Picked up a pound of superformance powde the other day and decided to see if it is really a superformance powder. I have a good load worked up using IMR 4831 and the 168 gr barnes xlc moly bullets, I am getting 3114 fps with 70.2 gr, I figured that superformance would kick it's butt. Being that the barnes xlc's can be loaded a bit higher I started with higher charges, I have listed the results below, very dissapointing.

70 gr 2923

71 gr 3016

71.5 gr 3044
3053

72 gr 3058
3023

72.5 gr 3079
3072

73 gr 3108
3144

73.5 gr 3167 stiff bolt lift
3159 stiff bolt lift
3152 stiff bolt lift

I used winchester cases and winchester magnum primers, the last six rounds were fired with once fired cases, I have noticed that the winchester primers are very soft compared to CCi primers, even the starting load showed flat primers, the last three rounds the primers were as flat as a pancake. Loading data that I have from Hodgdon shows 72 gr produces 3273 fps with a nosler 165 gr partition. The barnes xlc bullets have always gotten me an extra 100 or more fps with a few more grains of powder without any signs of pressure. I plan trying this powder with the 165 ttsx, only thing that I can think of is that it was 38 degrees and maybe this powder does not slick bullets with slow powder in cold temps. If anyone out there has any advice or some experience with this powder I could appreciate some help.

W780 with CCI 250s. What Winchester loads in factory WSMs.

It's only a 300 WSM...it only has so much powder capacity and no matter what miracle powder it gets fed, it's only going to go so fast....3100 or thereabouts is about "it" with a 300 WSM and 165-168 gr bullets. That's what you're getting.....be happy.

IME "super" powders seem to give higher velocities in incremental bumps;not quantum leaps.At least not in hunting rifles and at safe pressures.

You might bump into some combo's that give another 50 fps or so,or some load data in a pressure barrel under controlled conditions,but I'd expect that would be more the exception than the rule.

If a guy wants materially more than those velocities from a 300 magnum and 165's,he should look at a case with more capacity.There are no free lunches.Case capacity rules about every time.

i personal have drifted away from anything hornady says or does. ive heard alot of really good things about rl17 and 19. have you tryed those?

I bought a couple of pounds of Superformance specifically to try in my 300WSM. Turns out it absolutely refuses to shoot it with any sort of accuracy.

One thing I've noticed is that no one that has tried Superformance raves about its ability to shoot knots with any caliber.

dewartt: No, I have used H4350,RL15(lower velocity loads), and RL22 in the 300WSM.

72 gr RL22 gave me about 3130 with a 165 Partition.

It does not matter if we are talking 300 Savage,308 Winchester, 300WSM or any other cartridge. If the MFG advertises 200fps more velocity under the maximum pressure for that cartrdige, the powder should provide 75% of the increase or better; otherwise, it was pure marketing BS and false advertisement.

Maybe they did reach the advertised velocity for the test barre/rifle, but the powder is mass marketed so one instance is not sufficient to make the claim.

Using a cartridge with more capacity is NOT relevant so why bring it up?

Why bring it up? To illustrate the point that if you want to make a 300 WSM into a 300 Weatherby, the miracle powder won't do it....that's why I bring it up....and if you think it will, because some manufacturer says it will, then you are exactly the kind of person they want to sell it to....clearly, here, the miracle powder did not reach the 75% standard you mention. And if you want the extra velocity,the best way to get it is with a case having more capacity.That's why I brought it up..

Because (clue)there will be so much variance between their test barrels, and your hunting rifles across the board, that if you do get what they advertise, it's more a matter of luck than anything else.

And you will bump into many such examples like Freddy had, where pressure signs are reached way before the "promised" velocity increase is reached.

If 3100 from a 165 in a 300 WSM is pretty "standard",and you believe the miracle powder will give you 3300,safely,you also believe in the Easter Bunny.

I have worked with lots of miracle powders over the years, starting with the old Norma and H205's....the reason I don't fall into a swoon over any of them is that most of the "gains" came at the expense of over the top pressure,and the promised velocity gains were hardly ever seen.

Incremental gains? Yes....or reaching standard velocities with a bit less pressure?Yes.

But quantum leaps of 200 fps? Uhhh No....never.

You haven't done much handloading have you?

Good words there my friend.

Dober

300 WSM, 300 Win Mag, 300 H&H are all ballistic twins. Different loads with different powders and a 165-8 gr bullet all thit the wall at 3000-3200.
The fact that most only have 22-24" barrels doesn't help.
There is a reason long range rilfes have long barrels.

A 165 with a good BC and construction doing 3100 will pretty much kick any soft targets azz

I have tried RL 17 and got up to 3119 fps with ok accuracy, so far my best load is 70.2 gr IMR 4831, it runs 3125 with one inch groups, I got up to 3150 but accuracy was not good. I am going to try the 165 gr ttsx and see if I can equal the groups that I get with IMR 4831 and the xlc bullet.

May I add that Rl 17 was supposed to me a miracle powder but it failed in my 300wsm but it did provide some miracles in my 270wsm and 284.

I have enough experience to believe a major manufacturer may fine tune a powder to reach maximum velocity within the length of a barrel (22"-24" non-magnum) and (24"-26" magnum) that provides more velocity than currently available powders or the powders of other manufacturers. And, using a powder marketed to provide increased velocity without increasing pressure beyond the cartridge limit is simply maximizing what the cartridge can provide within that case capacity.

I have bought one pound of Superformance and two pounds of RL17 that happened to suck ass in every rifle I ran it through with high pressure signs far below the max loads, I still have 3/4 pound in the second canister. The Superformance is un-opened but I will try it in my 300WSM.

If Superformance does not meet my expectations, you can bet it won't take me years of "working with miracle powders" to figure it out, maybe just a few months

Owning various 30 caliber mid range magnums (300 WSM, 300 Winnie, 300 H&H and 308 Norma), we can tell you that barrel length is is very important. For every inch of barrel (32" is our longest) you gain at least 50 fps shooting long range bullets.

The "expert" line that a 26" barrel is "unmanagable" has never owned one. 300 Magnums are not " brush guns" and especially, in a falling block single shot, a 28 or 30" barrel is no issue.

But, as a previous poster noted, a modern 165-8 gr bullet @ 3000+ fps will take any NA big game shot at an ethical range.

Thanks for the insight into what the manufacturers are doing.

Interesting post, and made me want to confirm my results using Superformance powder.

So, I headed up the hill from my home set up the chrony and shot some freshly loaded rounds out of my Sako A7 300 WSM.

Here are the results from less than an hour ago.



165 Nosler Partition loaded to the above Hodgdon specs.





I then shot 73.5 grain with a 150 Nosler AB
One half grain less than recommended.

I realize I'm -8 fps off the Hodgdon load data and probably should write them and moan and groan and belly ache about how they are screwing me over.

Naw...I think I'll eat this free lunch.

You think I'm just lucky Bob?

Go back and read it again, I said "may" and not "are"...

Yeah that extra 100 fps will just knock that Elk on his azz !

Of course there are probably 5 other powders that will duplicate that velocity, in that rifle, with those cases and primers at that altitude with that temp and humidity.

The whole thing is a tempest in a teapot aka marketing hype.

300 H&H 168 TSX 71.5 gr RL 19 3118 fps

300 WinMag 168 TSX 74 gr RL 19 3163 fps

Actually a 26" bbled 721 gets 3220 with a compressed load of RL 25 and the 168 TSX.

So a superior, heavier, more accurate bullet does just as well.

Maybe it is luck or your gun just has a faster barrel than mine does, I am assuming that you saw no signs of excessive pressure, stiff bolt lift, flat primers etc. what length barrel does your gun have and what was the outside temperature, just curious.

Temp was about 45.
24"
No signs whatsoever of pressure. I think I could add some.

I bought another lb of SF from a different lot that I want to try out to see how consistant it is.

There must be a good reason why you are not getting the same speeds.

Bob, I dunno. ..Is that a custom tube? A button barrel, or cut?

Some barrels DO just perc.......I have seen the same things with things like RL22, MRP,N205,etc with other cartridges....I know you are getting the vels,but then we run into what Freddy had happen, and it makes you wonder.....

What causes these differences? It could be a mix of components,but I think mostly it is barrels. That's what I mean when I say you gotta be "lucky"...

I had a pair of 7 Rem Mags that showed a difference of over 200 fps with the exact same load....one a Douglas, the other a Krieger.....

Day and day out,would I bet on your results from several rifles, across the board? I would have to see that kind of cross section before I bought in that those are "typical" velocities for a 300 WSM.

And another thing to keep in mind is this...when comparing velocities from cases that are roughly comparable...like say a 300WSM and a 300 Winchester or Weatherby, it is no uncommon to see the lighter for caliber bullets from the smaller cases come pretty close to the larger case in velocity, other things being roughly equal. The real test, comes when we move to the heavier bullets...and here is where the smaller cases get left in the dust a bit.I have seen this in many instances...I think we are both seeing it with the larger cased 7mm's.

I can recall a pair of 30/06's,a pre 64 M70, and a Dakota 76,that would both deliver about 3080 fps with H205 and 165 gr bullets with manual loads......case life was pretty good, and these two rifles would deliver these velocities day and and day out.But would I consider this "typical" for a 30/06?? No....because the same load in a Savage 110 blew primers with the first shot from new brass.....we simply could not count on it and it was not "typical".

This is part of what I mean when I say the best way to make sure that you are going to get the velocity, day in and day out,over a broad range of rifles,is to go to the case having the greater capacity;which is the very reason i mentioned it in the first place,even if some don't understand ithe "relevance".

Variables of barrel type,smoothness,dimensions,throat length and other factors which affect delivered velocity are more or less negated.So, in my view, yes, case capacity is a better way of getting there across the board.

............If I may interject.

The results you are getting with your rifle, won`t be the same as in other 300 WSMs including those barrels which Hodgdon tested.

In your particular rifle, Superformance apparently doesn`t offer hardly any velocity advantages, whereas in other rifles it will.

Variations with velocities given the same cartridges, powder, bullets, charges, OALs and barrel lengths, is just a ballistic normality and fact of life.

Take what you can get and live with what results you do get.

If you`ve tried RL17 and have gotten great results stick with it. In your rifle Superformance may not offer additional velocity advantages.

It seems to me that only one poster tried SF with the 165 NPT which is the bullet that Hodgdon recommends and got the advertised velocity. They very specifically state that the powder should be used with the recommended components and that the gains may not be there with other components. As far as RL17, Alliant has never made any miracle claims just slightly higher velocities with there SPBT bullets. The great claims for RL 17 came from BR and the 6XC cartridge for which RL 17 was a perfect match.

...Yep! And along with what you state, RL17 was also developed with the 300 WSM in mind.

Better than expected results with RL17 from my 300 WSM.

It does look like superformance may not be for my rifle as far as increased velocity goes, I am going to try a different bullet and see what happens. As I stated when I started this discussion I have had good luck with IMR 4831, at least I have a load to fall back on.

Agreed on all counts.

RL17 is the only "miracle" powder I've seen work in the 300 WSM... adds around 50-60 fps over the best "conventional" powders (H4350) with all bullet weights. Nothing monumental by any means.

The 300 WSM w/ RL17 is a 3,025 fps round with a 180 and a 3,150 fps round with a 165. At least if you want easy bolt lift...

He's still looking for the "free lunch".