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Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Originally Posted by BobinNH
Bob,if I understand this sentence correctly,you are basically saying what Bob Hagel once wrote "A hunter should not choose the caliber,cartridge and bullet that will kill any animal when everything is right; rather,he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong."

Quote is from Bob Hagel "Hunting North America's Big Game" Chapter 23 "Rifles and Ammunition" page 360.



Gawd, I don't know how many times I've quoted this scripture on this website when somebody wants to kill a big ol elk with a stunt caliber/bullet. And I always get attacked....go for it...I'm wearing asbestos underwear.


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Some people only care what the bullet does in the air and not what it does on/in the animal

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Originally Posted by Taco280AI
Some people only care what the bullet does in the air and not what it does on/in the animal


That's only with those sorts that shoot Bergers and other match type bullets at big game..... Weirdos

Partition my good man, 'the op' It's the standard 'premium' elk bullet, My freezer can attest to its performance. It will shoot more accurately than you will be able and too any sane amount of range to an elk.

Although this year I used a 7mm 150 gr. ballistic tip "peer pressure influenced" and found it completely ample for elk, even under 100 yards including an angled chest shot from my lowly .280 rem.... just to muddy the water


happiness is elbow deep in elk guts.
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Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Originally Posted by BobinNH
It's astonishing how simple killing is if you use a bullet fully up to the task of expanding (as far as you intend to shoot),and penetrating well even at close range and high impact speed. (Scratch the rib shots;if it can't handle shoulder and heavy leg bones to reach vitals,it stays home. Ribs are no test;almost anything works there).


And of course put it in the right place.

Cost of bullets,compared to all the other hunt costs today, is irrelevant.Funny, guys are running around with $1000+ rifles,$500-$2000 scopes,and squawking about the trivial cost of the only thing that actually does the killing...the bullet.

All sizzle....no steak.
Bob,if I understand this sentence correctly,you are basically saying what Bob Hagel once wrote "A hunter should not choose the caliber,cartridge and bullet that will kill any animal when everything is right; rather,he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong."

Quote is from Bob Hagel "Hunting North America's Big Game" Chapter 23 "Rifles and Ammunition" page 360.



Elkhunter,

Don't you know this is the interweb?

Nobody ever missed. The Elk always stand broadside at 100 yards, and give you at least 5 minutes to line up the perfect shot. That's why all you need for elk hunting is a .223 with a 55gr Zombie Max.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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WTH was I thinking. grin wink


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Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Originally Posted by BobinNH
It's astonishing how simple killing is if you use a bullet fully up to the task of expanding (as far as you intend to shoot),and penetrating well even at close range and high impact speed. (Scratch the rib shots;if it can't handle shoulder and heavy leg bones to reach vitals,it stays home. Ribs are no test;almost anything works there).


And of course put it in the right place.

Cost of bullets,compared to all the other hunt costs today, is irrelevant.Funny, guys are running around with $1000+ rifles,$500-$2000 scopes,and squawking about the trivial cost of the only thing that actually does the killing...the bullet.

All sizzle....no steak.
Bob,if I understand this sentence correctly,you are basically saying what Bob Hagel once wrote "A hunter should not choose the caliber,cartridge and bullet that will kill any animal when everything is right; rather,he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong."

Quote is from Bob Hagel "Hunting North America's Big Game" Chapter 23 "Rifles and Ammunition" page 360.



Elkhunter,

Don't you know this is the interweb?

Nobody ever missed. The Elk always stand broadside at 100 yards, and give you at least 5 minutes to line up the perfect shot. That's why all you need for elk hunting is a .223 with a 55gr Zombie Max.


That about sums it up... laugh


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Originally Posted by BobinNH
It's astonishing how simple killing is if you use a bullet fully up to the task of expanding (as far as you intend to shoot),and penetrating well even at close range and high impact speed. (Scratch the rib shots;if it can't handle shoulder and heavy leg bones to reach vitals,it stays home. Ribs are no test;almost anything works there).


And of course put it in the right place.

Cost of bullets,compared to all the other hunt costs today, is irrelevant.Funny, guys are running around with $1000+ rifles,$500-$2000 scopes,and squawking about the trivial cost of the only thing that actually does the killing...the bullet.

All sizzle....no steak.
Bob,if I understand this sentence correctly,you are basically saying what Bob Hagel once wrote "A hunter should not choose the caliber,cartridge and bullet that will kill any animal when everything is right; rather,he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong."

Quote is from Bob Hagel "Hunting North America's Big Game" Chapter 23 "Rifles and Ammunition" page 360.



elkhunter: Sure, the advice Hagel gave is as valid today as it was then,except he had fewer bullets to work with than we do now. Today we have a much wider selection of good stuff.





The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I walk too many damm miles between elk to hunt with a varmint bullet. I'd use a "light" cartridge, but I'd stoke it with something that could always bust a shoulder if need be. Not into Texas heart shots, but I will take the quartering ones.


Originally Posted by shrapnel
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle.


Originally Posted by JohnBurns
I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Originally Posted by BobinNH
It's astonishing how simple killing is if you use a bullet fully up to the task of expanding (as far as you intend to shoot),and penetrating well even at close range and high impact speed. (Scratch the rib shots;if it can't handle shoulder and heavy leg bones to reach vitals,it stays home. Ribs are no test;almost anything works there).


And of course put it in the right place.

Cost of bullets,compared to all the other hunt costs today, is irrelevant. Funny, guys are running around with $1000+ rifles,$500-$2000 scopes,and squawking about the trivial cost of the only thing that actually does the killing...the bullet.

All sizzle....no steak.


Just came back from a 2 day elk hunt guiding Daughter #1 on her first elk hunt. Not sure what she expected, but she had only hunted antelope before. She said she had gone from Hunting 101 (antelope) to post-grad work (elk). Unfortunately we started put hunting high (north side of Sleepy Cat) where elk often reside but we failed to find any fresh sign, let alone any elk. We later heard that the only elk people were seeing were down low and we did see a couple hundred total in the hay fields along White River at dawn yesterday as we drove home.

Hunting costs included over $1,000 for new truck tires. Had I not been going hunting this last weekend and again for the full 3rd Rifle season, I would have kept the old tires through the winter. Daughter #1 paid $240 and tax for a room at the Meeker Hotel and we split the cost of our evening dinners. Food costs for breakfast and lunch (bagels and cream cheese, luncheon meat and PBJ sandwiches, apples, snack bars, OJ and ice to keep the food cool) were minimal but not zero. Then there was lunch on the trip to Meeker and on the way back home. I didn't keep track of the gas receipts but estimate about $180 for the trip. Daughter's hunting license was about $47.

Without the cost of the tires, our total expenditures were somewhere over $550 for the 2-day hunt. The cost of bullets fired was $0.00. Even if we had found elk on public land and managed to get in range, the incremental cost of the Barnes 130g TTSX handloads Daughter #1 was using over cup-and-core handloads would have been negligible considering the other expenses. And, at about $17.38 per 20, they were less expensive than all but the very cheapest factory hunting ammo.

Given that Colorado elk hunters are successful on average only about 25% of the time, no shots fired and ammo cost of $0.00 is probably a common story. While we were hunting we talked to people from upstate New York, Missouri, and several other states who will spend more on fuel than we did for the entire hunt. Even if they have success, BobinNH is correct (as usual) - the cost of the bullets for the vast majority of hunters, compared to other hunting costs, is irrelevant.






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Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
Given that Colorado elk hunters are successful on average only about 25% of the time, no shots fired and ammo cost of $0.00 is probably a common story.


Probably not. Even the most numb-nutted nimrod will fire a few "sighters" before the season.

But I do agree that the cost of bullets argument only applies to practice, not the actual hunt.


Originally Posted by bellydeep
I walk too many damm miles between elk to hunt with a varmint bullet.


I walk too many damn miles to use anything other than the bullet I want to shoot. Most often it's a .50 caliber muzzleloader bullet that many will tell you (on the internet) is no good for elk.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

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Muzzleloader bullets on Elk,keep dreaming.(laughing on the internet)

Guess who:

Each shot is unique. A bullet’s effect has less to do with cartridge design, or even the bullet itself, than with range and shot angle, animal size and the missile’s track inside.

Hummm.Shot placement must trump bullet design according to this famous fella.I suppose knowing when to shoot and when not to is also in his forte.

This Elk hunting is getting just to complicated for this old hick but I'll keep reading and learning on the net and tell those shooting the old rifles and carbines with factory ammo, there might still be hope for the non-reloaders/non-premium bullet hunters out there... laugh


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Originally Posted by T_Inman
Originally Posted by bellydeep
Originally Posted by logcutter
As soon as I post this imaginary comparison of the mighty Core-Lokt on the right and the two imaginary Nosler Accubonds why don't you show us ummm anything outdoor/hunting/shooting related instead of all talk and BS with nothing at all to show other than what a child you are for douching up threads with your off topic inferior complex.


Anyone can post a picture of a bullet they shot into a dirt bank. Killing a critter is another matter entirely. I'll open the betting low...lets start with a cow and see if you can keep up.

[Linked Image]


That looks like a big, mature cow.

I slayed a 6x6 bull last Friday with a dreaded [gasp] AMAX out of my 6.5x284. DESTROYED the heart.

Damn target bullets.
And here I shot a 6pt twice with a 338 Win Mag and 210gr Partitions. Caught one too, but lost it in the packing up of stuff to get back to camp.

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Originally Posted by T_Inman
...

I slayed a 6x6 bull last Friday with a dreaded [gasp] AMAX out of my 6.5x284. DESTROYED the heart.

Damn target bullets.


Son-in-law shot an antelope with a 168g A-MAX from a .30-06. The bullet shredded much of the left backstrap and ham. It put the animal on the ground but needlessly ruined a lot of meat.

Just goes to show the obvious - the heavier the bullet the less construction matters. I've often stated I believe most of the game I've shot could have been taken with my .22-250 and a 40g BT. At the same time, when deep penetration was needed the .22-250/40g BT isn't the combination I would have wanted in my hands.



Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.

A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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