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Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? #12922939 06/15/18
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HuntnShoot Offline OP
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Those of you with experience shooting 200 AccuBonds in the Whelen: which powder have you found to produce the top velocity? The data I've seen in various manuals and online sources is all over the map for speeds of 200gr bullets, and I can't even decide where to start.

How about Nosler's data for that bullet and cartridge? Have you guys found it to match your experience? I'd like to get somewhere around 2850 through a 24" bbl. I have H322, TAC, Varget, R15, 3031, AA2015, CFE223, and several others in the burn range.


I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #12923105 06/15/18
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Well, all I ever used in a 35 Whelen AI was 58gr/H322/200x and then 53.5gr/AA2015BR (old style) 250X. that 58gr load came from barnes very first manual back in the early 90s. Work up from 55gr or so. I only used R15 with the heavier 250 Nosler (never killed with it) and 310 Woodleigh (killed a nice Eurasian sow with that, just for grins! :)) I got great speeds with TAX in the little 338 Federal, but never tried it in the Whelen. I also hear good thing about the CFE223 with the lighter bullets. I used a magnum primer with the R15 loads and my ES was around 3-6, bugholes. Good luck to you.

Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #12923320 06/15/18
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Of the powders you have i have used IMR-3031 and RL-15.

I like 3031 the best with 200 grain any bullet.
For the 250 grain and heavier i will have to do some more testing because i have not shot many because most critters out to 300 yards can't stand the 200 grain.

Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #12923324 06/15/18
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IMR-3031 (57.5 gr) gave me 2,840 with the 200 gr TTSX in a 22" bbl. It's a few grains over book max. Tried TAC, but couldn't get close to book speeds even after working up several grains higher. Varget, RL15 and CFE223 are too slow in burning rate for the 200 gr bullets, IMO - these are best for 250 grainers.

Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #12923901 06/15/18
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Re-15 or Re-12, if you have it


Murphy was a grunt.
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Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #12924293 06/15/18
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Thank you for the information, gentlemen. Who else wants to share experience?


I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #12924666 06/16/18
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Try 8208

Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #12924702 06/16/18
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Speer recently published new data, using many new powders. You can access it online. They are showing some fast loads.
I have been trialing power pro 2000 mr under 250 gr bullets, based upon their data, and am enjoying a spectacular combination of accuracy and velocity. It also seems to be remarkably clean burning.
You might find something of interest there.
Autofive's recommendation is worth consideration, but I have only used it with 250's. 8208 is interesting stuff.


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It's been 50 since a visitor last paused at your tombstone.....
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Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #12924912 06/16/18
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Try TAC


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I prefer classic.
Sgt USMC - a while ago
Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #12924986 06/16/18
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It's always interesting to see what QuickLOAD predicts. Thought I'd share it.


Code
Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54425
Useable Case Capaci: 61.701 grain H2O = 4.006 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 115 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

50 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 70%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17                 113.2     67.5     4.37    2974    98.2    60000    8450   1.040  
Vihtavuori N550                    115.0     66.8     4.33    2925    96.2    59152    8178   1.059  
Hodgdon CFE223                     101.5     64.3     4.17    2925    98.3    60000    7867   1.051   
IMR 3031                           108.5     57.7     3.74    2920   100.0    60000    7164   1.056  
IMR 4895                           107.1     60.9     3.95    2918    98.1    60000    7878   1.063   
Ramshot Big Game                   107.4     65.1     4.22    2916    97.7    60000    7824   1.052  
Hodgdon H414                       112.2     67.5     4.37    2914    93.0    60000    8114   1.052  
Winchester 760                     112.2     67.5     4.37    2914    93.0    60000    8114   1.052  
Winchester 748                      99.6     60.9     3.95    2913    99.5    60000    7528   1.055  
Hodgdon BL-C2                      102.1     63.4     4.11    2911    98.9    60000    7756   1.062  
Norma 203 old                      110.4     63.5     4.11    2909    98.8    60000    7742   1.069  
Norma 203B                         108.4     61.7     4.00    2904    98.0    60000    7772   1.064  
Accurate 4064                      111.1     61.8     4.01    2904   100.0    60000    7376   1.087  
Alliant Reloder-15                 107.8     61.3     3.97    2901    97.5    60000    7778   1.065  
Accurate 2495                      104.8     58.3     3.78    2892   100.0    60000    7064   1.092  
Lovex D073.6                       105.0     61.5     3.99    2892    99.8    60000    7340   1.072  
Accurate 2520                      102.6     61.5     3.99    2892    99.8    60000    7340   1.072  
Hodgdon H4895                      103.8     59.1     3.83    2889    98.5    60000    7611   1.068  
Alliant AR-Comp                    103.3     56.8     3.68    2881   100.0    60000    6598   1.059  
Hodgdon H380                       108.8     63.2     4.10    2876    96.0    60000    7717   1.069  
IMR 4320                           109.3     61.2     3.96    2873    97.7    60000    7468   1.055  
Hodgdon H335                        94.5     58.6     3.80    2867   100.0    60000    7147   1.066  
Vihtavuori N540                    107.1     61.6     3.99    2867    99.9    60000    7265   1.068  
Norma 202                          104.8     58.7     3.80    2866   100.0    60000    7138   1.071  
Lovex S062                         108.8     60.2     3.90    2866    99.0    60000    7357   1.075  
Vihtavuori N530                     99.9     57.1     3.70    2860    99.0    60000    7305   1.068  
Hodgdon H322                       100.1     55.3     3.58    2860   100.0    60000    6909   1.063  
Norma 201                          105.2     58.5     3.79    2851    99.0    60000    7302   1.082  
Vihtavuori N135                    114.8     59.2     3.83    2851   100.0    60000    6677   1.071  
IMR 8208 XBR                       102.1     58.1     3.76    2850    98.9    60000    7221   1.069  
Hodgdon VARGET                     109.7     60.4     3.91    2848    97.2    60000    7405   1.064  
Lovex D073.5                        97.9     59.7     3.87    2845    99.5    60000    7106   1.085  
Accurate 2460                       97.6     59.7     3.87    2845    99.5    60000    7106   1.085  
IMR 4064                           110.7     59.5     3.85    2843    97.4    60000    7288   1.068  
Vihtavuori N140                    107.0     59.7     3.87    2839   100.0    60000    6845   1.070  
Ramshot TAC                        101.1     62.0     4.02    2833    95.2    60000    7433   1.073  
Lovex S065                         115.0     64.0     4.15    2831    94.7    59316    7487   1.082  
Accurate 4350                      115.0     65.4     4.24    2831    95.0    52263    7906   1.116  
Lovex D073.4                        96.0     58.5     3.79    2830    99.4    60000    6979   1.082  
Norma URP                          115.0     64.7     4.19    2828    94.9    53185    7871   1.105  
Accurate 2230                       96.9     59.7     3.87    2828    98.5    60000    7080   1.079  
Alliant Reloder-12                  99.7     57.8     3.75    2826   100.0    60000    6730   1.071  
Ramshot X-Terminator                98.7     59.9     3.88    2824    97.8    60000    7187   1.075  
Norma 204                          115.0     67.5     4.38    2821    89.0    58307    7680   1.072  
Alliant Reloder-10x                 97.5     52.3     3.39    2820   100.0    60000    6473   1.082  
IMR 4451 Enduron                   111.5     62.7     4.06    2818    92.8    60000    7396   1.069  
Ramshot Hunter                     115.0     67.5     4.38    2818    92.3    53700    7938   1.103   
IMR 4007 SSC                       109.6     63.2     4.10    2813    92.1    60000    7395   1.078  
Accurate 2015                      100.3     54.6     3.54    2808   100.0    60000    6413   1.088  
Hodgdon Benchmark                  100.6     56.3     3.65    2805    99.3    60000    6864   1.076  
Accurate 2200                       91.9     53.1     3.44    2803    99.8    60000    6713   1.074  
Lovex S070                         115.0     64.7     4.19    2800    92.5    56069    7556   1.104


Originally Posted by gonehuntin
Give a communist a helicopter ride, he flies for an afternoon. Throw a communist out of a helicopter and he flies for the rest of his life.....



IC-B

Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: RiverRider] #12925016 06/16/18
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HuntnShoot Offline OP
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Originally Posted by RiverRider
It's always interesting to see what QuickLOAD predicts. Thought I'd share it.


Code
Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54425
Useable Case Capaci: 61.701 grain H2O = 4.006 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 115 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

50 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 70%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17                 113.2     67.5     4.37    2974    98.2    60000    8450   1.040  
Vihtavuori N550                    115.0     66.8     4.33    2925    96.2    59152    8178   1.059  
Hodgdon CFE223                     101.5     64.3     4.17    2925    98.3    60000    7867   1.051   
IMR 3031                           108.5     57.7     3.74    2920   100.0    60000    7164   1.056  
IMR 4895                           107.1     60.9     3.95    2918    98.1    60000    7878   1.063   
Ramshot Big Game                   107.4     65.1     4.22    2916    97.7    60000    7824   1.052  
Hodgdon H414                       112.2     67.5     4.37    2914    93.0    60000    8114   1.052  
Winchester 760                     112.2     67.5     4.37    2914    93.0    60000    8114   1.052  
Winchester 748                      99.6     60.9     3.95    2913    99.5    60000    7528   1.055  
Hodgdon BL-C2                      102.1     63.4     4.11    2911    98.9    60000    7756   1.062  
Norma 203 old                      110.4     63.5     4.11    2909    98.8    60000    7742   1.069  
Norma 203B                         108.4     61.7     4.00    2904    98.0    60000    7772   1.064  
Accurate 4064                      111.1     61.8     4.01    2904   100.0    60000    7376   1.087  
Alliant Reloder-15                 107.8     61.3     3.97    2901    97.5    60000    7778   1.065  
Accurate 2495                      104.8     58.3     3.78    2892   100.0    60000    7064   1.092  
Lovex D073.6                       105.0     61.5     3.99    2892    99.8    60000    7340   1.072  
Accurate 2520                      102.6     61.5     3.99    2892    99.8    60000    7340   1.072  
Hodgdon H4895                      103.8     59.1     3.83    2889    98.5    60000    7611   1.068  
Alliant AR-Comp                    103.3     56.8     3.68    2881   100.0    60000    6598   1.059  
Hodgdon H380                       108.8     63.2     4.10    2876    96.0    60000    7717   1.069  
IMR 4320                           109.3     61.2     3.96    2873    97.7    60000    7468   1.055  
Hodgdon H335                        94.5     58.6     3.80    2867   100.0    60000    7147   1.066  
Vihtavuori N540                    107.1     61.6     3.99    2867    99.9    60000    7265   1.068  
Norma 202                          104.8     58.7     3.80    2866   100.0    60000    7138   1.071  
Lovex S062                         108.8     60.2     3.90    2866    99.0    60000    7357   1.075  
Vihtavuori N530                     99.9     57.1     3.70    2860    99.0    60000    7305   1.068  
Hodgdon H322                       100.1     55.3     3.58    2860   100.0    60000    6909   1.063  
Norma 201                          105.2     58.5     3.79    2851    99.0    60000    7302   1.082  
Vihtavuori N135                    114.8     59.2     3.83    2851   100.0    60000    6677   1.071  
IMR 8208 XBR                       102.1     58.1     3.76    2850    98.9    60000    7221   1.069  
Hodgdon VARGET                     109.7     60.4     3.91    2848    97.2    60000    7405   1.064  
Lovex D073.5                        97.9     59.7     3.87    2845    99.5    60000    7106   1.085  
Accurate 2460                       97.6     59.7     3.87    2845    99.5    60000    7106   1.085  
IMR 4064                           110.7     59.5     3.85    2843    97.4    60000    7288   1.068  
Vihtavuori N140                    107.0     59.7     3.87    2839   100.0    60000    6845   1.070  
Ramshot TAC                        101.1     62.0     4.02    2833    95.2    60000    7433   1.073  
Lovex S065                         115.0     64.0     4.15    2831    94.7    59316    7487   1.082  
Accurate 4350                      115.0     65.4     4.24    2831    95.0    52263    7906   1.116  
Lovex D073.4                        96.0     58.5     3.79    2830    99.4    60000    6979   1.082  
Norma URP                          115.0     64.7     4.19    2828    94.9    53185    7871   1.105  
Accurate 2230                       96.9     59.7     3.87    2828    98.5    60000    7080   1.079  
Alliant Reloder-12                  99.7     57.8     3.75    2826   100.0    60000    6730   1.071  
Ramshot X-Terminator                98.7     59.9     3.88    2824    97.8    60000    7187   1.075  
Norma 204                          115.0     67.5     4.38    2821    89.0    58307    7680   1.072  
Alliant Reloder-10x                 97.5     52.3     3.39    2820   100.0    60000    6473   1.082  
IMR 4451 Enduron                   111.5     62.7     4.06    2818    92.8    60000    7396   1.069  
Ramshot Hunter                     115.0     67.5     4.38    2818    92.3    53700    7938   1.103   
IMR 4007 SSC                       109.6     63.2     4.10    2813    92.1    60000    7395   1.078  
Accurate 2015                      100.3     54.6     3.54    2808   100.0    60000    6413   1.088  
Hodgdon Benchmark                  100.6     56.3     3.65    2805    99.3    60000    6864   1.076  
Accurate 2200                       91.9     53.1     3.44    2803    99.8    60000    6713   1.074  
Lovex S070                         115.0     64.7     4.19    2800    92.5    56069    7556   1.104


Thanks, RiverRider! I'm always interested in QL's predictions anymore, and very interested here. I should quit putting it off and buy the software. A decent chronograph is a bit higher on today's priority list though.

I've been drawn to CFE, because I really like that powder, and JB seems to like TAC with the lightweights in the Whelen. Big Game also looks promising. I have an unopened lb of that sitting around.


I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #12938393 06/21/18
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RinB Offline
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Check the new Speer data. New powders really give big gains in the Whelen.

https://www.speer-ammo.com/en/reloading/rifle

Last edited by RinB; 06/21/18.


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Borrowed from Brad
Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: RinB] #15567209 12/25/20
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Winchester 748 has been excellent in my 338-06 and 35 Whelen Ai with 200- 225 gr bullets. I've never experienced the temp stabilty issue I hear about as being a problem at 70 deg F or less.

Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #15567297 12/25/20
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Not apples to apples, but my 358 Norma shines with IMR 4320 - all weights


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Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: RinB] #15567342 12/25/20
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Originally Posted by RinB
Check the new Speer data. New powders really give big gains in the Whelen.

https://www.speer-ammo.com/en/reloading/rifle



Power Pro Varmit



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #15567991 12/25/20
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Elvis Online Content
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H4895.

Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #15568054 12/25/20
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H-4895, Norma brass, Win LR gave me the following from two 24” rifles and were w/in 10 fps pf each other:
55.0...2725...32 fps extreme spread
56.0...2790...11 fps es
57.0...2825...16 fps es
That’s where I stopped. Hodgdon’s data showed 2689 fps with 57.0 grs. as their max.

I found a little better accuracy with the 225 A/bond.


NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: jwp475] #15569324 12/25/20
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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by RinB
Check the new Speer data. New powders really give big gains in the Whelen.

https://www.speer-ammo.com/en/reloading/rifle



Power Pro Varmit

2.5 year old thread revived, but, that said..."What he said."
I did a fair bit of work with PP Varmint with the 200 TTSX in the Whelen. 2950 + FPS is achievable.
If I did that right the portion of this research on another forum starts
HERE

Blessings,
Rex

Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #15569432 12/25/20
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+1 for IMR 3031, I found a load for 200gr. bullets in Ken Waters Pet loads using 3031. It has proven to be the most accurate load I've ever used in my .35 Whelen and has performed well on whitetails. I use Hornady Inter-lok 200gr. RN bullets and one that I recovered from a whitetail after traversing the chest cavity on a raking shot was perfectly mushroomed and retained 66% of its original weight. With 225gr. Sierra Game Kings my powder of choice is IMR 4064 and I tried Varget and RL-15 before choosing 4064.

Last edited by gunswizard; 12/26/20.
Re: Which Powder in 35 Whelen for top speed with 200 AB? [Re: HuntnShoot] #15569805 12/26/20
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Seafire Offline
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proven on the chart posted by Andrew/ Riverrider...

my three picks, in no particular order...

3031, W 748, H 380....

I run H 380 the most for top velocity ( I exceed load data with no issues)...
388/06 not 35 Whelen... but the Whelen is no different than the 338/06...




"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez


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