Ran across this Antique German Double Barrel shotgun and wanted to see if anyone could assist with some insight on specifics (confirm make, date range of manufacture, basic info, possible value). Given it’s got little marking(s), I’m unable to gather much information. I’m also a rookie when it comes to antique foreign shotguns. Any help appreciated. I suspect it’s possibly rare given the previous owner but speculating at best. Pictures aren’t great due to lighting. Ideas on value or information? Thanks in advance guys!


Clint

More pictures. Thanks to anyone who can assist!

Nice robust gun if the gun functions properly 500 range jmho

Thanks! It seems solid. Any detailed info would help. The previous owner (now deceased) was a VP for Remington at one time apparently over the Custom Shop.

Probably a bring home gun from W2.Made approx 1920s.

Pop the forearm off and remove the barrels. Most German guns from the 1900's will have a lot of information stamped on the water table (flats below the chambers). This should include the date of manufacture in the MM/YY format as well as proof house stamps. You can find a translation of proof house stamps by searching on line. They often include the bore dia in mm, chamber length and some times the choke constrictions. Post some pictures of that area and you can probably get some more help. Good luck.

Proof marks, etc. from the water table might give some clues.

What makes you say it’s German?

*Looks like we were typing at the same time FYD….

Thanks for the excellent guidance guys! I’ll look for the proof marks. Wasn’t aware to look for them. I was told it was German but thats speculation based on what i was told. thanks a ton!!

Definitely, check chamber length .

Since the name on the barrels is in English, and is a "copy" of a famous English gunmaker (Manton), I suspect you have a gun made in Belgium for export to the US. They were sold in hardware stores by the thousands, fairly inexpensively, to people who couldn't afford Ithaca or Fox guns. With the lever so far to the right, I suspect it's pretty loose. I wouldn't shoot it without an OK from a gunsmith who works on doubles.

You might want to take a good picture of the water table and barrel flats and post it on the double gun BBS. There are some real experts on old doubles there.

^^^^

It looks like a Belgian ‘guild gun’ to me. Many were made for various known British and other makers, as their production level SxS guns. Most were very good guns, just not a ‘best’ gun.

This. Not to be a downer, but that’s what it is. Inherited the same one in 10ga (in a pieces, put back together). It’s still a neat little piece of history. These were made with all manner of stampings to “sound like” something “fancy”. No offense intended, do realize how this sounds, but if lay a “real” english, belgian or german, etc next to it, you’ll suddenly see what’s what. Lastly, like Hogeye said, these were of marginal steels, sorry. Personally wouldn’t shoot it, but if you desire, certainly needs a once over by a knowledgeable shotgun smith, not just corner joe blow. Mines hanging in the little cabin as a family memento of the hard scrabble homestead farm years.

If the owner was James Brian Ackley, could be darn near anything. I would second the idea of the double gun BBS.

Thanks so much guys; really helped me out and I’m appreciative. The gun formerly belonged to a James Brian Ackley; formerly a VP at Remington in the 1980s. He recently passed away and I was offered the shotgun in a sale (haven’t purchased it as of yet) but had little detail of its history and value. He had a big collection of specialty rifles and only 3 shotguns remain. This is helpful. Thanks guys!

I wouldn’t be too quick to write it off. There are low pressure loads available that might make you feel better about shooting it. For a reasonable price you could have a very cool gun with some interesting history to shoot doves or informal clays with. It certainly doesn’t look worn out or abused. Looks like a nice gun from here.

I’ve owned several - and still have a couple- Belgian guild guns. They’re perfectly serviceable guns that are on par with older American field models. There were some cheap clunkers made but they’re pretty obvious if you know anything about double guns.

Table Marks pictures.

Second Shotgun.

More of the 2nd.

Lever to the right today means little wear. To the LEFT means worn out.

Do you know something we don't?

This is getting more interesting. Not sure where the second gun came from but the proof marks on the first one are from the Birmingham proof house and were used during the 1925 - 1954 time frame and it is Nitro proofed for 1 1/8 shells so it is very shootable steel barreled shotgun of likely English manufacture....so, why did you think it was German? The second gun set of proof marks are confusing as to how did this one enter the conversation? It is clearly damascus and should be shot only with black powder or other low pressure loads and checked out by an expert gunsmith first. I would follow the suggestion of having an expert value the guns after a physical inspection.

Thanks! There are a total of 3 shotguns previously owned by Mr. Ackley. I was told at least one may be German but that was speculation. I’m a bolt action rifle lover and know nothing about these older shotguns hence the questions. I was just curious given the deceased owners history with Remington. Thanks again guys!

A similar shotgun with the same marks:

https://www.shotgunforums.com/threads/shotgun-identification-please-make-model-and-year.2196/