The settlement covers more than a dozen models, specifically the Model 700, Seven, Sportsman 78, 673, 710, 715, 770, 600, 660, XP-100, 721, 722 and 725
They where sued earlier on certain 700's but it appears the G has forced them to repair the triggers on every last one due to unexplained discharges....this will take years to complete


At least two dozen deaths and more than 100 serious injuries have been linked to inadvertent discharges of Remington 700 series rifles.

In court filings, Remington denied the allegations, calling them "inaccurate, misleading, (and) taken out of context." And last year, a judge dismissed several of the claims, including negligence and fraudulent concealment. But by this July, the parties announced they were working out details of a "nationwide class settlement" involving the controversial gun.

Under the settlement, which still must be approved by a judge, Remington has agreed to retrofit the rifles in question at no cost to the owner. Many users had new trigger mechanisms installed on their own, and Remington will reimburse them as part of the settlement. For guns that cannot be retrofitted, the company plans to offer vouchers for Remington products.

.

Maybe they'll get a government bail out when they go bankrupt.

I looked up the serial number on my model 7 and they said no replacement but offered me 20 percent off at their website??
Is that normal??

That's for the X mark recall. The Walker recall isn't a 'recall' per se and your S/N won't show up. If you send a Walker gun in they are supposed to send it back with an updated X mark trigger in it. I would just put a Timney in it and be done myself.

We tell all of the hunters safety students, keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, keep you finger of the trigger.

I sent my 700 SPS in for a trigger replacement early last year after the first recall. I called before sending it back and was told there was "about a 2-week turnaround time from the time they get the gun" It took them 3 weeks just to send me the box that it had to be shipped back in and 6 MONTHS later I got my gun back. As for the 20% off voucher for Remington merchandise, they sent me one of those too and it could only be used for useless Remington branded crap like apparel, not for ammo or reloading components. Remington is basically dead to me as far as future gun purchases.

Well that covers all 4 of my rifles. Wonder if I can get a job just replacing triggers for them?? They did just open a plant here..

Is the trigger that they are replacing with worth a damn? miles

Beyond being emphasized in drivers' ed classes, it seems like it would just be good common sense to not let people run into the rear of your car, but those ignorant Pinto drivers just kept on letting it happen.

Safe firearm handling cannot be emphasized enough......

I have just one 700, Thankfully Mine has yet to fire its self upon loading.... Its ALWAYS in the back of my mind though.

My life long friend not so fortunate. His older BDL got all exited one elk season years ago and fired itself after we cut elk tracks while driving down a road. BOOM said the rifle as it was pointed in the air. when my buddy closed the bolt as were readying ourselves to take after the smoking hot tracks....He was more pissed he potentially screwed up a close quick elk, he just about left in the ditch after that, No elk was killed.

He had a M-77 the next elk season. He still has the old 270 win BDL, just seems to reside in the cabinet any more....

I think I would rather do the trigger myself, other than wait for who knows how long to just to get my rifle back.

This is a bad deal for ol' Remington

Moral to the story is you can't fix stupid

Sure do love my New Haven Model 70's

Just sent mine out on Thursday , will update back when it comes home from the factory for its replacement trigger. If it had been anywhere near hunting season I would have put a timney on it and be done, but no hurry so off it went.

Mm

I just wanna' know where I can pick up all those original trigger assemblies on the cheap........

Especially SS triggers, and ones with the first few years of production safety levers.

Casey

Sure do love my New Haven Model 70's, too. More so all the time...

my New Haven M70s do nothing my M700s can't, except weigh more...

Some of you guys say you can't fix stupid or practice safe handleing. Well I had 2 Model 700's, a 25-06, and a 270. I turned around from every thing, pointed the rifle in a safe direction so as to unload, finger was not on trigger, pushed the safety off, rifle fired. After 2nd episode I got rid of my Remingtons. I might not be the smartest guy, but I am not sure how I could be any safer. I have 3 Model 700's now, 2 with Model 70 safeties, and a late Model with X Mark, that I replaced with a Jewell. Sometimes the rifles are at fault, and stupid has nothing to do with it. If it happens to you smart guys, you will feel stupid also.

I think the point was that, stupid is pointing your rifle at something you don't intend to shoot, loaded, unloaded, safety on, safety off or in any condition. You obviously don't fall into this category since you didn't shoot anything. After having been chastised by my grandfather, parents and uncles (even the dog looked at me funny) for having poor muzzle control w/ my single shot .22, the lesson sunk in deeply. Another such incident would have resulted in a trip behind the woodshed. Seems like both our countries have suffered as a result of fewer woodsheds, but at least the lawyers are making a living.

Well-said, Kenny!

Finally some will

Sheesh!!

it's been a long time since Remington made M700s that you needed to take the safety off to unload. just sayin'

Safety change. Yes, but most of their problems came after they changed the safety. My original Model 700's were around 1968 models. there have been a lot of accidents since then. Changing to the Mark X did not seem to help much.

and an 'accident' involving a rifle that can be unloaded while on safe does not involve a certain amount of stupidity?

two thoughts here:

first, EVERY rifle I press into service gets the safety function test. comfirm empty, cycle the bolt hard (no click), put on safe, pull trigger (no click), move safety to 'fire' (no click), pull trigger (should click).

second, 40 years worth of WD-40 sludge is not your friend.

You seem like a resonable sane guy , guessing the 700's you had an issue with were ones that locked the bolt down with the saftey on or someone did some trigger work that shouldn't have.

Proof that love IS blind.

Sent my gun in 11 days ago and it was returned to my door today. That is fast turnaround with the trigger replaced and test fired. No complaints, but the trigger definetely has a different feel to it, not as crisp and seems to have a little creep. Still better trigger than I have on most of my guns so no real issue.

MM

x2

The gun going off is Remington's fault. The gun going off and wounding or killing someone is the operator's fault.
There is no way around that.

Guess I should send in the 721.

As my gunsmith said....every alleged AD of a Remington trigger is:

1. Some idiot mis-adjusted the trigger.

2. Some idiot has never cleaned it.

3. The shooter accidentally hit/pulled the trigger and didnt realize it or now won't admit to it.

By the time you old ladies get done blubbering everybody will be scared to walk by the gun safe in fear those M700's will jump out and shoot everybody in the room.........

Casey

[bleep] your smith. Don't fall within those guidlines. Howbout Remington [bleep] UP AND FINALLY IS COMING TO TERMS WITH IT. My 721 did go off and theres no coming to terms with what might have happened. Have 700's that i'm completely good with them.

No 40X`s in the mix? I think it`s a 700 design, isn`t it? Is the trigger assembly different? I`ve always ASSUMED it to be a 700. Maybe I`m wrong....but my point is that in 20 years of High Power shooting, rapids, slow fire etc. not once in all that time, or thousands of rounds fired, did the rifle have an AD.
Am I indeed lucky, or are some of the AD`s killing folks operator error?
One thing I will agree with, any company is asking for trouble when an adjustable trigger is placed on any rifle, just too many people who judge themselves "gunsmiths".

CG -

I too am skeptical and I know some 'hate' Remingtons just because.

I 'have had' and HAVE more Rem 700s than any other make/model rifles.

Since 1976 I have not been without at least 1 and most of the time multiple 700s.

Also thousands and thousands of rounds fired>>NO accidental firings OR auto discharges. So...............

They ain't getting any of mine!

I don't see where they mention the 721. Any help with that?

Talked to a reputable guy the other day who had a contract with somebody to see if he could get a remington 700 to discharge accidentally. He said he filled the action with as much grime dust, dirt, mud etc. many times. After getting the action thoroughly gummed up,...sure enough, when closing the bolt on a loaded round, it discharged. It completely soured him on remington 700 actions. This really bums me out as I was considering doing a custom build on a 700. I am still not sure what I will do.

I'd probably build on a Remington action and try to clean it every now and then.

I'm bad to clean my stuff when it its gets dirty, I'm crazy like that though.

RatherBHuntin
So you are saying you would build a custom rifle abuse the crap out of it and think it was the rifle problem because you never cleaned or took care of it. You would not upgrade the trigger when customizing? Anything man made can be broken if you try hard enough.

Does an aftermarket trigger eliminate the 700 potential to fire upon closing the bolt? I know the previous experiment is overkill but just wondering if the company trigger is the problem?

The problem with Remington 700 series triggers is sort of like an urban myth that everybody has heard about, but nobody actually knows anybody who ever actually had it happen.

Since there are millions of Remington 700 series rifles in circulation and, as with any mechanical device produced in a high volume production environment, there is almost certainly going to be some built-in rate of error. With so few problems and so many units in circulation, the probability of any one person coming in contact with a flawed unit is very small, probably less than 1 problem trigger in every 100,000 units.

Picture it this way: You buy $1,000 in U.S. pennies, 100,000 of them. Throw 99,999 of them on your dining room floor along with 1 Canadian penny. How many pennies do you have to pick up before you find the Canadian penny? Better odds than winning the Powerball/Megamillion lotteries, but damn long odds all the same.

Or so it seems to me.

Yes the aftermarket Timney fixes the Remington problem, and yes I have had it happen to me. It was on an old (but very clean) gun that someone may or may not have worked on the trigger. It was the Walker trigger that locked the bolt handle down. In any event, the Timney fixes the problem by design.

Questions I have to ask on this,because I have not paid much attention to this issue other than to be aware of it;nor have I read any of the cases involved.

But I wonder why we don't see these kinds of problems with rifles manufactured by Savage, Winchester, Sako...etc etc in terms of proportionate (in relation to numbers of rifles in circulation) numbers of lawsuits and accidents.

If, as some suggest, the majority of these "incidents" are caused by failure of the users to maintain and clean the rifles correctly,or failure to follow proper gun handling procedures, then is there something about Remington owners that causes this to happen? Are they as a group more inclined to mistreat or mishandle the firearms?

I understand there are a lot of Remingtons in circulation but the numbers of rifles out there by other makers is certainly not insignificant; yet we don't hear as much (or anything) about lawsuits and discharges with these other rifles as we do about the Remingtons.

Personally I find it hard to believe that ONLY Remington owners fail to follow proper procedures for cleaning and safety, or that only Remington owners adjust triggers themselves improperly. It just does not make sense that these are the only factors at work.

Gotta be something else that contributes to this. I understand that no mechanism is foolproof. But it seems to me that a certain percentage of rifle owners of other makes are going to be equally remiss as Remington users and sloppy about maintenance and safety,and inclined to lousy gun handling.

If one device fails,rendering it dangerous because it gets a little dirty,and another subject to the same abuse,does not,is the one that fails a defective design? Especially if the manufacturer knows that the anticipated use of the devise would be under circumstances that would cause it to get dirty?

So, where are the lawsuits against,and recalls by, Savage, Winchester, Sako, Tika, etc etc......are they out there? Are Remington users as a class more inclined to behave and treat their rifles stupidly, contributing to the problem?

What's up? I'm asking....not taking a position.

Yeah - Two different triggers.

Here's a link to the Remington recall.
Its for some newer rifles with the X-Mark Pro, XMP, trigger (smooth)
http://xmprecall.remington.com/

Here's a link on MSN for the CNBC report.
It shows the older Remington triggers that are grooved.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...or-popular-us-gun/ar-BBgoPPI?ocid=ASUDHP

I don't and wont trust any mechanical safety!
Note the injuries all occurred because someone had a rifle with:
A loaded round in the chamber
And pointed at someone
When they slammed the bolt close or flipped the safety to fire.

Remington can't fix or recall STUPID!!!


______________________________________________________________________________________


I'd like to get to the bottom of this. I have talked to my GS since this has been "brewing" all over the web. He said his practice is to run a safety check on all M700 rifles he works on before returning then to his customers and has never had one fail. He's been in business for 40 years, has tried to retire twice but seems there's still been some high $$$$$.$$ job he can't refuse.

I had a bolt that need some work. He wasn't too busy when I visited so I got to stay and help him. Afterwards he pulled down a M700 with that grooved trigger he had just acquired in a trade. He showed me his safety check then we took it apart from the stock, adjusted the trigger down to 2 Lbs and it would not fire slamming the bolt with the safety on fire. He then cocked the rifle with the safety on, pulled the trigger hard, released the trigger, pushed the safety to fire and it did! He then adjusted the trigger back up to a little over 3 Lbs and it would pass all these safety checks. Afterwards he nail polished the adjusted screws in place.

So, yes I personally have seen a miss-fire - But only because we were messing with the trigger. All my M700 pass these safety checks and I really don't want to mess with something that just isn't broke.

I have no doubt that there are Remington 700 triggers out there that have not been adjusted since leaving the factory and which are unsafe. Given the number made and the production environment in which they were made, it would be improbable that all would be perfect. But there must be a lot of perfect triggers on 700 series rifles and while it is certainly possible to get a bad one, the proven defective error rate as a fraction of the total in service must be miniscule.

I currently have 84 Remington 700 series rifles that date back to the early 1950, shortly before I was born. I have probably owned in the neighborhood of 250 for them over the years and have yet to have a trigger problem with any of them. Being a fairly "gunny" sort, I have spoken with, hunted with, and generally hung out with a lot of other "gunny" guys and I never recall anyone having a trigger problem or knowing firsthand anyone who had a trigger problem with a 700 series rifle.

OTOH, I have seen Mauser and Steyr-mannlicher rifles with double-set triggers (DSTs) go off when the set trigger was set very light and I have seen people accidently discharge exposed hammer lever action rifles. When Bearrr264 was hosting hunting parties, he wouldn't allow either rifles with DSTs or rifles with exposed hammer half-cocked, safeties to hunt on his ground, as he felt that both could be unsafe as designed and were often unsafe as used.

EDIT: I have had one accidental discharge that I recall. It was on a sporterized U.S. Krag that someone had "adjusted" the trigger such that when you closed the bolt vigorously, the firing pin would occasionally drop. Occasionally, not always, not even regularly, but occasionally enough for me to put it out of service until it was fixed by a 'smith who wasn't guessing and grinding.

A guy driving a Chevy with a bad ignition switch on Firestone tires to the post office to ship his rifle back for a new trigger is probably in the most danger.

More or less my way of thinking too ,especially on the trigger adjustments done by someone that shouldn't have done it

jesus...maybe you ought to explain your logic on the M700 shortcomings to the military and leo snipers. they'd probably flock to Mausers and M70s...

I see it like this: if you are looking for money, wouldn't you go after the company with the most?

Bingo......

Lawyers, MSNBC, high profile company, and the fact the original designer didnt like it to begin with. How many AD's are attributed to Glocks?

I still have not seen any talk about, or most important, any recommendations for the replacement triggers. miles

YES

It eliminates the problem.

that depends on who adjusted it.

Toad I will ask it again. I did not put forth a "logic" on M700 shortcomings.

(And whitewashing the issue with military and LEO snipers is has nothing to do with what I asked.)


If it's the "users", then why have there not been as many suits against Winchester, or Savage,or Tika or Sako? Are Remington owners disproportionately negligent in maintaining and using their rifles? I doubt it.

"Going where the money is" has nothing to do with it. Unless they self insure, all the conglomerates that own these gun companies have liability insurance, so the "money" is there in all instances,and for any of these gun companies... Scratch that as an issue.

And ambulance chasing lawyers have no affect on this one way or the other. Walk into a law firm and just try to get a firm to bring a product liability suit....good luck.The burden of proof is very heavy and rests on the ability of the plaintiff to prove the defect.

Before a complaint is even filed,any large firm will have reports by qualified experts pin pointing the defects and these "opinions"cost tens of thousands of dollars, up front. Unless the lawyers feel there is a reasonable likelihood of success on the merits and facts of the case, they will not even file the complaint. The heavy lifting is actually done well before a suit is commenced.

And no law firm s going to file suit without knowing they have a reasonable likelihood of success because: (a) they are subject to sanctions by the Court for filing frivolous claims, and (b) they do not get paid unless the court rules in their favor, or the case settles.Also, don't forget there are defense lawyers and defense experts on the gun company side,as well.

In other words where there is smoke, there's a fire. Or the suits would not have been brought in the first place.

And if , as many seem to feel, all the blame for the incidents leading to injury or death from these triggers rest solely with the users of the rifles, then why have there been no recalls, far fewer lawsuits,and injuries resulting from the use of other rifles for similar issues?

Or has there been? Where are the lawsuits against Winchester or Savage, etc for trigger related issues? That's my question.

I am aware of ONE lawsuit against Remington. but this paper disputes your "where there's smoke, there's fire' argument. the media manufactured the 'smoke'


An Overview of Lawsuits against the Gun Industry

Toad....c'mon. Took me two minutes on line to find this. One lawsuit? There's been many of them.

Read it. It's well known there were internal memos among Remington executives admitting the design was defective. They ignored it.That was decades ago....they ignored it a long time

If I wanted to waste a pile of time finding more suits it wouldn't be hard..

Refutes "where there's smoke there's fire"? I sort of very firmly doubt it.

I'll ask again.....why no rash of similar suits against Winchester, and Savage and other manufacturers? Nobody wants to answer the question.



http://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-lawsuit-is-latest-claim-against-remington/

Well...Ok I'll help you with that:

Maybe nobody wants to answer a Dumb-Ass that seems intent on fear mongering!

hmmm. if there is a real 'problem' why is almost every working LEO sniper rifle in the U.S., and a bunch in the military, a M700?

but to answer your question, seems CNBC chummed the waters with the "Remington Under Fire" reports and bottom feeders come from the depths...like the 'shot in the foot' guy in your link.

Because their triggers work and there are no internal mystery documents stating they don't?

Yep, class actions aren't easy to get certified and product liability is usually an expensive, uphill battle. Big companies spend big bucks to keep the lid on such things.

So, where a class action is progressing and picking up steam, there has to be fuel to stoke the fire. Otherwise, those type cases risk a burn out...

I would never send a M-700 to Remington to fix a trigger. It's a lot less trouble to replace the factory trigger with a good aftermarket one, like a Timney. Then, you know what you got, done deal, settled...

IMO.

DF

"Smoke".

When the trigger's designer says.."You might have a problem under some conditions..." (paraphrased by me),and offers a solution to fix it....and top brass ignores it for several decades,that's "smoke".


http://www.cnbc.com/id/100588488#.

So are we to assume that "snipers" use factory Remmie triggers?

yes.

"G.A. Precision M40A3 is built to the USMC Quantico, PWS Build procedure."

"Remington trigger tuned to 2.5pounds ."


LINK

It's amazing Mike Walker lived to 101 and was active, still working on guns until shortly before he died.

Remarkable man. Not much "smoke" about him. He told'em what needed to be done and they stonewalled his recommendations all these years. Pretty dumb and now they gonna pay a heap more than it would have cost back then to fix what Mike said needed fixing...

Another case of "bean counters" not listening to engineers and innovators.

DF

like Winchester not adding the safety to their lever actions for over 100 years?

Yes Bob - You to might have a problem under some conditions!

See, That statement would cover anyone or anything under any conditions. The media is feeding this to you, your eating it up and repeating exactly what they want you to. If they would just add to their report regarding Rems policy of not adjusting the trigger, or how about safe gun handling, safety checks to determine if you rifle is prone to miss-fires, simple trigger examination to determine if the original "locktite" has been moved or has become loose or is in need of maintain or mention options to replace the trigger (like Timney/Jewel) ect. ect.

BUT NO!!! - They report nothing that could help ID or save or help avoid someone a miss-fire. They are fear mongering plain/ simple and probably down deep want more sensationalism. To me, this left out info shows they couldn't care less about the miss-fires or anyone getting hurt.


Now how about you slow down, breath and do yourself a favor!

Gut check = Do you own a M700? or What irons do you really have in this fire?

Could be the import thing, as those guns are make by Miroku in Japan and the gun squeezing bureaucrats set import standards.

Bighorn Armory makes their M-89 in Montana, a wonderfully crafted lever gun, sort of a clone of the '86 and '92 JMB designed Winchesters. I don't think they have that ugly tang safety you see on Miroku made Winchester/Brownings.

DF

I think Bighorn is in Wyoming?

My sense is to listen to Mike Walker. He, afterall, is the developer and patent holder of that trigger design. Mike saw the possibility of a glitch decades ago, documented the potential issue and suggested a fix. Bean counting brass at Remington decided to stonewall Mike's suggestions and the rest they say, is history. Expensive history, at that.

Jumping on Bob is knee jerk, not rational. Just listen to Mike.

IMO.

DF

Whoops...

Thought about checking that before I posted, but oh well...

Thanks for the correction...

And, I'm taking issue with folks for "knee jerking"...

DF

So he designed and developed this, and held the patent while Rem. was building them? Sound like this might be a lot on him. miles

Well, maybe. But it seems to me he's pretty well covered by his early documentation of a potential glitch and his recommendation for an approptiate fix.

The legal action, it seems to me, focuses on the sandbagging/coverup by the company after being formally notified by the developer/patent holder that this situation existed.

I think Mike's estate should be in the clear. But, I'm not a lawyer.

DF

Don't know about anyone else but I would not CONSIDER buying a lever action with that tang safety.

"there is no aftermarket fix for operator error" seems I've heard that somewhere.

No definitely not knee jerk and very rational. He seems to have swallowed MSN-CNBC hook-line-&-sinker. Yet I don't see any attempt on CNBCs part to present any help to the gun owners. I even quickly offered 5 or 6 examples of useful information that could have been follow-up on BUT WERE NOT. Figure you guys given time could even figure a lot more that could/should have been done BUT WASN'T.

I own M700s and I don't see the problem - That's rational!

I don't think he owns one, yet passionately repeats a known anti-gun media's sensational fear mongering - That's irrational.

there was an element of sarcasm in my post, but I see similarities...

Okay - it's hard to 'read' sarcasm. <G>

I don't sense that Bob is drinking CNBC Kool-Aid. He's just reporting what he's read and referencing Mike Walker's recorded statement.

I have several 700's, some with Jewell or Timney triggers, a couple of older ones with finely tuned "Walker triggers". I could say mine don't mess up and I personally know of none that have messed up. Your's probably are doing what they were designed to do. But, all that good can't negate something bad. We can't prove a negative.

I could say my yard is flat, you could say your yard was flat. We could make good cases for our flat yards, document and establish those facts. We could then say that all the flat yards we know of, theoretically put side by side in infinite numbers, would make a case for a flat Earth.

Now that reasoning, of course, is absurd. But with similar logic, we can't negate what others are testifying to under oath, what the triers of fact (attorneys) are establsihing in court, Mike Walker's testimony, etc., just because we don't agree with the premise.

IMHO,

DF

I never understood why Remington didn't scrap their trigger design and start fresh regardless. Those triggers suck.

Guys this is hilarious.........what Walker said in his memo's is part of the Court records in these cases.It's evidence. It's not CNBC Kool Aid.

The memo was/is part of Remington's corporate record;and was admitted into evidence in a Court of law.Despite what some of you think, courtrooms are NOT the internet.


He invented the trigger. He said it had a problem. He told Remington to fix it. Remington brass ignored him. They did fix it,but it took from 1948-1950 all the way to 2007. They got sued. They ignored it all. For over 5 decades.

In a courtroom,in a product liability case, that is not "smoke"....it's a nuclear explosion! that has defense counsel telling his client..."Hey,we have some serious exposure here and we better get this thing settled!'

Slam dunk, and made all the more credible by the fact that Remington inducted Mike Walker into the Remington Hall of Fame. They MUST have valued his opinion,and no doubt did....but made a conscious and deliberate effort.....to ignore it. WOW!

Of course, that's no problem right? Because lots of Remington users (like on here) know more about the Walker trigger than the guy who invented it! Makes you laugh if you have a sense of humor...

Geezus.

If stupid users are entirely to blame for these mishaps, then "why", over the same 5-6 decades,were there not similar lawsuits and claims made against Winchester, Sako,Ruger,Savage,etc etc for trigger/safety issues? (I have asked this same question three times now and no one has answered it).

Could it be that those makers had trigger/safety mechanisms that worked properly?

I mean there MUST be stupid users buying Winchesters and Rugers too....right?

I know the reason...and so do most of you but some will not admit it because they refuse to believe their trusty Rem 700 have a flaw....The trigger/safety was defective in some ways and could be tricked into firing when the safety was released. The design engineer who invented it,told us so.

NOT CNBC.....Mike Walker told us.

The issue of improper maintenance or lack of safe gun handling by the user is a factor. The legal theory is known as "contributory negligence".Might be called something slightly different state to state, but goes to the issue of the plaintiff's actions contributing to his own injury.

Or in the case where an innocent third party is killed due to the actions of multiple negligent parties, "comparative negligence".

bottom feeders rising to the chum...like bottom feeders do. just like the guy in your link that shot his foot. love your total acceptance of the official CNBC line though. and if Mike Walker was such an expert, how is it that he designed a trigger that is supposedly defective and dangerous?

of course, the .gov and LEO customers are not convinced...

There is one of the problems. I am not saying that AD do not happen, but nobody including Mike Walker could trick them into happening for a demonstration, without first adjusting the trigger until it was unsafe all the time. I have heard over the years that you can epoxy the floating sear and make it not float, and fix the problem. But, when you try to find details, you hit a dead end. There is so much bullscat out there, it is hard to believe anyone. The AD's happen so seldom and the ones that it happens to can never be sure exactly what happened. I have never had one happen but was near one, one time. The man that it happen to had his rifle pointed in a safe direction, and knows mostly how it came to be, but is a little fuzzy on some details. He was starting to shoot a target, when he was interrupted, and put the rifle on safe. Now is when it gets fuzzy. Did he try to shoot with the rifle on safe and then it fired when he moved the safety to fire, or did he just move the safety to fire without trying the trigger first. His routine was broken and a AD happened. He was scared and does not trust the rifle now, but on dry fire, it could not be repeated. Not knowing exactly what takes place is another problem with the law suits. miles

toad CNBC was only reporting what Walker himself said. I have read that from other sources as well. Not the first time I have seen it in print. Its' part of the court record.

To avoid wasting much time in this absolutely ridiculous conversation with you, I grabbed the first source I bumped into. You said you were aware of one lawsuit. That's not true. There have been many.

Stop making the conversation about what kool aid you think I am swallowing from CNBC....that's deflection and not central to the issue.

Did your snipers and LEO's know more about the Walker trigger than Walker himself? Tell me what part of that is "made up". The mere fact that LEO and the military uses them is no dispositive on whether it's defective or can discharge under the right(wrong) circumstances.

If anyone has swallowed the propaganda on the Remington safety/trigger, it's users who believe the thing is flawless...it was never any better than mediocre.It was designed to be "cheap" and that's what it was and is...it bit Remington in the ass.

You gotta get over your irrational emotional attachment to your trusted M700's.. I love M70's...pre 64's even. But a match shooter at our club sent two kids to college when a case ruptured in a pre 64 target rifle,and he lost the sight in one eye.

i have to admit there are better actions for handling escaping gas. I get it...I understand and use them all the time. But I am aware of the problem but won't jump up and down defending them on that basis.I got over that emotional attachment business 20-30 years ago.It's juvenile.

At this point, defending the Walker trigger by making it part of some vast left wing gun grabbing conspiracy is like pissing up a rope.If Remington and it's parent company did not know this,they would not recall 5-7 million rifles.

irrational? LMAO...

either Walker was and expert for getting his trigger into the M700.

or he was a dumbass of epic magnitude for selling a dangerous design to a major gun company.

if you go with 'expert' then you cant fault his triggers, because after all, he is the expert, right.

if dumbass for selling a dangerous design, why listen to him now? after all, this is his trigger that's defective, right?

I've got Winchesters, Rugers, Mausers, Remingtons, Steyrs, Kimbers, blah blah and use 'em all, so don't fall back on the 'emotional attatchment' crap. I just get tired of the same three of four members jumping onto every M700 thread just to spew bile. kinda like the guy that had two M700 bolt handles fall off after "40> years with wood stock Mausers and P64 Winchesters" (his words)

Walker was an employee and design engineer for Remington. He didn't sell them anything. It was his job to create that stuff. No one gets it right the first time....it happens. He did not get it right the first time. He told them that and how to fix it.That was part of his job,too...I think his memo was dated (what?) 1948? 1950?

Nineteen-friggin-fifty??? They ignored him for 50-60 years! I mean you have to find that pretty funny if it were not so pathetic.

Even after he left in 1975, he told them in 1980,please fix the safety.

They ignored him.

It was not just the Rem 700,which never saw the light of day until 1962. It was the 721-722, the 725....etc etc. The problem went clear back to the 40's and 50's.

If bolt handles didn't fall off, no one would comment. I'm objective...I bash Winchesters too when the bolt handles fall off. I think the pictures of bolt handles separated from bolt bodies are funny....no matter who makes them.

I'm pretty objective about Remingtons and have owned quite a few. But I know what they are and where the faults are, too. I am not going to jump up and down defending the things either.

Don't blame me or anyone else if bolt handles don't fall off Mausers and pre 64's....they are one piece.

We are just users here, but when a product shidts the bed,we comment. Right?

Does anyone know how to contact Remington concerning sending a rifle back for the recall?

Thanks guys. I plan to give my 700 to my grandson and I do want it to be safe.

Steve

I am more interested in knowing if the replacement triggers are any good, or are the junk. I ain't sending in a trigger that has worked OK for a lot of years for some junk. Nobody wants to talk about these new triggers, so I have my doubts. miles

I still get why there's so much fuss about them when the cure is a phone call and two drift pins away.

And I don't see buying a $4,000 rifle with a "tuned" Remmie trigger when there are superior options available.

I'm swapping mine with Timmeys just for the warm and fuzzy factor.

Then again I'm merely a simpleton.....

a tuned Remington trigger is a good trigger, and that is coming from a guy with more than a few Jewells, and a couple Timneys.



is your trigger the XMP trigger?

LINK

Miles, a couple of guys I work with got their rifles 'fixed', but I haven't got to try one. I'd like to know too.

As per my post a while ago, I'd never send a 700 back to Remington for a trigger fix. They'll probably install their X-Mark Pro trigger with its MIM metal parts that do break. By the time you do all that, find a Timney and install it yourself. Not hard to do. My last one was from EBay, the new 510 Timney and it was delivered to my door for $105. Done deal, no messing with Remington, no sending the gun back and a better trigger for sure.

IMO.

DF

Does a tuned Remington trigger completely eliminate the "problem" and are the aftermarket ones completely void of it?

I have three finely tuned Walker triggers that definitely aren't going back.

One is a late 60's M-700 .22-250, one is an early '70's 40-XB .244, one is a 722, now a Hart .22-204. They not going anywhere.

The others, including a M-7, are Timney/Jewell equipped.

DF

Probably not. But, I think properly maintained and kept clean, the danger is minimal.

Sorta reminds me of the old Texas Ranger who packed his 1911, cocked and locked in his belt. When asked by a younger Ranger if that wasn't a dangerous carry, the old man replied, "Son, if the old gun wasn't dangerous, I wouldn't be packing it".

Kinda the way I feel about my 700 triggers...

My three are way too good to let Remington "fix" them...

If I was worried, I'd put Jewells or Timneys in all three guns. I just don't think that's necessary.

DF

IME any of these trigger designs can be adjusted to induce the "problem". not enough spring tension does the 'fire when safety is released' and not enough pre-travel or 'creep' will allow the striker to drop when slamming the bolt forward. instructions included with aftermarket triggers detail the tuning procedure, but I've only had to meddle with one of my Jewells. there are online instructions covering the factory M700 tuning. clean them all first, even new, aftermarket triggers. I use lighter fluid or brake cleaner followed by compressed air or canned CO2 used for cleaning electronics.

ADJUSTING A M700 TRIGGER

Thanks guys.

I'm ordering a Timney today.

Your good advice is very much appreciated.

Steve

Speaking of Mike Walker. Check out this link.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/03/mike-walker-remington-gun-designer-passes-at-age-101/

DF

Sure do love my New Haven Model 70's

can't say that about my New Haven Model 70s. Kimber ruined Winchesters for me...

Got'em both. Each has its place.

DF