I picked up some Shooters Pro Shop discount 200 gr .35 cal Accubonds recently. I’m considering trying CFE223, as I have a good supply on hand.
Nodker lists a limited selection of powder in their loadcdata, and CFE223 isn’t one.
The only published data I’ve found for 200gr bullets with CFE223 in the Whelen is Sierra, and their charge weights seem uniformly warm.
I was curious if anyone has used CFE223 with The 200 gr Noslers? I’d be interested to hear about accuracy and charge weights.
Looks like it would kill stuff:
Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54425
Useable Case Capaci: 61.701 grain H2O = 4.006 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223 *C
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.747% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-07.5 100 62.00 2708 3257 46767 7516 93.4 1.171
-06.7 101 62.50 2732 3315 48054 7580 93.8 1.157
-06.0 102 63.00 2756 3373 49365 7643 94.2 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
-05.2 102 63.50 2780 3431 50750 7704 94.6 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
-04.5 103 64.00 2803 3490 52161 7763 94.9 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
-03.7 104 64.50 2827 3550 53626 7821 95.3 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 105 65.00 2851 3611 55134 7877 95.6 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
-02.2 106 65.50 2875 3671 56692 7931 96.0 1.076 ! Near Maximum !
-01.5 106 66.00 2899 3733 58301 7983 96.3 1.063 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.7 107 66.50 2923 3795 59967 8033 96.6 1.051 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 108 67.00 2947 3858 61687 8081 96.9 1.038 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 109 67.50 2971 3921 63468 8128 97.2 1.026 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.5 110 68.00 2996 3985 65313 8172 97.5 1.013 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.2 110 68.50 3020 4050 67222 8214 97.7 1.001 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 111 69.00 3044 4115 69195 8254 98.0 0.989 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.7 112 69.50 3068 4180 71244 8291 98.2 0.977 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 108 67.00 2998 3993 65452 8093 98.3 1.013 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 3% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 108 67.00 2892 3714 58073 8028 95.2 1.065 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Over all, it appears to have some of the best potential for your bullet choice.
I'd sure give it a try:
Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54425
Useable Case Capaci: 61.701 grain H2O = 4.006 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 57250 psi, or 394 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 108 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
59 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 75%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 3031 107.0 56.9 3.69 2885 100.0 57250 7130 1.077 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 105.9 65.7 4.26 2884 96.1 57250 7949 1.072 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 105.6 60.1 3.89 2878 97.7 57250 7798 1.084 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 106.0 64.2 4.16 2876 97.3 57250 7749 1.073 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 98.2 60.1 3.90 2875 99.3 57250 7473 1.076 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 100.8 62.6 4.05 2873 98.6 57250 7691 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C 106.9 60.8 3.94 2865 97.6 57250 7693 1.086 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C 106.3 60.5 3.92 2861 97.1 57250 7695 1.086 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 103.4 57.5 3.73 2858 100.0 57250 7037 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Match Rifle 103.6 60.7 3.93 2855 99.7 57250 7300 1.094 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 103.6 60.7 3.93 2855 99.7 57250 7300 1.094 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 101.3 60.7 3.93 2855 99.7 57250 7300 1.094 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 102.3 58.2 3.77 2849 98.1 57250 7531 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp *C *T 101.8 56.0 3.63 2848 100.0 57250 6561 1.080 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 100.6 61.1 3.96 2844 97.5 57250 7534 1.084 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 108.0 62.1 4.02 2842 98.2 55171 7633 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 102.6 58.3 3.78 2841 97.6 57250 7515 1.091 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 107.5 62.5 4.05 2837 95.4 57250 7632 1.091 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 107.8 60.3 3.91 2834 97.3 57250 7389 1.076 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 *C 105.6 60.7 3.94 2831 99.8 57250 7215 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 93.1 57.8 3.75 2830 99.9 57250 7096 1.087 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 *C 103.3 57.8 3.75 2829 99.9 57250 7090 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Precision 107.3 59.4 3.85 2827 98.7 57250 7291 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062 107.3 59.4 3.85 2827 98.7 57250 7291 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 108.0 60.1 3.89 2826 99.9 54230 7310 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 98.7 54.5 3.53 2824 100.0 57250 6867 1.084 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 92.7 54.5 3.53 2824 100.0 57250 6867 1.084 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C 98.4 56.3 3.65 2822 98.7 57250 7234 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 *T 108.0 64.4 4.18 2818 96.3 50297 8141 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C 103.7 57.7 3.74 2813 98.7 57250 7233 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 100.6 57.2 3.71 2812 98.6 57250 7147 1.091 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 107.8 59.5 3.86 2809 96.7 57250 7318 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 96.3 58.9 3.82 2807 99.2 57250 7054 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 96.5 58.9 3.82 2807 99.2 57250 7054 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET *T 108.0 59.4 3.85 2805 96.7 56965 7308 1.088 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C 99.7 61.1 3.96 2793 94.6 57250 7336 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World AR Plus 94.7 57.7 3.74 2793 99.2 57250 6926 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 94.7 57.7 3.74 2793 99.2 57250 6926 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 98.2 57.0 3.69 2790 100.0 57250 6688 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 95.6 58.9 3.82 2790 98.1 57250 7017 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 108.0 65.0 4.21 2788 90.8 51913 7793 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 108.0 65.0 4.21 2788 90.8 51913 7793 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator *C 97.2 59.0 3.83 2785 97.3 57250 7103 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x *C 96.0 51.5 3.34 2785 100.0 57250 6421 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 99.6 57.5 3.73 2782 95.8 57250 7144 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 93.2 54.7 3.55 2777 99.2 57250 6850 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 108.0 58.0 3.76 2776 96.7 55363 7146 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 98.8 53.8 3.48 2773 100.0 57250 6371 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 108.0 62.3 4.04 2767 91.3 56819 7281 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 91.1 55.2 3.58 2767 99.1 57250 6783 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 99.0 55.5 3.59 2767 99.0 57250 6793 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Tactical Rifle 93.8 56.8 3.68 2766 98.3 57250 6817 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 *C 92.1 51.2 3.32 2763 100.0 57250 6252 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060 101.8 56.3 3.65 2760 97.5 57250 6874 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 101.0 56.8 3.68 2751 97.9 57250 6789 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 *C 104.6 54.5 3.53 2744 100.0 57250 6151 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 94.9 48.4 3.14 2736 100.0 57250 5928 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 *C 108.0 59.0 3.82 2736 98.4 53360 6864 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 82.8 49.1 3.18 2736 100.0 57250 6199 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4166 Enduron *C*T 108.0 58.8 3.81 2734 92.1 56240 6994 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE BLK *C 90.1 54.4 3.52 2730 98.6 57250 6586 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 *C 98.5 52.4 3.39 2730 100.0 57250 6053 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 90.4 48.1 3.11 2728 100.0 57250 5881 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C 108.0 62.8 4.07 2727 93.2 46945 7694 1.171
IMR 4451 Enduron *C*T 108.0 60.7 3.93 2726 91.3 53820 7150 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7 89.7 49.4 3.20 2725 100.0 57250 5992 1.111 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 91.5 48.9 3.17 2721 100.0 57250 6135 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Buffalo Rifle 80.8 43.0 2.78 2718 100.0 57250 6012 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D060 80.8 43.0 2.78 2718 100.0 57250 6012 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744 79.0 43.0 2.78 2718 100.0 57250 6012 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 107.7 63.9 4.14 2713 90.9 57250 6799 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon LVR 108.0 61.4 3.98 2710 92.3 47407 7474 1.165
Vihtavuori N135 *C 108.0 55.7 3.61 2701 100.0 48932 6539 1.167
Thanks for looking at this! I’m assuming this is a QuickLOAD output? If I’m reading it right, the max CFE223 charge would be 65.7 gr for the given parameters?
I tried several powders with that 200gr AB, including CFE, trying to get to 2900 fps with accuracy. I got the velocity with CFE, but not the accuracy. My results were FAR away from Nosler's load data. Turned out that H4895 was my powder. I got to 2950 with no pressure signs, but the load producing 2910 was more accurate with less velocity variance. I've not killed anything with it yet, but it may end up getting slung at a bear or an elk this year.
Thanks for looking at this! I’m assuming this is a QuickLOAD output? If I’m reading it right, the max CFE223 charge would be 65.7 gr for the given parameters?
Tannhauser,
Yes, the output is from Quickload. The table of various powders I provided is about 3% below SAAMI max to allow for variations in powder lots etc. Keep in mind, since a lot of Whelens were built on odd actions, the SAAMI specss are pretty low, at around 58K PSI. If your rifle's built on a strong modern action, you may have some additional room to play. As always, if you choose to play, do so carefully.
I also use H-4895 but my load in a 24” barrel with the 200 gr Accubond tops out at a little over 2700 fps (Labradar chronograph).
Whoa, 2900 fps + is in 358 Norma territory IIRC
Nosler's data goes up to 2900 with 8208 in a 26" bbl. I couldn't get near that before I hit pressure in a 24". H4895 has a slower burn rate. I don't mind stepping beyond 60K psi. The same brass in 270 Win is loaded to 65K. I think much of the data for the Whelen is conservative, and uses older powders that are not optimal. I didn't feel like I was stretching anything outside of any safe limitation. The H4895 in my gun didn't produce a steep pressure curve.
I'm getting prepped for a move right now, and can't find that particular load notebook, or I would tell you exactly what charges I shot of which powders, and what my results were. I use a Shaw 24" Midway special barrel, tightly headspaced, new Hornady brass which caused a small amount of resistance upon closing the bolt, CCI 200's. When the primers started cratering, I was too warm. That was the "pressure" standard I chose.
If you look at the new Speer data, 180's are loaded to 3172 fps and the 220's are loaded to 2826. Given that, with the right powder, 3000fps with a 200 should be possible within pressure spec for the Whelen.
Thanks for looking at this! I’m assuming this is a QuickLOAD output? If I’m reading it right, the max CFE223 charge would be 65.7 gr for the given parameters?
Tannhauser,
Yes, the output is from Quickload. The table of various powders I provided is about 3% below SAAMI max to allow for variations in powder lots etc. Keep in mind, since a lot of Whelens were built on odd actions, the SAAMI specss are pretty low, at around 58K PSI. If your rifle's built on a strong modern action, you may have some additional room to play. As always, if you choose to play, do so carefully.
Thanks for the clarification.
My rifle is an early:mid 80’s 700 ADL rebored by JES, so a modern, strong action.
I tried several powders with that 200gr AB, including CFE, trying to get to 2900 fps with accuracy. I got the velocity with CFE, but not the accuracy. My results were FAR away from Nosler's load data. Turned out that H4895 was my powder. I got to 2950 with no pressure signs, but the load producing 2910 was more accurate with less velocity variance. I've not killed anything with it yet, but it may end up getting slung at a bear or an elk this year.
Do you have handy the charge weights where you found the accuracy node? H5895 was another powder I was considering to use for working up a load.
Frankly, I’ll take accuracy over speed for my application. I’d love to have both of course, and CFE223 is such an easy metering, ckean but ing powder does it would be ideal. But if I can’t get the accuracy I want, I’ll move on.
I found my load notes.
Temp 85-90 degrees. Negligible wind. As stated previously, new Hornady brass, CCI200, COL 3.340", approx .045" from lands. I didn't look for accuracy nodes, since this is a 400 yd max shooter. I wanted powders that wouldn't lose a lot of velocity in cold temps. Vel average is 5 shots. I don't have the time to make this look pretty....
CFE 223 63gr 2760 64gr 2772 65gr 2837 66gr 2895 Accuracy got better as charges went up, and extreme spread shrank. Didn't try 67. 66 Looked pretty warm, and I didn't want to pull the trigger on them.
R-15 60gr 2743 61gr 2777 62gr 2836. 62 was tops I wanted to shoot. All were acceptable accuracy with low extreme spread.
H4895 58gr 2824 59gr 2886 60gr 2930 61gr 2971. Good extreme spread. Accuracy got better as charge increased. 61 pretty spicy. Shoot again 59-61.
TAC 61gr 2923 62gr 2936 63gr 2936. Accuracy not great. Maybe seat deeper. Low ES. Shoot again?
Shot the 4895 stuff again later, 59, 60, 61. 40 degrees, variable half-value wind, 5-20mph. 5 shots each. All velocities dropped approx 20 fps, 59-2862, 60-2910, 61-2951. I settled for 60 at 2910 because the 5 shot extreme spread was 26 fps over my Pro-Chrono from 10 feet. Accuracy in the wind created an elongated group, just over one and a quarter inches at exactly 100 yds for 5. I was trying to get the rig ready for hunting, so was looking for "good enough". I listed only shorthand conclusions in my notes for 59gr (NOT GOOD) and 61gr (NOT AS GOOD) I remember accuracy was acceptable for all, but 60 shot the best, and 61 just kept nagging at me as too much. There was zero bolt lift or primer issues, but it FELT like too much, and I didn't need the extra speed.
When I did the final sight-in with the 60 gr load, 3 went into just under an inch at 100.
Somewhere in my notes was 8208 test results, but I don't see them. They were poor for me, falling about 200 fps below Nosler's data, and hitting pressure at about 2700fps. I should do some more testing with TAC eventually, but I've already become attached to the H4895 load and feel confident in it. I've learned that my confidence in what I am shooting trumps my meticulously analyzed load and gun performance virtually every time when it comes to hunting and hitting animals.
whiie not nosler or accubond, Speer lists CFE 223 loads for their bullets in the 35 whelen in their latest manual.
for the speer 220 the range is 61 to 67 grains
for the speer 250 the range is 57.9 to 61.4 grains
perhaps this may be of some use to you
whiie not nosler or accubond, Speer lists CFE 223 loads for their bullets in the 35 whelen in their latest manual.
for the speer 220 the range is 61 to 67 grains
for the speer 250 the range is 57.9 to 61.4 grains
That is not what they currently post online.
https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...35_caliber_357-358_dia/35_Whelen_250.pdfFor the 250 gr pill it's 57.9 and 64.1 grains. Maybe you have "sex daily", uh, I mean dyslexia?
I'm at 64.0 gr of CFE-223 + Nosler 250 PT now. Need to run that one over the chrono.
I tried CFE-223 with the 200 TTSX. IMO it's burn rate is too slow. I'd recco IMR-3031, 4895, TAC or IMR-8208.
you are correct!
my apologies for perhaps being misleading.
My 7600 pump likes the 200 TTSX with CFE 223
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/2DG9H5Bl.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/cAy0m1el.jpg)
Group looks like Fotis, but 2,690 fps is rather pedestrian.
I did some work with Power Pro Varmint with the 200TTSX in my 35 Whelen AI and it was most impressive - pushing 3000 fps. Perhaps it'll work with the 200 AB as well.
I bought a bunch of the same 200AB seconds as you from SPS but mostly figured to try them in the .358 Win, since I am "there" in the Whelen with the 200TTSX and Varmint. I posted my work on another site, let's see if I can find the link.
200 TTSX and VarmintIf you scroll back from the linked post you can read about the initial interpolations to derive the data and tests with 200 grain round nose to baseline the charges.
Good luck,
Rex
Group looks like Fotis, but 2,690 fps is rather pedestrian.
You think I should increase charge to 65 or so?
Thanks for the responses. I tried a load ladder with H335, which I had loaded around the time I posted this as H335 was listed by Nosler in their data and I had a random pound. Accuracy was best at max charge, but around 1.5 MOA at best.
Certainly “good enough” for most hunting, but I’m going to try another powder or two just because
Thanks for the responses. I tried a load ladder with H335, which I had loaded around the time I posted this as H335 was listed by Nosler in their data and I had a random pound. Accuracy was best at max charge, but around 1.5 MOA at best.
Certainly “good enough” for most hunting, but I’m going to try another powder or two just because
Did you use a magnum primer?
I've shot a good bit of Milsurplus H335 and BLc-2. On average, BLC-2's turned in the better groups for me.
Just another option to consider:
Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54425
Useable Case Capaci: 61.701 grain H2O = 4.006 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon BL-C2
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.794% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-07.9 93 58.00 2660 3142 44227 7230 96.2 1.212
-07.1 94 58.50 2683 3198 45487 7288 96.5 1.197
-06.4 95 59.00 2707 3254 46786 7344 96.8 1.182
-05.6 96 59.50 2730 3310 48131 7399 97.1 1.167
-04.8 97 60.00 2754 3367 49513 7451 97.4 1.153 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 97 60.50 2777 3425 50934 7502 97.7 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
-03.2 98 61.00 2800 3482 52396 7551 97.9 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
-02.4 99 61.50 2824 3541 53900 7598 98.2 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
-01.6 100 62.00 2847 3599 55452 7643 98.4 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
-00.8 101 62.50 2870 3659 57053 7686 98.6 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 101 63.00 2894 3718 58706 7727 98.8 1.072 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.8 102 63.50 2917 3778 60412 7765 99.0 1.059 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.6 103 64.00 2940 3839 62174 7802 99.1 1.046 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.4 104 64.50 2963 3900 63994 7836 99.3 1.034 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.2 105 65.00 2987 3961 65875 7868 99.4 1.021 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 106 65.50 3010 4023 67819 7898 99.6 1.009 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 101 63.00 2938 3834 62483 7685 99.6 1.046 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 3% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 101 63.00 2844 3593 54967 7729 97.6 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
Thanks for the responses. I tried a load ladder with H335, which I had loaded around the time I posted this as H335 was listed by Nosler in their data and I had a random pound. Accuracy was best at max charge, but around 1.5 MOA at best.
Certainly “good enough” for most hunting, but I’m going to try another powder or two just because
Did you use a magnum primer?
I've shot a good bit of Milsurplus H335 and BLc-2. On average, BLC-2's turned in the better groups for me.
Just another option to consider..
I used a standard primer, Fed 210
The best accuracy plus the best velocity = H4895 in my 350 RM’s
Which is nearly identical to the Whalen for vase capacity.
The best accuracy plus the best velocity = H4895 in my 350 RM’s
Which is nearly identical to the Whalen for vase capacity.
H4895 is on my list. I’ve heard it referenced several times and in various Google searches as an accurate powder for the lighter, 200 gr and under, Whelen bullets.
I may just try it next and save the CFE223 for my .233 and .308 loads.
Thanks for the responses. I tried a load ladder with H335, which I had loaded around the time I posted this as H335 was listed by Nosler in their data and I had a random pound. Accuracy was best at max charge, but around 1.5 MOA at best.
Certainly “good enough” for most hunting, but I’m going to try another powder or two just because
Did you use a magnum primer?
I've shot a good bit of Milsurplus H335 and BLc-2. On average, BLC-2's turned in the better groups for me.
Just another option to consider..
I used a standard primer, Fed 210
H335 likes magnum primers. Even in the .223 it makes a significant difference in group size.
64.5 grains of CFE 223 gave me 2,720 fps with 225 Partitions. I had tried 200 gr Accubonds with others and didn’t shoot worth diddly in my 22” M700. 225 Accubonds shot a little better but not much. Partitions shot well. Happy Trails
I actually found what I think is a good load using H4895 with the 200 gr Accubonds. that will shoot three into a group just a little over an 1" at 100 yards from my rebored .35 Whelen.
I'm probably going to try CFE223 in the 225 Accubonds next.
Good information. I’m posting so I can easily find this again. My barrel and project have been delayed due to COVID. Order was placed to Shilen on January 28th and my 35 Whelen barrel ships this Friday. Frustrating but I get it. Hopefully it’ll be together soon enough to get it on paper and minute of critter for my October bear hunt.
[/i]Thanks for looking at this! I’m assuming this is a QuickLOAD output? If I’m reading it right, the max CFE223 charge would be 65.7 gr for the given parameters?
Tannhauser,
Yes, the output is from Quickload. The table of various powders I provided is about 3% below SAAMI max to allow for variations in powder lots etc. Keep in mind, since a lot of Whelens were built on odd actions, the SAAMI specss are pretty low, at around 58K PSI. If your rifle's built on a strong modern action, you may have some additional room to play. As always, if you choose to play, do so carefully.
[i]Antelope Sniper.
Thanks VERY much for the time you spent running the quickloads data. I just wanted to point out that the SAMMI max for the 35 Whelen is actually 62,000 PSI. I believe the CIP max [i]is[/i] 58,000 though. And I am thinking the new Speer and Sierra data that give such spectacular performance in the Whelen are approaching the 62K value. Your first table above indicates about 2950 FPS for a 62K load and that is consistent with what we're seeing from those publishers, and what I ended up with using Varmint with the 200 TTSX in the thread I linked to above.
Cheers, and thanks again,
Rex
EDIT: Sorry, accidently put all that italics in there and now I can't get rid of it!
[/i][i]
Still catching up on newer powders, so I got a pound of both CFE223 & PP2000 to try in my 700 Classic Whelen per Sierra & Speer's newest manuals. CFE223 worked poorly in my rifle with 200s. Pressure peaked way before Sierra's max loads with absolute max in my rifle barely breaking 2900fps. Accuracy started out mediocre at low charges then became less than lousy at the higher charges, but seemed to be tightening again as the charge got sticky past max. Hoping the PP2000 works better.
Regarding brass... finally out of usable LC67, the new box of Hornady brass was too short for my chamber & developed that ring you see before the case separates on the 1st firing on about 1/2 of the cases, so unfired RP Whelen brass from when Remington brought out the Classic was used,. Sierra used Norma brass, Speer used Federal brass, This could be some of the difference as well as lot to lot of powder variation & 2" of barrel. It's just not worth testing to find out why.
I strongly agree with the above posters about H4895 or RL15 being optimal for speed/accuracy at c.2850fps. So far RL15 is a wee bit more accurate in my rifle but about 35fps slower than H4895 with accuracy loads. IMR 4064 is still a usable but crunchy Whelen powder as is 3031 with 200s. .
Trex,
Glad to hear that worked out for you.
Thanks for the field report!
I finally got my 35 Whelen the day after Labor Day. I ended using a load suggested and used by several other acquaintances. I’m running 59.5 grains of RL15, WLR primers behind a Speer 250 grain Hot Cor. I worked up to this carefully by .1 grain increments with zero signs of excessive pressure. And, yes I know what to look for after doing lots of screwing around with a 280AI. I’ve seen a few squashed primers, extractor marks, blown primers and separated case heads and felt a sticky/heavy bolt lift. None of which was observed with the Whelen. My particular rifle is a SS, Ruger M77 Hawkeye with a Shilen SS 1:14” twist super premium match grade barrel and chamber with a finished length just over 23”. I dialed it in for 100 yards as I was “breaking in” the barrel. I got shots #10, #11 and #12 into a sub MOA group. I said good enough and finished off the box of twenty by ringing the 8” gong at 250 yards eight for eight. I’m suspecting things will only get better but my time is limited for now until my October pilgrimage to bear camp. I hope I can get some blood on it then.
So, for all of you Whelen fans or 35 cal fans: 225’s or 250’s. Is there any appreciable difference in a Whelen? I’m thinking I’m set with my load and I have heard that the 250 Partition shoots and has a similar profile/shape as the Hot Cor. Not sure how true that is because I KNOW that the partitions have a tendency to reach pressure quicker than other designs.
You can't just sub the PT for the Hot-Cor...more bearing surface, so more pressure. Found that out myself.
You can't just sub the PT for the Hot-Cor...more bearing surface, so more pressure. Found that out myself.
I’m right there with you on that. The load information I borrowed was a load using information from several others who have used as much as 61.0+ grains of RL15 with a 250 partition in there Whelens. I’ve heard that the Hot Cor has a similar nose profile and hits relatively to the same POI as the partition. I know the partition will obturate more easily than others and will come up on pressure faster so I carefully used the data. If and when I make the switch to the partition I’ll work up to that load cautiously. I doubt there is much out there on this continent that will shrug off a 250 Hot Cor with that powder charge behind it.
You can't just sub the PT for the Hot-Cor...more bearing surface, so more pressure. Found that out myself.
Interestingly, I have found the opposite over the 25+ years I have been working with the Whelen (mine's an AI, but same-same). I have found the Speer 250 HotCor to be the perfect analog to the Nosler 250 Partition in my rifle, and I use the HotCor for any initial load work with new powders before switching over to the $1.00 bullets. I get the same velocity, pressure (near as I can measure) and POI for a given charge of powder with the 250 HotCor as the 250 Partition. YMMV, I reckon.
Speaking of new powder, Power Pro 2000MR has been astounding to me in my rifle with both 225 and 250 bullets.
With 200s (Barnes TTSX) I get nearly 3000 FPS with Power Pro Varmint (2000MR is, IMO, too slow for the 200 grains).
I put a lot of research on this thread that might be helpful. You'll have to wade through a bunch of gum-flapping to get the good stuff but it's there:
My work with Power Pro Powders in the WhelenCheers,
Rex
Well I went to your link and read the whole thing. I found that I had even replied to it in the past. I did however decline to test the 2000MR powder's effect on the three discs I had replaced in my neck out of an odd and unusual spat of self preservation.