I got an email back from the customer service folks yesterday confirming that the Speer Deep Curl will no longer be sold as component bullets (even though their website shows it as a component). Unfortunate, as it's the most accurate bullet in my 280 AI.

Is it me, or do they seem to be all over the map? The Trophy Bonded Bear Claw was available as a Speer Component, then that decision was reversed and the TBBC was licensed/sold to Federal. The Fusion was supposed to be made available as a component...then it wasn't...then it came out as the Deep Curl...but they said the Deep Curl wasn't actually the Fusion. Never mind that shortly after the DC's release, they had the whole pressure spike craziness, indicating that they hadn't done adequate testing before releasing it to the public.

I don't know. They seem to frequently release stuff and then fairly quickly pull it back or change the design. They just strike me as a company that's capable of impressive innovation, but one whose business decisions are haphazard. Either way, I'm not getting sucked in again by their component craziness.

Go Barnes no surprises..

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom.

You're welcome..thank me later

Oh really?

What happened to the XLC and a few others?

There are probably fewer suprises with Nosler and Hornady.

Yep...

I still have part of the only box of Deep-Shoks that I ever saw on a shelf.

I also wonder what sort of dust-up took place between Cabela's and Speer as Speer bullets disappeared from Cabela's shelves long ago.

I shoot plenty of Barnes, but I was commenting on Speer and their propensity for marketing silliness.

I have wanted their .429 240gr flat points for two years.
Now looking for Noslers.

Federal was also going to offer the Trophy Bonded Tip as a component at one time. It was even on the website. Something changed, it was never offered. Guess they didn't want my business.

Yes they do some weird crap.

The Deep Curl is the new Hot Cor. No its not. In some calibres it is, in some its not. In some its only for the heavier weights. Wait no, its actually not.

So now they pull it?

Hornadys are cheap, accurate and hold together almost as well as any premium bullet.
Speer bullets have failed me by either not expanding or disintegrating.
Bullets that failed me - 6mm 105 grain - not expanding one iota, 7mm mag tips in a 280 - disintegrating almost severing an antelopes head from the body (I have witnesses), 30 caliber 180 grain grand slam -- disintegrating shot from a 308 no less.

I will use their varmint bullets, but never again game bullets!

I may try the 250 grain 35 caliber bullets as they are almost as accurate as the Hornadys. So far I've only shot paper with those Speer bullets. Speer has let me down and Hornady hasn't. So...

I like the 145gr 7mm Boat Tail, but that's the only Speer rifle bullet I shoot. A box of 30 year old bullets I loaded shoots just like the recent boxes I ordered this fall. I can see where product availability on their other lines could frustrate a customer.......

Yeah right. How many forms of the X-bullet have been introduced, only to see a bunch of them become no longer available.

I like and use Barnes bullets, but they haven't exactly been consistent with their offerings.

^^^^^^^ PLUS 1

I waited for a good while to get some deep curls in .244" but got tired of waiting and picked up some Accubonds instead.

Lets not forget the Deep Shok too...

They can't seem to keep anything on the shelves from what I've seen. Wouldn't surprise me if Speer went titz up one of these days.

Cabelas has Speer bullets on their website. Can't speak for the shelves though.

That ain't happen in'; ATK, parent company, isn't going anywhere.

OP is spot-on though. They're flaky as heck and it's beyond marketing silliness; it's product offering fickleness. Pretty irritating to the consumer when there is no predicting what'll be available from one year to the next!

Not that I am complaining about continuing to get my Hot Cor .257/100-HPs! Coyotes won't be happy though !!!

Even so; pass me some Hornadys...

Those Speer 257 100 grain hollow points are absolutely devastating!

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! That was a joke, right? Sounds more like Speer is borrowing a page from Barnes perhaps! (Not only at least one surprise in every box, often a surprise awaits with each new lot.)

Speer and Innovation are two words that seldom collide in the same sentence.

Things were better before ATK took them over they must be making too much money with all their military contracts to care about the rest of us. Too bad about what is happening with a once great company, there were my go to bullet company for a long time.

I've never met a die hard fan of Speer bullets.



Travis

The only one I really liked was a handgun bullet; the old 225 gr. 44 caliber half-jacketed HP. I shot a lot of them in 44 mag before I started casting my own. Really accurate bullet.

The old Speer 275-grain .338 bullet was one of the most accurate .338 bullets I ever used. Every .338 I ever owned shot that bullet very well. It was one of Elmer Keith's favorites.

But of course, they quit making it.

Ballistic Tip,Accubonds....Partitions. ..whats not to love about Nosler? Always been my go to.

Speer does seem to have some craziness going on...kinda agree with ya on that richard.

Josh

I used to shoot a whole lot of Speer bullets. Lots of HP-TNTs and large caliber hollow point offerings for varmints. Speer Hot-Cors, BTSPs, and Grand Slams for game. Never had a problem, and they always shot well for me.

The old "Sierras for target shooting, Speers for hunting" saying worked well, and still does.

This is going to sound like blasphemy to some, but I had better luck getting Speer bullets to shoot than Hornadys, and saw a few Hornady Interlocks do some funky things, so I mostly stuck with Speer.

The past five or eight years I've been using a bunch of other stuff, simply to try other stuff out. I really can't say anything has worked better than Speer.

I would be perfectly happy going through life hunting with nothing but Speer, as long as they get their crap together as far as offerings and availability.

Speer bullets were never a go to for me. I liked the 275 gr. .338 bullet and the 115 gr 7mm , but otherwise they were not my favorites. On the one hand my ATK stocks have doubled in the last year, on the other I do wish they would be more in tune to the sportsman , other then buying up other companies and trimming them down to make profits.

+1 on the Speer .338 275gr. bullet, 3 shot cloverleaf groups from my pre '64 Winchester M/70 were frequent and it killed like Thor's hammer.

prairie goat I'm glad to see I'm not the only one on the Fire that has poor luck with Hornady bullets.

When Vernon Speer sold out the company started downhill. Before that the best shooting bullet in my 7mm mag was the Speer 160gr Hot Core. But for over 40yrs now my go to has been Hornady. Have never had one fail. I certain some have though. some of everything fails at one time or another!

Spot on Billy.

A few of my really accurate rifles shoot Hornady's well, but every really accurate rifle I've owned shot Speer bullets extremely well.

The only Deep Curl I tried was the 90gr 6mm. It is an impressive performer, both on game and paper. I have 700+ left...

I do hate to hear that they're dropping the Deep Curl line. I was actually hoping they'd increase the offerings. I like options and I too try different things in the bullet department.

Nosler is getting more and more of my business as of late. I think they make an exceptional bullet and take a back seat to nobody.

I'm telling the moderator you said this.



Travis

About the only bullet I really care about is their 35 caliber flat points. I've generally had a much easier time getting Nosler, Barnes, Sierra and Hornady to shoot well for me than Speers. Ironically a few years ago I think it was John Haviland in either Handloader or Precision Shooter mentioned Speer had some issues with jacket concentricity for a while.

Ive always had god luck with speer bullets,but haven't seen any locally for quite some time.

Speer bullets that I had work very well:

100g Speer BTsP out of a 25/06, max load of R#19. I could shoot humming birds at 300 yards with this bullet and load.

7/08: 130g SpBT, 42g of IMR 4895, Rem case, rem 9 1/2, mashem flat mag on white tails. Converted a lot of folks with this load. This load is extremely accurate out of 700's.

30/06: 165g Speer BTSP, 58g of IMR 4350

To me, Speer bullets represent a bullet that will give Massive Internal Damage on a deer. I stay off the shoulder for this reason.

If you want to shoot'em from any angle, then go to a Barnes triple shock...don't even screw around.

Is it official that Speer has dropped the Deep Curl? All of them, or just some of them? Do they (Speer) even know it yet? (they are all still listed on their website) I will try to give them a call tomorrow. I have a couple of boxes of Deep Curls in 270 150 gr, and a box of 90 gr .243's. I haven't had a chance to work with them yet, but my son likes the 90 gr Deep Shoks I scored a while back. Still have a couple of boxes of those left. Hopefully we can shoot something soon to see how they work on critters.

I would love to find a box or two of the 25 cal 100gr Hot Cors. My 250 savage really likes that bullet.

Speer will re-introduce the Deep Curl under a different name for double the price.

Ha ha. A joke you think?

Watch.

Back in the day, my dad and I frequented the Lewiston/Clearwater area. We bought the Speers by the bag full at Lolo Sporting Goods. I still have a few bags, but as already pointed out there availability has left much to be desired over the years. I now pretty much use Noslers for game and Hornady/Sierra's for fun.

I suspect this was litigation-fear driven.

Since the DC's caused higher pressures than other projectiles at the same powder charge, those projectiles presented a lawsuit risk to ATK.

Thats a risk they wont bear if they are all loaded by their sister company Federal, under strict loading supervision.

Just a theory.... but in this day and age, it sounds right. Sadly, I dont think I could blame them, either.

shane

...or maybe they are idjit's like big Green.

Whatever the reloading component is (bullet, powder, brass) and whoever makes it - if it works well for me I buy a lot of them. Been through this too often; i.e., when Speer dropped their 45 Colt 200 grain "flying ashtray" a decade back I went out and found all I could get - think I still have about 850 of them. My wife is going to have a lot of stuff to sell you guys one day!

Hail...long live the Speer HotCor!

I run with a bunch of guys that shoot Savage 99s 250 Savage with 1-14" ROT and the 87 grain HotCor has been the Huckleberry, good accuracy and a demenostrated deer killer. I loaded them in my 1-14" ROT 99, also. Bought a 1-10" ROT 99 250 Savage and the thought process was to chase Whitetails with the heavier 100 grain bullet. Good intentions but I found deer to be just as dead as hit by a Speer 87 grainer.

I buy and shoot the Speer HotCor 130 grain bullet in my 7x57s just to show the boys at the range shooting 270s I can burn their arse with similar velocity.

There is not a more accurate bullet then a 250 grain Speer HotCor SP in my 35 Whelen and performs well on large big game.

Long live the HotCor!

There is probably a lot of truth to that statement, here is a group I got a few weeks ago with them. Speer keeps discontinuing bullets I like but hope they keep the 250 gr Hot Cor.

This! Bought about 8 boxes of the 87gr Hot Cores for my 250's when they announced the Deep Curls. Hornady's and Sierra's are for shooting paper or coyotes.

Were they shooting 160 Noslers?

I've loaded a bunch of TNTs in 22, 24, and 25 calibers over the years, still have quite a few.
87 and 100 gr. Hot Cores make my 99R perk in the deer woods.
Over the last 40+ years I've probably loaded more Hornadys for hunting use, but never had a problem with the Speers I've used. That said, this on again, off again deal with the Hot Core and Deep Curl thing has made me wonder a few times.

Must've been.

Speer IS all over the map bullet wise.

Seems after the ATK buyout, its been going down hill on there bullets.... I miss the old Blount inc. of back in the day, That was my kind of company. Not the malarkey that is going on now. ATK could really have something but seem to not put the energy towards bullets obviously.

Speer bullets were one of my go-to bullets, Not so much now. At one point a while back now all I shot in my reloads were Speer bullets. Then, they were one of the top two cup/core bullets I used on game. The other was the core-lokt

Thankfully, there is other top notch bullets to try.

Nosler is picking up the slack as far as a component bullet brand now for me, and doing very well.

Sorry to disappoint fellas, 130 vs 130 grain. To do otherwise would not be fair, now would it?

Here is an email address to voice your displeasure over all the weird things that have been happening with Speer since ATK took over. I just sent them a message.

[email protected]

Comparing a 270 Win and 7x57 with 130 bullets isn't fair

"Speer is dead to me."

Okay. ??

Is it a bullet failure when a 30 cal 165 gr big game bullet at 2800 fps explodes in a two pound blue grouse and grouse bits rain down all over a thirty foot radius? It was a Speer boat tail from an '06 at fifteen yds, about twenty seven years ago.

Grouse makes excellent camp meat, if you just shoot the head off of the bird. And I used to kill a bunch of them every deer hunt. But one time, I missed the shot at the neck and hit the bird in the breast.

The bullets in my cabinet these days are about 60% Noslers, with 30% split between Sierra and Hornady. The other 10% is split between Speer and Berry's. So I have not totally boycotted Speer.

I doubt that bullet exploded. Just about any expanding big game bullet will scatter small animals all over the place if you hit them in the middle. Try shooting prairie dogs with typical big game bullets from just about any cartridge that gets 2800 or more. The dogs will explode nicely, especially at close range, even with Nosler Partitions.

That said, the boattail Speers are NOT Hot-Cors. They're swaged, with pretty soft lead cores, so typical don't penetrate like Hot-Cors.

In reference to the DeepCurls that started this thread, when Speer decided to market them as a component variation of the Fusion bullet loaded in Federal ammo (which Speer made with exactly the same process), the marketing gun at Speer decided they needed to come up with a hot new name, instead of just calling them Fusions.

A bunch of other people at the company thought this was a fairly dumb idea, since the Fusion ammo had already become pretty popular, with consequent name recognition for the bullet. But no matter how many people told the marketing guy that calling them Fusions would be the smart thing to do, he refused.

The result was that instead of hitting the ground running, the "new" bullets had a hard time getting a foothold in the market. Eventually the word got out that they were basically the same thing as Fusions, but apparently it was too late. Plus there was the whole "we're going to drop the Hot-Cors and substitute the DeepCurls" thing, which never really came off.

I don't know if the same marketing guy is still at Speer.

I hope he's long gone and I hope they re-introduce the Fusion line of components. I truly believe it's a fantastic whitetail bullet.

But then again, so are many Nosler bullets...

I've seen pictures of some pretty substandard deepcurls guys have received too. Lots of lead spilling out from the tip and down the ogive.

I think it was pretty premature of speer to try to replace their 'bread and butter' hotcor with an unproven manufacturing process.

I think the bean counters were driving this one.

Right... but for the box and a half you burn to get the OAL perfect and then they change the design and discontinue the bullet.

You want no surprises?
Hornady.

John,

I shot lots of small game and varmints with that 06 back in the day. I used a lot of 165 gr Speer boat tails and 165 Sierra spbt bullet and then the Nosler ballistic tip when it came out.

I never saw anything come apart quite like that grouse. I suspect I hit it directly on the point of the breast bone.

Apparently you didn't see the threads regarding a change in InterLock location.

I've never been disappointed by the performance of a Nosler partition.

I'm mostly a Hornady and Nosler guy but have used Speer bullets in .270, .308 and .429 caliber. I no longer use the .270 caliber bullets, the .308s are 165 gr. DC I bought from a member here. They shoot well in my T3 .308 and I will use them until they're gone.

I started using the .429 270gr. GDSP in my .444 Marlin rifles and muzzleloaders. I've been satisfied with their accuracy and on game performance. They changed that to the 270gr. DC. Money, availability, and price all met together so I bought a thousand of them. My stock should last quite a long time.

So what's the scoop then? Instead of replacing the Hot-Cors with the DeepCurls like it was previously said, they are completely dropping the DeepCurls and keeping the Hot-Cors???

No no no. The Deep Curl will come back as the "Fusion Core" or "Deep Fusion" and will cost double the price.

I can't see "Hot Curl" getting a run as the new name, though the hairdressers would go for it.

I think you are right about them being relatively soft cup/cores. They've worked well this season in my 7mm-08 carbine (145's likely making high 2,600's). Internal damage is usually pretty severe, considering the speed. Your notes from a few years ago about the 160 Sierra Gameking in your 7x57 were in the back of my mind when I decided to try out a plain-jane bullet for deer-sized stuff with this rifle.

Got another decent sow just last night and the bullet did a fine job on a lung shot. My father and brother were with me, pushing through the briars, and both said it was one of the best blood trails they'd ever seen. I bought a few boxes of the Speer 145's and a few boxes of 150gr Partitions, but the Speer seems to be doing a fine job so far, plus it is cheap enough to practice with a lot.

Nice piggy JPro!

She'll eat!

What happened to the XFB 35 caliber 225 grain?

They worked? So they were discontinued!

And they dropped the wonderful solid base line not long after saying "we have no plans to discontinue producing solid base bullets."

And apparently you haven't noticed that Hornady has put a large number of their bullets on production hold. In my area, you can find lots of Hornady bullets, as long as you want SSTs. Interlocks are MIA.

My J (Jibe) meter is pegged!

Derisive laughter heard all around!

Yep. Crazy times in the rifle/ammo industry. Just hope this isn't the "new normal".

I've recently had some tentative gun purchase ideas that I abandoned, simply because ammo and components aren't available locally or online. Am pretty much holding tight if it isn't something I have brass/bullets/powder for. That sucks.

We had to scour all of the northern Louisiana last week to find a box of 35Rem ammo for my brother's new single-shot to use for primitive weapons season. Must have called 10 stores that normally stock it, before finding an out of the way place that had some.

JPro, Like the way the grill is next to the oinker!!

Yep, I noticed that too! Straps might be bound for the grill, but the rest is probably going on my big smoker next weekend.

That picture was taken under the skinning shed at our camp. The little yellow box at the top of the photo is the electric hoist control, which makes things quick and easy.

I don't know that having a huge parent company will necessarily save Speer if they don't pull their socks up.

If people stop buying Speers, they will disappear, ATK notwithstanding.

Unless the larger share of their profits come from factory loadings...

Remington doesn't seem to play around much in the component market, but they seem to be doing just fine in factory ammo sales.

I like Hot Cors, the 150s do very well in both my .308 and my .300 Win Mag. I haven't noticed excessive meat damage on deer at 3200 feet per second. Just a big Boom-flop, pretty much every time.

I use them in my 450M...

bad news

Please don't let them mess with the TNT's. Please don't let them mess with the TNT's. Please don't let them mess with the TNT's.




Hope that works.

Just ordered some more 300 grain "Plinkers" (UniCors) for my .45-70. That is just about the toughest 300 grain bullet I could find.

I use the 300gn UniCor for my 444. Awesome bullet.

The HP-TNTs are some of the best shooting bullets I've ever used. Also really, really deadly on varmints!

I shoot the 200gr Hot Cors in my 338 Federal. Worked well on the moose I shot with it. I was concerned when I read the deep curls were replacing them so I picked up more hot cors. I used to see lots of Speer products up here but not much lately. Mostly Noslers and Hornady so most are shooting those now. Any Speer bullets I have used worked well and I used 52gr HP in 22 cal lots. Gone to Hornady there now too because I can't get them. Same for Sierra up here. Nothing on the shelves. If they want people shooting their products they better put some on the shelves.

I think after ATK took over Speer became more or less a support company for Federal and Lake City. They did have innovative minds there in the development of the Gold Dot bullet and for the most part the bonded Fusion bullet which turned into the Deep Curl when marketed to the public--which by the way was long overdue before being made available commercially to the public. Credit was never given to the engineering staff at Speer for the development of the Fusion bullet that proved so successful for Federal. It too bad that Federal and ATK couldn't have shared a little of the thunder when they marketed their new ammo. Seem like it would have been a win/win for ATK and Speer. I believe that Federal(and ATK) have stymied Speer's potential since being acquired. I think the company could be much more innovative if given the opportunity and resources by ATK and not overshadowed by Federal.

270

I found a jewel in the Nosler Accubonds. I now have 2 lifetime's supply in all calibers. I have been through these product cut-offs before.

Like Sierra!
Same cup and core stuff since inception. Nothing premium or different.

At least Sierra does introduce new bullet lines, only to discontinue them and reintroduce a line that was supposed to be replaced.

If you develop a load with a sierra, you can be fairly confident that the bullet will be available in the future.

Yep, and every rifle I've shot a Pro Hunter in has been among, if not the best shooting bullet in that rifle.