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358 Winchester loads

Posted By: minnesota10

358 Winchester loads - 04/03/21

Hello,

I have been following the other 358 thread, but some is for Whalen as well. I am looking for explicitly 358 Winchester loads. I currently have 200 and 250 grain bullets. Just acquired a 1977 Blr.

Thanks in advance
Posted By: M1Garand

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/03/21

My BLR shoots the 200s (and Sierra 225) very well with IMR 4064. Ramshot's TAC and Xterminator have worked well for me too. I have some 250 Hornady RN's but haven't shot any of them yet.
Posted By: rickt300

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Max load of 3031 and the 250 grain Speer spitzer.
Posted By: bluejay75

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Mind sharing your 4064 load with 200 grain bullets. I have some 200 Accubonds to load up soon.
Posted By: bluejay75

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

40 grains of 4198 is a half minute load. Not sure of the COAL but the entire cannelure is out of the case with a Hornady 200 grain interlock.
Posted By: M1Garand

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Originally Posted by bluejay75
Mind sharing your 4064 load with 200 grain bullets. I have some 200 Accubonds to load up soon.


48.5 grains which gave me around 2450-2500 fps. I've been working on some ABs in mine too but am still tweaking it, but I wasn't using 4064 with that one, I'll have to check my data.
Posted By: beretzs

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Gunners 200 grains 10X load runs about 2600 in my brothers Ruger and my BLR. His will 200 ABs and mine with TTSXs.
Posted By: bluejay75

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Originally Posted by M1Garand
Originally Posted by bluejay75
Mind sharing your 4064 load with 200 grain bullets. I have some 200 Accubonds to load up soon.


48.5 grains which gave me around 2450-2500 fps. I've been working on some ABs in mine too but am still tweaking it, but I wasn't using 4064 with that one, I'll have to check my data.


Any issues with the Accubond workup. Nosler 9 didnt even have a 358 Winchester section this time and they make a perfect bullet for it.
Posted By: M1Garand

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Originally Posted by bluejay75
Originally Posted by M1Garand
Originally Posted by bluejay75
Mind sharing your 4064 load with 200 grain bullets. I have some 200 Accubonds to load up soon.


48.5 grains which gave me around 2450-2500 fps. I've been working on some ABs in mine too but am still tweaking it, but I wasn't using 4064 with that one, I'll have to check my data.


Any issues with the Accubond workup. Nosler 9 didnt even have a 358 Winchester section this time and they make a perfect bullet for it.


No, Nosler doesn't include it because they state when the bullet is seated to SAAMI max OAL, the ogive is below the case mouth. In my BLR, I can seat it so it's not and I didn't have any problems. I should try some IMR 4064 since it's shot so well for me with other 200s. I pulled out my data and I've used Win 748, Viht 135, TAC and Xterminator. Win 748 only gave me about 2300 fps with 50 grains; Viht 135 2550 with 49.0 grains; TAC 2574 with 50 grains and Xterminator 2578 with 48.5 grains.


Posted By: bluejay75

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

M1,

Which shot best for you? I have Tac and 748. And I’m shooting them in a Jes Rebore Savage. I can get near 2.800 or longer if I need to. And I only have one 358 so no issues with the ammo not working for another gun.

Thanks much good sir.
Posted By: hanco

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

I use H 4895 with 180 Barnes TTSX in mine. Slaps pigs hard. Killed this weekend

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Posted By: Dirtfarmer

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

I'll bet that big bullet does smack those piggies pretty hard.

Makes good pigs out of them...

DF
Posted By: Dirtfarmer

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Originally Posted by M1Garand
My BLR shoots the 200s (and Sierra 225) very well with IMR 4064. Ramshot's TAC and Xterminator have worked well for me too. I have some 250 Hornady RN's but haven't shot any of them yet.

To me, 250's are best left for the Whelen and larger capacity cases. They're pretty slow in the smaller .358 round.

I've found that X-Term loads can get to full power without compression needed with TAC. I know JB's excellent .358 Win article used mainly TAC with magnum primers. I'm using mag primers with all my .358 loads. I have a lot of them, am running low on std LR primers, so using what I have. And ball powders, reportedly, do very well with mag primers.

I've also used RL-7 with lighter bullets. I've loaded the 150 gr. and 160 gr. CEB Raptors, have 178 gr. Hammers to try. Check those out on line. My gun likes the 170 Gold dot and 180 XTP revolver bullets, shooting both MOA or better. Nathan Forest in NZ says the 170 Gold Dot holds up great at .358 Win velocities, the180 XTP not so much. He says use those in reduced loads.

My .358 Win is a JES bored pre-64 M-70 Fwt. .243. It was a bit rough, fouled pretty bad initially until I shot it some, did the DBC treatment. It's settling in pretty well.

I have three different scopes set up for the different classes of loads. All are in Warne Horizontal rings that can be swapped back and forth without losing zero. That beats having to sight in for different loads.

DF


Edited to add link to my .358 M-70 Fwt priject. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15226684/1
Posted By: EdM

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

52 grs of TAC under the 200 gr TTSX.

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.co...920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img]

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.co...920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img]

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.co...920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img]

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.co...920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img]

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.co...920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img]

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.co...920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img]

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.co...920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img]

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.co...920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img]
Posted By: Dirtfarmer

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Ed,

Those links go to a generic Photobucket site, not individual photos.

Photbucket sucks....

DF
Posted By: M1Garand

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Originally Posted by bluejay75
M1,

Which shot best for you? I have Tac and 748. And I’m shooting them in a Jes Rebore Savage. I can get near 2.800 or longer if I need to. And I only have one 358 so no issues with the ammo not working for another gun.

Thanks much good sir.


TAC did, both 49.0 and 49.5 shot well.
Posted By: M1Garand

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Hanco, that's on on my list to give a run, the 180 or 200 TTSX, nice rifle and results!


Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer

To me, 250's are best left for the Whelen and larger capacity cases. They're pretty slow in the smaller .358 round.

I've found that X-Term loads can get to full power without compression needed with TAC. I know JB's excellent .358 Win article used mainly TAC with magnum primers. I'm using mag primers with all my .358 loads. I have a lot of them, am running low on std LR primers, so using what I have. And ball powders, reportedly, do very well with mag primers.

I've also used RL-7 with lighter bullets. I've loaded the 150 gr. and 160 gr. CEB Raptors, have 178 gr. Hammers to try. Check those out on line. My gun likes the 170 Gold dot and 180 XTP revolver bullets, shooting both MOA or better. Nathan Forest in NZ says the 170 Gold Dot holds up great at .358 Win velocities, the180 XTP not so much. He says use those in reduced loads.

My .358 Win is a JES bored pre-64 M-70 Fwt. .243. It was a bit rough, fouled pretty bad initially until I shot it some, did the DBC treatment. It's settling in pretty well.

I have three different scopes set up for the different classes of loads. All are in Warne Horizontal rings that can be swapped back and forth without losing zero. That beats having to sight in for different loads.

DF

Edited to add link to my .358 M-70 Fwt priject. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15226684/1


Dirtfarmer,

Agreed on the 250s. The reason I went with the Hornady RN is they open up easier than the SP at the lower velocities, IIRC JB mentioned this in his Handloader article. I'm hoping to get mid 2300's to 2400. My general feeling is the 225 is as heavy as I want, other than see how those RN's do.

I've also had great luck with Xterminator in it and my 356 Win...and without the compression you mentioned. I've kept my eye out for a M70 Featherweight for a rebore so good read on your experience.
Posted By: Bugger

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

I used H4895 and a couple of other powders, but H4895 was the best in the two 358's I've had. Then in September 2008 (or there-abouts), I believe, MD wrote an article on the 338 vs. the 358. In that article he wrote about using TAC - he got at least 100 fps higher than I had been getting with my loads.

BTW, I save my 250 grain bullets for my 350 RM's (Hornady SP and Nosler Partition). I mainly use 200 grain Hornady SP in my 358's. I use 200 grain RN in my 35 Remington's.
Posted By: Joe

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

I shoot mostly cast bullets in my .358s from 150 to 255 grains. Powders range from 4895 to Unique and velocities from mid teens to a little over 2000 fps.
These 9 shots are with Lyman 358318 HP (255 grains) with IMR-4227:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: MagMarc

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

I tried H4895 for the first time yesterday in my Ruger with the 200 Hornady. Sub MOA with 48 gr. I’ve used 4064, 4320 and Tac. Velocity is there with Tac but not the accuracy in my rifle.
Posted By: Dirtfarmer

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Has nice walnut grain. I like it.

DF
Posted By: Dirtfarmer

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

Originally Posted by M1Garand
Hanco, that's on on my list to give a run, the 180 or 200 TTSX, nice rifle and results!


Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer

To me, 250's are best left for the Whelen and larger capacity cases. They're pretty slow in the smaller .358 round.

I've found that X-Term loads can get to full power without compression needed with TAC. I know JB's excellent .358 Win article used mainly TAC with magnum primers. I'm using mag primers with all my .358 loads. I have a lot of them, am running low on std LR primers, so using what I have. And ball powders, reportedly, do very well with mag primers.

I've also used RL-7 with lighter bullets. I've loaded the 150 gr. and 160 gr. CEB Raptors, have 178 gr. Hammers to try. Check those out on line. My gun likes the 170 Gold dot and 180 XTP revolver bullets, shooting both MOA or better. Nathan Forest in NZ says the 170 Gold Dot holds up great at .358 Win velocities, the180 XTP not so much. He says use those in reduced loads.

My .358 Win is a JES bored pre-64 M-70 Fwt. .243. It was a bit rough, fouled pretty bad initially until I shot it some, did the DBC treatment. It's settling in pretty well.

I have three different scopes set up for the different classes of loads. All are in Warne Horizontal rings that can be swapped back and forth without losing zero. That beats having to sight in for different loads.

DF

Edited to add link to my .358 M-70 Fwt priject. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15226684/1


Dirtfarmer,

Agreed on the 250s. The reason I went with the Hornady RN is they open up easier than the SP at the lower velocities, IIRC JB mentioned this in his Handloader article. I'm hoping to get mid 2300's to 2400. My general feeling is the 225 is as heavy as I want, other than see how those RN's do.

I've also had great luck with Xterminator in it and my 356 Win...and without the compression you mentioned. I've kept my eye out for a M70 Featherweight for a rebore so good read on your experience.



If I could actually find a few of those 250 gr RN’s I’d give’em a whirl.

Another ghost bullet.

DF
Posted By: Sakoluvr

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/04/21

I will add my load. 49.0 grs of TAC under a 225gr Woodleigh Weldcore Round Nose Soft Point. Federa 210M LR primers. 2450 fps out of a 20" barrel. Shoots 1 MOA at 100 yards.

Here is a picture of my son with a nice Black Bear he got. 321 pounds.

He was shooting my Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle. The entrance wound is at the top of the blood flow. We didn't have to track. whistle

[Linked Image]

Posted By: 358WCF

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/08/21

Originally Posted by bluejay75
Mind sharing your 4064 load with 200 grain bullets. I have some 200 Accubonds to load up soon.


Unless your 358 is on a longer action the accu-bonds wont work very well due to the sleek nose shape. The 2.8" OAL short action just doesn't like them. To fit the magazine & feed the bullet will be seated way too deep. Nosler made a note of this in #8. I tried it anyway with less than poor results. IMR3031 & AA2015 would be my 1st choices for 200s with 2015 being 1st choice. Same powders with TAC & RL10X have worked well with 225 Sierras & I would imagine 225 Partitions, but I've yet to try the Partitions.
Posted By: hanco

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/08/21

I have another 99 coming in 358. I hope it will shoot the180 TTSX’s as well as the other one.
Posted By: Dirtfarmer

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/09/21

Originally Posted by hanco
I have another 99 coming in 358. I hope it will shoot the180 TTSX’s as well as the other one.

Don't ya know those hogs are cringing.... blush

DF
Posted By: M1Garand

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/09/21

Originally Posted by 358WCF

Unless your 358 is on a longer action the accu-bonds wont work very well due to the sleek nose shape. The 2.8" OAL short action just doesn't like them. To fit the magazine & feed the bullet will be seated way too deep. Nosler made a note of this in #8. I tried it anyway with less than poor results.


The 200 AB's can be seated and still have the ogive above the case mouth. They easily fit in my BLR mag; I can actually seat them out a little further.


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: Joe

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/09/21

Thanks for the info M1.
Posted By: Gringo Loco

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/09/21

IMR-3031 and Hornady 200 gr ILs work good in my BLR. Both SPs and RNs.
Posted By: gunner500

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/09/21

Originally Posted by beretzs
Gunners 200 grains 10X load runs about 2600 in my brothers Ruger and my BLR. His will 200 ABs and mine with TTSXs.


Yes Sir, RL-10 under 200gr TTSX's for 2700 fps is a fine load in my little Hawkeye Ruger, used H-322 before that, 10 is a bit slower burning that 322, and more compact, never could get any of the Western powders here s had to make due.
Posted By: 358WCF

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/09/21

Originally Posted by M1Garand
Originally Posted by 358WCF

Unless your 358 is on a longer action the accu-bonds wont work very well due to the sleek nose shape. The 2.8" OAL short action just doesn't like them. To fit the magazine & feed the bullet will be seated way too deep. Nosler made a note of this in #8. I tried it anyway with less than poor results.


The 200 AB's can be seated and still have the ogive above the case mouth. They easily fit in my BLR mag; I can actually seat them out a little further.


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]







How do they shoot? My rifle didn't like them at all.
Posted By: powdr

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/10/21

Farmer, I believe ole Hanco is going to load up both those rifles and carry them to the blind. When he emptys one of them he can just grab the other and continue on. That would be good for 10 at a time. Kinda like the old cowboys use to do in the movies. powdr
Posted By: Dirtfarmer

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/10/21

Originally Posted by powdr
Farmer, I believe ole Hanco is going to load up both those rifles and carry them to the blind. When he emptys one of them he can just grab the other and continue on. That would be good for 10 at a time. Kinda like the old cowboys use to do in the movies. powdr

Let one cool while he slays hogs with the other.

Or, he could have a loader, like those Brits do on their driven bird shoots. They use two guns, pass the empty to their loader.

All that makes perfect sense to me...

grin

DF
Posted By: M1Garand

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/10/21

Originally Posted by 358WCF
How do they shoot? My rifle didn't like them at all.


TAC was probably the best so far, 49.0 and 49.5 gave me around 1.2" three shot groups (both groups two close, one out) at around mid 2500 fps.

Posted By: 358WCF

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/10/21

Originally Posted by M1Garand
Originally Posted by 358WCF
How do they shoot? My rifle didn't like them at all.


TAC was probably the best so far, 49.0 and 49.5 gave me around 1.2" three shot groups (both groups two close, one out) at around mid 2500 fps.



Go figure. Mine looked more like shotgun than a rifle with TAC from 48 thru 50 gr. from 2465 to 2519fps. Tried different OALs with no real change in either direction. Too expensive to piss them away so relegated them to the Whelen & Norma Mag where they shoot well under an inch..
Posted By: hanco

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/10/21

Originally Posted by powdr
Farmer, I believe ole Hanco is going to load up both those rifles and carry them to the blind. When he emptys one of them he can just grab the other and continue on. That would be good for 10 at a time. Kinda like the old cowboys use to do in the movies. powdr



Ain’t thought of that!!
Posted By: Mr_Harry

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/11/21

Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by powdr
Farmer, I believe ole Hanco is going to load up both those rifles and carry them to the blind. When he emptys one of them he can just grab the other and continue on. That would be good for 10 at a time. Kinda like the old cowboys use to do in the movies. powdr

Let one cool while he slays hogs with the other.

Or, he could have a loader, like those Brits do on their driven bird shoots. They use two guns, pass the empty to their loader.

All that makes perfect sense to me...

grin

DF




Kinda like how Stevie Ray always had a string-changer at the corner of the stage. Only played but two guitars, but constantly passing them off to that string-changer once he busted too many.
Posted By: Dirtfarmer

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/11/21

hanco's hard enough on those poor hogs without giving him new ideas on how to kill more, faster....

Hope those hogs don't read this, they will be shaking.... shocked

grin

DF
Posted By: Seafire

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/11/21

Without reading the entire thread.... I got to shoot one, once....

it had been loaded with 200 gr bullet, loaded with RL 7...

The recoil felt like a 22.250 recoil.... a lot lighter than I expected... but it had no problem shooting flat enough to hit a rock I was using as a target at 200 yds..

never ever figured I needed one... I still don't need one, but if one came my way, I would certainly purchase it.

The one I shot was made on a 1909 Mauser action with a nice Fajen stock.
Posted By: M1Garand

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/11/21

Originally Posted by 358WCF

Go figure. Mine looked more like shotgun than a rifle with TAC from 48 thru 50 gr. from 2465 to 2519fps. Tried different OALs with no real change in either direction. Too expensive to piss them away so relegated them to the Whelen & Norma Mag where they shoot well under an inch..


I got a pretty good deal on mine at SPS, I'll play with them some more, Once they're gone, I don't know if I'd get more or see much advantage over other 200 grain loads that already work for me. With current Midway pricing (nearly $70/50) and most likely SPS going up on theirs, I'm with you on pissing them away....


Posted By: TRexF16

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/12/21

Originally Posted by M1Garand
Originally Posted by bluejay75
Originally Posted by M1Garand
Originally Posted by bluejay75
Mind sharing your 4064 load with 200 grain bullets. I have some 200 Accubonds to load up soon.


48.5 grains which gave me around 2450-2500 fps. I've been working on some ABs in mine too but am still tweaking it, but I wasn't using 4064 with that one, I'll have to check my data.


Any issues with the Accubond workup. Nosler 9 didnt even have a 358 Winchester section this time and they make a perfect bullet for it.


No, Nosler doesn't include it because they state when the bullet is seated to SAAMI max OAL, the ogive is below the case mouth. In my BLR, I can seat it so it's not and I didn't have any problems. I should try some IMR 4064 since it's shot so well for me with other 200s. I pulled out my data and I've used Win 748, Viht 135, TAC and Xterminator. Win 748 only gave me about 2300 fps with 50 grains; Viht 135 2550 with 49.0 grains; TAC 2574 with 50 grains and Xterminator 2578 with 48.5 grains.



M1, Thanks for all the contributions to this thread, especially your findings with the 200 NAB, OAL-wise.
But the reference that Bluejay made in the quoted post above is to the Nosler Manual #9. I think you are talking about a statement they made in #8. They did not say anything about the .358 Win in #9 because they dropped that cartridge completely from the manual, despite making what may be the world's best bullet for this round, the 225 Partition.
In addition to this travesty, they also dropped the .284 Win and a few other great cartridges. They incorporated a few new ones (mostly Nosler proprietary rounds) but I don't get the requirement to drop other great rounds to bring in new ones. Hell, we are buying the manual for DATA! if it needs to be three inches thick to accommodate the data, so be it! We'll pay the price, if it's any good.
Not to derail the thread but I was real disappointed to see these omissions in the new Nosler manual. To get back to the main subject...
Last year I ran 51/TAC with the 200 TTSX, Fed 215, Win Brass, in my 22" M99, and this gave 2700+ FPS. Run the numbers on that and it is darn effective out to 400 yards. I killed my AZ elk with this load in 2020.

Cheers,
Rex
Posted By: M1Garand

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/12/21

Originally Posted by TRexF16

M1, Thanks for all the contributions to this thread, especially your findings with the 200 NAB, OAL-wise.
But the reference that Bluejay made in the quoted post above is to the Nosler Manual #9. I think you are talking about a statement they made in #8. They did not say anything about the .358 Win in #9 because they dropped that cartridge completely from the manual, despite making what may be the world's best bullet for this round, the 225 Partition.

Cheers,
Rex


Rex,
Yeah, I read that as the 200 AB wasn't in the 358 load data, I didn't realize they dropped it completely! I had emailed Nosler and one of their a customer service reps, Mike Seay, emailed me back stating this about the 200 AB. If I ever see the 225 Partition on SPS, It's on the list. I wish Hornady would make a 225 Interlock too.
Posted By: Dirtfarmer

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/12/21

Originally Posted by Seafire
Without reading the entire thread.... I got to shoot one, once....

it had been loaded with 200 gr bullet, loaded with RL 7...

The recoil felt like a 22.250 recoil.... a lot lighter than I expected... but it had no problem shooting flat enough to hit a rock I was using as a target at 200 yds..

never ever figured I needed one... I still don't need one, but if one came my way, I would certainly purchase it.

The one I shot was made on a 1909 Mauser action with a nice Fajen stock.

Right now, my fav three .358 Win powders are RL-7 for lighter bullets, X-Terminator and TAC for others. My gun is a 12 twist, but does seem to favor lighter bullets.

DF
Posted By: powdr

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/17/21

Anyone compare AA2015 to TAC w/different bullets? powdr
Posted By: Biggs300

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/17/21

After trying several bullet/powder combinations, I have finally settled on 48 gr. TAC under 225 gr. Sierra GK's for my Ruger M77 Hawkeye SS. Nosler Partitions would have been my first choice, but they didn't group as well as the SGK's.
Posted By: GSPfan

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/18/21

My rifle is a Pre64 M70 FWT. 48 grains of H4895 and a 225 grain Sierra and 50 grains of H4895 and a 200 grain Remington (IIRC) PSP are very good choices for me. The 200 grain load will clover leaf three shots.
Posted By: Dirtfarmer

Re: 358 Winchester loads - 04/20/21

Originally Posted by powdr
Anyone compare AA2015 to TAC w/different bullets? powdr

I have both, haven’t compared them with different bullets.

2015 is closer on the burn rate chart to H-322 and Benchmark, about equal distance between RL-7 and RL-10.

TAC is slower, burn rate around H-335 and A-2495, the latter reportedly made for .308.

I haven’t gotten as good of groups with the slower powders. X-Term seems to be compromise with good results.

There are so many bullets and so many powders that work in the 358 Win that one just needs to see what his gun likes.

DF
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