In the past I've done the old torch and brass in a drill bit deal. Always seemed to do the trick.
However, I got to reading across the internet about the science of annealing. What temperatures it really takes. And more importantly, what consistency is required to see the real impact of annealing.
All in all, the science seems to show that my torch and drill technique was doing little to no good, and a waste of time. How wonderful.
So....how many have jumped down the Brass Annealing Rabbit Hole? And how far have you gone? Annealing machine? Induction annealing?
How do you know that what you were doing was of little or no good? Case necks splitting? When you seated bullets did you notice varying neck tension? What kind of ES/SD were you getting with your loads? I use the torch technique and have been happy enough with it that I haven't touched the salt bath annealing supplies I bought a year or so ago.
I just made this. I am waiting on a metal torch holder bracket and the tempilaq paint to show up. From some trial runs with junk brass, it seems like it will work pretty well.
I used plans that are available online. Total cost was right at $100 for all materials.
How do you know that what you were doing was of little or no good?
Some of the science that AMP and others have done is pretty telling.
Some of AMP's "science" has some truth...........some propaganda........some bull schit
that said the AMP induction system might be the best way to go but not everybody wants to spend a couple grand
the torch systems work if done properly, lately I have been doing the salt bath method. it works very well but is by far the most labor intensive of the 3 methods
For my goals a torch based annealer has been more than satisfactory. I am a hunter, not a bench rest shooter. I wanted to extend my brass life and if accuracy was better on cases with a higher number of firings so be it. After doing my research I ended up with a Mikes Bench Rest annealer. This one works the same as all of the other torch based machines but comes in a complete package that I didn't have to add this and that to for all the different cartridges that I load for. I haven't had any neck splits since I started annealing 3(?) years ago and I can feel the difference both when trimming cases and when seating bullets in cases with several firings on them. If you want to spend a couple of grand I'm sure you will be pleased but you definitely don't need to.
In the past I've done the old torch and brass in a drill bit deal. Always seemed to do the trick.
However, I got to reading across the internet about the science of annealing. What temperatures it really takes. And more importantly, what consistency is required to see the real impact of annealing.
All in all, the science seems to show that my torch and drill technique was doing little to no good, and a waste of time. How wonderful.
So....how many have jumped down the Brass Annealing Rabbit Hole? And how far have you gone? Annealing machine? Induction annealing?
Interested to hear...
I anneal using a Mike’s Reloading Bench machine. I set the duration using 750 degree tempilaq. My shoulder bump and neck tension are consistent and case life is good. Must be doing something right..,
In a field (handloading/shooting) where absolute precision is sought after (and claimed), I will say once again that a great many of us have fooled ourselves for a long time in regards to annealing.
How do you know that what you were doing was of little or no good?
Some of the science that AMP and others have done is pretty telling.
Some of AMP's "science" has some truth...........some propaganda........some bull schit
that said the AMP induction system might be the best way to go but not everybody wants to spend a couple grand
the torch systems work if done properly, lately I have been doing the salt bath method. it works very well but is by far the most labor intensive of the 3 methods
This.
I use a simple torch and roll the case in my fingers for a fixed time, at a fixed position in the flame. Certainly not the most sophisticated or consistent method, but it prevents split necks and neck tension is consistent enough that my groups and velocity dispersion are small enough for my needs.
Back a while when I started doing my own loading, I did do some annealing of the brass I did the stand them in water, heat the necks/shoulder and tip them over method.
I also load brass for a specific gun. I full length size to just start to feel the crush. I shoot bolt actions and single shots. I gave up the annealing step. I have brass go 16 firings and counting in rounds like the 243 and 6.5x284 just full length sizing to the chamber I am loading for.
I have a 270 that you will only get 5 firings max out of no matter what you do. But it shoots really great and holds zero year round. I tolerate the brass getting tired with this gun. It is a killer.
One split neck in a batch and I will probably do one more loading and watch for more issues. If more splitting, I scrap that batch of brass with few regrets when the firings have been in double digits.
I just made this. I am waiting on a metal torch holder bracket and the tempilaq paint to show up. From some trial runs with junk brass, it seems like it will work pretty well.
I used plans that are available online. Total cost was right at $100 for all materials.
I need another setup for annealing, as it's a slow process for me. I think maybe my torch is too small and isn't getting hot fast enough, as it seems to take forever. I use Templaq for most annealing, putting the cases in a drill and turning them. I also have not used Templaq, and just eyeballed them to what I thought was about right.
I guess if I reloaded more, I'd be willing to spend the money to upgrade.
Same boat. I'm tempted to try the Annie Annealer - induction machine. Under $500. Still a lot more than 2 torches, but yeah. Pretty sweet looking set up.
So then MD and some other guys are all wet when it comes to using the cheap, but useable candle method? Or. do you just feel the need to spend money? To speed things up a little, I do the torch, finger, 5 second deal. Roll the heated brass on my cool cement floor. YMMV
So then MD and some other guys are all wet when it comes to using the cheap, but useable candle method? Or. do you just feel the need to spend money? To speed things up a little, I do the torch, finger, 5 second deal. Roll the heated brass on my cool cement floor. YMMV
No they are not. I have used and still use both torch and candle methods as they both get the job done. I did get tired of the soot from the candle so I bought a 3.99 alcohol lamp and a gallon of denatured alcohol. Works much better and no soot.
I use a simple torch and roll the case in my fingers for a fixed time, at a fixed position in the flame. Certainly not the most sophisticated or consistent method, but it prevents split necks and neck tension is consistent enough that my groups and velocity dispersion are small enough for my needs.
So then MD and some other guys are all wet when it comes to using the cheap, but useable candle method? Or. do you just feel the need to spend money? To speed things up a little, I do the torch, finger, 5 second deal. Roll the heated brass on my cool cement floor. YMMV
Last I knew I believe John said he used the Anneal-Rite.
Have you tried the candle method with 750 degree Tempilaq on the inside of the neck?
I also like to "feel" the neck resistence when I pull the dreaded expander ball through the neck when resizing. Smooth and even, I`m happy. Produces ammo that shoots well.
I hold a case in a propane torch flame for 6 seconds with a pair of needle nose pliers...
Nowadays I do it ever reload..... so far 6.5 Grendel brass from Hornady has exceeded 25 reloads now... and I don't consider Hornady a real great brass....
Years ago after reading Lapua's web site, I read to where they got over 300 loadings from their brass at the factory testing stuff..
so I took 10 pieces of range brass in 223, and reloaded them over and over with 55 gr FMJs ... and annealing for 6 seconds in a propane torch flame for 6 seconds every 4th reloading....
Remington range pick up brass....I quit the experiment at 101 loadings...
Neck size and body die for resizing....
nothing fancy but it is giving me long service life out of my brass and none of it is Lapua...
just a little prudence on the powder scale and that also can dramatically extend brass life out quite a bit...
I use a simple torch and roll the case in my fingers for a fixed time, at a fixed position in the flame. Certainly not the most sophisticated or consistent method, but it prevents split necks and neck tension is consistent enough that my groups and velocity dispersion are small enough for my needs.
If you loaded 1000 cases and annealed them with this method, why not just spend a couple hours at work and the overtime pay would allow you to buy 1000 rounds of brass and just keep reloading and throw away the cases when they get a split neck. It would save enough time and the accumulation of brass without split necks would give you enough brass, you could let them fly out on the ground and not even pick them up.
I agree that you have to consider volume, cost, and availability when deciding if annealing is worth it. If using range pickup brass in an AR, maybe you just reload them until the necks split or need to be trimmed and then throw them out and get more. But on the other hand, 100-200 rounds of Lapua or Alpha brass will last as long as most barrels, if annealed every few firings, and it is very good brass. At $100+ per hundred and limited availability, I want to make that stuff last as long as possible, and will spend the money on powder and bullets instead of new brass after just a few firings.
That’s why I’m going borrow my friends bench source and get my own when available again. I still use a few Ackley chamberings and prep my cases. So I’ll anneal to extend the life of those cases due to my labor as well as my expensive brass.
I agree that you have to consider volume, cost, and availability when deciding if annealing is worth it. If using range pickup brass in an AR, maybe you just reload them until the necks split or need to be trimmed and then throw them out and get more. But on the other hand, 100-200 rounds of Lapua or Alpha brass will last as long as most barrels, if annealed every few firings, and it is very good brass. At $100+ per hundred and limited availability, I want to make that stuff last as long as possible, and will spend the money on powder and bullets instead of new brass after just a few firings.
This^^^
And.....given the Panic Pandemic new brass ain't necessarily easy to come by. And.....a lot of brass isn't annealed from the factory, and by annealing it makes it easier to get straight necks (I've proven this to myself) and more consistent neck tension.
Reloading isn't (usually) a chore to me and I enjoy it--it's a hobby within a hobby, and a lots of methods can be employed to make more accurate ammo.
I really can't justify the cost of annealer, I use the candle method which has worked well, but I'd agree the soot is a problem. I've also the torch, but basically eyballed the colour change in the brass neck and shoulder, then dump them on a wet towel. Nothing to do with quenching, just how I do it and seems to work.
I posted a question related to your post over in the Gunwriters Forum a few days ago and received some great answers that really helped me think about Annealing in a more complete way. I had many questions that you might have as well.
I use a simple torch and roll the case in my fingers for a fixed time, at a fixed position in the flame. Certainly not the most sophisticated or consistent method, but it prevents split necks and neck tension is consistent enough that my groups and velocity dispersion are small enough for my needs.
If you loaded 1000 cases and annealed them with this method, why not just spend a couple hours at work and the overtime pay would allow you to buy 1000 rounds of brass and just keep reloading and throw away the cases when they get a split neck. It would save enough time and the accumulation of brass without split necks would give you enough brass, you could let them fly out on the ground and not even pick them up.
I agree that you have to consider volume, cost, and availability when deciding if annealing is worth it. If using range pickup brass in an AR, maybe you just reload them until the necks split or need to be trimmed and then throw them out and get more. But on the other hand, 100-200 rounds of Lapua or Alpha brass will last as long as most barrels, if annealed every few firings, and it is very good brass. At $100+ per hundred and limited availability, I want to make that stuff last as long as possible, and will spend the money on powder and bullets instead of new brass after just a few firings.
This right here..^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
want not, waste not, with the nation under lying cheating DemocRATS running the nut house in DC...
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