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I am sure a number of folks here will take issue with the article below, but I applaud the Forest Service for their stand on this issue and I hope the BLM follows suite. ATV misuse is out of control in my opinion and I hope this will improve the hunting experience for those of us that use our own two feet and/or horses.

You guys know where I stand on this issue, what is your take on it?






The U.S. Forest Service has begun imposing travel restrictions on ATVs and other off-road vehicles nationally, ending their long-standing permission to go almost anywhere.

The move marks the end of the principle that forest lands are "open unless designated closed" to motor vehicles and instead establishes that they are "closed unless designated open."

"People would say, 'Well, look, there's a two-track there, and it's been there for a long time,"' said Paul Cruz, recreation staff officer for the Arapahoe National Forest. "That won't work anymore. Now, the burden is on the user to have a ... map and to follow it."

That means that off-road vehicles are allowed only on trails marked on new travel maps being drawn up for each national forest - in some cases excluding popular existing routes.

The growing popularity of off-road vehicles has proved to be a difficult trend to control for land managers, who say the growing network of illegal trails created by wayward motor vehicles is among their biggest problems.

By 2003, there were 14,000 miles of such "user-created" trails in the national forests.

Annual sales of all-terrain vehicles continue strongly after more than tripling since 1995, with more than 10 million four-wheelers and dirt bikes now registered.

Former Forest Service Chief Dale Bosworth observed that if even 1 percent or 2 percent of ATV users go off route, "the cumulative impact is tremendous."

"You don't have to go far to see it. I could show you slide after slide," he said, "tire tracks running through wetlands, riparian areas churned into mud, banks collapsed and bleeding into streams ... and sensitive meadows turned into dust bowls."

For years, motorists have been able to travel off route as long as they weren't damaging the land, said Loren Paulson, recreation staff officer for the Grand Mesa National Forest.

"Obviously, ATVs sort of made things a little more difficult because they can go a lot more places," he said.

"You get the first couple of riders, and they just bend over the grass," Paulson said. "Someone else sees those tracks, and they follow them, and 50 vehicles later you have what appears to be a route. And how can you give a ticket to the 50th person?"

As staff members at each district and forest across the country craft motor-vehicle travel maps over the next two years, the routes become official - either open or closed - and violators can be ticketed.

One problem: The maps, which will be made available online, at ranger stations and in local outdoor-oriented businesses, are printed in black and white and don't show many landmarks, making navigation difficult.

The new federal travel rule was established in 2005 but so far has been applied only in a few national forests such as the Grand Mesa in western Colorado.

The changes take effect in each district as soon as the maps become available, though some aren't scheduled to be completed until 2010, possibly creating a patchwork of varying rules when trails cross boundary lines.

So far, the Forest Service has closed 2 million acres that have been open generally to cross- country travel.

The agency is ultimately seeking to restrict motor vehicles to designated routes on all 193 million acres, officials say.

In Colorado, where an estimated 877,000 people take ATV trips each year, only the Grand Mesa National Forest has completed its maps, in part because it had an existing travel-management plan in place.

To conservationists seeking environmental protection and quiet forests, the new rules offer relief from off-road vehicles running everywhere.

"Vehicles had essentially unregulated use of the national forests," said Andy Stahl, executive director of Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics. "For the most part, it's been free range for ATVs."

Even many four-wheeler groups acknowledge that specifically designated motor-vehicle routes are needed to stem abuse.

"All the people I've had contact with, by and large, think this is appropriate," said Jack Welch, president of the Blue Ribbon Coalition, an advocacy organization for motorized users.

Both sides, however, are concerned over which trails make the lists of official routes.

In some cases, fairly recent user-created routes are being included, and in others, traditional paths are being overlooked, according to ATV groups and conservationists.

On the Uncompahgre Plateau, land managers tried to compromise, allowing informal routes that "made sense" and that passed a lengthy criteria list, including wildlife and erosion concerns, Paulson said.

Meanwhile, some spurs, shortcuts and routes that ventured into environmentally sensitive areas have been closed.

"No one is going to be 100 percent happy," Paulson said. "A lot of the public was saying: 'I've driven this route for 30 years.' And the other side wanted them closed."

Staff writer Steve Lipsher can be reached at 970-513-9495 or slipsherdenverpost.com.


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An ATV is a tool that has it's time; however IME they generally bring out the worst in most people. Glad to see this direction.

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+1. here in the west they are overused and damage land that takes lifetimes to regenerate.



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I agree, ATV's are great tools when used correctly, but things can get ugly quickly when they get misused. Unethical hunters are unethical hunters, period! But they can take their craft to a whole new level on a tool like an ATV. To emphasize this point I witnessed a horrible scene on an elk hunt a few years back. First off, I should point out I am not vilifying ATV users. I have personally used them in the past for tasks such as hauling supplies to and from camp and think they serve a very useful purpose.

Anyway, I was on horseback in the flattops of Colorado and I watched a couple guys on ATV�s chase a herd of elk across a big basin. By the way, this basin contained no roads and was only accessible by hiking and pack trails, so God only knows how they got their ATV�s into this huge meadow. Anyway, these guys were harassing a herd of about 50 cows and calves when they started shooting from their ATV�s. From what I could tell they hit one cow in the back leg and she stumbled a bit. She couldn�t keep up with the rest of the herd so they shot at her about 10 more times before she finally dropped. Who knows how many times she was hit but they broke her down over the course of a few minutes all while driving around her in circles. She was finally stopped (barley able to stand) in the middle of this meadows when these two guys drove up to her a finished her off. They both jumped off their ATV�s and gave have each other a high-five and then let out this huge bellow that probably scared every elk for 20 miles. The scene was so repulsive, I almost puked on myself. I was so pissed off I almost approach these two idiots, but thought better of it knowing I might end up like their elk. Anyway, I don�t blame ATV�s, but it would have been very difficult to reproduce that same scene on foot, or on horseback for that matter�����������


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Originally Posted by Poot Peak
Who knows how many times she was hit but they broke her down over the course of a few minutes all while driving around her in circles. She was finally stopped (barley able to stand) in the middle of this meadows when these two guys drove up to her a finished her off. They both jumped off their ATV�s and gave have each other a high-five and then let out this huge bellow that probably scared every elk for 20 miles. �����������





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The bastids... grin


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I think it's long overdue. ATVs have their place, and there are a lot of places where they're legal. And lots of guys who use them responsibly. But nothing burns my ass more than to haul myself back in somewhere where they're not allowed only to have them drive by anyway. I've seen places where the forest service has put up signs, log barriers, and fences, and some guys go right around 'em.



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I mostly despise ATV's... never been so disgusted as to hit the backcountry in AK seeing the damage done by ATV's. They certainly have their place and I've used them but it seems that most that do use them also misuse them... go figure.


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But I just bought one of those contraptions you put on the back of your ATV that loads the deer for you. Now how am I going to get the darned thing out?? I'll have to buy me a sling for old betsy now too as my gun boot will be useless.

ATV riders have done it to themselves, just couldn't follow that "Tread Lightly" theme. No sympathy for ATVs here.


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Originally Posted by Brad
The bastids... grin



Dirty bastids at that!!!grin


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First good thing I've heard out of the USFS in a long time.


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I have no problem with guys using these machines, as long as they do so ethicly and within the law. I hate road hunters with a passion, and these are becoming the next generation of road hunting vehicles. I have resisted the temptation to buy one so far, but as I get older, the temptation is there. I've never had anyone help me hump a deer out of the woods. I figure I shot it-I'll gut it- and I'll get it out of the woods. Hunting time is a precious commodity, and always in short supply. I've never felt it was my right to take away from someone else's hunt by having them help me get my deer out of the woods. I still take pride in the fact that I get up earlier than most of the guys, and hunt back in the spots the lazier hunters don't want to walk into. I know the further in I go, the tougher the drag's gonna be. When the long haul is done though, it's a really good kind of exhaustion to experience.


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The rumor mill has it, that 50 inch wide atv's will be allowed on the new trail system where I go. Now the side-by-sides are going to be cut loose up there,too, if true. I do have to say, that the usfs has been cracking down on off-trail use. $50 fine for retreiving an elk off trail. Most guys will gladly pay the piddly 50 to avoid any manual pack work..........Don

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This theme is ringing up here too.
The slobs that associate themselves with the ATV users have ruined it for rest.
I am reluctent to jump on the band wagon for more restrictions since like always it's the mis behaving portion who wreck it for the rest, sound familiar, it is just the same scenario the anti gun folk use to paint all of us firearm owners with the same brush.
But on the other hand I've seen first hand what mis use of ATV's has crated, I have issues with them at my work, and no measure of signage or barriers seems to matter to these morons.
Dont let it bother you that you are crating an errosion issue on a water containment structure. Dont let it bother you that someone has to pay to repair the damage from your fun. Dont let an ever increasing power bill stand in the way of common sense.
The sad truth is something has to be done.
The sadder reality is they have wrecked it for those who are responsable users.


Last edited by Portsider284; 08/27/07.

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That's the center of the entire question: Will/can it be enforced, given the large amount of FS land, small number of enforcement personnel, and relatively tiny amount of the fines?

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Mr. Poot Peak:
Sir, I would say that was one sorry tale. Scenes such as that are pretty tough to stomach aren�t they?
I was on horseback riding Crown range one time, and had heard a shot 5 minutes or so before hand. I rode up on 2 guys who were glassing across a small draw. They had a rifle set up on a bi-pod pointing in the direction of a muley doe standing all hunched up, obviously gut-shot. When I asked why they didn�t finish the job, they responded something to the effect of they were hoping a buck would see the doe, come out and they could fill buddies tag as well!
They didn�t have quads, but as I've related, rectal orifices come afoot sometimes too.
We are trying to get a handle on ATV�s up here as well.
Unfortunately, our situation is quite similar to the one Mr. Mule Deer pointed out. We�ve got so few Conservation Officers patrolling such large territories, I�m not sure rules would have any effect on destructive riders who are ruining it for all riders.
I do hope they make some headway on your Federal Lands though, who knows, we may follow suit up here if it proves effective for you
All the best to you in saving what is left of any wild land.
Dwayne


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Finally some GOOD news. CB

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Originally Posted by Poot Peak
I am sure a number of folks here will take issue with the article below, but I applaud the Forest Service for their stand on this issue and I hope the BLM follows suite. ATV misuse is out of control in my opinion and I hope this will improve the hunting experience for those of us that use our own two feet and/or horses.

You guys know where I stand on this issue, what is your take on it?






The U.S. Forest Service has begun imposing travel restrictions on ATVs and other off-road vehicles nationally, ending their long-standing permission to go almost anywhere.

The move marks the end of the principle that forest lands are "open unless designated closed" to motor vehicles and instead establishes that they are "closed unless designated open."

"People would say, 'Well, look, there's a two-track there, and it's been there for a long time,"' said Paul Cruz, recreation staff officer for the Arapahoe National Forest. "That won't work anymore. Now, the burden is on the user to have a ... map and to follow it."

That means that off-road vehicles are allowed only on trails marked on new travel maps being drawn up for each national forest - in some cases excluding popular existing routes.

The growing popularity of off-road vehicles has proved to be a difficult trend to control for land managers, who say the growing network of illegal trails created by wayward motor vehicles is among their biggest problems.

By 2003, there were 14,000 miles of such "user-created" trails in the national forests.

Annual sales of all-terrain vehicles continue strongly after more than tripling since 1995, with more than 10 million four-wheelers and dirt bikes now registered.

Former Forest Service Chief Dale Bosworth observed that if even 1 percent or 2 percent of ATV users go off route, "the cumulative impact is tremendous."

"You don't have to go far to see it. I could show you slide after slide," he said, "tire tracks running through wetlands, riparian areas churned into mud, banks collapsed and bleeding into streams ... and sensitive meadows turned into dust bowls."

For years, motorists have been able to travel off route as long as they weren't damaging the land, said Loren Paulson, recreation staff officer for the Grand Mesa National Forest.

"Obviously, ATVs sort of made things a little more difficult because they can go a lot more places," he said.

"You get the first couple of riders, and they just bend over the grass," Paulson said. "Someone else sees those tracks, and they follow them, and 50 vehicles later you have what appears to be a route. And how can you give a ticket to the 50th person?"

As staff members at each district and forest across the country craft motor-vehicle travel maps over the next two years, the routes become official - either open or closed - and violators can be ticketed.

One problem: The maps, which will be made available online, at ranger stations and in local outdoor-oriented businesses, are printed in black and white and don't show many landmarks, making navigation difficult.

The new federal travel rule was established in 2005 but so far has been applied only in a few national forests such as the Grand Mesa in western Colorado.

The changes take effect in each district as soon as the maps become available, though some aren't scheduled to be completed until 2010, possibly creating a patchwork of varying rules when trails cross boundary lines.

So far, the Forest Service has closed 2 million acres that have been open generally to cross- country travel.

The agency is ultimately seeking to restrict motor vehicles to designated routes on all 193 million acres, officials say.

In Colorado, where an estimated 877,000 people take ATV trips each year, only the Grand Mesa National Forest has completed its maps, in part because it had an existing travel-management plan in place.

To conservationists seeking environmental protection and quiet forests, the new rules offer relief from off-road vehicles running everywhere.

"Vehicles had essentially unregulated use of the national forests," said Andy Stahl, executive director of Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics. "For the most part, it's been free range for ATVs."

Even many four-wheeler groups acknowledge that specifically designated motor-vehicle routes are needed to stem abuse.

"All the people I've had contact with, by and large, think this is appropriate," said Jack Welch, president of the Blue Ribbon Coalition, an advocacy organization for motorized users.

Both sides, however, are concerned over which trails make the lists of official routes.

In some cases, fairly recent user-created routes are being included, and in others, traditional paths are being overlooked, according to ATV groups and conservationists.

On the Uncompahgre Plateau, land managers tried to compromise, allowing informal routes that "made sense" and that passed a lengthy criteria list, including wildlife and erosion concerns, Paulson said.

Meanwhile, some spurs, shortcuts and routes that ventured into environmentally sensitive areas have been closed.

"No one is going to be 100 percent happy," Paulson said. "A lot of the public was saying: 'I've driven this route for 30 years.' And the other side wanted them closed."

Staff writer Steve Lipsher can be reached at 970-513-9495 or slipsherdenverpost.com.





Having used atv's exstensively on forest service for years. I call bullshit on the above fairy tale.The exception being colorado and it has been mismanaged,with roads taking you to 12000ft in many cases.

The bottom line is,since 1985 the usfs has had type a,b and c
areas. type a was travel on roads only,type b was seasonal travel and type c was off road travel without damage to resources.Prior to 1985 the majority of national forest was wide open to any manor of travel. So what did the forest service expect would happen.

The only damage I've seen in the type c areas,is trails made along fences and the occasional asswipe that has to mud bog in riparian areas.I hear about all the illegal travel and trails and [bleep] ,but actually finding them is another story.The majority of these stories are propagated by the forest service and a$$holes that can't afford an atv.

I live in an area with both a major orv complex of trails and alot of wilderness area. Every atv trail has its original origin as either a fire trail,used for firefighting and regular roads made by jeeps and improved by the forest service.

The current game the usfs is playing,is shutting down regular roads. The USFS is doing nothing but [bleep] the guy who depends on his pick up to get to his area.I've confronted these forest service pricks on it in the field and most just shrug and laugh and claim its more meaningless federal crap.I talked to a game warden last week and he claimed that every time they get major road closures,they get guys taking the prime cuts of game animals and leaving the rest.He also said they seldom close any areas that actually provide big game habitat.

I've sat through dozens of multiple use meetings held by the USFS with just about every party involved from ranchers,orv,hunters and the sierra club. The bottom line is the forest service started out closing roads and delisting them.This costs money. So their current scheme is to leave roads without marked designation.That way they can just hand out fines.I pay 15 dollars along with everyone else in wyoming that operates an orv on forest service and the maps they provided this year aren't even readable.


The bottom line is if the forest service would simply just keep there exsisting roads in place you wouldn't see abuse. All these new rules are going to do is screw legitimate recreationists out of the woods,wether they be hunters,hikers or anybody using national forest..

The majority of the pricks that support closing all the motorized roads,have horses. And these same pricks tear up as much if not more of the national forest then atvs do,along with over grazing.
The above quote included a usfs prick claiming he could show clip after clip of atv damages. Well I provided an hour of video and around 400 plus digital photos of horses damaging and destroying trail systems,trees and riparian areas. The response from the forest service, is we know its happening but we can't get support in shutting it down.Because of the outfitter lobby and grazing lobbyists.

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Sledder, I guess its motorcycles with side cars that I been tracking on gated, kelly ditched roads and high banking on road cuts. Ive seen bicycle, motorcycle, atv and vehicle ruts but Ive never seen a horse rut,you make a rut when you walk? Overgrazing and destroying habitat, horses! If the greens could make a case they would have them off public land like they have done to cattle & sheep and with cattle and sheep its a emotional not a fact based issue. Horses were and are used to build and maintain the trails in the back country. So when you drive to the end of a road you have a trail to get you to the top. danny

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sledder, I'm one of the pricks with horses....... And get damn sick of motorheads coming past my tent at 2:00 in the am to go down a closure drainage (not even a trail...) to sneak their meat out in the dark, with little chance of getting caught. They know damn well they ain't allowed to even go off trail, but the fines are less than it would cost to pay me to pack for 'em, or ANY other alternative to honest hard work. If you can't get it out legally, don't fuggin' go down there in the first place. Oh yeah, I bring in feed (weedfree) and highline according to fs recommendations, so there is no tree damage or overgrazing.....Less damage from my horses to a wet, muddy trail, than ONE slip-slidin' motobuggy. And I could afford a atv, IF I COULD STAND TO BE AROUND 'EM, or wanted one. Sure glad you don't hunt where I do. Don

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