I am a new archer and am planning to hunt for cow elk in Wyoming in September. I'm shooting a Diamond Justice bow that is currently set at 54 pounds. With my current level of proficiency, I will limit shots to an extreme maximum of 35 yards, and would prefer the elk to be 20 yards or closer.

I have been practicing with Gold Tip Expedition Hunter arrows with 100 grain tips. I weighed one of the arrows (with tip) and found it was around 390 grains. Of course I plan to use 100 grain broadheads.

I've read of hunters using much heavier arrows: 500 grains or more.

I've had three archery shops look over my gear without challenging my arrow weight. Am I missing something or making a serious mistake?

I'm a one year noob, but I do hunt in Wyoming and I do know what people are using around here given the frequency of my visits to the archery shop and the range. I would say your arrow weight and head weight are right in the ballpark of what most compound shooters are using. My combo using the same arrow is about 10 grains lighter. Use what you have. As for performance on elk, I can't help you, because I freaking missed mine last year.

Thanks Cheyenne. If you ID is any clue I'll be near you. I drew a cow elk for unit 7.

Bob,
Using the proper arrow for the intended game is largely a function of adequate penetration. Which, in turn, is a function of arrow mass and the velocity at which it leaves your bow.

Have you chronographed your arrows? Knowing your arrow speed, and the weight of your arrow, gives you your kinetic energy value, which can be used as a rough guideline as to whether or not it is adequate for the game you intend to pursue. There are a number of tables online which offer guidelines.

Light/fast vs. heavy/slow are ongoing arguments, resolved mostly by personal preference. A lighter, faster arrow (within reason) provides flatter trajectory, and can equal the KE of a heavier, slower arrow.

Offhand, looking at the specs of your equipment, I would say it likely is more than adequate for your intended purpose.

Ya still gotta hit what you're shooting at!!!

If you are truly going to limit shots to 35yds and under, I'd go for more arrow weight because trajectory won't be an issue at those ranges. Elk are big, and their hide is thicker than a deer's, not to mention the bones you might hit unintentionally. I'd suggest something in the 440-450gr area, especially if you're using an expandable head. A good friend of mine runs a hunting outfit in CO, and they take several bowhunters every year. He cringes every time someone shows up in camp with some high speed outfit shooting lightweight arrows with expandable heads.

My approx. 390 grain arrows chrono at approximately 243 ft/second yielding approximately 52 ft/lbs.

Based on feedback I'm getting I'll probably stick with the lighter arrows this year since I'm familiar with them. In time I will probably grow into 60+ lb draw strengths and use heavier arrows. Hitting the elk in the vitals is my number one concern for this year, and lighter arrows shoot a bit flatter. I am using fixed heads, by the way. Expandible heads are not legal in my home state of WA and I want to use something legal in all the states I may hunt.

My speeds are quite similar to yours, shooting my GT pro hunter carbons, I think 251fps. When I switched over to Easton FMJs my impact points were within 2" of the lighter shafts, up to 35 yds. with velocity at 236fps. You'll likely be okay with your setup, but don't expect a pass through.

Bob33,
You MUST hit the elk properly and at the proper angle..that's the absolute FIRST requirement.
Your broadheads must be sharp and cut on impact and of course the arrows must fly true.

At your chosen distance, I think you can kill a cow elk well given the above requirements being met.

My own preference is for 730 grain arrows moving about 200-205 FPS out of 70-75# longbow or recurve bows at 50 yards and closer..:)
Not lost an elk yet in killin' em over 40 years..but I'm somewhat archaic..:0 Jim

Jim, you wrote "My own preference is for 730 grain arrows moving about 200-205 FPS out of 70-75# longbow or recurve"

I don't shoot a 70# bow (yet). If you were limited to 55# what arrow weight would you choose?

That 54# bow and 390 grain arrow will do just fine. Be sure to use sharp fixed blade broadheads (I use muzzy 90gr 4 blades) and only shoot at broadside or quartering away animals (this advise should be followed even if shooting a 100# bow and 800gr arrows). I've killed bulls the last two year with a Hoyt Ultratec set at 59# shooting arrows that weighed 400 and 390 grains in the 265fps range. Shot through the one last year so fast he did not know what happened - just stood there a while, then layed down and took the eternal nap. Put a sharp broadhead through the lungs and your setup will do nicely.

Bob33,As I indicated, I'm not sure you need to 'change' anything so long as the few requisites I mentioned you control well.
For a stickbow, I'd use 525-550 grain total weight arrows...( mine and ours are wood) but I don't have much experience with carbon arrows and so just tell what I know from experience..Jim

I belive the Diamond Justice is a compound bow. - My answer to the this post was assuming the bow used is a compound.

Yes it is a compound bow.

I shoot a 30 1/4 Terminator Hunter which weighs around 12-13gpi. Once I add the 100grn Grimreaper it weighs in at 500grns. With my bow cranked up to 72 lbs it's doing 284fps. I would use this set -up for any N. American game. I'm a 100% confident in it's ability to take game.

Bob, I believe with this current setup your total arrow weight is too light (not that it cant get it done) but if you want a blow through I would go to 450-500 grain total weight and a cut on contact broadhead.
Your choice of distance shooting is spot on and with someone who knows how to call for you, you probably will only need your top pin.
Good luck.

Here's an informative link on Bowsite, dealing with arrow variables-

bowsite.com/bowsite/features/practical_bowhunter/penetration/index.cfm

Thanks for the link. I actually just read that. The following suggests that lighter is not necessarily bad:

"For example, a 375 grain arrow traveling at 280 fps has about the same KE as a 600 grain arrow moving at 220 fps. The latter, though, has more momentum and theoretically should provide superior penetration.

The reality, though, is something else all together. The formula for momentum is very similar to the one for KE, and the difference between the two measurements doesn�t seem to translate to the real world. Lighter weight arrows with comparatively low momentum can penetrate quite well. There are likely other variables which influence penetration far more than the minor difference between KE and momentum."

All things being equal, heavier penetrates better. I'd bump up the weight, 10 grains per pound of draw weight is the pretty well accepted rule of thumb for us stick bow shooters. Perfect arrow flight and razor sharp broadheads are more important though, no matter what the weight of your arrow. Just my 2 cents. Good luck this fall!

If penetration is the issue (and it IS), resistance passing through the animal contributes much, much more than the difference between a slow heavy arrow and a fast light arrow.

The primary determinants of resistance throught the animal are type of tissue encountered (ie less penetration through bone than muscle or organs), cutting diameter of the broadhead (smaller heads will penetrate deeper), expandable vs fixed broadheads (expandable penetrate slightly less due to a small amt of KE used up to deploy the blades), number of blades on the broadhead (more blades decrease penetration), and diameter of the arrow shaft (smaller shafts penetrate better). The effect of the above are listed in order of decreasing importance (my opinion only).

In other words, number one way to lose an elk... stick him in the scapula.

You should be fine with your setup, but shot placement is absolutely critical. I personally prefer small diameter (1") broadheads for the increased penetration.

I plan to shoot four bladed (two intersecting), fixed broadheads that are 1 1/8" diameter. I agree that placement is critical. An elk hit in the scapula or stomach with a 500 grain arrow will travel farther and die slower than one hit in the lungs with a 400 grain arrow. I shoot every day and will limit my shot distance to an extreme maximum of 35 yards, and hopefully 20 yards or under.

I'm a new bowhunter, but have hunted my entire life with a rifle. Similar discussions/debates go on all the time about "how much caliber" is enough for elk? Some hunters shoot them with a .243, while others think anything less than a 375 H&H is too small. The same issues apply: a well placed .270 bullet will usually outperform a poorly placed 375 bullet, so shoot something you can hit with. I know in time, if I continue to hunt with a bow, that I will shoot heavier draw weights and heavier arrows. For now, based on feedback I've received, I think my setup should work OK if I place the shot well. Thanks.

I will be suprised if you get a blowthrough with your current setup.
Dont take that the wrong way but I shoot 417 grain arrows at right between 298-300 fps and of the 3 elk I shot only 1 was a blowthrough.
Remember 2 holes are better than 1 when it comes to bleeding out.
Whatever you do just report your fidings with us.......in other words prove me wrong.

Bob33,
Don't forget one very important aspect of adequate arrow weight and speed- that is TUNING.
A properly tuned bow will throw its arrow straight, relatively speaking. And an arrow hitting point on will penetrate better than one reaching its target sideways, losing much of its energy in the effort upon impact.

I'll take a lighter, slower arrow out of a properly tuned bow, over a heavier, faster arrow with sloppy flight characteristics, any day.

Tom264, your 417 grains at 298 fps suggest a higher draw weight than I am shooting. My 395 grain arrows are going around 245 fps from a 54 pound bow.

I may not get a blowthrough, but I do expect to get a dead elk if I place the shot correctly. Thanks.

I wouldn't hunt elk with that setup especially with a 4blade broadhead. Unless of coarse you get within 10paces. The arrow is light and the poundage needs to be cranked up for that arrow. If you use that set-up I would go with a 2blade broadhead. That's just me.

Hey Bob,
Check out these broadheads........might be worth looking into, especially if there is a chance of bone.
Steelforce Phatheads,

Thanks. I've read of quite a few bowhunters that disagree with the need for heavy arrows, so I will go with the equipment that several experienced archers set me up with.

No prob...............its your hunt.

Bob33, Only thing I'd change is your max range. Practice out to 50 at least. If a big bull is standing there broadside at 40 yards - put an arrow in him! Some guys make elk out to be armor plated - the ones I've killed have had fur on them. If your arrow is not over 500 grains it will likely bounce right off, hooy. Like I said before my setup is a 390gr carbon arrow out of my 59# Ultratec with a 4 blade Muzzy going about 265 fps. That setup killed a bull each of the last 2 years and hopefully I'll put another one in the freezer this fall. Put a sharp broadhead in the boiler room and your setup will do just fine. If you can pull a few extra pounds, then that is all the better, if not - what you have now will do the trick. Hope you stick a big one!

Thanks, Centershot. I am just not strong enough to increase the draw weight this year. I will have to limit my range for now. I do believe I can kill an elk at 40 yards. Beyond that, I'm not confident enough to take a shot. I've shot at 50 yards with my 40 yard pin and noted how much the arrow drops in those 10 yards: at least 15 inches, it seems. Being a first year bow hunter, I want to be successful and then build on that. A clean kill on a cow elk at close range is my goal. Once I've got some actual hunting experience and another year to practice I'll be competent at longer distances.

I personally think a lot of guys would be much better off shooting lower poundage bows. It's easier on your body especially the shoulders and for most guys the aiming process is easier holding less weight. With modern highly efficient bows high draw weights are no longer necessary. Reasonable arrow speed is easily obtainable with carbon arrows. So, you can shoot more, more accurately and more often without being tired or sore all while still having acceptable performance - what's not to like about that? If you are planning on a trip to Africa or to Hunt Big Dangerous Bears or have a really short draw length then you may want to rethink your setup, but for the lower 48 a 60# 28"+ draw modern cam bow will get the job done.

My current bow,Bowtech 82nd, is set at 57lbs draw weight. I just picked this one up last weekend and it is a good bit faster than my older bow. I have a 28" draw, shooting 430gr arrows and the speed was 259fps this afternoon, checked at the archery center where I purchased it. That's plenty good for elk or moose out to 35yds, no need for straining to pull more poundage. If this or a similar setup won't do the job I'll increase the arrow weight.