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Moron. Mammals, who started out as mammals, had different sized horns. Really? Porn stars have bigger cocks than mine, are they "evolved".

Your "human ancestry" differences are "so gradual" because they don't exist.

I could go down the list of your copy and paste, most of which you are utterly clueless of, but ignorant people bore me.

What kind of answer is that!?

Fossils can be formed quickly and are in fact are produced every year. And DNA: According to Information Science information can only come from a mind. Like your statement above didn't come from random activity on a key pad.

Back to fossils. Fossil are found in sedimentary rock; all over the world. Fossils are fantastic evidence for a world wide flood. We either have a world wide flood or a geological column. The problem with a geological column is the claims of the hundreds of millions of years age for them. According to geologist the average length of time it would take for a continents to erode into the ocean is 14,000,000 years. All the fossils would have eroded into dust and been settled on the ocean floor. All the geostatic pressure we used to see at oil wells would have dissipated millennial ago. In fact if the oil was hundreds of millions of years old, it would have eroded along with the continents.

One Ph.D chemistry professor in lecture said oil and coal are formed quickly or not form at all. He was not talking in geological terms when he said quickly. He was talking in days and explained it.

Ringman, Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not sure what your goal is in this thread and threads like it. I like you. You are a gentleman and I enjoy many of your posts, but your understanding of geology, plate tectonics, the basic tenets of paleontology, the history of science, and modern history interferes with your ability to develop a consistently coherent and rational world view. I appreciate your passion for these topics, but the kind of discussion you seem to want to have requires a commitment to much more rigorous methods. At minimum, these would include clearly argued points supported with cited facts much like a_s did above. Anything less and both your position and credibility suffer catastrophically.

You fuggin yankee prick. GFY. Ring doesn't posit himself as a scientist. He just has a functional BS detector. Why don't you rebuff some of my posts?

I notice you fck yourself using your head up your azz. What a complete stupid moronic nutcase! You need help fella...

...and, you crakers lost. Yankees kicked your butts clear up past your pinheads. My ancestors helped, proudly... 98th Regiment of the Illinois Volunteers.

Bluemonday, Your posts are a mixture of emotionally charged ad hominem and half baked outbursts, neither of which tolerate rebuffing.

kingston,



Thanks for you polite and concerned post. I don't claim to be educated. I received a GED when I was fifty-one years old. Over the years, before that and after, I have met a few scientists and learned a few things. Among them is to challenge people to support their claims with more of the old refuted by evolutionist claims. I remember in 1974 when Goldschmid or something like that came up with the "hopeful monster mechanism" because there were no positively identified transitional forms at the time. His colleagues ridiculed and badgered him over it. Now they call it punctuated equilibrium because there still are no water tight transitional forms that all evolutionist agree on.

If you want to know about plate tectonics you need to read someone besides evolutionists. I met a scientist who used to be an evolutionist. He had a Ph.D in hydraulics (water running). His study of the Grand Canyon convinced him he was wrong and concluded it was formed rapidly. He demonstrated his opinion with aerial photos and convinced many. Mount St Helens has a little canyon 140th the size of Grand Canyon. It was cut out of solid rock in one afternoon. If an evolutionary geologist was taken to that canyon and didn't know it was cut in a few hours he would say it took millenia at least, based on his flawed education.

You mentioned plate tectonics. I watched a video from the Sandia National Laboratories. It is not a Creationist bastion. The ran some programs to discover what would cause the world's mountain ranges. They discovered the plates would have to move at meters per second to bend the strata to form them. There are some huge bends in rocks demonstrated to have been formed while the the strata was still soft. These are evidence of a world wide flood.



My credibility is of no repute. The positions I posit are supported by good science, just not necessarily conforming to the evolutionary position. If you think my positions are so shaky get a masters degree or Ph.D scientist for a debate and I will get a Ph.D person to take the other side. The last debate he had, that I remember was with a biologist professor. When it came time for the rebuttal the evolutionist said, "There's nothing I can say to rebut Dr. Kindell."

I used to be an atheistic evolutionist. The facts didn't support my beliefs. I became a creationist and then a Christian and them a Biblical creationist. I constantly find circular reasoning in evolutionist who start with evolution as their starting point. The problem with that is they are pushed to a place where they have to believe nothing became something. The Bible creationist can appeal to an Infinite Intelligent Energy Who is capable of creating all that we see. This too is circular. But at least it is not irrational.

Ringman,

You're well-read in your area of argument, I have to give you that, and please take it as a compliment.

While we'll never agree, we should agree that you're a man of Class.

Thanks for your reply Ringman,

I will echo what others have said regarding your decorum in the discussion of such a "hot topic".

I have to assume when you say " God tells us He is a spirit and those who worship him worship Him in spirit and Truth" that you are referring to Bible passages stating such? If you happen to have easy access to such a passage, could you please post it for me to read. I have no "old Testament" in my possession at the moment.

Again, as others have pointed out, one must "believe" the translations and interpretations of manuscripts written well after the occurrence of the events described in Genesis are correct and free from "human error" in order to "believe" that God tells us He is a "he".

And why are we to assume that the descriptions of those events are any truer than the creation events described in the following are any less valid?

http://indigenouspeople.net/creatlingit.htm

There are many similarities to the Hebrew creation story in that one, Raven releases light, and stars, and the moon (the heavens), makes the rivers, and even this:

"He made all the different races, as the Haida and the Tsimshian. They are human beings like the Thingit, but he made their languages different.

He also made the dog. It was at first a human being and did every thing Raven wanted done, but he was too quick with everything, so Raven took him by the neck and pushed him down, saying, "You are nothing but a dog. You shall have four legs."

" As he was traveling along in another place, a wild celery came out, became angry with Raven, and said, "You are always wandering around for things to eat." Then he named it wild celery (ya'naet) and said to it, "You shall stay there, and people shall eat you."


Mmmm, causing there to be different languages. Now where do I remember that type of thing?

And making animals and plants for "our" needs, sounds familiar too.

If we were to have originated in a place south of the equator we might wonder why the folks of the Hebrew tribe believe what they do when we have this to believe in:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030216144835/home.iprimus.com.au/lunetta/index-18.html

A small excerpt (red emphasis mine):

"Out of her stomach leaped all the animal tribes of the world, and all the spirit beings.

The sun leaped up into the sky to light the world for the tribes, and the moon jumped up to take his place in the night sky.

The Frog tribe started singing with delight as the blood of the Serpent flowed out of her body and into the channels cut by her travels, and into the deep chasms to become the sea. "

Again, sounds mighty familiar, but this time from a "she". The immediate creation of all the worlds animals, the lighting of the world and the creation of "the heavens" and the "waters".

Of course, based on what I was taught for many years, I am to "believe" that the Hebrew version is the correct one, because that version tells me it is so. And for some years passing perhaps "our" culture knew of no others, and afterwards when we became aware they were considered "gentile".

Seems like there are a number of different versions of the same "creation". Besides a self "authorizing" of "the Word" what evidence is there for a rational person to use to instill a belief in the idea that God is a "he"?


Geno

PS, the internet is a wonderful thing. I used to have to spend hours in a library to find information on other cultures creation stories. You might hazard a guess that I could come up with many more versions rather easily now.

Damn you're dumb. How's that for "decorum".


PS. When and if you bust Hell wide open, no one will miss you.

Whatever you do, don't bother to actually read an Old Testament, and attempt to verify the hundreds of prophecies therein that were fullfilled hundreds of years after the fact.

Ringman---I also appreciate your passion and your reasoned debate. I might not agree but I dam sure support your right to your opinion. I have asked a couple of times and you have not answered my question. The answer is important for establishing a baseline argument and further debate.

How old do you believe the earth is?

P.S. There is nothing in your tone or content that suggests anything Christian.

Search "Gap Theory"

Has anyone here read The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell or watched Bill Moyers' documentary, Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth?

I may be misinformed, ignorant of all the pertinent facts, misguided, etc....

but those that know me, have taught me, and work with me generally do not consider me "dumb".

As I mentioned in my post to another member, I do not presently have an Old Testament where I am staying. Perhaps you could do a service (in the interest of spreading the word, that's something a good Christian should do, no?) and cite a few, lets say six or so, of those prophecies you mentioned.

Thanks for your kindness.

Geno

PS, regarding your postscript "PS. When and if you bust Hell wide open, no one will miss you." Do you know my family and friends well enough to back up your statement that "no one" will miss me?

You noticed that also Georgia Boy?

Thanks for pointing it out.

Geno

Actualy, people should read the translations other then King James version (modern English) of the bible. They would find everything is not so certain, for and against issues as they want them to be.

Jesus spoke and read in Aramaic or like and Genesis is much older. Somehow translators left out words, added words and changed items. Different people made slightly different interpretations.

I am not sure that God felt he needed to do a re-write around intent, but I am sure that men corrupt all they touch (not always via an intent, ignorance has as big or more of an impact) And of course, individuals seize their decisions and then sort any data as good or bad, based on what they already decided or someone else told them.

Not limited to theological discussions.