Those of you with experience shooting 200 AccuBonds in the Whelen: which powder have you found to produce the top velocity? The data I've seen in various manuals and online sources is all over the map for speeds of 200gr bullets, and I can't even decide where to start.
How about Nosler's data for that bullet and cartridge? Have you guys found it to match your experience? I'd like to get somewhere around 2850 through a 24" bbl. I have H322, TAC, Varget, R15, 3031, AA2015, CFE223, and several others in the burn range.
Well, all I ever used in a 35 Whelen AI was 58gr/H322/200x and then 53.5gr/AA2015BR (old style) 250X. that 58gr load came from barnes very first manual back in the early 90s. Work up from 55gr or so. I only used R15 with the heavier 250 Nosler (never killed with it) and 310 Woodleigh (killed a nice Eurasian sow with that, just for grins! :)) I got great speeds with TAX in the little 338 Federal, but never tried it in the Whelen. I also hear good thing about the CFE223 with the lighter bullets. I used a magnum primer with the R15 loads and my ES was around 3-6, bugholes. Good luck to you.
Of the powders you have i have used IMR-3031 and RL-15.
I like 3031 the best with 200 grain any bullet.
For the 250 grain and heavier i will have to do some more testing because i have not shot many because most critters out to 300 yards can't stand the 200 grain.
IMR-3031 (57.5 gr) gave me 2,840 with the 200 gr TTSX in a 22" bbl. It's a few grains over book max. Tried TAC, but couldn't get close to book speeds even after working up several grains higher. Varget, RL15 and CFE223 are too slow in burning rate for the 200 gr bullets, IMO - these are best for 250 grainers.
Re-15 or Re-12, if you have it
Thank you for the information, gentlemen. Who else wants to share experience?
Speer recently published new data, using many new powders. You can access it online. They are showing some fast loads.
I have been trialing power pro 2000 mr under 250 gr bullets, based upon their data, and am enjoying a spectacular combination of accuracy and velocity. It also seems to be remarkably clean burning.
You might find something of interest there.
Autofive's recommendation is worth consideration, but I have only used it with 250's. 8208 is interesting stuff.
It's always interesting to see what QuickLOAD predicts. Thought I'd share it.
Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54425
Useable Case Capaci: 61.701 grain H2O = 4.006 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 115 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
50 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 70%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 113.2 67.5 4.37 2974 98.2 60000 8450 1.040
Vihtavuori N550 115.0 66.8 4.33 2925 96.2 59152 8178 1.059
Hodgdon CFE223 101.5 64.3 4.17 2925 98.3 60000 7867 1.051
IMR 3031 108.5 57.7 3.74 2920 100.0 60000 7164 1.056
IMR 4895 107.1 60.9 3.95 2918 98.1 60000 7878 1.063
Ramshot Big Game 107.4 65.1 4.22 2916 97.7 60000 7824 1.052
Hodgdon H414 112.2 67.5 4.37 2914 93.0 60000 8114 1.052
Winchester 760 112.2 67.5 4.37 2914 93.0 60000 8114 1.052
Winchester 748 99.6 60.9 3.95 2913 99.5 60000 7528 1.055
Hodgdon BL-C2 102.1 63.4 4.11 2911 98.9 60000 7756 1.062
Norma 203 old 110.4 63.5 4.11 2909 98.8 60000 7742 1.069
Norma 203B 108.4 61.7 4.00 2904 98.0 60000 7772 1.064
Accurate 4064 111.1 61.8 4.01 2904 100.0 60000 7376 1.087
Alliant Reloder-15 107.8 61.3 3.97 2901 97.5 60000 7778 1.065
Accurate 2495 104.8 58.3 3.78 2892 100.0 60000 7064 1.092
Lovex D073.6 105.0 61.5 3.99 2892 99.8 60000 7340 1.072
Accurate 2520 102.6 61.5 3.99 2892 99.8 60000 7340 1.072
Hodgdon H4895 103.8 59.1 3.83 2889 98.5 60000 7611 1.068
Alliant AR-Comp 103.3 56.8 3.68 2881 100.0 60000 6598 1.059
Hodgdon H380 108.8 63.2 4.10 2876 96.0 60000 7717 1.069
IMR 4320 109.3 61.2 3.96 2873 97.7 60000 7468 1.055
Hodgdon H335 94.5 58.6 3.80 2867 100.0 60000 7147 1.066
Vihtavuori N540 107.1 61.6 3.99 2867 99.9 60000 7265 1.068
Norma 202 104.8 58.7 3.80 2866 100.0 60000 7138 1.071
Lovex S062 108.8 60.2 3.90 2866 99.0 60000 7357 1.075
Vihtavuori N530 99.9 57.1 3.70 2860 99.0 60000 7305 1.068
Hodgdon H322 100.1 55.3 3.58 2860 100.0 60000 6909 1.063
Norma 201 105.2 58.5 3.79 2851 99.0 60000 7302 1.082
Vihtavuori N135 114.8 59.2 3.83 2851 100.0 60000 6677 1.071
IMR 8208 XBR 102.1 58.1 3.76 2850 98.9 60000 7221 1.069
Hodgdon VARGET 109.7 60.4 3.91 2848 97.2 60000 7405 1.064
Lovex D073.5 97.9 59.7 3.87 2845 99.5 60000 7106 1.085
Accurate 2460 97.6 59.7 3.87 2845 99.5 60000 7106 1.085
IMR 4064 110.7 59.5 3.85 2843 97.4 60000 7288 1.068
Vihtavuori N140 107.0 59.7 3.87 2839 100.0 60000 6845 1.070
Ramshot TAC 101.1 62.0 4.02 2833 95.2 60000 7433 1.073
Lovex S065 115.0 64.0 4.15 2831 94.7 59316 7487 1.082
Accurate 4350 115.0 65.4 4.24 2831 95.0 52263 7906 1.116
Lovex D073.4 96.0 58.5 3.79 2830 99.4 60000 6979 1.082
Norma URP 115.0 64.7 4.19 2828 94.9 53185 7871 1.105
Accurate 2230 96.9 59.7 3.87 2828 98.5 60000 7080 1.079
Alliant Reloder-12 99.7 57.8 3.75 2826 100.0 60000 6730 1.071
Ramshot X-Terminator 98.7 59.9 3.88 2824 97.8 60000 7187 1.075
Norma 204 115.0 67.5 4.38 2821 89.0 58307 7680 1.072
Alliant Reloder-10x 97.5 52.3 3.39 2820 100.0 60000 6473 1.082
IMR 4451 Enduron 111.5 62.7 4.06 2818 92.8 60000 7396 1.069
Ramshot Hunter 115.0 67.5 4.38 2818 92.3 53700 7938 1.103
IMR 4007 SSC 109.6 63.2 4.10 2813 92.1 60000 7395 1.078
Accurate 2015 100.3 54.6 3.54 2808 100.0 60000 6413 1.088
Hodgdon Benchmark 100.6 56.3 3.65 2805 99.3 60000 6864 1.076
Accurate 2200 91.9 53.1 3.44 2803 99.8 60000 6713 1.074
Lovex S070 115.0 64.7 4.19 2800 92.5 56069 7556 1.104
It's always interesting to see what QuickLOAD predicts. Thought I'd share it.
Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54425
Useable Case Capaci: 61.701 grain H2O = 4.006 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 115 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
50 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 70%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 113.2 67.5 4.37 2974 98.2 60000 8450 1.040
Vihtavuori N550 115.0 66.8 4.33 2925 96.2 59152 8178 1.059
Hodgdon CFE223 101.5 64.3 4.17 2925 98.3 60000 7867 1.051
IMR 3031 108.5 57.7 3.74 2920 100.0 60000 7164 1.056
IMR 4895 107.1 60.9 3.95 2918 98.1 60000 7878 1.063
Ramshot Big Game 107.4 65.1 4.22 2916 97.7 60000 7824 1.052
Hodgdon H414 112.2 67.5 4.37 2914 93.0 60000 8114 1.052
Winchester 760 112.2 67.5 4.37 2914 93.0 60000 8114 1.052
Winchester 748 99.6 60.9 3.95 2913 99.5 60000 7528 1.055
Hodgdon BL-C2 102.1 63.4 4.11 2911 98.9 60000 7756 1.062
Norma 203 old 110.4 63.5 4.11 2909 98.8 60000 7742 1.069
Norma 203B 108.4 61.7 4.00 2904 98.0 60000 7772 1.064
Accurate 4064 111.1 61.8 4.01 2904 100.0 60000 7376 1.087
Alliant Reloder-15 107.8 61.3 3.97 2901 97.5 60000 7778 1.065
Accurate 2495 104.8 58.3 3.78 2892 100.0 60000 7064 1.092
Lovex D073.6 105.0 61.5 3.99 2892 99.8 60000 7340 1.072
Accurate 2520 102.6 61.5 3.99 2892 99.8 60000 7340 1.072
Hodgdon H4895 103.8 59.1 3.83 2889 98.5 60000 7611 1.068
Alliant AR-Comp 103.3 56.8 3.68 2881 100.0 60000 6598 1.059
Hodgdon H380 108.8 63.2 4.10 2876 96.0 60000 7717 1.069
IMR 4320 109.3 61.2 3.96 2873 97.7 60000 7468 1.055
Hodgdon H335 94.5 58.6 3.80 2867 100.0 60000 7147 1.066
Vihtavuori N540 107.1 61.6 3.99 2867 99.9 60000 7265 1.068
Norma 202 104.8 58.7 3.80 2866 100.0 60000 7138 1.071
Lovex S062 108.8 60.2 3.90 2866 99.0 60000 7357 1.075
Vihtavuori N530 99.9 57.1 3.70 2860 99.0 60000 7305 1.068
Hodgdon H322 100.1 55.3 3.58 2860 100.0 60000 6909 1.063
Norma 201 105.2 58.5 3.79 2851 99.0 60000 7302 1.082
Vihtavuori N135 114.8 59.2 3.83 2851 100.0 60000 6677 1.071
IMR 8208 XBR 102.1 58.1 3.76 2850 98.9 60000 7221 1.069
Hodgdon VARGET 109.7 60.4 3.91 2848 97.2 60000 7405 1.064
Lovex D073.5 97.9 59.7 3.87 2845 99.5 60000 7106 1.085
Accurate 2460 97.6 59.7 3.87 2845 99.5 60000 7106 1.085
IMR 4064 110.7 59.5 3.85 2843 97.4 60000 7288 1.068
Vihtavuori N140 107.0 59.7 3.87 2839 100.0 60000 6845 1.070
Ramshot TAC 101.1 62.0 4.02 2833 95.2 60000 7433 1.073
Lovex S065 115.0 64.0 4.15 2831 94.7 59316 7487 1.082
Accurate 4350 115.0 65.4 4.24 2831 95.0 52263 7906 1.116
Lovex D073.4 96.0 58.5 3.79 2830 99.4 60000 6979 1.082
Norma URP 115.0 64.7 4.19 2828 94.9 53185 7871 1.105
Accurate 2230 96.9 59.7 3.87 2828 98.5 60000 7080 1.079
Alliant Reloder-12 99.7 57.8 3.75 2826 100.0 60000 6730 1.071
Ramshot X-Terminator 98.7 59.9 3.88 2824 97.8 60000 7187 1.075
Norma 204 115.0 67.5 4.38 2821 89.0 58307 7680 1.072
Alliant Reloder-10x 97.5 52.3 3.39 2820 100.0 60000 6473 1.082
IMR 4451 Enduron 111.5 62.7 4.06 2818 92.8 60000 7396 1.069
Ramshot Hunter 115.0 67.5 4.38 2818 92.3 53700 7938 1.103
IMR 4007 SSC 109.6 63.2 4.10 2813 92.1 60000 7395 1.078
Accurate 2015 100.3 54.6 3.54 2808 100.0 60000 6413 1.088
Hodgdon Benchmark 100.6 56.3 3.65 2805 99.3 60000 6864 1.076
Accurate 2200 91.9 53.1 3.44 2803 99.8 60000 6713 1.074
Lovex S070 115.0 64.7 4.19 2800 92.5 56069 7556 1.104Thanks, RiverRider! I'm always interested in QL's predictions anymore, and very interested here. I should quit putting it off and buy the software. A decent chronograph is a bit higher on today's priority list though.
I've been drawn to CFE, because I really like that powder, and JB seems to like TAC with the lightweights in the Whelen. Big Game also looks promising. I have an unopened lb of that sitting around.
Check the new Speer data. New powders really give big gains in the Whelen.
https://www.speer-ammo.com/en/reloading/rifle
Winchester 748 has been excellent in my 338-06 and 35 Whelen Ai with 200- 225 gr bullets. I've never experienced the temp stabilty issue I hear about as being a problem at 70 deg F or less.
Not apples to apples, but my 358 Norma shines with IMR 4320 - all weights
H-4895, Norma brass, Win LR gave me the following from two 24” rifles and were w/in 10 fps pf each other:
55.0...2725...32 fps extreme spread
56.0...2790...11 fps es
57.0...2825...16 fps es
That’s where I stopped. Hodgdon’s data showed 2689 fps with 57.0 grs. as their max.
I found a little better accuracy with the 225 A/bond.
2.5 year old thread revived, but, that said..."What he said."
I did a fair bit of work with PP Varmint with the 200 TTSX in the Whelen. 2950 + FPS is achievable.
If I did that right the portion of this research on another forum starts
HEREBlessings,
Rex
+1 for IMR 3031, I found a load for 200gr. bullets in Ken Waters Pet loads using 3031. It has proven to be the most accurate load I've ever used in my .35 Whelen and has performed well on whitetails. I use Hornady Inter-lok 200gr. RN bullets and one that I recovered from a whitetail after traversing the chest cavity on a raking shot was perfectly mushroomed and retained 66% of its original weight. With 225gr. Sierra Game Kings my powder of choice is IMR 4064 and I tried Varget and RL-15 before choosing 4064.
proven on the chart posted by Andrew/ Riverrider...
my three picks, in no particular order...
3031, W 748, H 380....
I run H 380 the most for top velocity ( I exceed load data with no issues)...
388/06 not 35 Whelen... but the Whelen is no different than the 338/06...