Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Steve Dogzapper Question on 120 BT

Steve,

You've mentioned the use of the 7mm/.284" Nosler 120g Ballistic Tip a couple of times, and at higher velocities than I would have thought usable for a non-premium - 3200 fps or so. Can you describe some typical shots and ranges, please - ribs, skull, etc., penetration, action on bone contact? An estimate of max recommended impact velocity in deer and elk would also be very helpful. Thanks.

Jaywalker,

This has been covered many times in the past at the Campfire. A search will give you lots of info.

To summarize: I started using the Nosler .284" 120-grain Ballistic Tip several years ago. A friend of mine who worked at Nosler at the time told me that the bullet was a total flop with varmint hunters (duhhhhh ), but that the rifle metal silhouette shooters used a zillion of them.

Nosler got complaints from the rifle silhouette shooters because the bullet was too frangible to consistently tip over the 500 meter ram. Because the rifle silhouette use was seemingly the only market for the 7-120, Nosler made the jacket considerably heavier than the original design.

This change was intended to satisfy the silhouette shooters complaints, but an inintended consequence was that they unwittingly made one heck of a big game bullet.

The first I heard of it was my friend at Nosler was shooting California wild boars through both shoulders (both gristle plates) with the 120 in a 7-08. Full penetration and very dead pigs!!!

Please bear in mind that the silhouette story above is purely legend, but if you will split a 7-120, you will find the jacket is waaaay heavy. Actually, it resembles the .338 BTs, which are heavy and are sure killers on larger critters.

Down to your question, "What has Dogzapper shot with the 120s?" Answer: A bit of stuff.

I've killed a couple of 6X6 bull elk. Not big ones, but around 290 B&C and decent bodies for five year olds. One was shot from above, looking away at 375 yards, the bullet entered the spine behind the shoulder and was found under the hide of the chest. Expanded to .75" or so and the recovered bullet weighs about 100 grains (it's around here someplace and it's a big lead and copper ball.

Second bull was 400ish. Not to be fancy, I shot the bull through the center of the shoulder. The bullet broke both shouders and was recovered under the far hide. The bullet is identical to the first bull's bullet.

Both of these were killed with the 7-08 Ackley.

Other kills with the gun and bullet were a large Montana mule buck at way too close, peeking though a juniper tree at first light. Horns were big and so was he and I had to hit the only open thing I could see ... an eyeball. And I did.

Bullet went clear through the head and didn't break the skull. Exited leaving a one-inch hole.

Another Montana mulie was probably the largest-bodied mule I've ever shot in Montana. He was aged at 9 1/2 years in Great Falls game stop (by a PhD professor of big game). I knew the buck intimately and had not been able to kill him the three previous years. I caught him in a herd of over 100 does, with head low and his dick hanging out. Saw him at over 400 yards in the dusk and made a running open field stalk ... closed to 205 yards and shot him a little too high behind the shoulder. Spined him, dead right there, bullet fully penetrated leaving a 2" exit.

There's a few more deer with the 7-08 and some antelope, but the tale is always the same.

I've also used the 120 in the .280 Ackley @ 3,370 fps.

Shot a moose one morning with it. Range was 91 yards and the three year old dumbly stood in the middle of a farm two-track. I shot him under the chin, slightly to my right, trying to break the spine upon exit. One or both carotids were broken, C-2 vertabrae was totally missing and the bullet exited leaving a two-inch hole. For all I know, it may still be in low orbit of the earth.

Mickey Moose died right there.

I've shot many antelope with the bullet in the .280 Ackley. Ranges from 100 to over 500 yards. Nver missed a got with it and never shot twice. Total penetration from most any angle, except for one old and large buck that I shot fully in the chest and recovered the bullet (deadliest mushroom in the woods) right next to his bunghole. I guess you'd call it full-penetration of a goat, minus one-eighth inch.

Lotsa mule deer and whitetails. Normally full penetration. Don't remember ever recovering a bullet from a deer. Exits usually rin one to two inches.

You ask about maximum recommended impact velocity on deer and elk. Heck I don't know, I just go out there and kill stuff.

I don't know that I'd recommend it on elk of moose. I have a habit of hunting deer with the tags for big critters also in my pocket. I carry 120s and sometimes magic happens. If I was purposely hunting elk or mooses only, I'd probably up-bullet to a 139 Hornady Interlocked in both the 7SGLC and the .280 Ackely.

Or for really big stuff, like the Asian water buffalo I killed a couple of years ago, I used the 154 Hornady Interlocked in my .280. I severed both carotids and created a buffalo blood fountain that was quite beautiful.

Anyway, I've written way too much. Use it or don't, it's not a matter of honor or pride. I use the 120 and am not prejudiced and find it kills the schit out of stuff without ruining a lot of meat.

In truth, the 120 Ballistic is considerably "harder" and in my experience will out-penetrate the 140 Ballistic Tip.

I also find the 139 Hornady Interlocked (plain, cheap cup-n-core) to be one heck of a great bullet.

Those of us who love medium sized 7mm cartridges are truly blessed with a plethora of excellent big game bullets.

I'm tired of writing and have to get to church. Hope this helps.

Steve

Thanks, Steve. I remembered the history of the 120, but didn't recall the forensics, particularly its capability on bone. It's been my favorite for my 7mm-08 for several years, but I've shot no elk with it.

The little sucker hangs right in there and stays true out at longer ranges too- I guess because it has a suprisingly good BC.

I was just leaving, actually walking out the door and Karen got a call. She's 65 years old TODAY (Happy Birthday to Karen). Anyway, I checked this thread again.

No problem, I'm happy to help.

I think the message here is that the 120 BT is my go-to bullet for deer and antelope in the 7s. But sometimes a big animal shows up, one for which I have an available tag, and the 120 has never failed me on the moose and elk.

Would I carry 120 BTs on an elk-only or moose-only hunt? Prolly not. I'd undoubtedly opt for the 139-grain Hornady Interlocked. I've killed all sorts of beasties with the Interlockeds and it works well.

There are lots of folks here who hate Hornady Interlocks, and that's fine. We should always respect experience and if their experience is that Interlockeds suck, then we should take that into account and profit from their time in the field.

My personal experience with fairly light-weight Hornady Interlocks is that they are dependable, they penetrate like crazy, they mushroom beatifully and they hammer critters wonderfully. My experience is over a couple hundred animals, so it's more than a few and less than a lot.

Call me a Hornady Interlocked SLUT (Steve, you're a Hornady Interlocked SLUT!!! )

K's off the birthday phone. Off I go.

Happy killin', my friend.

Steve

Heavy jacket, enough BC and super penetration ... and it kills schit.

Steve

Getting caught like that has been the demise of many a good man.

Steve,
Would you use it on Oregon black bears? A big one is seldom over 300#.

YUP. Without even thinking twice.

The 120 Ballistic waaaay out-pentrates the 140 Ballistic and goodness knows I've whacked lots with the 140s.

My biggest Oregon bear, the big black bugger you saw on our wall, was heavier than that. His carcass, when I finally got out of the bush, weighed 378 pounds. His hide and head weighed a bunch and it's hard not to believe that his live weight was less than 500 pounds.

Still, having shot a fair number of critters with the 120, I would not have a problem shooting an Oregon black bear with it.

Hope this helps,

Steve

Steve,

120grBT vs 140gr BT penetration test.

This would be a good test for some stacked phonebooks.

Both are great bullets IME, I prefer the 140s though.

MtnHtr

MtnHtr,

I've only recovered three 120s. Two from largish bull elk and one from an antelope that I shot totally end-to-end (bullet was next to his bunghole).

From the several critters I've whacked with the 120, I have the impression that it out-penetrates the 140, though I've done no testing in media of any type. That is, other than the ultimate testing media, which would be living flesh, bone and blood.

I agree with you, they are both great bullets.

Steve

Friend Steve,

I have yet to try a 120 Balistic,but it is on my to do list. I have blasted lots of stuff with the 140s,a buch of deer and some big nasty hogs.

One of the saddest things that I have had to do was shoot my Tennesse Walker,Stormin Norman when he broke his leg. Used what I had in the truck,a 140 Balistic tip. Instant kill through his big head into his neck.

I also shot some balistic tips through cresote timbers,a very touch expansion medium. They will go through 6 inch timbers like they aren't even there. Ditto Hornady interlocks as well.

I always smile when somebody worries about either of these bullets coming apart on a deer bone. If my life depended upon it,I could use balistic tips to break the neck of just about anything on the planet short of pachyderms or whales,but if either comes to Alabama and iniates a serious charge,I wouldn't want to be the tembo or shamu.


Belated Happy Birthday to your beloved.

RD

Friend Steve,

I'd hate to see the unabridged version.

(sorry couldn't resist)

BTW, I've killed a buncha shiat with the 120 based on Steve's recommendations a good while back and it definitely is a wicked little bastid.

The 120 BT has served me and my son well in a 7mm-08. It downs whitetail deer with boring regularity.

Here's a couple pictures of one I recovered (the only one I've ever recovered) from a doe this past November. No core left, but plenty of shank. The doe was DRT.

Uh-oh.... never should have posted a picture of cup-core seperation....

More information on that particular situation requested.

I blamed poor bullet performance based on 5 bullets out of Sierra 140 7mm's and switched to Partitions, actually a friend gave me a box after I told him my results.

Deer#1, small forked muledeer standing 75 yds broadside, poked him beind the shoulder mid height. He bounded a few steps and gave me the opposite side broadside, was snowing heavy and I assumed I missed. Placed another same placed opposite side, and he dropped, probably 20 seconds after shot#1. No pass-thru, but turned his heart inside out.

Deer #2, running muledeer, 100 yds slight angled away. Shot 1 same location as first deer, pass thru, second shot 10" back almost broadside, passthru, 3rd shot lead him even less, broke his backbone at the front of hip and he dropped. Same bullet, load, the following day. 280 rem at 2900 fps. All 3 shots in 10 seconds, which I have practiced most of my hunting career on running plywood deer competition.

Bottom line, the bullets did what they were supposed to, I just hadn't considered deer don't drop like a rock in all shot placements....

Allen

Okay, well my son shoots handloaded 120 gr. BT's (3020 fps mv) in a Ruger Hawkeye 7mm-08. Last November he shot a whitetail doe at a distance of 30 yards max. She was slightly quartering towards us. The bullet just clipped the rear of the right shoulder about 2/3's of the way up. It hit part of the scapula and took out a rib on the way in and went through a rib on the off side before stopping under the hide. She fell right where she stood and never moved again......which I tend to like.

There were two firsts with this kill. It was the first 120 BT we've recovered and it was the first deer that we've shot with one that was DRT. The others ran a little ways, but never more than 25 yards or so. Heck, one doe ran towards us and died right under our deer stand. None, however, have taken more than one shot.

So, even though the core separated from the jacket in this one case, I'm still liking this bullet a lot.