Normally, I abhor these kinds of posts.... As in: Why would anyone want to build a rifle on someone else's emotion... But I digress: Here's my story..

I have a Ruger #3 Action. It was a .45-70. I had taken it to a gunsmith to have it rebarreled to a .444 Marlin. Well, that was 18 mos ago and he's not done anything but disassembled it. In the meantime, I acquired another .444 Marlin. So in a conversaton with him the other day, we decided to scrap the project. I could put it back to .45-70, but I have three other .45-70's. He has a SS #1 bbl that would make it back to .45-70... But I don't have a need for that chambering.

I've about had it with the heavy kickers anyway...

I have Ruger take-off bbls in .270 Win, .243 Win, and .223 Rem.... Also have a take-off in .22 Hornet. That said, I'm not particularly fond of the .243... (I have two bolt guns, and a Browning Lo-Wal.) I have waaay more .270's than I need. I have 3 other rifles in .223, and I have another Ruger #1-A in .22 Hornet and a Browning LO-Wall in K-Hornet... Thus, those options are not attractive.

I think sgl rifles and rimmed cartridges go together... But, a quick trip thru CoTW, Chapter on obsolete American cartridges, didn't turn up much.

I have been wanting a sgl shot in 6.5 Jap just for S&Gs but that would be expensive and no expectation of return on my investment. After all, who, besides me, would want a rifle in 6.5 Jap?

I have a new Pac-Nor turned blank in 6.5, (1~8 twist) but I was saving that for a Ruger 1-A in 6.5x54 MS...

Also have a new Pac-Nor turned blank in 7mm that I was saving for a 1-A in 7x65R.

The thought of a Sgl rifle in .35 Win. has merit, However, the .35 Win. is rather anemic, but I do have dies and a fairly
large supply of reloaded ammo on the .30 Army case... Also, I have two other rifles in .35 Whelen, a .350 Rem Mag, and 3 or 4 in .358 Win. Not to mention a .35 Newton, and a .35 Apex. Thus I'm pretty well covered in .35's

Thus I'm not coming up with any viable ideas... Anyone from this Think-Tank got any better ones?

How about you #1 gurus? 1-B, ENU, etal???

6.5 bbl? Not sure about extractor fit, but what about 6.5BRM?

You don't mention what style stock you're planning to put on it, whether it will be a light carbine style, or a bigger piece that would lend itself to more robust power rifles. I do think a #1 style with the #3 lever looks pretty nice.

Not sure what you'd label a "hard kicker", or the intended use - hunting or target shootng. I'll assume for the moment you don't want a .50 Alaskan, .470 Nitro, or .416 Rigby. Starting with large, and working downward, I can think of:

.460 S&W
.45 Colt
.44 mag
.41 magnum
.405 Winchester
.40-65 for silhouette
.38-55/.375 winchester (if you go this way be sure to tell how hot it can be loaded )
9.3 x 74R
.348 Winchester ( might be pretty wicked in a strong action)
.33 Winchester
.32-40
.32-20
.303 Brit
.30-40 Krag
.300 Rook
.219 Zipper
.22 Savage Hi-Power

There are several other rimmed English cartridges, various "Flanged Nitros" that would certainly make interesting conversation pieces. I expect with any of the above you'd be the first on your block with one

I'd haveta do a 6.5-06 Improved or maybe a 6.5x348 Imp if ya GOT to have rimmed????

Tod,

I hadn't thought about the 6.5 BRM... But in a conversation with J.D. Jones, recently, he seemed stuck on his 6.5 JDJ

If I go 6.5, it will be the 6.5 Jap. I have the dies, and brass and loaded ammo. Not to menton a dearth of 6.5 bullets.

LIkely I'll use factory #1 wood...

460 S&W has merit...ONe could still use the .45 Colt or the .454 Casull. Alto I'm not real big on pistol cartridges in rifles...

I alrady own rifles in .40-70 SS, .40-65, and .405 Win. (Two of my .405's are a #1 and a Custom B-78, and a M-95 Win.)

I have three rifles in 9.3x74R (A factory #1-S, and a Custom #1 w/tapered octagon bbl..

.348 Win, and .33 Win. were consedered and discarded. The .348 because I have a M-71 Dlx, and the .33 Win because of brass forming difficulties, and die availability.

.32-40, .30-40 and .375 Win are out because I have other #3's so chambered...

.219 Zip and .22 HP were considered, and discarded because I have a slew of varmint rifles that rarely get shot...

The .32-20 is out because I plan to buy one of this years limited run Winchester Lo-Walls in .22 Hornet and have it bored to .32-20. AFAIC, the .25-20 and .32-20 just beg to be in a Low-Wall.

BTW, Ruger #1's and #3's are not legal for BPCS because of the lack of external hammer.

Of all the ones you mentioned, only the .303 Brit. is the best bet, but I'd rather it'd be in a #1-A...

GH

I already have a rebored 1-B in 6.5x.270, AKA: 6.5x64 Brenneke...

How about a 7x57R? (Hint...I'll send you some brass .)

If you want an American cartridge, how about a .33 Win, from way back when?

Then, for a good-modern, think about a 7mm STE, aka a .284/.358.

Sounds nice to have a situation to develop long-winded, intriguing ideas...

Dennis

30/30 or 25/35 and if you're feeling extra sporty do an Ackley version of the aforementioned.

Bah. Always wanted a .405 and also a M71 DeLuxe.

Somebody else mentioned JD Jones - the .375 JDJ actually wouldn't be a bad choice, either.

Maybe a wildcat....470 Nitro necked to .338

Have you thought about a 6.5x57R? Brass is easy to either buy or form from 7x57R or 8x57R. In a strong single shot it moves along briskly enough to make it a fine choice for medium game.

Regards

Dennis,

Nice to see you posting again... (BTW... I loved the "Pirate" look)

I had not thought of the 7x57R, Altho' I have a 1-A in 7x57. As you know, I have a #3 in .356 Win. A 7mm STE would not be a bad companion.

Steely,

Already have a Savage M-219 in .30-30 Ackley Imp. (And a T/C Contender in .25-35)

Rick,

Being the 6.5 slut that I am, that is an excellent option. Especially since, I already have the dies.

[I have been wanting a sgl shot in 6.5 Jap just for S&Gs but that would be expensive and no expectation of return on my investment.]
[After all, who, besides me, would want a rifle in 6.5 Jap?]

Then why not something anyone would want - a 6.5 Swede ?


[I have a new Pac-Nor turned blank in 6.5, (1~8 twist)] - doh

.

Rangr,

Excellent and logical suggestion, however I already have a Ruger K1-A in 6.5x55...

577 Nitro, cuzz we could go on forever guessing what you have and don't have, but I'll go out on a limb and say you ain't got a #1 in that.

6.5x57R

Jeff

i have a 35 wellan and a 405 the 45-70 270 and a bunch more single shots that 45-70 bufflo hunter 32 in barrel is the number 1 then 270 405 35 its what ever the hunt i go on mine lately is just white tails so they will all work but 18 month at a gun shop no way don't take that long for a barrel on less he doing it with a hammer in file

Well how right you are... However, I have about run the gamut of the big bores... I once owned a two .416 Rem Mags, 2 - .416 Taylors, a .416 Rigby and a .458 Win Mag. All I have left is a #1-H in .416 Rem. The only reason I keep it is for "educational" purposes.

Thought I had a brainstorm here. But it looks as if it won't work...

I was thinking of taking my barrel and chamber it in 6.5x50 Jap and when I tire of it, rechamber it for the 6.5x54 MS. However, the 6.5x50 is .455" at the base and the 6.5x54 is only .447".

I could, however go with the 6.5x50 now and rechamber later to the 6.5x57R. That just might be a solution, but would require me to scrap the 6.5x54 MS plan...

Well, I guess it's: "Back to the drawing board..."

If you want a 6.5x54 sometime, you could recamber for a 6.5x54 Kurz Mauser -- it has a .473 case head diameter... .

I have one, and it is sweet...

Dennis

.303 British.

Well, thus far the leading contenders for the suggestions are:

A: 6.5x57R

B: .303 British

C: 7x65R

The only detraction on the 7x65R is that I was saving that barrel for a #1-A. If I made this action into a 7x65R, I don't think I have any extra 1-A fore-ends. My stash of #1 Wood is getting sadly depleted... Now if I could trade a 1-H fore-end for a 1-A forend, I'd be good to go...

I like the x65R in the A; that matches well.

Figure that the .303 could be done up as an Epps, if you so chose to do an "Improved" cartridge, or with your penchants for 9.3s, the .303 case do neck up QUITE well to 9.3; almost a straight sloping taper at that diameter, reminiscent of a shorter 9.3x74R.

Or, you could sell the action to me, and I'll do the .303.......... as an RSI............

(only about half-joking).

SSK's 6.5 Mini-Dreadnought on the 220 Swift case produces 2900 FPS with a 120 and 2700 FPS with a 140 giving it a 300 yard positive deer killing range with very little recoil.

How about a 6.5 on a 444 Marlin case?Don't believe JD has ever done that one.It would most likely outshoot the 6.5x55 in an equal length barrel.

WB.

Actually, he has. 6.5JDJ.

Mc77 and WCB,

Any wildcat on a case with a cubic capacity of less than the 6.5/.270 that I already have is a rather moot point.

VA,

And, sorry, I do NOT have a 6.5 JDJ. I might have had, but for the tx conversation that I had recently with J.D. Jones. I told him what I wanted and asked if he could do it. He kept insisting that I chamber it to the 6.5 JDJ rather that the 6.5 Jap. Any smith who trys to convince the customer to what the customer wants, Rather than listening to the customer, Is not worth a hoot, IME.

After that conversation, it's likely I'll never own one of his proprietary cartridges... I just don't get real warm and fuzzy when someone tries to stick something down my throat that I don't want...

Another thought: I also have dies for the .25 Krag wildcat. That would be about the performance of a .257 Robts. Not really a bad place to be...eh?

Well, if you already have the dies, your decision seems to be made.

The .25 Krag would be a very classic, very classy rig, esp. on a #3 frame.

Go for it.

I've heard that about Jones.

BTW - my reference above was to the comment that SSK had not yet done a .264" on the .444 case; mine was a correction to that point. Sorry for the confusion.

5mm Remington

yeah! .25/35!

Expat

I think the 25 krag outdoes the 257 bob. I would love to see a pict of the finished product my borchardt was chambered for the 25 krag ackey by siegrist just a bit north of you. The chambering in my eyes is the original wildcat. He already has the reamer!

I would just do a little 44 mag carbine with a 16.25 inch tube.

BMT

If you want something a little different but accurate and fun, try .303 British or 7.62x54R.

On Canadian Gun Nutz one of the guys has a VERY cool rifle for sale, in 6.5/4570!!
Iffin' I didn't already have my 6.5/303IMP. my 6.5WSSM, the 6.5/284, and my .303 Brit project (that is in the works)
I'd be all over it - even if it is a Baikal action .
it has been restocked with curly Maple, action tuned, all dies for forming and re-loading , all for $500!
THAT would be a cool cartridge Grasshopper!
Cat

Cat',

I am a 6.5 slut, as well... But I really don't need any more 6.5 rifles. (Altho' I do admit a latent yearn for a 6.5 Krag)

I took a look at PacNOr's website today and it looks like I can just send them the action and have them barrel it to a .25 Krag. And since I already own the dies, this conversion makes a lot of sense. Powerwise, it would appear to duplicate the .257 "Bob".

I'm thinking: Half Octagon, and about as light as they will make it. Nix the Qtr rib and install target blocks. Among my treasures, is an old Fecker 7x scope. Might just be perfect on there....

I'd also like a .303 Brit, but at the moment I have a #3 in .30-40 Krag, so it's a rather moot point. Also own a P-14 that's been sporterized in .303, and that is one rifle I really don't need. When I shoot up what ammo and bullets I have, it will likely go on the block... I originally bought it to make a bolt action .405 Win, but realized that I have enough of those...

While the 6.5/.45-70 does have a certain appeal, I would just as soon limit my selection to dies I already own, rather that have to buy yet another $100 set of dies...

GH

When that P14 goes "on the block", you can just start the block with me.

That's the cool thing, this deal comes WITH the dies!!
However, I saw a pic of a very nice highwall in 25 Krag many years ago - American rifleman I think,( probably about a 1950's issue)and it had a Lyman Super targetspot on it.
I thought that was pretty neat as well.
In any event, yup, I think that halfround/octagon is now the cool way to go for a custom single shot.
Dang, that crack-barreled wildcat is callin' my name AGAIN!!
Cat

Just a caution: MANY versions of the .25 Krag out there. You need to specify which one you want; in general, the Short versions are meant to duplicate the .250-3000 and the full-length versions are meant to duplicate the .257 or (.25 Roberts as it was originally called) or the earliest versions of the .25-06. My GUESS is that Pacnor has one of the full-length ones, but you need to find out and also find out who makes dies for that exact version. A great ctg. or ctgs. A friend of mine has a Win Hi-wall made by P.O. Ackley in .25 Ackley Improved Krag. He can equal factory .25-06 performance in it (it has a 26" barrel).

I would have to agree with those who suggested the 6.5x57R. You have a 6.5mm barrel. It's a rimmed cartridge. It's a bit exotic but components are available. It should make a great hunting round in the No.1. What's not to like?

Mike,

My dies are RCBS and are marked merly .25 Krag. I'm assuming that is the full length one.

GH

While the 6.5x57 has a certain appeal to a rifle looney like me. I have no less than a dozen rifles chambered in the various 6.5 calibers. (Including 5; 6.5x55's and two 6.5/06's, and two 6.5 Rem Mags. While I have only a .257 "Bob", a .250-3000, and 2 .25-06's in .25 cal. Thus, the idea of evening up the disparity, seems attractive.

On a side note, I see no reason why my 6.5x57 dies could not be used to load 6.5x57R cases with merely a change of a shell holder.

Sean,

I'm now heading down to the "Cave", marker in hand, to scribe your name on the P-14. When I begin my 1-A project in .303, it can be yours....

GH

You're going to do a .303 Brit project as well?
COOL! ( see a No.1 trend here...?)
Cat

Cat,

I've been thinking of a No: 1-A in the .303 for a while, now. Reason I don't want a #3 in .303, is because I already have a #3 in .30-40 Krag. Thus to make one in .303 would be rather redundant, don't you think? BTW my Krag wears a M-8 Leupold 3x with CPC reticle...

It's just that the .303 is a ways down on my list of priorities. I can only do 1 or 2 semi-custom guns per year. And besides, I need another 1-A for a donor (Or maybe two...)

GH

We might be able to take total control of this forum , GH.
just think, a "single shot rimmed forum"!!
Cat

Cat,

Now, I have several #1's in rimless cartridges, and I like 'em, But a medium bore RIMMED chambering really gets my undivided attention!

(I know the .303 is a small-bore, but it's close!) Between the two of us, perhaps we can coerce a few others to jump on the band wagon...

GH

Works for me. I see "Epps" written all over that one.............. or perhaps 9.3x.303 British.........

Now THAT would be cool!
I have a buddy with a 35/.303IMP, pretty neat as well....
Cat

FWIW, the .303 necks up beautifully to .366". I've made a few dummy rounds using military brass, and running them first through a 8x57 expander, then a .357 expander, and finally a 9.3x62 expander. Seating 270 grain Speers with the 9.3 seater is easy, and the cases are very uniform.

Case capacity measures roughly the same as the 9.3x57.

Says I to Me:

I did not read that post.... I did not ready that post.... I don't need a 9.3 Rimmed.... ...

GH

Pics later........................

Bah! ... Humbug!

Could you build that round so that you could use 9.3x57 dies to reload it...?

Just a random thought... ?

Dennis

In BP terms,....that's VERY close to the .38-50 Remington Hepburn cartridge,.....I think the Rem .30 40 Krag brass (my Reamer's based on that brass) is a mite longer than the .303,.....but don't quote me on that.

Semper rimmed cartridges in single shots,.....

GTC

Necking up the .303, you'd have a slightly improved .35 Remington. The .303 holds 3.6 cc water, the 35 Remington case holds 3.4 or so.

You might be better off using a 7.62 x 54 R necked up. The Russian holds 3.8 cc.

FWIW, on case capacity, the necked up .303s to 9.3 that I have on hand measure right at 60.0 grains of water capacity. For reference, the 9.3x53R Swiss measures 61.2 grains, and the 9.3x57 63.0 grains. The 9.3x62 is at 78.0 grains. The .35 Remington is 52.0 grains.

I'd figure that the 9.3 Kraut-Limey, or the .360 Limey-Kraut, would give you comparable ballistics to the 9.3x57, but in a rimmed case.

You're stuffing a big bullet in that extra space, of course. Sounds at least like the 9.3 x 57.

Husqvarna made a lot of 9.3 x 57 rifles, and you can buy them still at a good price. IIRC, they're about like a .358 Winchester. And that's a great round.

Hmmm.....

The 9.3x57 specs at:
.470" at the base,
1.805" to the shoulder,
.433" at the shoulder,
17 degrees, 30 minutes on the shoulder angle,
.360" neck length, and
2.224" COAL.

I'll try to get more specific measurements on the 9.3x303, but it looks like it'll run thus:
.460" at the base
1.790"-1.80" to the shoulder,
17 degrees on the shoulder angle,
.401" at the shoulder,
.332" neck length,
2.222" COAL.

So, yes, I think the chamber can be cut and the brass worked so that the 9.3x303 can be loaded with 9.3x57 dies and simply serve as a rimmed 9.3x57. Considering that the .303 Brit is also know as the 7.7x56R, it ain't much of a "stretch" to make that happen.

The 9.3/303British (9.3x56R) dummy round loaded with a 285 PRVI Partisan as compared to a standard .303 British (7.7x56R) 174 gr. FMJ:

Uhh,...

.366 bore / .377 groove is pretty much considered a .38 cal. rifle,....not a .35 .

'round here, anyhoo.

GTC

Very cool...thanks for digging into it and showing us. You know...if you had a "9.3x57R" that fit the 9.3x57 dies, it would be a little "AI'ed" and have a slightly bigger shoulder. Or so I gather from the data. Wouldn't matter, since it headspaces on the rim.

This could be pretty fun...particularly for a guy like me who has a Huskvarna 9.3x57 already... .

Not a thing I've ever thought about before, so congratulations, everyone...

Dennis

What a thread.

A bit out of my league, as my two number 3s are in 221 Remington and 223 Remington.

I was going to suggest the 6mm Lee Navy if something a bit different is desired.

6.5x45-70

Uses standard reamer and dies, not expensive custom ones.

6.5 Remington reamer chambered short, for about a 2 inch cartridge length. This gets rid of the belt and makes for a smaller head size to better match the brass.

6.5 Remington dies shortened to match.

Brass from 45-70 necked down.

PS 264 Win Mag reamer & dies might work better. Have to measure brass and reamer to see the actual dimensions.

I danged near bought one of those yesterday!
it's on a Baikal break action, nice low pressured round, the one I was looking at is actually based on the 45/70 case, but it ends up being run through a 6.5/284 die to finish up.
Cat

What about a 348 Win.;large rimmed cartridge? Cases would be costly.

The problem with the 348 is the bullet selection I have several wildcats based on the 348, If my memory serves the 348 is a wildcat based on the 50 express case.

.45-70 case, IIRC.

"Out on a limb" ended 10 or so posts ago.

You guys are out in space now.

1B

1885,

I briefly considered the .348 Win. Surely some bbl manufacturer must make .348 barrels. Tho' I can't see a whole lot of demand... But I decided that if I was to go to a .348, I'd rather it was in a 1885 Win High Wall.

I believe I have finalized my options down to the .25 Krag. I would druther have a 6.5 Krag Improved, but I already own dies for the .25. I'd really not wish to have to order another $100+
set of custom dies. A check on Pac-Nor's website and they offer that chambering. Thus I'd think that's the easiest way to go...

Grasshopper

Pretty sure you will be happy with the 25 krag light recoil and bullets are easy to come by.

Pretty sure the 348 Is Based On The 50 express, Look at the diameter just ahead of the rim.

I have been told many times that I am "so out there" ...
cat