I stopped at our about to officially open Cabelas store yesterday and made the mistake of fondling a .416 Rigby in a SS / Lam #1H and also a .458 Win in the wood / blued version. I REALLY liked the feel. Can't see buying one of these in SS unless I was going to have it bead blasted and even then I think I'd prefer walnut / blue (although the extra 1/2 pound in the laminate can't hurt). I already hunt with a #1A in .30-06 and love the way it handles.

What do you have to say about the .416 or .458 #1H's? How's the recoil? I haven't shot any big bores yet so I have no real frame of reference. My slug gun, however, is a 3" mag 12 gauge that weighs about 5.25 pounds so it has a decent slap to it. I have no real use for a big bore but it sure sounds like fun!

I have the 1-H blued in .458 Lott. I just shot it with full loads last week. If you aren't used to big guns, don't start with these. They are fairly light for big guns an do kick hard. They have a nice shape, however, and fit me well which keeps perceived recoil down.

So, what guns would you recommend to start with in the big calibers?

I would really prefer a big mauser actioned bolt gun if actually going DG hunting. Since I have no plans to do so (and can't seem to justify a DG gun as more than a play thing) I don't really want to spend a ton of money if I go there now. The price on the #1's is certainly reasonable. I do like the lines of the #1H but also think a SS in a DG caliber is a bit of an oddity. Seems that anything that requires a DG caliber would be better served with a repeater of some sort. However, if just having fun, a SS seems hard to beat.

I'm not an expert on big guns like some are here but I do own a few. I have a M77 in .416 Rigby that is quite mild to shoot but its 11 lbs and that tames it quite a bit. My Sako .416 Rem kicks more but is lighter and thinner in the stock.

Just curious - is your M77 11 pounds scoped or bare? (Or is it even wearing a scope?) Do you handload reduced rounds for practice or shoot quite a bit of full power stuff? It actually seems that a .458 of one variety or another might be better for reduced practice loads since you could load bullets intended for a 45-70. I certainly don't want to spend the $5-$8 per shot for factory Rigby ammo so I'd defnitely roll my own (which I do now anyway for my other rifles).

Thanks for the info!

Mine is 11 lbs bare(I don't even have it scoped right now) as its an early production(1992) with the heavy contour barrel. Here's the #1 in Lott and the M77 in Rigby:

http://groups.msn.com/SakoCollectorsClub/afewmoresakos.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=642

Thanks for the pics - I really like the wood on the #1.

Me too. I really wasn't looking for a 'Lott' but when I saw it, I had to buy. M77 has nice wood too but the pic doesn't do it justice.

BTW, don't count my opinion too much. The next person might tell you the fit of their #1 keeps recoil low. So much depends on how a rifle fits you, however, there is physics behind it all and light guns have more velocity hitting your shoulder than massive(heavy) ones.

mv=mv for the physics buffs out there!

No doubt about both points. My old Win 70 Carbine in 30-06 kicked like a mule (light weight and poor stock fit) but my #1A in 30-06 (heavier and stock fits me better) is a pussy cat. My heavy .338 Win Mag Browning Safari (which I sold) was a joy to shoot as well but it also fit me well. I wish there was a place I could shoot one of the big #1's prior to purchasing to check the fit and recoil but they aren't too common so I doubt this will happen.

I'm up in Alberta-you're welcome to come shoot(and we have our own range)

I appreciate the offer - if I was a bit closer I'd take you up on it!

Anyone else out there with a #1H in .375 H&H or larger that wants to comment?

Here's a nice 'big bore' that is almost 11 lbs that should be built well:

http://www.hollandandholland.com/gunrooms/london/new_stock_weapons/details/118/?cHash=76954f13ef

That's just cruel, isn't it?

Well, it's been quite a while since I shot these rifles, but my .375 H&H #1 kicks me less than my .375 H&H Winchester Model 70, and the #1 is an older one with the thin red pad. The #1 also is much more pleasant to shoot than the .45-70 Browning/Mirokuchester which was traded toward the #1, and also more pleasant than a Remington 870 with full-power slugs. I can't really be more specific, as it's been several years since I shot rifles in anything bigger than .223 and .308; my wife's interest in Africa has diminished and there are not many Buffalo, Cape or otherwise, down here in Texas. I do need to get out and shoot the big boomers again, though; I miss it. In fact, I almost bought a pre-owned SS #1 in .416 Rigby a few months ago, but someone else beat me to it.

That's just not right at all. While those sure make me drool, I'm not sure I could ever bring myself to take one into the bush. Of course, it's not likely I will ever have to worry about it since I don't plan to sell my house to buy one and couldn't afford it otherwise.

Rexster,

Thanks for the feedback. It seems a common thread that the .375's (while not true big bores to most people) are a world away from the .416's (and even more from the .458's on up) in recoil. A lot of people seem to think the .375's are downright pleasant to shoot. Perhaps that would be a good place for me to start with the bigger guns. I doubt it would kick a lot more than the .358 Norma I am building right now.

Stanimal, I have got a #1 in 375 Holland that I bought as a test bed when I was trying to decide what caliber my Hagn was going to be. It has been shot 100's of times and it has taken many hogs here at the ranch and even a stray dog or two. Anyway, using the iron sights and any decent load it jars my teeth. After about 10 rounds offhand I can develop a flinch if I am not careful. The stock shape is exactly wrong for me and that seems to magnify the recoil. I put a 1 pound mercury tube in the draw bolt hole and carved the stock down some and it is much better now. As long as I don't drive the 300gr bullets near max I don't mind shooting it a bunch.

I don't believe that I would enjoy anything bigger on the #1 format. The 416's and 458's would just be too much recoil in an ill fitting rifle. I would like one of the 9.3x74R's, that strikes me as a very good match.

SS
josh

Stanimal,

My passion for the big bores has waned somewhat over the years. In fact, I seem to have become a dedicated medium bore slut.

However, I have owned two #1s in .375 H&H. I liked them very much. Likely, I'll buy another when I find a "pre-warning" one at a fair price.

I find them very shootable with 270 gr. bullets. However, with a healthy dose of IMR-4064 and 300 gr. Hornady RN,s they will definitely get your attention.

I have also owned #1's in .416 Rem, .416 Rigby, .416 Taylor. I still own the Remmy, but have yet to take it to the range. I can't see that the recoil will be any different that the Rigby. (same bullets at equal velocity) The Rigby was very shootable with 300, 325, and 350 gr. bullets. But substantially more recoil with the Horn 400 gr. RN. I made more than one "tough guy" a believer with 101 gr. of Re-22 and the Hornady 400 gr. I mean talk about a "Come-to-Jesus" meeting, They were ready to swear off sinning entirely and get religon. Actually the was the best use for that rifle. (Especially since there are very few marauding elephants in MI...)

Considering the chamberings that the 1-H is available in, I think the .375 and the .405 Win are the most useful. But I'd bet I'll have a .450/400 as soon as they are available.

Gtrasshopper

Stanimal. I have Ruger #1H rifles in .375 H&H, .404 Jeffery and .416 Rigby. The .375 is rather pleasant and is quite accurate. The .404 jeffery kicks about like a 30-6, but that's because the guy I bought it from put a muzzle brake on the rifle. If I had my druthers, that brake would go. The .416 is flat out uncomfortable, although I can do about ten shots before getting shakey. The .375 has a scope on it while the .404 and .416 have the factory iron sights. Probably all three rifles could benefit from a better system that Ruger's hard little recoil plate. Sorry, I refuse to call it a recoil pad. I don't know what Ruger was thinking when they put those thin pieces of red rubber on the harder kicking rifle, so I must assume that they just like to keep their heads in warm dark places.
Something one should consider. Even ammo for a .375 H&H ain't cheap, and it's getting more expensive. Ammo for my .416 runs $125 and change for a box of Federal Premium which works out to $6.25 every time you pull the trigger. Definitely not plinking stuff.
Of the three cartridges, I'd probably suggest one in .375 H&H. Recoil with factory loads will still get your attention but will probably not damage your body. The .416 in a Ruger #1 hurt one of the shooters in a GUNTESTS article when they were testing the gun and comparing it with two others. They immediately recommended that people not buy the gun until Ruger puts betetr recoil protection on the butt. My thoughts at the time was he held it wrong, but unless you're careful, yes, it will hurt you.
If you decide on the .375, here's a load that is fun, accurate and relatively inexpensive to shoot. The RCBS cast bullet #37-250-FN, nominally a 250 gr. bullet, actual weight using wheel weight metal, 275 gr. over 49.0 gr. of IMR or H-4895. I've never chronied the load but from the bench 1.25 to 1.50" groups are the norm. Estimated velocity is about 1900-2000 FPS. It's a good load to practice rapid reloading with a single shot rifle. Recoil is about like a stiff 30-06 load. I size my bullets to .379"
Paul B.

Got the blue walnut in a 1H in 405 Winchester. Nice rifle. Good fit and finish, and acceptable wood. Accurate as a drill press. I am also new to big bores, and I can say that the 405 ain't no kitty cat, but it doesn't hurt either. Figure the difference out -- the 405 tosses a factory 300 grainer downrange at 2270 fps from my 24" bbl. To do that it burns about 60 grains of powder, and the rifle weighs about 9.5 pounds all in.

The 416 Rigby in the same rifle is about a half a pound heavier, and it chases a 400 grainer downrange at 2400 fps and burns about 100 grains of powder. Guess which one recoils heavier?

The 458 WM would be comparable I would guess -- heavier bullet, slower speed, and about the same amount of powder. I almost bought a 416 Rigby in the #1H, but the guy that owned it said the Sims Limbsaver took the sting out of the recoil, "but it still comes back pretty good." I passed. If anyone here wants, I will plead guilty to the wimp factor.

What a wuss.... !

I have yet to take my .405 to the range, so I can't comment on it's recoil... But I will say, that after 12 rounds thru my 1895 Win. in .405, it made an immeadiate detour to the gunsmith for a Pachmayr "Decelerator". I can't say that it made a whole lot of difference, tho'.

Grasshopper

Just a quick piece of feedback from the NRA show (actually 2):

1. I handled a .375 H&H #1H and LOVED it. It may be a while but eventually one of these will most likely follow me home.

2. For those that are interested - the word at the Hornady booth was that the 450/400 NE ammo would be available starting in May (yes, of 2007). They had a dummy round there and I spent some time talking with one of their reps about it. It was the 400gr. soft point and looked like FUN! Don't know if they will be on the shelves by May as promised or not, but thought I'd pass this on in case anyone was interested. This one might give the .375 a run for my money.

Thanks for the info, Stanimal. Good to know I'm one step closer to getting my .450/400! good luck with the .375!

When I was quite young, I picked up a custom in .458 win (Douglass barrel built on an Eddystone action). Thing kicked like something awful. Got rid of it after getting the split stock fixed.

I saw a #1 in .458 win a couple of years ago, and found it shoots very comfortably. Since then, I got the bug -- .416 rem in #1, .416 rigby and .458 lott in m77. ALL of them are *pleasant*. What I mean is that I can/have put 15 rounds through my Lott with no bruising -- though my shoulder had a little soreness that passed in a day or so... So much has to do with fit and how you mount the gun (one thing that seems to have impact is clothing that is slippery -- don't know why, but I've found all of these much more unpleasant with my slippery winter coat). A few hints: don't mount the gun on the ball of your shoulder or on your arm... the stock should go in the "pocket" off your joint. Take a position that is a little more open -- with your body facing more towards the target. Make sure your left elbow is still UNDER the gun (THAT may feel a little strange, but you will get good accuracy anyway). Hold the stock SNUG against your shoulder. Boom! Enjoy! At least, that's the recipe that has worked for me.

Dan