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Yeah that extra 100 fps will just knock that Elk on his azz !
Of course there are probably 5 other powders that will duplicate that velocity, in that rifle, with those cases and primers at that altitude with that temp and humidity.
The whole thing is a tempest in a teapot aka marketing hype.
300 H&H 168 TSX 71.5 gr RL 19 3118 fps
300 WinMag 168 TSX 74 gr RL 19 3163 fps
Actually a 26" bbled 721 gets 3220 with a compressed load of RL 25 and the 168 TSX.
So a superior, heavier, more accurate bullet does just as well.
Hey NSAQAM, Larry is very "IN", LOL You also dishonor the 28th division by using the unit patch as an insult. As for the liar, welcher Bricktop, his day is fast approaching. Coward trolls won't accept PMs. How's the phantom "campfire" coming ?
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Maybe it is luck or your gun just has a faster barrel than mine does, I am assuming that you saw no signs of excessive pressure, stiff bolt lift, flat primers etc. what length barrel does your gun have and what was the outside temperature, just curious.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Temp was about 45. 24" No signs whatsoever of pressure. I think I could add some.
I bought another lb of SF from a different lot that I want to try out to see how consistant it is.
There must be a good reason why you are not getting the same speeds.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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that if you do get what they advertise, it's more a matter of luck than anything else.
You think I'm just lucky Bob? Bob, I dunno. ..Is that a custom tube? A button barrel, or cut? Some barrels DO just perc.......I have seen the same things with things like RL22, MRP,N205,etc with other cartridges....I know you are getting the vels,but then we run into what Freddy had happen, and it makes you wonder..... What causes these differences? It could be a mix of components,but I think mostly it is barrels. That's what I mean when I say you gotta be "lucky"... I had a pair of 7 Rem Mags that showed a difference of over 200 fps with the exact same load....one a Douglas, the other a Krieger..... Day and day out,would I bet on your results from several rifles, across the board? I would have to see that kind of cross section before I bought in that those are "typical" velocities for a 300 WSM. And another thing to keep in mind is this...when comparing velocities from cases that are roughly comparable...like say a 300WSM and a 300 Winchester or Weatherby, it is no uncommon to see the lighter for caliber bullets from the smaller cases come pretty close to the larger case in velocity, other things being roughly equal. The real test, comes when we move to the heavier bullets...and here is where the smaller cases get left in the dust a bit.I have seen this in many instances...I think we are both seeing it with the larger cased 7mm's. I can recall a pair of 30/06's,a pre 64 M70, and a Dakota 76,that would both deliver about 3080 fps with H205 and 165 gr bullets with manual loads......case life was pretty good, and these two rifles would deliver these velocities day and and day out.But would I consider this "typical" for a 30/06?? No....because the same load in a Savage 110 blew primers with the first shot from new brass.....we simply could not count on it and it was not "typical". This is part of what I mean when I say the best way to make sure that you are going to get the velocity, day in and day out,over a broad range of rifles,is to go to the case having the greater capacity;which is the very reason i mentioned it in the first place,even if some don't understand ithe "relevance". Variables of barrel type,smoothness,dimensions,throat length and other factors which affect delivered velocity are more or less negated.So, in my view, yes, case capacity is a better way of getting there across the board.
Last edited by BobinNH; 01/11/12.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Picked up a pound of superformance powde the other day and decided to see if it is really a superformance powder. I have a good load worked up using IMR 4831 and the 168 gr barnes xlc moly bullets, I am getting 3114 fps with 70.2 gr, I figured that superformance would kick it's butt. Being that the barnes xlc's can be loaded a bit higher I started with higher charges, I have listed the results below, very dissapointing.
70 gr 2923
71 gr 3016
71.5 gr 3044 3053
72 gr 3058 3023
72.5 gr 3079 3072
73 gr 3108 3144
73.5 gr 3167 stiff bolt lift 3159 stiff bolt lift 3152 stiff bolt lift
I used winchester cases and winchester magnum primers, the last six rounds were fired with once fired cases, I have noticed that the winchester primers are very soft compared to CCi primers, even the starting load showed flat primers, the last three rounds the primers were as flat as a pancake. Loading data that I have from Hodgdon shows 72 gr produces 3273 fps with a nosler 165 gr partition. The barnes xlc bullets have always gotten me an extra 100 or more fps with a few more grains of powder without any signs of pressure. I plan trying this powder with the 165 ttsx, only thing that I can think of is that it was 38 degrees and maybe this powder does not slick bullets with slow powder in cold temps. If anyone out there has any advice or some experience with this powder I could appreciate some help. ............If I may interject. The results you are getting with your rifle, won`t be the same as in other 300 WSMs including those barrels which Hodgdon tested. In your particular rifle, Superformance apparently doesn`t offer hardly any velocity advantages, whereas in other rifles it will. Variations with velocities given the same cartridges, powder, bullets, charges, OALs and barrel lengths, is just a ballistic normality and fact of life. Take what you can get and live with what results you do get. If you`ve tried RL17 and have gotten great results stick with it. In your rifle Superformance may not offer additional velocity advantages.
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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It seems to me that only one poster tried SF with the 165 NPT which is the bullet that Hodgdon recommends and got the advertised velocity. They very specifically state that the powder should be used with the recommended components and that the gains may not be there with other components. As far as RL17, Alliant has never made any miracle claims just slightly higher velocities with there SPBT bullets. The great claims for RL 17 came from BR and the 6XC cartridge for which RL 17 was a perfect match.
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
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It seems to me that only one poster tried SF with the 165 NPT which is the bullet that Hodgdon recommends and got the advertised velocity. They very specifically state that the powder should be used with the recommended components and that the gains may not be there with other components. As far as RL17, Alliant has never made any miracle claims just slightly higher velocities with there SPBT bullets. The great claims for RL 17 came from BR and the 6XC cartridge for which RL 17 was a perfect match. ...Yep! And along with what you state, RL17 was also developed with the 300 WSM in mind. Better than expected results with RL17 from my 300 WSM.
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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It does look like superformance may not be for my rifle as far as increased velocity goes, I am going to try a different bullet and see what happens. As I stated when I started this discussion I have had good luck with IMR 4831, at least I have a load to fall back on.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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It's only a 300 WSM...it only has so much powder capacity and no matter what miracle powder it gets fed, it's only going to go so fast....3100 or thereabouts is about "it" with a 300 WSM and 165-168 gr bullets. That's what you're getting.....be happy. IME "super" powders seem to give higher velocities in incremental bumps;not quantum leaps.At least not in hunting rifles and at safe pressures. You might bump into some combo's that give another 50 fps or so,or some load data in a pressure barrel under controlled conditions,but I'd expect that would be more the exception than the rule. If a guy wants materially more than those velocities from a 300 magnum and 165's,he should look at a case with more capacity.There are no free lunches.Case capacity rules about every time. Good words there my friend. Dober Agreed on all counts. RL17 is the only "miracle" powder I've seen work in the 300 WSM... adds around 50-60 fps over the best "conventional" powders (H4350) with all bullet weights. Nothing monumental by any means. The 300 WSM w/ RL17 is a 3,025 fps round with a 180 and a 3,150 fps round with a 165. At least if you want easy bolt lift...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Thanks for the insight into what the manufacturers are doing. He's still looking for the "free lunch".
War Damn Eagle!
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