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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Never did anything quite so crazy as blow up a gun, but there was a day when I flat made a mess of a 12.7mm gun with 7.62mm ammo.

I may have learned that from 'Flave.


This 12.7mm gun Dan? (I might bump your old thread, it's a great read)

Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Low stayed, slow was out the window. 80-100 knots(that's faster than a buzzard) now, down the hill, up the hill, and about 250 meters away there lies a freshly dug pit for another 12.7mm. Entrenching tool still laying on the bottom of the pit. Whoops again, call the lead Snake and babble about stock picks, real estate, and cat hunting for a few seconds while I think "Whoa" to my trusty steed and get it turned around for another quick pass back to Hill A. Much to my chagrin as I fly over Hill B, the entrenching tool is gone, and I reported that before telling them that there was now a tripod set up at Hill A and my stuff is getting decidedly weak. Yes, Cobras can duke it out with .50's, the LOH cannot, and .50's will chew a new anal orifice in a chopper...chop chop!

As I went over the position I broke left toward Tiger Mountain and the guns rolled in on Hill A. A tactically awkward situation for me as they were my cover and life line, yet the gun had to be hammered, pure and simple. I knew full well that Hill B probably was set up or very close to it, I was pinned between the Snake's GT line and the mountain, the only path out being over Hill B. Yuckee-poo. The good news was that I had a brand new, never been fired GE Mini-gun hangin' on the left side, and a full load of ammo. I was also below their line of sight for the moment. Any attempt to climb to altitude would have put me in their sights sure as sunrise and voided any advantage I held at the moment. To paraphrase the old Indian saying, 'It was a good day to wet your pants'. I had long since learned that the best defense is truly a good offense, and since I was in the Cav, and certifiably insane since I'd volunteered for this crap, I did the only thing I could do. Charge! I have a long history of being offensive.

Not only can choppers do what planes do, they can do more. And less. A lot of less. Their advantage is that you can literally drag your skids through the grass and even at a leisurely 120 knots you go by pretty quick to a ground based observation. We were almost up to that speed when Hill B reared up a couple of hundred feet above us, a saddle on either side that blocked earthbound view of low level ingress. I used one of those "little less" tricks, called a cyclic climb, or simply pulling back on the stick to trade speed for altitude. Zoom Zoom! The Mini-gun on the LOH was flexible in elevation only, azimuth controlled with the foot pedals, and in the circumstance I'd fully depressed it as I expected to be looking at them through the chin bubble when they came into view. Further, I planed to go negative over the top and hopefully keep the gun on target until nearly overhead at which point I woud dive once again for the safety of lower elevations. Up the hill! Time for one of those famous "time standing still" moments.

The gunner was waiting, his azimuth about 20* off to my left, the other varmint was crouched low with an ammo can at the ready. He fired as he began to swing the gun, and as I replied.

Couple of points on this: 1) The 12.7 has a cyclic rate of fire in the range of 500-700 rounds per minute, it also has a huge hour glass shaped muzzle flash, visible even on bright sunny days. One in five rounds is a tracer, and if anyone asks what they look like, just give 'em your best steely eyed stare and say "basketballs". Big round red basketballs. Every time one goes by you hear a deep sonic crack, then you get 4 more audibles before the next light show. It is REALLY impressive. Tracers don't seem to move really fast when they are heading right at you BTW. At least not until they go past, ZIP-CRACK! They do not go "whoosh" or "whiz" like in the movies. 2) Mini-guns in US Army versions, have a selective fire rate of 2000 or 4000 RPM. At that time they were noted for jamming often when fired at 2000rpm, so that mode was seldom used. Both rates had a 3 second burst limiter, meaning that you got to shoot for 3 seconds, then your water hose shut down. Again, 1 in 5 was a tracer, crackety-crack, I'm sure it looked impressive from the wrong end too, but I never saw that. Effective range was touted at 1100 meters, mostly because the splash of bullets was visible at that range.

Up close they churn the earth, creating a rooster tail effect of earth as the rounds sought their target, usually a serpentine path of mauled dirt, trees, whatever got in it's way. Inside of 100 yards it is impossible to shoot somebody less that 6 times with one that is on low rate fire. God, what a beast!

My first rounds impacted about 20 yards low and left, a bit of back pressure on the stick, a bit of right pedal, and the dirt dragon began it's journey to the pit. Range at this point was about 60 meters. It was the OK Corral. High Noon. I was Matt Dillon, they were the guys in black. And only because the sound of my chopper had distorted in the hills and they didn't know precisely where I was going to show up, my vomit of lead got to them about 1/2 second before theirs got to us. I was able to hold on target for most of the remaining 2 seconds of burst, flew on over them and down the hill as planned.

Though I seldom reconned a .50 position that had been engaged by Snakes, I knew for certain the condition of this one. I went back, did one u-turn overflight then ran back down the hill, built up speed and then climbed out to higher altitude. The gun was mangled almost beyond recognition, and that was enough for me. Enough was enough. Neither the Oscar or me could talk for about 5 minutes afterward, and when I finally told the team lead I got a bad case of the shakes. Back at the club that night I got a really bad headache with a 6 hour delay fuse. Best thing I know of to cure a hangover is adrenaline. Down collective, pedal right, hope I am alive tonight...


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Yep, I investigated it with my .300. If you just drop a .300 BO round into a 5.56 chamber, it stops well short of letting the bolt go into battery. But if the bullet sets back enough, it can let the bolt go into battery, and fire an AR.

The Blackout usually shoots better with bullets at mag length, instead of the recommended 2.08 OAL, FWIW, which buys a little more safety margin.


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[/quote]
Wow. I can't figure out how the .300 blk round chambered though. Did it fire out of battery?[/quote]

I have a video of it that someone filmed with their cell phone, but can't get it to download. Basically, he fired 4 shots while standing and then on the 5th shot you see a puff of smoke and the mag and bottom of the AR blowout directly towards the ground. Luckily he was holding a vertical grip further up the forearm. This is the only other pic that I have of the chamber after the accident.

[Linked Image]


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Also found a pic of the 5.56 and 300 BLK rounds he was shooting.

[Linked Image]


"Good judgment comes from experience but unfortunately, experience is often derived from a series of bad judgments"
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I had a Norinco M14 fire out partly of battery due to the bridge safety being cut so sloppy that it was possible. The portion of the lug recesses that caught were torn out, the lugs on the bolt were wrecked, extractor is probably still flying, the magazine blown out of the receiver and apart, bolt driven into the back of the receiver which miraculously held, firing-pin broke, Boyds heavy target walnut stock split and the handguard hit the roof over the range firing position. Other than that its cherry. The side of the case was blown out showing that the action was open at the point of peak pressure.Primer looked normal. I wasn't hurt, more through good luck than good planning. I went home to consider my next move and concluded that the one step program of staying away from junk would keep me safest. Mess with junk long enough and it'll try to kill you. As life lessons go it was cheap one.


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Boy, between some of you and that fellow with the T/C I gotta wonder about how some reload, none of my family nor I have ever blown up a firearm, I guess it could happen, but even using that old unstable W785 powder I never got to where anything let go. shocked


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Wanted to try Winchester 760 with 60 gn bullets in a Ruger 77V, .220 Swift. Too cheap to buy a can of powder for an experiment, I borrowed a can from my dad. Went BLOOEY with a starting load. The floorplate broke, stock split into kindling, bolt stop was stuck open but still present and the extractor is still in orbit. The front of the rear scope mount was brass-plated. When the barrel was removed one could see that the base of the case had dissolved. The bolt lugs were not damaged but the action recesses were very slightly set back.

Worst of all a friend was shooting the rifle. Without glasses. He had a cut on his nose, several small cuts on his face and both corneas pitted like the surface of the moon. Wore patches over both eyes for two weeks. Fortunately he recovered completely with no loss of visual acuity, a scare neither of us would want to repeat. I was standing a bit behind the shooting bench and was severely mortified.

Turns out dear old dad, who stored all of his powder on the loading bench, had been loading .44 Magnums and when finished emptied his powder measure into the 1/4-full can of 760.

That cured me of borrowing powder.


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Some folks should have taken up golf!!


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I've had a couple case-head separations in 1911s, .38 Super and 10mm. I had Pachmayr grips on both pistols, and lost the magazines, but nothing else damaged. Pachmayr 1911 grips are rubber covering steel, so I didn't get hurt, stung a little, but not hurt.

That cured me from reading anything more that DickeyBird Metcalf wrote about. He wrote for Shooting Times Magazine and had listed that 10mm load that blew up the Delta Elite in an article.

The .38 Super cases were range-pickups, and had been loaded with "Major Caliber" IPSC loads, and who knows how many times. My loads were modest, probably no more than any cast-bullet 9mm loads. No damage there, either, the magazine was recoverable, in fact. New spring and follower, and back in business.


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I've loaded ammo for 45 years starting at 13, and haven't blown a primer, much less blown up a gun, and I shoot at least once a week.

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I've blown two guns. One I should have known better, one was mostly misfortune.

I had a Walther Model 4 .32 ACP that I carried in a pocket on the side of the "dog house" next to the seat in my semi tractor.

I had read enough Skeeter Skelton to know his advice that guns carried day in and day out - especially in vehicles - should have the ammo in them replaced at frequent intervals because all that vibration causes the gunpowder in the cases to lose it's retardant coating and possibly even break down the granules into smaller, faster powder. Nonetheless, I did not heed that advice. I had a friend who had never shot a gun and wanted to learn. I got that pistol out of my rig and started to demonstrate shooting it.

I think the cartridges in that pistol had probably experienced about 150,000 miles of intense vibration. The first shot made a more dramatic boom than I remembered .32 ACP making in the past, and I felt a number of pieces trickle over my hand out of the extended slide. Darn! It took some searching to find replacement parts for that old relic, but I was able to put that pistol back in working order.

Less my fault was a Manufrance pump 12 ga. I don't remember whose name was stamped on it, several American companies resold this gun in the '50s or 60's (?). A friend gifted this gun to me with a couple of extra barrels. I make little use of shotguns except for deer hunting, so I got the bright (honestly) idea to make it conform to the dimensions of my 870 slug gun. My slug gun was scoped, so I figured an essentially identical gun with iron sights would be great for still hunting and the scoped gun for stump hunting.

I had the butt stock cut to the dimensions of the 870 and a pretty much identical recoil pad mounted. Then I took one of those extra barrels to McGowan and had it shortened to the length of my slug barrel and Remington rifle sights mounted and fitted with fiber-optic inserts.

My BIL called and said "let's go shooting, do you have something to shoot?" I said "Yeah, if we can go by St. Anne I'd like to pick up my new barrel and try it out." We got to an Indiana state range and my 'new' gun was everything I had hoped for. I could just whip it up and snap shoot into minute-of-paper-plate at any reasonable slug-hunting distance with those Fire-Sights. I was pleased.

BIL says "Let's shoot some clay birds." So I swapped barrels and walked over to the traps. Now for me to try to hit a moving target with a shotgun is futile, always has been, and is great entertainment for observers. This time was more entertaining and futiler! I had fired 5 or 10 shots when a shot felt much different! It felt like a very warm and fuzzy gerbil had rushed up my right sleeve, both hands stung and there was smoke around my face - at the wrong end of the gun!

I held the gun away from me to get a look at it, at the same time that my wife - who had been throwing the birds - was saying "What the...? The barrel fell to the concrete with a clatter. The pump forestock was shattered in my left hand. The loading gate had blown out and bent back to strike the fingers of my right hand. The bolt was blown back into the receiver so hard it is still just riveted in there. (My BIL, card that he is, says "Claude, it's like falling off a horse, you have to get right back on. Get another gun out.")

An inspection showed that the locking lug on the end of the barrel had cracked off, allowing the bolt to blow back with the full force of the shot. The cracked surface of the broken lug was partly fresh and bright and partly dark. Obviously it had been cracked for some time before it let go.

I learned something from this that I think is fundamental but I about never hear it taught: Guns have a failure mode and you need to understand the likely vectors of failure. Some designs are much safer in a failure if shot right-handed than if shot left-handed. If my left-handed son had experienced this failure he would have gotten a face full of action parts and shell debris. For me it only resulted in a cloud of shrapnel flying past my ear.

Nowadays, I will not let someone I am responsible for shoot a shotgun from the left shoulder if it has a right side ejection port. That's what Ithacas are for! I am also now outspoken about shooting M1s and M1As from the left shoulder. I have seen too many op-rods dismount violently to the rear to want to see what that does to the shooter's face.

Last edited by GunReader; 06/04/15.

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Originally Posted by Steelhead
I've been around a few shotgun barrels getting peeled back.
I've only seen this once with an LC Smith. My budddy's dad was not happy.

No other guns were injured or destroyed in the posting of this post.


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