The ATF can look at the serial number on the firearm and go right to the manufacturer and find out what distributor had it for sale to the dealers. So then the ATF calls the distributor to find out who he sold it to. The dealer (FFL holder) is required by law to enter that firearm in his bound book as an acquisition and enters the gun as a disposition when he sells it. From there on the owner of the firearm is where it supposedly is. So the gun owner sells/ or gives the firearm to anybody and doesn't write down the serial number, he may be the owner of record. And no matter where that firearm ends up, the serial number is still on record. Most of us have sold, traded given guns over the years, and if we were the last owner going by serial number we possibly liable for what ever that firearm did!! If they pass laws and enforce them, somebody will be in trouble & probably be the bad guy. I can't imagine that sh-t actually happening, but the way things are going I wouldn't be surprised. I was a dealer for 40+ years and have seen many changes since I started. I got rid of my license several years ago and and always wonder when one of the hundreds of guns I sold/ received will come back to bite me. Who knows what will happen, but I can't imagine it being good!!
I’d expect BATFE to be scouring shows and online sales to look for folks flipping guns soon after purchase.
\
Everyone needs to just make up fake gun forsale adds, make these fuggers so busy it makes their head spin!!
And when they show up demanding to see the guns you listed for sale do you really think they'll believe the adds are fake, or will they come back with a warrant?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Yep, so is everyone on this site, regardless. The SCOTUS needs to throw out this new "rule". Remember the atf does not make law. What they are attempting is totally unconstitutional. I'm also hoping the Malinowski's sue them for all they are worth, for the stunt they did to Bryan, at o dark thirty. Taping over his security camera (door bell cam), they were there to get rid of him.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Interesting they did nothing with the Auctioneers Exemption. Here are Licensed People in Business some moving 100's of guns or more a year. Do dah, nothing to see here, let's go after J.Q. Taxpayer.
Great, but still, equitable? Hardly.
America is (supposed to be) a Republic, NOT a democracy. Learn the difference, help end the lie. Fear a government that fears your guns.
Trade a gun to your buddy for a car parts, you could be a dealer. NOT TRUE
Give someone a gun for tiling your floor, you could be a dealer.
Loose your job and sell some guns to pay your bills, you could be a dealer.
Buy a gun, don't like it, sell it within 30 days, you could be a dealer.
Sell some guns and loose money, you could be a dealer.
If the AFT says you're a dealer, you're a dealer. Under the new rule you are presumed guilty and must prove your innocence.
Has anyone read the 400+ page rule? Me neither.
Most of the above is not true. See page 12-13 above for safe harbors
There are specific exemptions for liquidating a collection, estates, selling a collectible gun to obtain funds to buy a more collectible gun, etc.
BMT
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
Trade a gun to your buddy for a car parts, you could be a dealer. NOT TRUE
Give someone a gun for tiling your floor, you could be a dealer.
Loose your job and sell some guns to pay your bills, you could be a dealer.
Buy a gun, don't like it, sell it within 30 days, you could be a dealer.
Sell some guns and loose money, you could be a dealer.
If the AFT says you're a dealer, you're a dealer. Under the new rule you are presumed guilty and must prove your innocence.
Has anyone read the 400+ page rule? Me neither.
Most of the above is not true. See page 12-13 above for safe harbors
There are specific exemptions for liquidating a collection, estates, selling a collectible gun to obtain funds to buy a more collectible gun, etc.
BMT
And the lawyers in the video above will tell you there's exceptions to all the safe harbor provision, which is the whole point of make the regulation 466 pages, muddy the water so bad you have no idea when you are, or are not considered a dealer.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
The ATF can look at the serial number on the firearm and go right to the manufacturer and find out what distributor had it for sale to the dealers. So then the ATF calls the distributor to find out who he sold it to. The dealer (FFL holder) is required by law to enter that firearm in his bound book as an acquisition and enters the gun as a disposition when he sells it. From there on the owner of the firearm is where it supposedly is. So the gun owner sells/ or gives the firearm to anybody and doesn't write down the serial number, he may be the owner of record. And no matter where that firearm ends up, the serial number is still on record. Most of us have sold, traded given guns over the years, and if we were the last owner going by serial number we possibly liable for what ever that firearm did!! If they pass laws and enforce them, somebody will be in trouble & probably be the bad guy. I can't imagine that sh-t actually happening, but the way things are going I wouldn't be surprised. I was a dealer for 40+ years and have seen many changes since I started. I got rid of my license several years ago and and always wonder when one of the hundreds of guns I sold/ received will come back to bite me. Who knows what will happen, but I can't imagine it being good!!
I was a dealer for 20 years myself and wasn’t the “rule” that after 10 years you didnt need to keep the 4473 and the bound book?
We might have to be neighbors, but I don’t have to be neighborly. John Chisum
The ATF can look at the serial number on the firearm and go right to the manufacturer and find out what distributor had it for sale to the dealers. So then the ATF calls the distributor to find out who he sold it to. The dealer (FFL holder) is required by law to enter that firearm in his bound book as an acquisition and enters the gun as a disposition when he sells it. From there on the owner of the firearm is where it supposedly is. So the gun owner sells/ or gives the firearm to anybody and doesn't write down the serial number, he may be the owner of record. And no matter where that firearm ends up, the serial number is still on record. Most of us have sold, traded given guns over the years, and if we were the last owner going by serial number we possibly liable for what ever that firearm did!! If they pass laws and enforce them, somebody will be in trouble & probably be the bad guy. I can't imagine that sh-t actually happening, but the way things are going I wouldn't be surprised. I was a dealer for 40+ years and have seen many changes since I started. I got rid of my license several years ago and and always wonder when one of the hundreds of guns I sold/ received will come back to bite me. Who knows what will happen, but I can't imagine it being good!!
I was a dealer for 20 years myself and wasn’t the “rule” that after 10 years you didnt need to keep the 4473 and the bound book?
I got calls several times over the years from the BATF asking who I sold a particular gun to, and I found it kind of humorous that I had to explain to the caller that I no longer had the 4473's since I got rid of them after 20 years. They didn't know the rules obviously. I also had a a couple more calls that I did have the paperwork and fortunately I was able to help them.
So, if I sell the 37 guns I plan on selling and they are sent to an FFL for a NICS check on the buyer this rule would not apply to me? Thanks.
Not enough information. If you bought them with the specific intention of reselling them to make profit, then .gov would probably consider you a dealer. Intent seems to be the key thing.
So, if I sell the 37 guns I plan on selling and they are sent to an FFL for a NICS check on the buyer this rule would not apply to me? Thanks.
Not enough information. If you bought them with the specific intention of reselling them to make profit, then .gov would probably consider you a dealer. Intent seems to be the key thing.
Sure, we all have the "intent" to get bent over the table, when we buy a gun. That's why guys always buy high, and sell low. For fu cks sake..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
So, if I sell the 37 guns I plan on selling and they are sent to an FFL for a NICS check on the buyer this rule would not apply to me? Thanks.
Not enough information. If you bought them with the specific intention of reselling them to make profit, then .gov would probably consider you a dealer. Intent seems to be the key thing.
Sure, we all have the "intent" to get bent over the table, when we buy a gun. That's why guys always buy high, and sell low. For fu cks sake..
Did you buy the gun because you liked it and wanted it, or did you buy it just to flip it for some $$? One is a business move and the other is a hobby. The concept is not difficult.
This is not to say that DOJ won’t abuse the process. I expect they will. People on the far ends of the spectrum will be pretty easy to spot. The weekly gun show/flea market vendor can expect problems. An aging guy selling his old deer gun will be pretty safe. Those in between? Time will tell. You may be assured that Leftists will push the issue as far as judges and juries will allow. Unfortunately, it can still cost thousands to win in court.
