the grip being drilled wrong, I am pretty sure RRA doesn't make their own stripped lowers if so that could have easily been another manufactures issue, still not an excuse. RRA lowers aren't that competitive price wise. must have been a special deal I don't know why a guy would buy one for a build. I wouldn't, my own "RRA" gun doesn't even have one, its a palmetto blem with RRA parts in it.

The brad is a brad, it's worth taking a look at each one as some are mushroomed well, some aren't. The RR trigger is a decent trigger that's for sure. I actually thought RR drilled out a small pin trigger to make a large pin and drilled it crooked. Don't know but it was junk as are most Colt triggers.

The grip angle was a bad batch from several years ago, yes I got a deal on them considering there wasn't much choice back then. Mega was about it if you didn't want a "name brand".

The 6920 or better yet my favorite, the 6720 is a solid base to build on for a beater gun. No chrome lined pencil barrel is going to win any 600 yard matches but they are built right.

What you get is;
Chrome lined barrel capable of 1.5-2 MOA but no guarantee, though I've yet to see one that wouldn't do 1 MOA for 3 shots at some point in it's life, which is all RR guarantees.

Chrome lined BCG

Properly staked BCG and castle nut to keep a mil spec RE in place holding an H buffer with some of the newer ones coming with an H2 buffer.

Everything else grip, stock and hand guard are to each his own. I bought my last 6920 complete with MagPul furniture on it for $799, a price a man could build a solid gun on.

Off brand. Thats funny as hell. Don't tell that to a LOT of top shooters at Perry, maybe not national champs, but damn sure as good as me and better at times...

I've shot some range records with full on RRA with only a barrel change, even though the RRA barrel was more accurate than all you mention above to start with.. but it wasn't what I wanted...

You knew Steve too?

You may be right on the rifle, I think I have a carbine somewhere, but never really had a need to save 4 inches of length YET... its always possible though.

TWR,
I noticed the part of your response quoted above and decided to Google "6920 vs. 6720" to see what's up with the 6720, and this was the first reply to someone's question about the 6720 on another popular Internet gun forum:

I'd stay away from a pencil barrel,mostly because.the barrel will bend if you get it hot. Enough,& theirs a possibility of the barrel bending if dropped or stepped on. I own a 6920 $ a 6721 no problems at all. Also own a Daniel defense m4 which. Is my favorite

You might want to reconsider your choice....

All this time I really thought CC was an idiot. But now I realize he's just a really, really, really dedicated troll.

NOBODY really believes that Clark doesn't know what GFY means.





Well done, CC. You're "I'm too stupid to know how stupid I sound" act had me going all this time.

Coal Cracker, I'll be extra careful...

Jeff you used to shoot but you don't now, while you routinely shoot deer at 600 yards with your iron sighted 223, and now your agreeing with the cowboy. Wow. I have owned a RRA, used to own it anyway.

And for the "parts is parts" crowd, I've got an unknown make upper that may or may not fit your lower that I'd like to sell.

Since they're all the same, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

so blue dart how is it ok to make fun of someone religion? why aren't you flaming them instead of me? how would you respond if someone did that to you? I think GFY is more than appropriate especially when its brought out of no where in the middle of a question about guns.

I'm not trying to speak for Maverick but I would assume it's because nobody made fun of any religion.

Unless your being a retard is a form of religion.






Slider

I was not agreeing on cowboy on purpose, I just get tired of all the ragging on RRA, some known smiths use their parts, I"ve never seen anything bad, unless they've gone TU over the years, and I think with all my contacts I'd have heard that by now...

To many folks demand a combat gun when the closest they'll ever get to needing a drop me on the concrete from 2 stories 10 times a day gun will be in their dreams...

Unless its just common that folks over abuse their stuff these days. I was NEVER easy on gear trust me...

I"ll check with a few folks that may have won some stuff at nationals this year or had part in smithing their guns too and see what they have to say about RRA today...

But to be fair and honest, not everyone desires the same thing.

I say that having won some major stuff wiht an EA lower and some EA parts and a good smithed barrel on it. Thats a tough one for many to smoke in their pipes.....

How much you want for it LOL

Jeff, again this is dealing with carbines and not rifles.

Talk to some instructors who run carbine classes and see what holds up and what breaks down. Pat Rogers used to keep a log on failures during a class. It was home built guns, then non mil spec guns that made up most of the problems. He called this a "clue" best I remember.

RR builds a good gun for service rifle type matches. They use a good barrel, a good trigger and there was no need to bed one. Their emphasis was on accuracy. Step down to their carbine and some of them had problems, not all but some did.

We're I given a RR carbine, I'd change out the extractor kit, RE, stock, grip and hand guard to my choice. I'd restake the carrier key, stake the castle nut on the new RE and re-pin the trigger. Install an H or H2 buffer and it would probably survive all I threw at it.

The RRA carbine I had to specify the chrome lining separately the key was not staked. My neighbors 6920 was lighter and more accurate, and IIRC mystery metal bolt.... Gone gone gone...

If your in salt lake area bring a 6920 ammo will be factory and unknown to both of us. We can draw the brand from a hat. 6920 must be stock unchanged as is from factory. I put a 100 bill on my rra 16 inch carbine out shooting it.

As for stacked carriers all mine look just fine. Inspect that before you buy that gun. The weight of the gun is a product of how heavy the barrel is. Simply choose a model with a lighter barrel.

don't need to be in the salt lake area. Why don't you shoot this with your RRA Carbine instead of typing. I don't know if you can do it with honesty as many who's pride exceeds their skill will cheat. I shot it a few times at 100, have not done it with my new OEM Colt 6920 yet, but I need to do so. So instead of me being in Salt Lake city shoot this with honesty. Put 10 bullets down range into a group and let us know what you get...I will try to do the OEM Colt on Friday.


Campfire black rifle challenge

Ah yes, the classic "drive across the country and I'll prove you wrong" argument.

If only there were a network covering the world that people could use to share information. A web, you might call it. That covers the world. A world wide web, perhaps.

If we had something like that people could communicate the ability of their rifles and compare them to each other without having to actually be in the same place at the same time.

a web is a great idea, but i suspect it would be abused by those who just want to bicker, sorta like this site.

I think that's the same pig over and over.

lol. tell me what looks the same about him and i'll change it.

Mirrors. It's all smoke and mirrors.

i think what you're seeing is high humidity and lunar reflections. btw... that's a 6.8, not the 308. even an old dog can learn new tricks.

and just to show my humbleness...

lol

I believe Al Gore had a similar idea.



Travis

cummins,

My Colt has already seen 500 rounds. What should I start replacing?

Thanks in advance,
Dave