Once fired Winchester brass, cci standard primers, 200 grain hotcor, leverevolution powder, 2.785" C.OA.L.

22" barrel Ruger American

44 grains 2515 fps
45 grains 2569 fps
46 grains 2614 fps
47 grains 2656 fps

Said "uncle" at 47 grains. Easy extraction and flat primers but not cratered. Wait one and I'll check primer pockets........

Reprimed for a 3rd firing:

Tight primer pockets 44-46 grains.

47 grains, loose primer pockets.

Great data! Curious - how did you decide on LVR?

Close in burn rate to 2000 Mr, which I've loaded in the 308 Winchester for over a decade, also using various 200 grain bullets.

LVR is a weird powder.

With 2000 MR beyond 47 grains you'd get the typical sticky extraction.

With leverevolution at 47 grains,

You get easy extraction, but loose primer pockets using the same lot of Winchester brass.

That’s outstanding Michael!!!! I was thinking about trying lever lotion in my little 308. Mine is an eighteen inch barrel, be interesting to see the velocity loss. I have the identical components.

Interesting! I started loading LVR in my 6.5 Grendel due to its similarity to CFE223 - I never considered it a heavy bullet load for .308 but I’m intrigued!

I bought some lever for the 35 Whelen with the same thoughts in mind. Bought it at a good price too. Haven’t tried it yet.
Bought some ram shot exterminator as it is 99.99% identical to aa 2230 in the aa manual. That for my 458wm.

That will be a very nice load in your 308 sir. Speer 200 at 2500 ish is a good killer.

Great info. I have all of these components (new WW brass). I will brew up some for my old Husqvarna Crown Grade. I don't use it much but might if these shoot well. Thanks for the test.

Fury, I don't think LVR will work too well in the 35 Whelen. In the larger capacity medium bores, it shows pressure signs beyond 54 grains. Since the powder is so dense, you'd be 8-10 grains of empty space in the case.

LVR is a weird powder with a very narrow window of use.

It's so fine, it'll bind up some powder hoppers as well.

Mainer,

What kind of accuracy you getting?

John,

I'm going to load a bunch at 46 grains and settle over a rest. I'll update here on accuracy.

This dmn ruger American has been accurate with any bullet though. Appreciate that fast 1:10 twist.

Caribou opens August 1st, so will use this rifle with the 200 grain hot cors

I have a theory why I'm seeing loose primer pockets as the only sign of pressure at 47 grains:

The powder is so fine, probably the smallest granules I've ever seen.

I suspect it pours down though the flash hole, around the primer, even getting around the little primer anvil, packing around right against the primer compound.

As the primer is ignited, the powder packed down there slightly unseats the primer on ignition.


Then the case is expanded, filling the chamber.

In a recessed bolt face, it wasn't enough to distort the case head enough to make extraction sticky.

But it was enough pressure to loosen the primer pocket.

Anyhow, Winchester is rubbish brass, and is soft stuff. It's a good test medium for full power, bolt action pressures. Lapua brass is much stronger. It has more "spring back" than my Hornady and Winchester brass. I bet lapua brass could handle more loadings at the 2650 fps mark, before loose primer pockets.

Mainer, IIRC you played around with the 200 NPT in the 308 a while back… do you still have that data and how do they compare?

Haverluk, 200 partitions went 2550 fps from 22 inch barrels using Alliant 2000 Mr or rl 17.

LVR beats both rl 17 and 2000 MR by 65 fps.

Anyhow, I'm confused how the gun magazine writers/parrots claim the 6.5 Creedmoor exceeds the 308 Winchester.

Plug any 30 caliber, 200 grain bullet into a ballistic calculator @ 2614 fps.

The 6.5 douch nozzle ain't all that......

As your are well aware; real world experience and application trumps paper ballistics every time. I love my Swede for deer and smaller but its' use is more a nostalgic choice than optimal one.

The sectional densities of those .308 200 grain bullet are extremely high given the diameter and the BC is nothing to disregard. Aside from opinions about frontal diameter... I would stack that load with a similarly loaded 338 Fed Or 358W any day, with similar expectations of performance and results.

Very interested in this as well. Mainer I know you don't like partitions for the lead-shedding. Is that how come the switch to Hotcors?

Edit: I wonder if this powder might work in the 358 win. I've loaded in in 35 Rem and could never get enough in the case to cause any pressure at all.

TX, a few cents per shot vs a $1.40 per shot for similar weight retention.


Haverluk, yep the 308 Winchester holds its own. It meets the minimum bison-legal requirements here in Alaska.

I did Mainer, and the 6.5 will outrun the 200gr by a country mile and deliver more energy than the 200gr. Reason why the 6.5 launching a high bc 143 @ .623 bullet 200 fps faster than the 200gr w/ a BC of .389 bullet out of the 308. I'm no 6.5 Creedmoor fan either, I run a 6.5 swede out of a model 70 I am getting 2860 with a 143 ELD-X. The CM is not too far behind if not equal to my swede load. Now if you really want to outrun that 6.5 CM load up some 200gr ELD-X at 2614 and that 308 will outshine the CM by a lot, 300 plus more ft lbs at 300 yds. Thats what has my interest, If i can get 2700 fps with a 200 or 208 gr eld-x or eld-m at this next 1000yd match by daughter will be whipping some tail. So, I appreciate the heads up on lever powder.

John, good luck. LVR is so dense, you might have enough space left for one of those long 200 grainers, but still get decent velocity. What gun will she use?

Double check your BC, you stated .389. Them cheap hot cors are listed by Speer as having a BC of .556

The velocity/energy was decent out to 500 yards.

With top choice powders like rl 16 or h4350, are guys really seeing velocity much past 2600 fps using 143 grain eld bullets from the 6.5 creed in 22" barrels?

Well chit I was looking at a different 200gr bullet. At .556 even if the bc off that bullet will do well.. my daughter shoots a F class rifle for 1000yd matches. 29 inch bartlien barrel, last match she used 175gr RDF’s.

I’ve been using it in a few spots where CFE223 is listed. I wonder what the real difference is between the two cause everything I’ve seen and done so far is very close between the two.

Folks rave about CFE223 in the Whelen. Makes me wonder some.

From my 18” 308, Winchester brass, CCI200 primer and Speer 200 soft nose. OAL 2.785
44 grains of LVR 2393- 7-3
45 grains of LVR 2436-16-7
Temp was a miserable 85 and breezy. no sticky bolt lift. Accuracy was pretty good. I’m not a benchrest shooter, I shoot my rifles slung up just like I use them in the field. I may try 46 grains but I’m happy with 45.

Frank, thats plenty punchy from an 18" barrel.

My loaner rifle was a sporterized Mauser in 30-06 with 21" barrel.

I always had a half dozen boxes of federal blue box 220 grain hot cor.

It chronographed 2400 fps from the short barrel.

I left the rifle in Kotzebue with a friend and the gun with those 220 grainers has made some 300-400 yd pokes on winter caribou. Probably a half dozen caribou a year.

RL 26 will give you 2770 FPS using 160gr Nosler partitions using Win cases. That was in my Tikka with 22.4 inch barrel. SD was 9.4 Plus it was a accurate load. but it was compressed.

I have been saying this for a while. The articles tend to compare a 150 or other non optimal (in terms of BC) projectile to the very best 6.5 projectile/load. When you actually load up a heavy, high BC projectile in the .308, it is a whole other animal. While I have not run the Hot Cors, I have run other heavy projectiles and they do great.

The 6.5 CM is not a bad little cartridge, within its limitations, has very little recoil, but it is not the miracle that performs like a .300 win mag like I have heard and read about. I have popped some elk with mine and while it did the job, I did not think it was anything earth shattering.

The .308 is truly a versatile cartridge. If given the choice of just one "all around" cartridge, especially in the lower 48, I would more likely than not take it. After decades of using it and others, it is still the one I reach for the most.