Sorry for another in the trail of "What did I buy post?"(s), but these things happen. I had about 30 seconds to make a decision, decided in 10 seconds, and the deed was done.

So, listed as a pre-64 Winchester 70 in .270 caliber from the early 50's.

The good: Blueing is supposed to be original at 90% or greater, probably closer to 95, but I had a very limited time to look. The bolt is blued. Stock finish appears to be original and intact, and the checkering is still sharp in the grip and the forearm, didn't see any flat spots at all. The screw heads all look clean and the bore is gleaming. Steel butt plate is blued with very faint loss around the edge, but not much. Front sight hood is present. The magazine floor plate has 90% blue, may have few very minor small scratches, but it does not look like the typical carried in the hand rub-off.

The bad: old Weaver scope with two horizontal cross-hairs in a side mount that required the receiver side to be drilled and tapped in the middle. I think the mount is the Pachmayr Lo-Swing rifle scope mount. The mount also goes down below the woodline on the left side, and the stock has been relieved for the scope mount. The stock work has been professionally done, the cut lines in the inleting are clean and no ragged edges. But, I know the cuts to the stock and the extra side taps are a deal-killer for the hardcore collectors. Look like a scope mount set-up for a flip to the side to use the iron sights.

If I had to guess, it's a new purchased single owner rifle (in 1950s) that was set up for East Coast whitetail duty, probably saw the range and the woods for a few trips, and then regulated to the back of the closet for most of it's life.

Limited pictures, and they are terrible. Didn't realize they were so bad from looking at the smart phone screen. Will take much better and post when I pick it up:

I think you've got a great piece of Americana there. The "270 WCF" pre-dates it probably around '-50-'51 as my 1952 version of the same caliber has "270 Winchester" on the barrel, #235XXX. The bluing looks superb. I'd take that baby out after a good bore cleaning and put some 130 gr Nosler AccuBonds thought it and enjoy!

The bluing is very distinctive, congrats on your find.

Very nice model 70 AH64, hunt and enjoy! I will tell you that the collector value was taken out with the extra holes on side of receiver, A&C and several other, Griffin and Howe are the first that come to mind were big on drilling the mod 70's, hunt and enjoy but I hope you were able to buy taking into account the extra holes. Thanks for your help on the Docter scope, the USA folks that I bought the elevation turret from is going to help me get her back up to snuff, I think something happened during shipping. very best to you my friend WinPoor

WillyP - please send me a PM on the scope, and if there was a out-of-pocket cost.

I knew the collector was gone when they drilled the side, and cut the wood, but it was too nice to pass. I like the way Kitch put it: "It's a piece of Americana" and a bit of a time capsule of by-gone days and ways.

I'll shoot some better pictures this evening or tomorrow in good light.

Extra holes do suck hind tit, but other than that, it looks like an excellent rifle. I'd still take one like that over a new manufactured rifle.

According to Rule's book,that rifle was made in January 1950. EXCELLENT FIND/BUY!

Yup, I would have bought it also over a new one, looks like a very nice rifle.

Agreed - vintage blued steel and American walnut do appeal...

Picked it up after dark, so had to wait for daylight to get better photos:













Pachmeyer swing mount with Weaver KV in 2.5 and 5, with a dual horizontal crosshair, both appear to be period correct:

[img]http://i1077.photobucket.com/a...-AE3C-8553156874E2_zpsdpqkdhim.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1077.photobucket.com/a...-B3CF-CEC7177BC06C_zpssch6yja8.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1077.photobucket.com/a...-9A10-E786BAF69943_zpsfwq0ytfb.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1077.photobucket.com/a...-AF45-BD0141CDCDC8_zpsdr5ruum7.jpg[/img]

I commented yesterday that the bolt was blued, it's not, just the long extractor and the shroud/safety.

The butt-plate screws look like they have been removed, anything I should be checking there? Were the stock serial numbered?

What is the opinion of value of the rifle as it sits?

Stocks were not serialized....perhaps plate was removed to hide owners id in the event of theft. Very nice condition rifle....too bad about the extra holes and modified stock. Maybe $500.00 - $600.00 as a shooter. Rear sight is not correct....should be a 22G.

Pocono's right again. It's common to see the 22G-3c combo taken off and replaced with the marbles 69 or Lyman 16B because the 22G can be sold for around $120.00 and the 16B can be bought for $25.00. About the rear plate: I don't know why someone would take the rear plate off so many times (as evidenced by the screws). However, it's possible that the stock was shortened at one time and someone (lets call him bubba) re-inletted a steel plate back on to the stock. A quick overall length check would confirm this. The stock on this rifle is almost worthless with the wood cut out for the side mount. I've seen similar rifles sell for $500.00 around here. Like I said in a previous post, I'd still by a rifle like this over a new manufacture win model 70. Especially when they are going to be assembled/made in Portugal

AH64, do not sweat a few extra bucks on the sidemount, that is pure classic America, do you know if Abercrombie & Fitch or Griffin & Howe did the work? At the time that was a very popular deal as scopes were not nearly as reliable as they are now, Well heeled hunters had that done to hunt as they could give a good dog dam about collector value 60 years down the road. enjoy a very fine rifle that will wilt a whitetail or just about anything you decide to drop the hammer on in the USA ! Somebody took good care of that gun. very best WinPoor

BSA - what should the length be?

32 1/4" (for the OAL of stock) off the top of my head. I'll check rules book, just to make sure. Length of your rifle should be 44 5/8".

OAL is 44 and 5/8, looking at the screws again, it looks more like the butt plate was sitting on something rough. Like leaning in a corner in a concrete floor, or against the truck fender on a gravel road.

The lower screw looks untouched. The high polish bluing puts a white edge on every corner and edge in the pictures.

Pretty sure the 22G was removed to clear the bell on the Weaver scope when it was installed.

If it's any consolation, I like your rifle. I hope my previous post about it's worth didn't sound insulting. I was just referring to specimens I've seen here locally for sale. However, I've been known to buy pristine pre 64 fwt's for $800.00 as well. Your rifle sure is a beauty and if you are like me, you'll will really enjoy the time spent with it out in the woods. Winpoor knows exactly what I'm talking about here. I'm thinking your new rifle is going to be a shooter too. My pre 64 fwt really impressed the heck out of me yesterday. I shot it side by side with a newer 270 fwt that just couldn't hang in the accuracy department. Even though it is the pushfeed model which is supposed to be more inherently accurate than the old CRF model.




You are probably correct. I've done the same thing.

No offense taken - I was asking for an honest assessment of value. I don't play with enough with current values of Model 70 Winchesters to know what the market is. I watch the fieascos in the Classified over pricing and would prefer to avoid being "that guy".

It will get a range trip and we will see how she does.

Appreciate the input.

I look forward to hearing about the range trip. I always bring a pre 64 of some flavor when I go. Good luck with yours..

I don't like the the scope mounting either but what a nice gun! I don't think it would take too many times to mess up those butt screw heads, just the right guy with the wrong screw driver.

Butt plates just about always show wear ahead of everything else, usually the top round and top screw show the worse wear, that is how they were propped up against the tree by the campfire or in the corner either at the camp of in the corner at home.No biggie I have had my smith bead blast and ceracoat several in midnight blue, they look really nice and the first thing you do not look at when you pick the 70 up is a blem! The more I look at your side mount the cooler it looks, almost that German over engineering they were so famous for! very best WinPoor

AH, Ive got a gun story for you,yall. Late last year or early this year My wife and I were up at 2 or 3:00 am trying to get her pain under control, all I could do during this 8 mos was try and be a great caregiver, trade Winchesters on the computer and run to the farm to feed,checkup cattle,feed farm bulldogs check water well etc. As you guys know I am DIEHARD Winchester but on another gun website I ran across a FN, early 50's commercial Belgian made .270 win, the gun had a Ziss claw mounts and a German 4 or 6 power scope, the gun had a carved stock, by carved I mean fox and otter (I guess) anyhow the Gun grew on me AND my wife liked it as we learned more about the piece, An Austrian had done the stock work, it was one of the finer Mauser actions, it was in a cal. that for some unknown reason I had shot pals guns but had never owned one of. Well I got on a site to research and ask opinions and I got from 'its a piece of cat shat to 'hey guy the mounts and scope is worth the money!', folks told me to use the stock as firewood to hey man cool!
I bought the gun, after trying 3 factory ammos it is almost a solid 1 " gun, the stock has really grown on me, the trigger is unlike any Ive ever used! you take a good bit of slack out,easy to feel, then take the breath and slow pull, it breaks just like the old timers say a small rod of glass. This gun will be the gun I take my first freezer buck with this year. I will not sell Winchesters to get into Mauser but I love to think of the fellow who carved stock, what it hunted in Europe even the US Military guy who brought it home to the USA ! Its got a Hensoldt-Wetzlar Dialytan scope, it has a top knurled elevation knob with a knurled set screw lock. I have never seen such a sensitive ,little bit goes a long way adjustment in my life.Wind age was dead nuts thank goodness as a couple of engraved screws move that. I will take some photos but love the gun in spite of all the ney say, poo pooers.I really doubt I will sell the gun as my wife helped me decide on 'go for it' Very best WinPoor

Winchester lovers, I can bust a 350 yard crows azz with my 59'swift but I cannot for the world take a good gun photo! anyhow here are a few of my new to me .270.

That's a saaaawwweeeeetttt! .270 and really like the toes too.

Therein lies the problem, the 270 has a lot more life left in it than the toes! very best WinPoor

Yeah,the rifle does look better than the toes.

Here is a FN Mauser .270 Win.




It has a Leupold 3-9x on it.

It's a funny .270. Tried 130 gr Nosler Partition/Ballistic Tip,hated them. Went to a 150 gr Nosler Partition BINGO! Loves those.

Toe fettish huh .. Boy, winpoor was right about his photos .. Love the 270 though!! Elegant European craftsmanship.. I can see why your wife gave the ok to buy it..

BSA,those toes are worth mentioning. My wife and I have taken pics with our shoes in the pics.

I have never seen so many stamps and proof marks on one gun in my life. if anyone has access to date codes my SN 6699 easy to remember, an old timer tells me its a C ring early 50's gun, points and shoots real nice freehanded. I will have to try the 150 gr. ammo as I grabbed a box of Rem 130 corelocs, Doubletap 130 accubonds, and Hunting Shack 130 gr berger VLD's in 130. so far rems group inch, Double tap had 2 touching and one off right, I may have well pulled it as the trigger is taking a ittle getting used to.I did not try the Bergers yet.very best winpoor

I know what you are talking about. That's a military 2 stage that's been refined i'm sure. It would be cool to know the full story or history of your rifle..

Agreed,those rings and mounts are interesting.

Spendy too. I was on another forum and some were saying the Zeiss claw mounts are worth about $1,500 with a similar scope..

$1500 good grief that's a bunch of moola for those.

WP - that's a nice one, I'd have been tempted as well. First, hope your wife is better, and that life is closer to normal for both of you. Prayers sent.

I was stationed in Germany and one of last classes to get certified as a German hunter through the American Rod and Gun Clubs. The beauty of Germany and Austria were the little town master gunsmiths and the works of art they could turn out. Woodcarving on the stocks is old school talent, and a dying art in Europe, fewer and fewer new guilds are willing to dedicate the time to learn the art.

Your Hensoldt-Wetzlar Dialytan scope is a good one and should out-last you. The scope is most likely silver-soldered into the scope half rings. Depending on the rings, most were just over half circles for tension on the scope, the solder did the rest of the holding. Just watch the scope over time, I've seen one or two shoot loose.

The mounts and installation will set you back $500-750ish today on a rifle. The Mauser was made for mounts, the drilling firearms require the mounts to be cut into the barrel, which is where the work gets stupid expensive.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, you can't create that rifle today without a large investment, and a long search to find the components.

AH64, I can assure you my wife is in a much better place than she was a short week after we picked that gun out.I lost her Feb 6th. Im the one left here on earth lost as a new born calf. Thanks for the prayers all the same, Im going to try and spend the rest of my days living well enough to join her one day. very best WinPoor